**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[wbrejnia]

Amiga Forever is the only way to have modern copies of legal workbench...

Else you can buy original disks from privates on internet at very cheap price, even defective ones, and use a functioning copy of pirated disks...

It will work and none will hassle you if you own any real original disks then...

If someone asks you, then you can candidly affirm pirated copies are legit copies of your defective original disks before they broke.

 So it sound like Amiga Forever covers everything for me.
 
 But one last question.  I have original WB1.1, WB1.2 diskettes. (2 copies of each)  Does that mean I would be qualified for upgrades to WB1.3 etc and and licensed?  Probably not.  Also nothing would cover me to OS2.x,OS3.x anyway.

[wbrejnia]

FOUND a CRT Monitor under Basements Stairs (16" IBM 6627)

Yes, I just proved I am a junk collector.

Deep Under the basement stairs, behind where we store Suitcases I found one CRT Monitor I never threw out.

Model is IBM 6627 16" CRT (DP85 chassis)   (3"  Bigger Screen Size than Amiga)
I can't find any specs on it with GOOGLE.  Found photos, but no specs.

It powers up.   No fancy menu, since OLD 2002 Model.

Don't know it it will sync 15.7Khz. (Going to make a cable to try)



It's not better than Amiga Monitor (size is bigger), but may be safer for Radiation (Wife will let me use it).

Worth a try, to if it saves stress/use on the Amiga Monitor.

[wbrejnia]

** DANGER **  WARNING **  HOOKING UP THINGS to Amiga (RGB) Video Output **

One has to be careful not to hook up things like the GBS converter to Amiga.

Look at this article http://www.retro-commodore.eu/2014/03/11/cheap-rgb-to-vga-converter-amiga/

They guys started off with a Review of GBS then edited it at the end saying it's Dangerous to use on Amiga. (At least the way I read it).

The Amiga Spec is 100ma Max Drawn from Amiga Video Output (RGB).

The GBS can draw too much and Fry your amiga Video-Output Port.  Or worse FRY your Amiga.

DIRECT to a CRT monitor with a Cable Adapter should be safe (if connected properly).
Some folks directly connect Sync Digital pins.  (Can be dangerous like the GBS)
Better to buffer TTL signals like below


the diagram above was just a google search "Amiga RGB to VGA"
(not confirmed if works *** AND IF ABOVE IS SAFE? *** (for direct connect (Amiga->CRT) rbg-signal-line voltages) )
[ Note: the 74LS08N chip is an AND chip so that is why INPUT pins(1-2) (4-5) are tied together ]

I best wait for my Proper SCART converter. (Which I assume has resistors for voltage conversion on RGB [if needed] )  
Both (Cable-Converter[AmigaKit] and SCART-converter[NewEgg] ) ordered and on the way.

I have way too much (time,effort, and cost) invested into this Amiga Project to take chances on Saving a few $ for a bad-hack and Ending my Project in Catastrophe .
That would depress me too much.

[wbrejnia]

IBM CRT Monitor on 486 (Nice, TOO BIG, and 15Khz???)

I hooked up the IBM CRT monitor to the 486.

Really nice CRISP Screen Image. (Even nicer the the old LCD monitor).

I hit the INFO button.
Appears to only support 30-60Khz (NOT 15.7khz).
But this may be showing a Range for the 486 Signals going in.



I found the Spec for the G78 MOnitor above https://www.cnet.com/products/ibm-g78-crt-monitor-17-series/specs/

Only talks about Max Sync Frequency (V-160Khz/H-85 Khz).  So no idea if will go as low as 15.7Khz.

[wbrejnia]

So there was an official AMIGA PRODUCT to Hook up AMIGA(RGB) to VGA(CRT - 15.7Khz) monitors

http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=733

Looks simple. TTL buffered like shown above. (Safer).  I see a capacitor, so similar to some SCART cables I've seen.

From all my searching I see Guys have taken chances to hookup directly and even un-buffer TTL digital signal.

Just too risky for me.
I must be patient and wait for my SCART solution.

[wbrejnia]

The horror.... :rtfm:
To me, an A2000 without at least one hard drive to read and write at good speed and some fast RAM is a nightmare... me, I just hack up a few Amiga mobos into a mobile rig... to each their own way. You do what's fun for you.

Pat,

You are hard to keep Happy.  (I do appreciate you pushing for the best!!)

I've always appreciated you putting me on the ISA/IDE Adapter.  I do love the 8088 PC on SD.  Great to demo RLL vs SD.  I'll eventually run some spec comparisons. (even throw in the CF adapter to compare).

It's all part of this Amiga project/demo.  (It's all actually for me.  Who in the World will care about my Amiga in this modern world).

Now time to reveal something I've been kind of keeping a secret for a couple of weeks.  

During my lowest moments of this re-build, not too long ago. When RLL drive/JANUS, etc was keeping my up nights, affecting my health.  I felt I would never solve the RLL/WD controller thing.

I was losing hope, and motivation to continue this whole thing.

So I needed a PLAN B. (to keep me going)

I have been looking since you originally suggested a SCSI controller on the Amiga side.  

During that low point, I made a decision on going ahead with Plan B.

This is Plan B.



500MB SCSI disk, and The BONUS is 8 Mb of RAM included.

It's actually PLAN A to not get unhealthy over a unnecessary struggle.

A good investment for my health, and increases the value of the Amiga.

Should be able to do some more fun stuff beyond a Gotek Floppy booting system.

[wbrejnia]

isn't the scan doubler part is what's important! The vga monitor driver in 3.1 still needed hardware to connect, right?
 
On using vga (31mhz) with amiga (15mhz) from the 23 pin connector...

there were/are several adaptors, the most common being the commmodore 390682-01

But there was/is hardware that actually take the 15mhz and convert it to true vga.

Scan doublers!

I am just learning and will learn more as I get the parts to play.  (However are you saying I won't be able to go OS3.1 without a change in HW on my A2000.  Sorry i Know nothing. OR is the related to a VGA driver/library in OS3.x).

1) My assumption at this point is that my IBM CRT monitor will be able to handle the Amiga 15mhz. (If not it goes back under staircase)

2)  My assumption is that RGB/SCART/HDMI-Converter solution I will try is going to take the 15hz and upscale it to the frequency for HDMI LCD Monitor will handle.

In both cases I am expecting that the resolution of the Amiga Pixel wise will remain the same. (ie I assume the My Original Amiga 2000 MB Graphics Chip can't go beyond what I see on my Amiga Monitor... Correct?)

Which ever looks best (Many factors: Color, Clarity, Original Representation)  is what I'll leave in place.  
Footprint of Monitor will be another consideration.

--> I haven't even gone beyond any OS beyond WB1.2,  Glanced at WB1.3.

--> Going into OS2.x, O3.x will be totally new.  Never touch it, never seen it on my A2000.

All part of this journey (upward thru Retro Amiga Timeline)

[wbrejnia]

Imho Indivision is the best route. Pop it in, use almost any modern-ish (VGA-style) monitor, OS-independent. They usually run around $90-$95 new.

I agree that the indivision does appear the most promising from the 3 option's I'm considering.

But I haven't figured out from reading exactly how Indivision works.

Is is purely a piggy back on the Amiga Video chip, (transparent) such that  I can still use my Amiga Monitor from the Amiga Video Port at the back of the A2000?  (correct?)

That is important to me. (to still have the Amiga Monitor option for True Retro display).

Does Indivision give me an option to get more resolution for Desktop GUI (WB1.3, OS3)?

At the point I've ordered the SCART box and it's a local purchase from NewEgg (Returnable), so I'll give it a try.   It does work with HDMI monitors.

Also I am a bit hesitant on having to solder the Capacitor over.  Touching/modding the Motherboard is kind of last resort for me. (Not that I'm afraid of soldering, but Amiga is just plain old OLD and less touch is less risk).

[wbrejnia]

Thanks all both posts above.

I have a clear direction, it will be SCART for me.

Here is a good article for SCART https://www.area536.com/projects/amiga/use-your-amiga-with-a-modern-flat-screen/
and the cable http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/amiga_hacks/Amiga_SCART/amiga_scart.html

I don't want to swap out my Amiga Motherboard.

I have more memory and will see what I can do down the road with OS upgrades.  Right now WB1.3 will be my next big jump up.

Some Worth While (Really needed) enhancements is the max I'm willing to go.
Got plenty to figure out with what I have.

Having a LCD-HDMI flat screen (Via SCART) should make me happy with deskspace.

ALSO I'm glad I didn't peruse and CRT RGB-VGA Converter (Direct connect)
Very dangerous to hook up Un-Buffered signals between CRT and Amiga.
Both the Digital and especially the Analog RGB.
I'm sure you've seen on occasion a spark when hooking up CRT via cable.
That spark is high voltage, so could fry Amiga Video Port. (Have proof this has happened to others)
A properly designed cable would have capacitors and resistor, but even then there is risk on large spike....

I've been lucky since I've probably disconnected my CRT Amiga Monitor about 30-40 times during this rebuild.  
(Even if I kept them power off and grounded during hook up)
NO MORE!!

If I every decide on using that NICE IBM CRT monitor I have is will be with a GBS8200 (more reading has proven them safe buffer).  Cheap too!!

[wbrejnia]

Correct.  It piggybacks inside the Denise socket (and your original or ECS Denise plugs in on top of that).  It allows you to display on a modern monitor (through it's HD15 "VGA" port) and a classic monitor (through your Amiga's native 23-pin output) simultaneously.

Attached is a photo of me doing just that.  



Yes.  With the latest firmware (1.10) it allows you to use SuperPlus, HighGFX, and HD720 screenmodes.  Which on a classic Amiga allow you to display 800x600x16 colors, 1024x768x4 colors, and 1280x720x4 colors screenmodes, respectively.  (Note that you will need at least OS 2+ and preferably 3+ to use these screenmodes.  Amiga's with AGA chipset can use these screenmodes up to 256 colors, but ECS limits to 16 colors or 4 colors.)

I'd forgotten that you're doing all this on a Rev. 4 motherboard.  Again just IMHO, I'd look for a Rev. 6+ board as a drop-in replacement.  It's going to provide a lot of fixes over the older model.  See list at bottom of this link:

http://amiga.resource.cx/mod/a2000.html

Obviously this all depends on your budget, etc.

Nice display you have there with the Indivision ECS.

Your PHOTOs really shows it off.  
The Amikit screen shots are pathetic if this product is that good.  http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=82&products_id=918
(Why would they show those SCREENSHOTS as examples.  It's what turned me off)

Tempting.

Are you saying I need A MOBO replacement to enjoy the quality you show?
Or is the MOBO upgrade for something else?

I'll have 8MB of extra Ram (possibly only 6mb - From what I read about Bridgeboard address Space Conflict). [with the GVP Impact A2000-HC+8 Series II card I just got]

The Indivision solution is not much more than the SCART converter which I still can return.

(All assuming I don't need to upgrade my Rev4 Motherboard).

[wbrejnia]

What about a VA2000 Card (vs Indivision ECS)

http://shop.mntmn.com/product/mnt-va2000-amiga-graphics-card-zorro-ii-iii-batch-2-preorder

MORE $, longer wait... but could be better overall in the long run...

HOWEVER when reading the spec :

-> (RTG requires 68020)
-> (Uses 4MB of Zorro II)
---> Probably complicated to setup across all AmigaOS's (WB1.2,W1.3, OS2x,3x etc. I wan't to be able to demo all possible)

so again I'm stuck with my basic (A2000 Rev4)!!

I think Indivision ECS is my best bet. (since even with SCART and HDMI aspect ratio of HDMI TV-Type monitors isn't as good as a VGA).

[wbrejnia]

AFAIK no RTG software works under 1.2/1.3.  Maybe a few esoteric custom, home-brewed solutions.  Either way you're setting yourself up for a much greater challenge, trying to use RTG under 1.2/1.3.  Not to dissuade you, good luck if you try!  [/QUOTE]
I guess my question is do I need RTG to display WB 1.2/1.3 in native display format.  I just want to be able to run it.  Also run Old Games from Floppy/Gotek.

[wbrejnia]

An LCD DISPLAY Solution (RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY EYES)  Literally

So before making any decisions (ie to go Indivision or GBS-8200) I found this list of LCD monitors that support 15.7kHz.

http://15khz.wikidot.com/

I went thru all the old LCD's, Kids old monitors, and no matches.

Then I noticed the LABEL on the bottom of my Main Workstation Screen (that I'm typing on now) "HP L2335".  IT is on the Supported LIST.


I found the manual on the WEB and sure enough, this Monitor that I got ages ago is pretty Advanced (since it has all kinds of inputs: Analog(Dsub), Digital(DVI), Composite, Component, S-Video, etc).

If it can clock S-Video/Composite, it appears the Circuitry can clock VGA down to 15.7khz.

Then I checked out the ON SCREEN menu and it has options for SYNC/Phase Fine tuning.

So I think it will work for a DIRECT (AMIGA-RGB -> VGA Input).

I just need to make a simple cable with (R,G,B and HORZ/VERT(sync),GND).

However, I just checked the inputs in the back of monitor.



Possibly even Easier (than VGA connector) since it actually has (R, G, B ) separate inputs too!!

-> No risk on Overload/High Voltages like a CRT.

Nice for a short term trial, but not a permanent solution since the aspect ratio is not ideal. (And I need this monitor for other things).

I contacted AmigaKit and they didn't ship my SCART cable (so I switched the order to Indivision)

** I just ran a simple 15ft cable [COMPOSITE RCA-JACK from AMiga 2000 Composite (B&W) output]  to the [ HP Monitor Composite-IN]  **



If  that works, I'm pretty sure RGB will work.

[wbrejnia]

NEXT CHALLENGE (A DB23 Connector for R G B signals to HP-LCD-Monitor Inputs)

Local Electronic Surplus store doesn't have DB23 connectors.  Yes they are available on Ebay but pricey (Rather spend the budget on the Indivision).

So I can hack a DB25 into a DB23 (dremil).

Or I noticed there is a spare DB23 at the back of my 1010 Floppy Drive (but why break something of value).

[wbrejnia]

RGB + SYNC Cable

So for now I have to be happy with a Temp Solution (Black and White) on my HP Monitor. (Till the Indivision ECS arrives)

Seems that the ( [R] [G] and [Sync] ) can be done in many ways (Combine and Separate Syncs in different ways too).

** BIT COMPLICATED to understand AMIGA-DB23/Composite-outputs [Looks like all signals are all Separate-DB23) vs HP-RGB-Inputs [unknown how to combine to meet spec] )

Even If I were to succeed with a Hack DB23 Connector/Wiring to RCA jacks.
It would be messy.

Black and white is good enough to have a peek at Amiga Progress while I start copying all my Floppy Games to GOTEK/SD.
The HP Monitor Allows me to See (Composite B&W) Amiga in Picture-In-Picture Window


HERE IS A GREAT VIDEO that describes the RGB and Sync Signalling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAlrdCBjUAQ

[wbrejnia]

Amiga DB23 Video Output (Limitations) * Danger to Possibly Damage Amiga *

I finally found a good specification on what I saw reference to in researching this topic.
There are some specific limitations on the DB23 Video Port PINS of the Amiga.
Hooking up Drivers, or  Mis-Wiring/Shorting,  could cause irreparable damage.

This diagram is from the link below shows many of the Amiga Ports Pinouts.
http://www.retrocomputacion.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?31076



So even though a connection might work for a short period of time.  Long term connections could eventually burn out the Amiga Port PIN.

I would even check connections to devices like the GBS8100 Converter board, with a Multi-Meter to check current draw (if connecting any of the current limited pins). ** NEVER DRAW 5V or 12Volt power off Amiga Port **

Also last but not least be Extra Cautious when connecting CRT (high Voltage) monitors.