**Need Setup HELP** with Classic Amiga 2000 HARD DISK (Bridgeboard)

[wbrejnia]

I'll stick to building Fish Tank Dosing Pumps with Aurdino board.

I'm having enough fun with this Amiga Rebuild.

I do have some good news. THE WD Controller Card is Good.

Before embarking on the Workbench Rebuild, wanted to make sure the journey wasn't a dead end. (Still could be with the Hard Drive).

I Ran the Debug Format Tool on The Controller Card. See below, this proves we have a working card. (I DISCONNECTED THE CABLES from the HD).

I haven't gone further, and I wouldn't even know what to answer for the FIRST (Y/N) Question shown.
 
 ((( When it SAYs  [Current DRIVE is C: ] [Current INTERLEAVE is 4] , and the Drive is not hooked up, IS THIS default, OR Last Config Value stored in EEPROM ))



( I will go thru all the questions with defaults, just to post them. With HD not connected)

Now I did read a paper that this particular kind of BIOS tool on WD Controller can actual re-format, but not wipe out a drive by writing ZERO's like a Low Level Format. The Format actually refreshes the drive for longer life (like a READ, and WRITE BACK).

I'm not going to take a chance on doing any format YET. That will be at the very end, if I want to rebuild a new setup. (ie. I give up on getting my schoolwork).

TIME TO PULL OUT THE BRIDGEBOARD MANUAL and follow the steps....

[wbrejnia]

I found the installation guide for WD1002A-27X Controller Card.

http://www.os2site.com/dec/hard/harddisk/wd/a2272

THERE IS NO MENTION OF DRIVERS (Just DEBUG, FDISK and FORMAT)

Might that be possible?
 
 And Better yet the step by step and explanation for the WD BIOS Format Tool (different model but same kind of info)
 
 http://ftp://ftp.necam.com/Versa/Old.Portables/Utilities/INSTHD.TXT

[wbrejnia]

Spend time with them too Wally. You've done most of the work, you know it's all viable. Personal relations really are more important than technology.

If you are going to settle around doing things on the Bridgeboard and Amiga, take your time. Get a SCSI drive going on it. Make it easy for yourself when you do get drive access, to copy all the data off.

Like I said, you only get one guaranteed shot. You will PROBABLY get more than one chance, but there is no sense in rushing it too quick.

You got to remember, the world is different now. People can get ROMs burned over the internet, if they just want a couple. OK, some places do want their own ROM programmers, but there isn't a big market for them. Not for the old ones. There is still quite a few old ones around that work.

I dedicate too much time to my family. This Computer/Builds and fish tanks is my break. I don't watch TV (Zero), just a good movie the odd time, and reading.

I work from home last 15 years (IT Telco 31 years), while wife a teacher goes to work.
Gives me more time than she has with her driving, so I'm Super Dad, who drives them to school and picks up, makes meals, cleans house on while on Conf. Calls. Drives 14-20 times a week for kids Piano, Karate, Swim, Soccer, Gymnatics, baseball, etc. Tutors 3 kids. etc.. . So I'm good to everyone. They rely too much on me, and I need breaks.

Yes, I am taking it slower on this build, but it' started 2 years ago, and was put on shelf twice. Better to dig in and get it done and over with, then more time for other things. Plus spreading it out too long, Cold Storage Sets in (with Legacy Stuff). At least this time, I'm documenting everything details, in this forum and that helps if I park things so I know where I've left off (and all the notes, Photo's, etc).

Hey, too bad I don't have that University Burner I built. Could have started a Internet ROM burning business to fund my fish tank food. ( Just Kidding ).

You know in some ways, this build wherever it goes is kind of better than seeing what's on that drive. I'm reliving a Amiga Build that I did years ago (brings back memories). That is satisfying enough, and if I format the drive, and build a new system with all things working (a dual boot system on HD). That would feel good enough to close this chapter in my life. (To move on to the 5 other projects planned, started, parked)

[wbrejnia]

On the Topic of that MC68705 based ROM burner in the photos (Thesis Project Possibly on Hard Drive).

When I graduated from University the Telco Hired me on the spot when I showed off my skills. Then my first project was I built another MC68706 unit. It interfaced in between the parallel port going to the printer which printed the Alarms in the Central office equipment cabinets. Parsed the text for alarm conditions, and which cabinet the alarm was in (announced the Alarm,priority and CABINET/SHELF/SLOT using a voice speech chip over intercom, so guys on the floor didn't need to run back to the printer in the back room, sometimes on another floor). It was a cool proof of concept. Never got implemented across all CO's, but it began a long HANDS ON fun career in IT.

[wbrejnia]

Found a better reference for your controller card that covers fdisk and all that

http://www.coleskingdom.com/files/WD1002.TXT

Darkage, this is amazing. A complete manual. I read it all.

So it answers my biggest question. "Is a driver Needed to pick up the C: hard Drive".

Answer is no.

Just DOS (Fdisk) and (Format).

Since I haven't changed any jumpers since it last worked, the Drive should be picked up by the controller. (If it not DEAD, or read below another reason)

I'm going to try "fdisk" again.

But I have a hunch if it doesn't pick up (and I may need your help).

I only have DOS 6.2. Maybe it only supports more modern drives like the WD Lifeguard Disk I have.

Maybe I need DOS 3.x to with and older version of FDISK, and thus the Amiga PC also need to boot with that Older DOS TOO!!

I need a DOS 3.x Boot disk, with the FDISK,FORMAT matched.

For now I'm going to download that older version of the LIFEGUARD tool and see if the AMIGA PC running it pickup up the HD.

[wbrejnia]

I found my KAlOK Ocatagon Hard Drive.  (MAY NEED THIS FOR FUTUR FORMAT)
 
 http://maben.homeip.net/static/S100/DISK/specs/Golden%20Oldie%20Drives.pdf  
 
 Can't tell what Model # (Just a Defect Head sticker on top).
 
 Need remove it to see underneath.

[wbrejnia]

Be cautious with those manuals - notice they have a block of strange characters at the end?

The WD Controller Manual looks to me complete.

[wbrejnia]

Darkage,

I thought the same as you. So I Hooked up the Hard Drive, Booted DOS and ran FDISK.

The HARD DRIVE did not pick up in "FDISK" or just typing "C:" in DOS.

I flipped both ribbon cables just in case. Rebooted, and FDISK didn't pick up.

AGAIN, I'm wondering do we need an OLDER VERSION OF DOS to pick up the RLL DRIVE. (Why would Microsoft continue to support super old/obsolete Hard drives in DOS or FDISK?)


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I HAVE ALSO Been looking into MS DOS and how drives are recognized (DRIVER or otherwise)

Below shown are two DOS commands that might be "like a Driver" with a BIOS Controller and some smarts on disk.

EXAMPLE IS for a FLOPPY but it does apply to HARD DRIVES TOO



DRIVPARM=/d:01 /f:02 ; For a 720K floppy disk drive on B:
DRIVPARM=/d:01 /f:07 ; For a 1.44K floppy disk drive on B:
DEVICE=DRIVER.SYS /d:01 /f:02 ; For a 720K floppy disk drive on B:
DEVICE=DRIVER.SYS /d:01 /f:07 ; For a 1.44K floppy disk drive on B:
 
THIS IS DRIVPARM Command help http://www.dewassoc.com/support/msdos/drivparm.htm

THIS IS DRIVER.SYS Command help http://www.vfrazee.com/ms-dos/6.22/help/driver.sys.htm

The DRIVER.SYS device driver creates an external reference to the floppy disk drive if it is configured correctly. DO NOT REFERENCE Drive B; otherwise, the floppy disk drive will be installed incorrectly. If you have a hard disk Drive C and you set up DRIVER.SYS, it will create a reference of D: to the 1.44 MB disk in Drive B. Use Drive D to access the 1.44 MB floppy disk drive.

BUT THIS MAY GIVE A CLUE (on a need for OLDER DOS), Just the fact that older drives are not longer supported in DOS 6.2

[wbrejnia]

THIS IS GETTING TO BE TOO MUCH.
 
 I am starting to FEEL LIKE FORMATTING THAT HARD DRIVE, and go forward than all this Reverse Engineering.
 
 It may simply prove it works and I'm happy that I have a working system and built it up to whatever it can be.  I wouldn't trust this HARD DRIVE FOR Anything anyway.  It's a collector piece like my OLD 1MB Compact Flash Card.
 
 Or it doesn't work (Hard Drive is toast), or if Formats but we are Still without a recognized HARD DRIVE.
 
 The more I spend time on this Amiga, the more I remember what I did in university.   I used the XT machine to run MATLAB, so I wouldn't have to wait in line in the LABs.
 
 I think I wrote my Thesis using the Amiga Side.  Can't be sure.
 
 Even if it's there all this work for 50 pages of spelling mistakes.
 The Photo's I have, and that Cartridge is the best I could ever want.
 
 Going to think about this, after a bit more tries.
 
 NEXT STEP is to run some WD Tools and see if HD is seen.

[wbrejnia]

FIRST STRIKE (Failure of Western Digital V2.0 LifeGuard Tool)

This tool doesn't work (won't even run) on AMIGA DOS 6.2 (It's meant for ATA, since it worked in other PC).

Going to download the older version of WD lifeguard

[wbrejnia]

Im wondering if the drive has to be low level formatted to match up parameters with the controller card. but of course we dont want to do that. this drive has only ever last been used with the amiga right ?

 The controller card should match the drive.  This is all original, bought by me, never touch for ages. (It worked before).
 
 I even checked the WD card and jumper settings.  They are no jumper, (all open), and compared that to the manual that means BIOS is turned on (proven), only one drive (correct) and set to a Hard drive (Highest capacity at the time).
 
 I JUST LOOKED INTO THAT LIFEGUARD TOOL Link you provided.  I have Version 2.1 and it doesn't work.  The download is V1.3 will give it a try (but release notes say lowest supported OS is XP)

 
 IF THAT DOESN'T WORK.   I am seriously at a point where I'll try and FORMAT THE HARD DRIVE
 
 Who knows (as I stated above) the format may refresh the Sectors, and not wipe it out (thus it may become active)

[wbrejnia]

STRIKE 2 ( THE WD Tool V1.x is Years NEWER than the V2.1)
 
 I downloaded the WD Tool provided.  It's a new version for Windows.
 
 My version 3.2 would only run in DOS, but too new for the Amiga PC
 
 ALL DEAD ENDS
 
 All that I'm going to try before FORMAT:
 
 1) ATTEMPT is the DRIVEPARM and DRIVER.SYS commands. (If they are on my 6.2 DOS Install 3 Disk Set)
 
 2) I just found a DOS 3.3 BOOT DISK (With no FDISK on it, just Command.com).  I'll run DOS 6.2 "Fdisk" from DOS 3.3 and if it fails that mean FDISK has changed over 2 versions

[wbrejnia]

STRIKE 2.5 (MSDOS 3.3 BOOT DISK incompatible with DOS 6.2 Commands)

As I expected. I tried to run "Format" command from a DOS 3.3 DISK that I found and it won't run in DOS 6.2), then FDISK would even be worse.

If I don't find a DOS 3.3 BOOT DISK and FDISK for it, I'll consider this STRIKE 3 and try the format.

[wbrejnia]

One more bit of research/education for me. (Rough Guesses, I may be totally off)
 
 But could this be the way to get the C: Drive (HARD DRIVE) recognized by AMIGA DOS?
 
 
 DRIVEPARM is a command
 
 DRIVER.SYS is a config file
 
 Within DRIVER.SYS you can insert
 
 DRIVERPARM with options
 and then assign a device
 DEVICE=[drive:][path]DRIVER.SYS /D:number [/C] [/F:factor] [/H:heads] [/S:sectors] [/T:tracks]
 
 as below
 
 Parameter
 
[drive:][path]
    Specifies the location of the DRIVER.SYS file.
 
Switches
 
/D:number
    Specifies the number of the physical floppy disk drive. Valid values for
    number are in the range 0 through 127. The first physical floppy disk
    drive (drive A) is drive 0; a second physical floppy disk drive is drive
    1; a third physical floppy disk drive, which must be external, is drive
    2. For a computer with one floppy disk drive, drives A and B are both
    numbered 0; for a computer with multiple floppy disk drives, drive B is
    numbered 1.
 
/C
    Specifies that the physical disk drive can detect whether the drive door
    is closed (change-line support).
 
/F:factor
    Specifies the type of disk drive. Valid values for factor are as
    follows:
 
        0    160K/180K or 320K/360K
        1    1.2 megabyte (MB)
        2    720K (3.5-inch disk) or other
        7    1.44 MB (3.5-inch disk)
        9    2.88 MB (3.5-inch disk)
 
    The default value for factor is 2.
 
    Generally, if you use the /F switch, you can omit the /H, /S, and /T
    switches. Check the default values for these switches to make sure they
    are correct for the type of disk drive you are using. To determine the
    appropriate values for the disk drive, see the disk-drive manufacturer's
    documentation.
 
    If you specify the /H, /S, and /T switches, you can omit the /F switch.
 

[wbrejnia]

FINAL DECISION (NO Formatting of Amiga PC Octagon HD)

So I decided not to format the Hard Drive using the WD debug utility.

Instead this is the Project Plan:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROJECT 1 [ Amiga 2000 with Bridgeboard ] * Completed *
- Amiga 2000 with Sound (working)
- Amiga Monitor (working)
- Amiga Keyboard (Most needed keys working, F1-.. need fix)
- Amiga Mouse (working)
- Epyx Joystick (working)
- 3.5 Internal Amiga Disk (working)
- Bridgeboard (working)
- Amiga External A1010 Drive [Amiga & on Bridgeboard] (working)
- Three Kickstarts ROMS including Original (working)
- OS [Workbench 1.2 & 1.3 on appropriate kickstarts] (Working)
- SW Licenses (Have a few original Copyright Disks for Amiga, Bridgeboard and working downloaded copies)
- CURRENT USABLE (GAMES, MS DOS, Amiga OS) Good old RETRO stuff.
- FUTURE PROJECTS (upgradable with additional components, including Modern solutions)
- CONSIDERATION: Sell   Fully Tested and Working System (All documented in detail on Amiga.org Thread)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROJECT 2 [ 386 PC - DOS 6.2 with WD Controller & Hard Drive ] * Future *
- Install WD Controller with HD into 386 AT/XT
- Try to get above working with MS DOS
- HAVE [Hard Drive] [3.25" 1.44 MB Floppy Drive]
- ** Try to get controller working with HD**

- ** Last resort try DEBUG Format on Hard Drive **
- ** IF WORKS ** consider putting back into Amiga **

- ** IF DOESN'T WORK ** Below:
- CONSIDERATION: Sell working WD Controller Card from Amiga PC
- CONSIDERATION: Sell PC RS232 CARD from Amiga PC
- MOMENTO: One Stone Age RLL Hard Drive (for Retro Shelf )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PROJECT 3 [Aurdino Aquarium Pump Doser ] * Critical *
- Amiga Project has side tracked me too much from Priorities
- Tanks Alkalinity has dropped due to distractions (Could Damage/KILL 30 new Corals in new Tank Setup)
- Finishing Automation gives more time for Project #2 (And Family)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


At least project #1 is completed and I'm happy

[wbrejnia]

Well, this photo makes it clear that it is a MFM/RLL harddrive.
I still have a self-built dual 5 1/4" harddrive unit (2 x 65 mB) with integrated XT power supply, that is connected to the Amiga500 via the so called 'ct-interface' (from the 'ct Computer Magazine), that provides one PC/XT Slot and is plugged into the A500s Expansion port at the left side. In the PC/XT slot sits a 'OMTI MFM/RLL' controller from an old XT PC.

The driver software to operate it on the Amiga was named 'Boil3'.

Provided your controller was not just capable of the MFM format, you could also format a harddrive in RLL format, which allowed for roughly 1/3 more capacity on the same drive.

In my case I got 65 mB when I formatted the drives in RLL format - compared to 43 mB in MFM format.

Back then I also had a "PC Bridge board" in my A500 - the Vortex ATonce 286 Classic . I could run the Amiga and the PC in parallell and switch back and forth between the systems, which was pretty cool back in 1988/89...

The PC side was started from the Amiga side - I had all the necessary files on the Amiga side of my harddrives. There also was a partition for the PC side on the one of the drives, from where I booted M$-Dos 6.22 or later one of the early Win versions - but just in "monochrome" (IIRC, it was called 'Win for 286')...

Interesting..... Especially the comments about "Boil3", and drivers on the Amiga side.

One last effort I'm going to make, since know so much more about the bits and pieces I have and how they work separately (eg. WD controller), compared to when I started this journey, is to go through the 3 Custom Workbench disk I have Labelled "From Past" as "working" (but are partially not readable, so I can't boot with them) is to go through them all and examine the "startup-sequence files".

There might be a clue in the startup of the Past Working Amiga for something not described in the Bridgeboard Install Manual.

Will try before I start hacking things in the 386, and running the WD Low level format (which could end all hope of data recovery)
 
 Also since I have to take the HD out, I'll put back the original Kickstart ROM, and cut off that Battery (which hasn't leaked yet).