CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers

[Wildstar128]

I mean this is a constructive way, believe me.

CUSA have not been without their own share of distortions and truth-bending. The question that needs answering is this one; who distorted the truth first...??

I am not going to go weed through a million posts on 3-5 different forums with most of them across all of them.

IIRC: I believe the issue belies misunderstanding. I don't remember that much of great reading comprehension among the Commodore and Amiga users still active that I have came to known and met in person and across the forums for over a decade time frame.

This isn't an intended as an insult but it is prevalent that people don't recall what someone says verbatim after less then a day. Already, proof above. I am guessing that it had become a bad case of misunderstanding from both parties and believe me, it is hard for keep calm when you read 10-15 pages full of insults.

I think it would be better if we strive to not get emotional with our responses and it takes all parties to make that happen.

It also makes it hard to tell and get the heads and tails of each response when there is so much vitriol.

Amiga community, can we all strive for less vitriol on our conduct. Lets forget who started what. Not worth it.

[Wildstar128]

Therein lies the problem, Wildstar. Why does it have to be "mainstream"? What's wrong with being quirky and a little different? Why try and compete with too many things at the same time? Why try and sell the same thing into a saturated market, where you have no USP or differentiation? This is exactly why CUSA are shooting in the dark with their ideas and have no clear idea of their target market.

Some of us on here have done sales and marketing....

If you are going back to grass-roots programming to teach the next generation how do program properly, you don't need an uber computer at all; even a netbook is over the top. The simpler it is, the easier it will be for people to understand how to program for it.

If the active Commodore and Amiga community was 100 times larger then it would be be more viable.

Part of the reason is Commodore USA doesn't have some angel putting in billion dollar venture capital that would allow it to do the R&D for a real product even if it is differentiated. The problem is that the digital computer industry is mature now. It is not a pioneering time anymore. They need to get started and get capital. If Barry had the venture capital and that you guys had a serious product that people would use daily for mainstream purpose then yeah.

Computers are like any other product or tool. It has to serve a purpose for which it is designed for. It must be usable to its purpose and ability first. The majority of people buy computers and other products because they need it. Most computer users use computers not program or develop for them. Most are not the geek crowd tinkering. Nothing wrong with that but that wasn't what Commodore Business Machines and Jack Tramiel was about. In fact, that was exactly the opposite. Computers for the masses not the classes. That was what it was about even in the post-Tramiel era even though they were confused with no leadership whatsoever but the only thing guiding them was the inertia of the C64 which Jack Tramiel and company had started. If Jack Tramiel stayed at Commodore, and he got Amiga.... Which would have happened. He would have brought Amiga out much akin to the C64 and c64 sales may have stopped or slown down faster to switch product and kind of followed a similar pattern between Apple II and Mac. At least the Amiga had color. There might not have been the 128 and the Amiga and PC line features would have been integrated so an Amiga would run intel software and x86 out of box and probably even the c64 would have been integrated in some way for backward compatibility as they consolidate the product lines and do it i expensively.

Amiga licensing may have happened at some point.

That is of course What if...

[Wildstar128]

You don't need to.  We've supplied some of them right here.

There was no misunderstanding.  It is a clear pattern of deliberate lies which has been ongoing for months.

What is also apparent is that you have no interest in admitting it.  You are here with an agenda.  Are yoiu being paid by the hour or by the post?

How many times do I have to tell you that I am not paid by CommodoreUSA whatsoever. I never had been paid by any of the Commodore entities. There is some of that by you and others on this. What is your reason?

Show me the very post this whole issue began. Not just thos thread but from when this whole animosity and issue began. Show me that.

[Wildstar128]

Hmm... It's not what people have said that is the problem, per se; It's more about what has been said in print from the horse's mouth from false statements and posting of plagarised photographs on websites, used as CUSA's advertising, that is the issue. If CUSA's executives can't remember what they told people on websites, then "Oh what a tangled web (heh) we weave, when first we practice to deceive.."

As you allude to in your post, people who tell porkies have to have a good memory.... and people don't like being lied to....

Alright, lets make it simple...

Put a list of the posts by Barry that you guys considered lies. The photo issue has been answered already. So, get over that one, guys. Does the factory really make that big of a difference. I do see some issue of not memorizing the issues or even recognizing the responses and selective listening and recall by someof the Amiga members here? What is their reason? Never mind, lets not waste time with that.

Simply put, I just simply want to see less emotionally driven vitriol on the matters of the discussions of this topic.

[Wildstar128]

Wildstar128=Barry

just admit it....

Robert Bernardo, Jeri Ellsworth can certainly confirm to you that I am not Barry.

They actually met me in person. There are several others that can vouch that I am a different person.

[Wildstar128]

Thanks for digging that up.

I hope Wildstar reads it all from page 1 (but I'm sure he already knows about it).  Then it is worth tracking down the other threads as they show more designed that are not theirs, insult customers, send insulting and threatening PMs, post the contents of private PMs, etc.

It should keep him busy for months.

I will take my time looking at them. I can see how this devolved. I will have to read through it a few times as it takes a great deal to process this.

I do have some feelings that some of the responses were baseless and just part of childish, immaturity of some of the folks. Some claims were ridiculous.

I can say that Leo had stated a few things that might have been inappropriate in terms of claiming not that you won't wait x number of months. It was too open ended. Granted, they are only human running a business venture is unique and you make mistakes or decisions that might not have been the best or state things that might be a little loose with the mouth. Both Barry and Leo do have some looseness of the mouth. Maybe we all do.  Experience may limit those occurances.

I am not saying I am perfect either. I have been critiqued (ie. Ridiculed) about it. Someone here made a loose reference to percentage. This is why I don't use percentages about project status. It is also why I don't announce projects until they are done or ready for some review.

Anyway, the community often reacts far too volitile and with vitriol when it isn't really necessary. It is a problem with the "punk culture" which some of the community members come from. Sorry if the label offense anyone. It is meant to put into simple words that describes the culture and that was very popular among the demo scene.

This may certainly underly some of the cultural factors involved in the community that still is active.

[Wildstar128]

Also lets not forget this little nugget from Barry when the vic slims were been announced.
 
http://www.commodore-amiga.org/forum/27-commodore-usa/2528-vic-slim?limit=15&start=15&lang=en#4560

 
This was the same thread that Barry also mentioned this when the question was asked about the vic slim pricing.

I would have to criticize him on being too cavelier and maybe too loose with the mouth and letting professionalism slip but people aren't expected to be perfect. Everybody has personality and so did Jack. Jack had his own way of speaking then again if we know anything about Jack Tramiel then we would know something about him. Barry is from a later generation and I believe Barry is not Jewish so that may play into how Jack is compared to Barry.

However, I don't see it much different then Sam's gaffes.

Barry, be careful of gaffes. There are some childish jerks in the world that would do anything to make a public scene to embarass a person in public.

Some of my poke and jabs on this forum is just that. After all, I got that from you guys.

[Wildstar128]

Have at it.  Also feel free to search for other threads started by "Dammy" on Amiga.org or by "Damocles" (as he likes to be called) on Amigaworld.net.

I warn you now that there is a mountain of stuff to wade through.  We don't call him "Spammy" for nothing.  

I am aware of Spammy Dammy... LOL.

I don't think anyone at CommodoreUSA can really do much to stop what someone who is not employed by them in terms of what is said. Not even a copany like Microsoft. Don't assume. If you want to verify info, talk to Leo or Barry in a civil manner. Just ask what you want to know. Don't waste time on meaningless garbage and the other piss and vinegar. After all, it stinks up the place.

At least, we should strive to find civil measures to talk about these topics and keep it civil.

Fussing over spilled milk isn't worth the time. Enjoy your Commodore 8-bits, classic Amiga and PPC systems and your CUSA products if any of you purchases them. Just enjoy and have fun.

[Wildstar128]

LOL. Where are you coming up with all these numbers? Yay for creative accounting! :hammer:

Look up salary of a computer hardware engineer. Assume a year's pay and if you get the guy working his or her butt off and get a product delivered.... Voila.

These numbers are based on practical norms. People like Jeri and Jens and Bil Herd would be paid in these numbers. The more drawn out your R&D and complex it is, the more it would be. I would recommend even higher budget for R&D of hardware electronics.

Modern software development isn't cheap either when you actually pay people for their time.

[Wildstar128]

Why would that have any bearing on how he reacts to criticism and comments? thats the biggest load of tosh I have read in a while :whack:

You are misunderstanding the point. It may play in how someone talks and writes. Depending on generation and religious views might play into whether you would call someone an a--hole or refrain from those word usage. Most people in Jack's generation certainly used less vulgarity and name calling. Depending on what Jewish 'denomination' (sorry, I don't know the proper term for hebrew/jewish equivalent to christian denominations), that may play into how tight to certain social conduct standards one would hold themselves to.

It wasn't that important except the main point to be drawn is that may influence Jack in a different manner to Barry. This isn't to say anyone is good or bad person but simply about social customs.

[Wildstar128]

Actually this is my biggest complaint. My feeling is that he doesn't have the experience and knowledge to be a successful entreprenuer.

No one knows or has a given set of experience to be certain of being a successful entreprenuer. Entrepreneurship is like gamble. There is 1000s of recipes and each is different. If we based things on similar standards, would Jack Tramiel qualified in 1970s just before the KIM and PET. It is hard to say.

I have talked to Barry and I can attest to you that he does have a vast understanding of business. Being successful is not thing you can be guaranteed. You win some, you lose some. That is how life of a business works. How you deal with it... That is the test.

How you respond to the market. No one supporting the Commodore and Amiga classics can I say are really successful entreprenuers. Then, the have set the bar pretty low to something easy that they can do with a real job in day and part time hobby at night. Sorry for the pun.

[Wildstar128]

You don't understand why we participate in this hobby, I'm not about to waste my time with trying to explain the "hobby" aspect again and why money isn't a factor.  Just like it isn't to some guy that loves model steam locomotives, you can tell him his "tech" is old school, and chide him for spending a dime on it.  That does not detract from the fact he DOES spend money on it, and DOES enjoy it, and SOMEONE is on the business end of it providing services or goods to allow said enthusiast to keep at his hobby.

I'll ask again:  why are you still here?  I fail to see that you've done anything for many pages now other than sling personal insults towards the community, and quite frankly the mods are dropping the ball in a horrible fashion.  How are you helping the community, and A.org?

Kudos to the Jewish reference - nice to know you are a stereotyping racist, too.  Not sure why the constant Tramiel/Altman comparisons are going on - Tramiel did business practices that were bordering on illegal.  You are not only an abusive bore, but now a racist.  Wow.  Didn't think it'd get worse, but here we are.

RIP Tramiel, but I'll call that one like history has it down, and a wise man would have done his homework on Jack's little "takeover" history.

The insult slinging happened on both sides of this argument and you are not innocent either. I do believe because he was Jewish, it was customary to not use vulgarity or engaging in the kind of insult slinging as it would be breaking from one of the 10 commandments. That is the limit of that reference. That was simply a matter of difference. Some persisted the furthering, I believe I had already dealt withnthat point. Some aspects of Barry's conduct, yo would not see a jewish man of his generation doing. That is just a difference between Jack. NOthing more nothing less. Do you get the point so we are done with that point or are we going to simply fuss over.

I know the hobby part but no person can possibly get bank lending to support any of this. No venture capitalist on the planet has ever considered this platform viable since 1999. No one can ever break even on their time. Every person who engages in Commodore and Amiga development loses money including their time.

This is why you can't expect real businesses to support something because real businesses is about making money and profits. That is the purpose of a business entity vs. Doing something for a hobbu.

I have been using the Commodore and Amiga for hobby since about 13 years. When I did graphics for Spork64 for c64 with the group Retro64... That is a hobby. No money.

However, if I am to pay the bills and have food on the table and actually live and not literally starve to death or dehydration in a cardboard box then I better have an income either in working as an employee or running a business. Therefore a business can't be about something that makes no income or the income is so small that the years of time investment would never be paid off.  

When I do bulding design work, a business, for clients - it is not for charity. I have to make an income. I have stayed much out of computer software and hardware development because all the jobs have been exported to chinese and india exployees that works for $1.50 an hour withna life style of someone in U.S. for $15 an hour because everything costs 1/10th the amount of US currency in those countries as it costs innthe US for the same item.

How is that legitimate currency exchange. Well.... You can imagine that most of the companies have exported the work there because it cost them less.

That is only part of it. That only addresss lack of jobs other then database entry which I do not enjoy nor did I ever wanted to do. I was interested in the creative development side of things. The other aspect is nobody can make a living as an independent software programmer because no one is going to pay for software that doesn't take up an entire DVD with 3d graphics, cinematics and all the movie level production team requirements or a mega-scale office suite and the likes. If it is a <10-100 MB game with mostly still images and other basically, 2d software of small scale... You can't even get $0.01 for it. It is that difficult to be an independent software developer guy. Sure, I can do that as a hobby but the time commitment without the ability to make a living is a problem.

I am sure some of you feel the strain and difficulty of committing the time and not be able to make a living on your own. Software industry has been largely Corporatetized.

I have to keep in mind that as I still have to pay bills like everyobe else.

Do you think any serious legitimate business is going to invest money in R&D for anything with no ROI?

Vesalia can basically sell stuff on a consignment basis which they receive profits but they didn't have to put huge input cost to take drastic risks.

Unless I can make a load of money without working, I don't think I can afford to be living a hobby.

[Wildstar128]

Largely, I left computer software development and to extent hardware development, because the time investment would require fulltime as in 40 hours a week to get things done in a timely fashion. I can't afford to do that unless I make sufficient income that I at least break even on all cost factors including R&D.

Otherwise, use your mad hacking skills and win me that PCH $5000/week for life and I would be more than happy to put investment in projects and do such for a living.

[Wildstar128]

I don't expect hobby businesses to attract big money lenders, lol.  See, that's the point.  Your lecture on how we're all pissing time and money down the drain, and how guys like MikeJ, Jens, and etc. are not "legitimate businessmen" is hot air.  You just don't get it, it's not about cash, so please quit talking down to us in the vein of "financial viability".

Maybe all of these Amiga hobby business dudes work day jobs still - matters little to me.  When my FPGA arcade board arrives, I'll thank Mike and crew for all the ass busting they did on it.  I'll pay the price, which by outside standards I likely could buy a good commodity PC for that price.  And I'll be happy with it.  It will take me back to when I was 16, I'll enjoy it for what it is.  I'll be BLOODY happy I was able to support a crew of people that are likely only breaking even on what they are selling.  A labor of love, guys getting their hands dirty and burned up by soldering irons.  The grunts.  The guys doing things for fun rather than money.

In a world of everything being a commodity, getting true enjoyment out of a hobby is one of the only honest pursuits one can have.  It's a get away.  A throw back to the past.  Fun.

I've got a lot of hobbies.  The least of which is the Amiga.  I also make repro and custom parts for vintage motorscooters and tattoo machines, in addition to a day job.  I like doing it, and mostly only benefits my immediate friends.  It's fun.  I know I will not get rich at it, and I am lucky if I break even when all is said and done.  I will keep doing this, and not for the green.  It has virtually no impact on my RL income, it's something I'd be doing anyways for my own enjoyment.  A hobby, no financial aspects.  Hobby.

All the "financial viability" talks on how people catering to the legacy/niche real Amiga market are wasting their time is nonsense, because it's not about that.  The Amiga, the original breed - has been dead for almost 20 years, yet people still keep buying accelerators, network cards, USB and IDE interfaces - all forms of new hardware that comes out.  New software for these "dead and buried platforms" comes out on a weekly basis, and no one has the slightest delusion the Amiga will rise from the dead and crush the commodity PC market.  Hobby.  A good word to remember.

Personally, I'm just thankful there's so many options in this community.  There's so much room for people to fiddle around with their preferred version of what they view as "an Amiga".  Plenty of aftermarket hardware for legacy systems.  A handful of FPGA solutions.  OS4 and PPC boards.  MOS and cheap Mac's.  AROS and x86 hardware.  Various emulators like AF, AmiKit, Amithlon, UAE.  Take your pick - no one retailing or otherwise promoting any of the above items will be the next Jobs or Gates, and I am sure they are just fine with that.

First off CommodoreUSA is a registered business:

Detail by Entity Name
Florida Limited Liability Company
COMMODORE USA, LLC
Filing Information
Document Number   L10000033511
FEI/EIN Number   272216308
Date Filed   03/26/2010
State   FL
Status   ACTIVE
Effective Date   03/25/2010
Principal Address
5250 NE 20TH AVE.
FORT LAUDERDALE FL 33308 US
Mailing Address
5250 NE 20TH AVE.
FORT LAUDERDALE FL 33308 US
Registered Agent Name & Address
ALTMAN, BARRY S
5250 NE 20TH AVE.
FORT LAUDERDALE FL 33308 US
Manager/Member Detail
Name & Address
Title MGRM
ALTMAN, BARRY S
5250 NE 20TH AVE.
FORT LAUDERDALE FL 33308 US
Annual Reports
Report Year   Filed Date
2011   02/16/2011
Document Images
02/16/2011 -- ANNUAL REPORT   

03/26/2010 -- Florida Limited Liability   

Note:*This is not official record. See documents if question or conflict.

Copied from Florida Business license entity search.

Barry, Leo, etc. From what I recall, are full time. This means that Barry is doing this as a full time operation. This isn't working on this just as a part time or weekend matter. They can't afford to do Commodore and Amiga classic for full-time. Granted, you and I and those other guys an do this as a hobby as long as we have an income somewhere to cover our expenses in life.

As it is, I have college, running a building design business as a service based sole-proprietorship, I can't spend much time to hobbies. There just isn't enough hours left in a day. Business is running slow right now. That is compounded be current economy.

Jens, MikeJ, etc. I know those guys and they do a great job for this as a hobby. I just wouldn't say they are doing this as a business but more as a quasi-business. They aren't doing this as their means of living. They don't do this to pay the bills. That is the kind of difference between a hobby and a business.

The last actual full-time hw developer business that was in the Commodore scene was CMD, Inc. if I recall.

[Wildstar128]

Anyone that would be buying the copyrights and trademarks aren't looking at doing this for just a hobby. That is what I was having issues with people demanding CommodoreUSA to operate as a hobby.

That is my complaint. You don't spend the order of tens of thousands of dollars on IP for.

If we understand that then I should not see people demanding such requirements that are insufficient for full time business ventures.

I personally don't have any issue with someone spending their time doing something as a hobby. You just can't run a fulltime business to support a hobby unless there is sufficent customers for the products to sell and yield net profit to keep the business running and cover living expenses and have room for personal purchases.

[Wildstar128]

I am fully aware as to the business (LLC) status of Commodore USA.  Having run businesses of my own, I'm well aware of the perks (and drawbacks) of an LLC.  If I gave the impression I was thumbing my nose at LLC status, or otherwise implying C-USA is "not a business", that was not intended.  I don't believe I implied otherwise.  They have every right to conduct business as they wish, and unlike many here - I have zero interests or stake in some ideal that they are "defiling the Amiga name".

No one, including me - expects them to see the community as a charity case.

That being said, don't ask the community to see them as anything other that a commodity PC vendor selling Linux boxes.  Barry's own interview confirmed as much.

I wish C-USA no ill will.  I do not dislike Barry, Leo, Dammy, etc. - or anyone else in the extended community.  I assure you if I was waiting with baited breath hoping they fail, I'd let you know.

In fact I hope they make a rock solid PC that people buy and enjoy for many years to come.  That being said, it is becoming tiring on A.org and other well established Amiga forums portals how a commodity PC vendor is going to "save us all", when they themselves have so much as stated they are selling commodity boxes under a nostalgic name.

Just as I would be if Dell showed up here spamming adverts and press for their Intel machines.  Best of luck, but how it pertains to any of us is beyond me.  People would like to see some actual Amiga content on A.org rather than bickering about a PC vendor.

No one is "demanding" a single thing from C-USA.  In fact, their challenge to the community was largely ignored and laughed off due to the terms of it.  They brought that to us.  No one was willing to pony up a single dime to a commodity PC vendor that for 2 years has done nothing but be extremely abusive towards them, and you can't blame them in the least for that.

Ok, I can agree with a bit of that overall. I agree that bickering is no good for anyone. Thank you for your patience as we overall get some degree of understanding across. I just hope the overall community isn't demanding then to fulfill some age old broken promise of Escom or Gateway. I am confident that if there is budgetary room for more direct support of Commodore and Amiga classics, the would support it if enough people are willing to purchase.

There needs to be enough to support small volumes of products like 500-1000 units of a product. It needs to meet minimum orders conditions or you get too many to meet minimum order volumes but not enough purchases and you can see that is lots of money down the toilet. Jens been down that road and it kind of hurt him financially a little bit for a bit and added frustration with just 300 units of C-One produced. The demand isn't entirely unreasonable with maybe an issue of escrow account. Not sure about that.

If you want a $2000 computer then ok.... 500x$2000 would equal $1,000,000.

If you want a $500 hw spec then you got $250,000 to raise. Maybe I read it wrong but ok.

If they are going to use a custom designed platform then they need to get revenues for that. It is probably easier to develop a state of the art desktop environment following UI mechanics from the now expired patents in a modern 3d twist on next generation.

Hardware like new semiconductor ISA and development of such would be incredably challenging for anyone. They would have to get the old MOS plant and if there is remotely any of the foundry equipment there.. They would need to get that equipment updated at minimum to add additional stepper lenses to reduce the UV beam from 3 microns to um... 30 nm and pray to god it works and upgraded microscope to see that small accurately. We would need someone to make the photolithographs. None of this I would expect to work successfully for too many reasons. It would be easier to go fabless and that facility could be suitable for that and meet EPA. Maybe we be lucky to find anything there.

That is why I would be critical of expecting any new Amiga PPC hw that is competitive.

If they were to invest in such R&D, it would be something new not being overly concerned with technologies that the patents expired 3-6 years ago.

For someone to make new patentable hw, it is going to cost some $$$.

I don't think they are ready for that in-house.