CommodoreUSA CEO Interview Answers

[Wildstar128]

I know this is probably heresy to the hardcore amiga guys, but I actually don't care about the processor other than "fast or slow". Im not a programmer at all, so I have no real idea what the differences really are.

My question was.. what did CUSA develop, that anyone else have not done?

I can't say that they done anything that anyone else couldn't do. I would say that they had done some customize scripting in the COS-V and all but lets keep in mind that Commodore USA is only just beginning. Commodore business machines was well established by 1975 and 1980s. They had 20 years. So, it would be difficult to get the more advance and more custom UI and other features to further customize COS-V into something with its own flavor. Developing a desktop environment that is totally custom would require R&D.

If you are interested and have some ideas and skills for a custom desktop environment... Then maybe that would be something to consider that is revolutionary but functional and intuitive.

It is possible to capture that spirit in a way that Amiga did in 1984.

[Wildstar128]

Just for the record, I don't need you to tell me how to run a business or to go on a course.  I own my own company and I'm doing very well thank you.

You need to tell C-USA how to run a company and to go on a business course because computers do not equal furniture.

Business is simply about selling a product that people would use at a fair price. Jack Tramiel did quite well with that philosophy.

Of course it isn't furniture but Barry been in business with cable companies and more for some time. I have talked to him before. Darrin, I don't work for CommodoreUSA. I am independent in that regard but I may certainly have good enough relations That he might consider listening to the thoughts and then decide. I am not promising anything.

I been done such roads before.

[Wildstar128]

I ordered a PETDISK for my CBM 8032 last week if that helps.

Alright, I would want to have an idea of price and media its on. On one end, I would have to consider media suitability and availability.

I know floppy disks are getting hard to come by.

MicroSD, MMC/SD would be the ideal medium now. Alright, so, that means software on such would make a good media target. Of course, at cost plus some amount.

I like the PETDisk idea and maybe cover also IEC and perhaps generic ethernet could be pulled off for other systems.

[Wildstar128]

Why does every CommodoreUSA fan say they don't work for them???

That is because CommodoreUSA doesn't have large number permanent employees. In addition, I don't have anything against them and I think they are serving some benefit in the long run indirectly. The reactions by some have been way over done and even to a point, uncalled for.

CommodoreUSA has some good products if its features suitably suits your needs.

I am not necessarily a fan but I am not against working with them. Note: I said 'with' not 'for'.

[Wildstar128]

Let me get this:

New guy comes in, tells us all we're a bunch of dottering old farts wasting our time on our old computer hobbies.  x86 is the FUTURE!  CHANGE NOW OR DIE!
We've heard that for nearly 20 years, Skip.  It's old hat.

Banters back and forth, insulting people telling them they need business training to "understand".  We don't need business training to have fun with a hobby, Champ.  Claims no affiliation with C-USA in every post - not that anyone asked.

Things come full circle, he's now an enterprising up and coming dude wanting to work with C-USA and the retro scene and provide us what we want, after he for the better part of the day called you all *******ed idiots (or worse).  He's now all ears on how to make our lives better, and suddenly a big wig in the world.  Still with no C-USA affiliation.

This place is getting worse by the minute.  Very little is anything Amiga related, and mods seem completely driven by pageviews or something.

Enjoy your CommodoreUSA-Amiga.org ****box, boys.

Here you go with the worse reading comprehension in history. How about write on the chalk board 1000 times word for word, letter for letter what I actually wrote.

I am simply saying there is no way in hell in 50-100 years PPC will dominate over intel over mainstream computing. First off, I am referring to mainstream computer market. On the mainstream computing market, PPC has never been price competitive to intel in 15 years. Intel is the worlds largest semiconductor business on the planet. DEC Alpha lost out just as dozens of others. Use your brain for once.

How does using cpu technology that does not have software that people and majority of business uses going to use advisable. Compound it with an OS with next to nill in new software that computer users uses (vs. Computer programmers) in 20 years worth anything in mainstream computing. The closed off small group is eroding. There used to be nearly a million Commodore and Amiga users actively using Amiga and commodore 8 bit computers in 1995 and now by 2010, there is less then 1000 active Amiga and ~5000 Commodore community members with only 1% uses the computer as their primary computer. That is world wide. So, how in zeus's butthole can you possibly expect a new Amiga PPC amiga that competes competitively with intel.

How many purchases of Amiga x1000 by hyperion et al. How many was ever sold?

If you think that would compete then you have 3 months to port every mainstream software for Windows and Linux to Amiga OS and have it ready to compete against windows 8 and 9 and 10. You have 3 months.... Get crackin'

The user interface has to be as revolutionary between Amiga OS to everyone as Amiga 1000 was to the PET and we must have 256 display capability at 120 fps at 2560x2048 resolution at 48 bit color. It must have 65536 cores each with 256 process threads capable of 4 GHz threading, 256 bit digital data and address architecture, 64 Qubit data and address register architecture and with 64 Terabyte hard drive and 255.1 surround sound and be manufactured at a cost of $99 so it can be sold for $199  by Christmas.

Can you pull that all off ? Until then, quit expecting such.

You want a revolution. Then pull that off. Then you can take out intel.

In the meantime, the mainstream market is Intel. Inconvenient truth isn't it.

To the other idiot,

I been on this forum specifically since 2003. However, I didn't post to this forum that much. I was on lemon, and many other amiga forums and many other forums.

[Wildstar128]

Just tell him to produce a batch of Minimigs (v2.0) in a cheap plastic case (2 layers of plastic parted with spacers and an engraved logo), a pre-loaded SD card with ROM images, Workbench, some ADF games and a 3.1 Hard File and put it on the market for Xmas.  He could even sell AFD games from his "App Store" if he ever gets a Webmaster capable of creating it.

A quick, easy project.  The hardware designs are Open Source, the FPGA code is Open Source, he has the rights to the ROMs and Workbench and the case could be made by a McEmployee on minimim wage.

Of course he was told this right at the start and never listened.  He'd rather sell us overpriced PCs loaded with Linux and hope that we don't notice.

Minimig is FPGA based. From someone who knows the price curve such as Jeri Ellsworth who knows what the price bench mark for FPGA and ASIC. In low volume, FPGAs are cheaper then ASIC but FPGA price is basically the same with a small discount between 1 and 100,000 FPGAs. You might get the FPGA for half the price if you are lucky at batch orders of 250,000 if you can get that. However, ASIC and small die sizing to the nm fabrication, it can probably be down to about $20 given the years since 64DTV if lucky. A whole unit for $49.99 could be achieved but it won't be field reprogrammable and fixed mode.

So we would have to pick the max system spec and hardware. It won't be shifting between cores so to speak but one core.

You can't get FPGAs cheap just by buying in bulk.

[Wildstar128]

They do understand it.  They're paid to ignore it.  

What pay?

[Wildstar128]

Legal Liabilty probably.

That plus Barry told them to say that.  

I been on this forum damn near as long as you have. Longer than Barry. Longer than Duce.

I have been registered on this forum since 2003. So knock the b.s. Off. No pay. Barry can say whatever he wants and I can just as easily give him the birdie and any of you.

I am not under his control. So please stop spreading such false accusations. That is the problem with you guys. Either you never completed 3rd grade or you guys have some serioius psychological issues. Did you dose too much drugs, lsd, etc. During the 80s and that is why you are so screwed up.

Legal Liability.... LOL.

[Wildstar128]

Assembly is cheaper in bulk.  The Minimig doesn't need a big expensive FPGA.  aCube have already made some.  I have one.

Ok, no one outside the Amiga community would be interested in spending more then $50 on computers of 1992 amiga specs. Darrin, the FPGA manufacturers don't give much saving in bulk volume order. The chip is a $200 chip. If Jeri kept the C64DTV on FPGA, it would have cost $99 instead of like $9.99 to produce. There basically is no bulk savings. Also, you can't get the level of bulk volume. It is not supplied.

Neither Altera or Xillinx will have the price of the FPGA down to $9.99 and the rest of the board components costing $10 in bulk volume of 100,000-200,000. It needs to be able to be produced and sold at price compable to the new atari 2600 reproduction or the C64DTV with simple keyboard and mouse with a Vic-slim like case. Amiga lettering.

ASIC would be the process needed to be done from FPGA to ASIC.

We would need to get the complete package down to 1/10th the price for actual cost and then double the price for profit and overhead cost.

That bein a max spec'd hw.

[Wildstar128]

Thing I find so passively odd is the fact the old regulars of A.org are just sitting back, reading this completely unrelated talking head BS from C-USA (nothing related to the Amiga in the least other than a licensing agreement) and not saying a word, while the site is losing any Amiga content in favor of this troll crap that's got nothing to do with the platform we love.

These people are guys that could be giving advice to some kid having problems with a floppy drive on an A500 he dragged out from a boot sale.  These are guys that could be giving coding tips to some guy fighting with his first coding project.  These dudes are guys that could be helping some guy that's got a bad display on an old A2000 he put away 15 years ago, but I fear (and in some cases I outright know) people are avoiding the place like the plague due to the propaganda machine.

Instead, I get the feeling the regulars see threads like all this BS spam and just say "screw it, this place isn't worth it" and go elsewhere.  They see the front page and "news" posts, and it's mostly garbage having nothing to do with the Amiga.  Linux x86 machines that do not even come with an emulator have NOTHING to do with the Amiga - nothing.  The fact that the people spamming it are grossly abusive is 10x worse yet, but man - I get a chuckle out of seeing guys like Franko get banned for having a weird sense of humor while this clown show still goes on...

Am I proposing censorship?  Never.  Am I suggesting that the place shouldn't be a dumping zone for people with personal agendas, trying to make us "see the light"?  I sure am.  There is a balance, and right now it's horribly out of whack.  Amiga.org ain't much of an Amiga site lately.

Right now, some kid is digging an old Amiga out of a relatives closet, having no clue how the thing works, but he's damned curious about it, and he'll need community help to get it going.  Right now, someone is having a cold beer, reflecting fondly about a computer they used 20 years ago, and he's looking around on the web, checking out AROS, MOS, OS4 and the FPGA solutions.

All will eventually stumble upon A.org - I hope.  Unfortunately, all the "hot button" topics here are essentially free press of a commodity PC vendor selling Linux PC's.

That is a shame.

Wildstar, if you are trying to gauge "success" in sales in a niche market, a market that has been thriving for 20 years off grassroots businesses and inventive people.  The Jens S's, the AmigaKit/Vesalia/etc guys, the FPGA guys, the MOS guys, the AROS guys, etc.

NONE will ever get rich off selling what they sell to us.  It is a hobby market.  They know this.  I know this.  Everyone knows this.  It's not about "progress" and "the buck", it's about having a hobby you enjoy.  If you quantify "success" with millions of dollars in sales a year in a hobby community, you are a fool.

We come to Amiga.org to spend time with like minded people that enjoy their hobby - whether it be legacy, PPC, AROS.  Everyone has their own definition of what the Amiga is, and far be it from me to force my opinions of that on anyone, and I use all the Amiga platforms anyways.

No one comes to A.org to get spammed by zealots pushing Linux powered x86 product on them in an insulting fashion.  No one.  No one is here to listen to people drone on incessantly that the x86 platform won 20 years ago.  We knew that 20 years ago.

We are here to lend support and good conversation to other people using Amiga variants, and other than a licensing agreement and a sticker/etching, there's nothing Amiga about the C-USA Amiga platform.  Not a thing, not even an emulator.  If you want to make it into some issue that people here have some sort of witch hunt towards C-USA, go nuts.  The day they put out anything Amiga related that goes past case badging is the day they have relevance to the community here.

Their offerings simply have zero relevance at all at this time here, in my books.

People are leaving due to the lack of topical content here, I guess if people want to watch it happen to A.org, there's other Amiga friendly portals on the web that don't pander to entirely unrelated products/companies.  Page views won't keep this ship afloat in the long run (A.org).

Wildstar, not sure what your deal is.  One minute you seem perfectly capable of having a civil discussion, the next minute it's personal insults like:

 "I am not under his control. So please stop spreading such false accusations. That is the problem with you guys. Either you never completed 3rd grade or you guys have some serioius psychological issues. Did you dose too much drugs, lsd, etc. During the 80s and that is why you are so screwed up."

It's reprehensible and childish - either be productive or don't post, before even more people leave this place due to this tripe.  Your perceived freedom of speech here doesn't give you the right to make personal insults and grade school slurs.

Um, it does have an emulator. It is already in CommodoreOS Vision.

Fair enough as we so far have been kind of at each others throat, metaphorically speaking.

Lets make some ground base here. What can Commodore USA and classic Amiga/PPC amiga community can do to be gain a more civil relationship while allowing Commodore USA to sell their products. Can we add a forum section specifically for CommodoreUSA products discussions that may occur. There are people who might happen to be working with a classic Amiga and maybe buy one of these CommodoreUSA computers.

This way correct and factual knowledge of those systems and the emulators within the CommodoreOS Vision package would be understood coherent without the emotional diatribe and aggressive attacking. Other aspects directly or indirectly between CommodoreUSA and Amiga classic platforms could be options. Software, you name it. Who knows. The point is, can we be civil from start to finish.

First off, if I recall, the OP of the original interview thread started the interview.

It might be about Amiga community learning about what is happening with the Commodore thread.

Lets take a second to think about this, every other Commodore IP holder CEO never even talked to the Commodore members. At least Barry has been remotely communicating with any of you. I give him credit for that. Most would just have sued and shut sites like this down, and so on. Barry is better then the other clowns.

http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_OS_Vision.aspx

Read in Classic Commodore.

"Feeling nostalgic? A goal of Commodore OS Vision is to simplify classic Commodore compatibility, with integrated features to launch classic 8-bit, 16-bit and 32-bit era software via emulation. As Commodore OS Vision continues to develop, we will continue to improve this feature through updates, that further allow PET, VIC-20, CBM-II, C16, C64, C128 and Commodore AMIGA software to be launched effortlessly. The is no need to bother with floppy disks these days, as many games can be legally puchased and downloaded from the internet directly on to your computer. Commodore OS Vision even has an option to boot directly into full screen C64 emulation with the READY prompt. (ROM files and classic games are provided with our machines and purchased media only)"

You just need to dl the workbench and ROMs. So yes, emulation of Amiga classic is already there. There might be an issue with direct distributing because of that poorly written sentence in that Hyperion-Amiga Inc. Lawsuit.

So does that answer at least one Amiga related aspect?

[Wildstar128]

It can be a computer, or it can be a retro games console, or a dev board, or an advanced alternative to the Raspberry Pi.  The market is endless if the price is right.  Ask Nintendo.

$50... Get it down to that price and you got something.

[Wildstar128]

The community is more than used to paying higher prices for niche hardware - I'm not sure where you get the impression peoples' main driving factor is money.

People gladly paid good money for the PPC OS4 boards.  They were not cheap.
People gladly still register MorphOS, despite the fact it is similarly priced to an OEM copy of Windows.

People still gladly pay thru the nose for legacy Amiga systems, for accels and gfx cards for said systems.  Things like the Indivision and the USB addons for classic Amiga systems are in high, high demand and they are grossly overpriced if one was to foolishly compare them to commodity PC counterparts.

A hobby is never cheap, whether it be computing or classic cars - money is rarely a deciding factor.  Enjoyment is.

Show me 1,000,000 Amigans actively using Amiga. Considering you need to expect a 1% of them might purchase a given year. R&D for a hardware developer is easily $100/hr. For labor of time. You need to have account for at least a year to get someone to bring price cost to something a million might buy but expecting only 1% success rate.  It has to be inexpensive enough that it can be bundled without adverse impact on sales price like a CARD bundled and plugs into the Amiga Mini's PCIe slot. Can that be achieved.

You can't R&D what would amount to a loss of a $100/hr. For someone to micronize it and get the cost down. Hardware engineers needs to eat too. They have a family and bills to pay. That is something that is going to cost a deal of money. So, how will the cost be distributed effectively for only a 100 purchasers?

[Wildstar128]

Last we heard the Amiga Mini does not come with Amiga Forever or another similar, legal, all in one, installed by default emulator with ROM's and images.

By that I mean one that includes ROM's and KS/disk images.

Please correct me if I am wrong - just a couple days ago Leo was claiming they were still debating licensing AF, but said atm it was not included.

I am referring to the C-USA Amiga line only, this being A.org and all I don't really care a hell of a lot about the C64 offerings C-USA have.

There is a working emulator without the workbench and Rom which you can just copy over at your own legal peril. Lol...

As far as getting a fully licensed AmigaForever is the ideal. I believe there is UAE?

http://www.amigaemulator.org/files/binaries/

Easy if you need to. There should be ways to deal with that. I believe that is on it or would run in an intance.

Regardless, COS-V is updatable and once the licensing agreement stuff is addressed... Then you will have AmigaForever and I would suspect a downloadable update would get it on the computer. So, once that is solved and resolved, it won't be an issue. There has already been working Amiga emulation proven to work so if you already have AF then you probably don't have to wait.

I quoted the text as is. I wasn't quoting it for the c64 stuff. Ok.

In any case, there is plenty of Linux based Amiga emulators if it isn't yet installed in Beta 8 of COS-V. That is because COS-V would be aimed to have most if not all the Commodore 8 bit and Amiga line with emulation in the common configuration.

It also is aimed to be the main OS environment for the day to day work and then you can use the emulation for running the software. FYI, if you have equivalent hardware specs then COS-V should work and you can test run it.

By know mean am I suggesting that you give up using your classics. We both can agree you probably don't use it for the serious stuff.

[Wildstar128]

Ok I am seriously lacking sleep. I have been up nearly 24hr and this might not be the most sensible post ever written. So appologies up front.

What I don't get is why Barry, or anyone from Commodore USA, officially affiliated or not, feels they need to come and try to convince us that they are the next best thing since sliced bread. Especially as how barry has stated in the past that he is not interested in the opinions from our "muddy little pond".

At the end of the day people will buy these machines. Regardless of what we or other people would say. Why?

Maybe they believe the hype. Maybe the think that this is the real return of commodore. Hell they may be influenced by nostalgia alone. But people will buy these things regardless.

So let them. Let them spend their money on what ever they feel like. Just please let's stop this silly bickering now. As much as I like to pick faults in their products, like woefully inadequate PSU's, I feel its getting to the point were its become more a personal attack rather than sensible discussion.

I am not suggesting it is the next best thing since sliced bread. I am only suggesting in counterargument to unwarranted or unreasonable bashing. If people just say, the systems have rational specifications for mainstream computer users and have a strong theme but currently doe not have the specifications I need or that I currently do not have the needs for it. Current development does not directly involve the classic hardware. Leave it at that and the guys just might have a cool headed rational response without contrived bashing because it doesn't continue on the b.s. path of Escom which failed to follow through and lost opportunity.

Escom failed. They promised and failed. They had opportunity with PPC then. The market does not have that opportunity now and too many left the entire amiga community completely since the decade+ time frame. Then all the b.s. by Bill McEwen et al.

I am all too familiar with the litter of lies and b.s. Over the years. My suggestion, get over it and move on. Seek new opportunities instead.

[Wildstar128]

There are plenty of people developing HW and SW for legacy and NG Amiga systems without starving to death IRL.  Most people refer to it as a "labor of love".  Just because people only see things as being "viable" in terms of dollars and cents, doesn't mean a guy can't eek out an existence selling niche market items in a niche market.

You are equating million dollar profits to "success" in a hobby market, and that just isn't what it's all about.

If it were a loss leader there would be no AmigaKit, no X1000, so on and so forth.  No one does this out of charity.

Thanks for the reply on the emulator issue - as Leo said, there's no working, out of the box emulator included with the proper ROM's and disk images.  UAE doesn't do a whole hell of a lot without them.

I certainly hope the cusaforums.com redirect is a gag.  Makes me nervous to think the place may have sold out and people I would not want to have any of my personal info may have it.

If I have to get a loan from a bank to finance bring a product to production and market, How am I going to sell that to the bank lender.

Think man, think. Bring products to market involves lending or massive loss and destruction to credit.

[Wildstar128]

@Duce

Amiga.org has not sold out to anyone. Expect less CUSA coverage in the future not more. I don't think there is any danger of CUSA trying to buy out your favorite Amiga fan sites anytime soon. Not even including a $10 copy of Amiga Forever with the expensive Linux machines they sell just goes to show how cheap they really are.

Do you understand the laws governing interstate and international trade. You can not bundle software without permission. That is what CommodoreUSA is dealing with in accordance with the laws not the quasi-lawless folks who don't run business in any formal business manner whatsoever.