Latest Issue of Club Amiga Monthly Available Now

[System]

Please feel free to let those who didn't send them money for the press releases exactly what "news" they have to discuss.

{edit}
Looking at that site, I can honestly say that I left feeling depressed.  I have never before seen a more desperate, delusional company effort...  

"Pay us $50 per year, and we'll tell you "what's going on" occassonally.  Otherwise, we won't talk to anyone, or make monthly announcements to the community who actually supports us".

On the other hand, it's a great way to make sure the ONLY people left in the community are those who are willing to blindly contribute money to a questionable effort.  

My guess is that the idea of Bill McEwen as a "marketing guy" is, like 99% of their press releases, greatly overstated.

Also, notice the first comment under the "buy the Amiga club membership" belongs to our favorite cheerleader, Luca Diana (head of their ACCM -- aka Blind, Blonde Cheerleader Squad).  That pretty much says it all.

{/edit}

[System]

Why are you trying so hard to insult us?

I would say that you've read far, far too personally into what was written.  I think it's the most pathetic attempt at extorting money from the community that supports them that I've ever seen.  I don't have anything against the actual people who've "taken a bite of the apple".  

That's your choice, but I will still defend that this community is being crippled by Amiga Inc's even basic hint of public relations knowledge.  

It's Amiga Inc's actions (or lack thereof) that I take offense to, not the people who support them.   For the record, I took an equal umbrage when Fleecy was doing interviews for the "pay per view" AmigaZone.  Restricting knowledge from those who support you unless they physically pay you is stupid.

[System]

@Kay,

I don't "blindly hate" Amiga Inc, or anyone else with the exception of Mike Bouma and Kevin Hisel.  I respect them (Amiga Inc) for being able to stick it out so long, though I firmly believe their continued existence will eventually be the death of this community.

I have just learned, by 8 years of experience (5 years with the current people) not to believe a single word they say any more.

Honestly, I don't expect you to understand.  None of you could understand because you have not been in my position, but I have been personally face-to-face lied to by multiple management members of Amiga Inc on multiple occassions.  As such, I have no more "trust" in what they say or "optimism" that they can actually DO anything, and I damned sure don't have any more "faith" that they are operating in the best interest of this community.

If you were in my position, I've no doubt that you too would also have earned a healthy skepticism towards the current "owners of the week".

[System]

If I follow that logic, it seems like we should, either, quite while we're ahead and become Linux-heads (that's basically where I'm drifting) or start signing up for Retro-computer shows and hanging our with the 8-bit Atari crowd telling stories about how we would have done things if we'd been running Commodore or ogaling AAA specs.

I'm not saying any of that.  Not at all.  A real company with professional management could still come out with a real platform.  DE isn't it.  AmigaOS4 isn't it, unless it comes with real commercial-level applications.

The AmigaOne (I will refrain from my natural desire to call it what it is, the LinuxOne) could be the fastest, most powerful hardware platform on the planet and it won't matter because there are still no AmigaOne or AmigaOS 4 applications from real commercial companies.  Hyperion porting old PC games doesn't count.

[System]

It's a club magazine,

Ok, without malice intended, someone needs to set things in stone.  Was it a $50 non-existent coupon, a $50 non-existent T-shirt, or a $50 magazine subscription?

If someone wanted to tell me that they honestly paid $50 for an Amiga magazine subscription, I'd stop bitching, but I still maintain my point about Amiga Inc's CONSTANT and debatably INTENTIONAL mishandling of community support.

[System]

@Zoltan

I agree regarding money.  It is indeed a big factor for those who expect to get paid.  In some respects however, I don't know that I buy it, because BeOS was on one hell of a good track, even after the money was gone.

In regards to DE, I think it *had* potential, but too bad REBOL beat them to it and has a much larger potential to move ahead on several platforms.

[System]

I'm not saying any of that. Not at all. A real company with professional management could still come out with a real platform. DE isn't it. AmigaOS4 isn't it, unless it comes with real commercial-level applications.

Sega failed with dreamcast, I guess they where a fake company and/or unprofessional management. And every other computer or console platform that has failed has been developed by fake companies and/or real companies with unprofessional management? Because it takes about as much time (maybe, we don't know yet, it's not finished, and might not ever be) developing an OS for new hardware as it does for modern games?

/steffo

[System]

@Slim,

While I agree with the vast majority of what you both said, there's a third element here.  There are people such as the admins here (myself included) as well as Christian, Petra, and others who, for years, have supported the Amiga and the Amiga community.  In those specific cases, those few have EARNED their right to speak by fire.  

There is a growing trend however in the community to polarize into the "you're either with me, or against me" crowd which leaves no room for the MAJORITY of Amiga community members who're already using up-to-date systems and are simply curious to see what's coming next.  Those are the people who will make or break the Amiga, not the Zealots.

Think about this.  Right now, if popular debate tactics hold true, 20% are absolute blind proponents, 20% are absolute opponents.  That leaves 60% of the community that Amiga Inc are completely ignoring and a much larger part of the audience that is simply sitting back and laughing at every embarrassing, stupid mistake they make.  I still consider myself part of that 60% who is curious, but is not impressed by anything they're doing.

Wayne

[System]

@steffo,

I have no idea what you're saying.  Sega's Dreamcast and every other system is different from what has happened with Amiga Inc.  Unlike Amiga Inc, Sega actually had products.  Remember, Amiga Inc HAS ZERO PRODUCTS unless you count AmigaDE/Anywhere/whateverit'scalledthisweek.  Their only concern seems to be licensing a name and making up kitchy little catch phrases such as "Amiga Generation 2".

Back to the point....  Sega could have easily spent money developing the next level of hardware.  After at least three different rounds of competing with Nintendo and now Microsoft, Sega made a GOOD BUSINESS DECISION to remove themselves from the hardware arena and concentrate on what they were good at... Writing games.  

Am I the only one that remembers "Amiga Inc is a software company" -- Bill McEwen (numerous times)

[System]

@wayne

I admit it. I was just nitpicking actually. But I do think that good companies with good management has failed, but with products in their product line that is. And AInc has so far not failed with any products on the market. (We have several cases of good products for very obscure reasons losing against worse products). Some things can't be controlled, but actually getting a product done actually can. So I actually agree a lot with you. I guess I'm just an asshole

[System]

@steffo,

I certainly wasn't trying to suggest that at all, simply that there are things here which should not be forgiven, forgotten, or swept under the rug.  The Amiga and community are just two things I am very passionate about expressing myself.

Wayne

[System]

What on earth do you mean by a "real" company, Wayne?

A real company with real professional management, not a garage effort run by people who appear to having impressing sounding titles and no real experience.

Real companies:
----
AT&T, IBM, Motorola, etcetera. (endless list)

Non-real companies
----
Ones who's only product is selling air, t-shirts, "magazine subscriptions" and licenses.

[System]

while I think it is something which will be resolved as AInc's financial situation improves.

No doubts here.  My problem is that this community, by in large, is extraordinarily fickle.  I think it will be absolutely moronic to see Amiga Inc to deliver a T-shirt after OVER A YEAR and watch the sheep fall into line and forget all about the hell it was to get it and the embarrassment on the mark of Amiga Inc.

Time will tell who is right

 I have never thought of it as a matter of right and wrong to be honest.  The actions of Amiga Inc are documented, and they would embarrass ANY company.  There's no debate there.  The difference is really whether you fit into the 20%, or the 60%...

[System]

Hey Paul,

You REALLY didn't need to change your avatar.  I didn't really mean it.  Besides, if you change your avatar, you'll have to stop acting that way, and I am not prepared to change mine.

Wayne

[System]

I don't agree with the relative sizes of the partitions.

The 20/20/60 rule is a standard quotient in organized two-sided debate.  The object is, in this case which "side" will win over how much of that 60% who are still lingering in the middle.  How you or I feel or "agree" is irrelevant.

I don't agree with the way they are defined. In my opinion, the absolute opponents are just as blind as the absolute proponents.

Never intended to say that they aren't.  Once again, as usual in the Amiga community, things are being read into statements which aren't there to begin with.

Sorry, that's my opinion

You're welcomed to it  Seriously.  I have no problem with where you wish to interpret people's stance as long as you honestly realize that you may, or may not always be right..  That being said, after 8 years of running this site, 5 years of BillCo, and 4 years before that running BBS's to support this community, I've EARNED my position and I know where I stand.  That to me is all that matters.

* I am not particularly impressed with what they've achieved so far.
* I am not particularly appalled either.

Thanks for the admission.  That's more than most of the "red troll side" (not suggesting you are one) will ever admit to.

* I think they are doing their best under difficult circumstances.

Politely but extremely disagreed.  Now that DE has continually failed (how many "partners" does it take to screw over DE?)  their success and immediate survival based on their ability to win over this community.  (That is, if you don't consider them property of Microsoft as most do)  So far, they seem content to ignore the community and invent excuses for doing so.

* I see no need to make their circumstances worse.

Neither do I, but, the major difference in your list between you and me is that I am not prepared to sit here watch this community be torn apart by the completely non-existent community relations they are performing (and in my mind, more of Fleecy spouting 1/2 truths and marketing doesn't count).  It appears by all means that they are ACTIVELY trying to destroy the Amiga community and this is something that *I* will fight tooth and nail against with every grain of my being.

* Based on what little communication I've had with them, they seem to be nice people.

I've had extensive communication with them, and I agree that they are nice people.  They are not however good businessmen, and they are, in my opinion, not acting in the best interest of either themselves or the Amiga community at large.

* They seem to have the approximately the same goals as I do

I think everyone here has the exact same goals as Amiga Inc.  To get paid for doing absolutely nothing.  This is, after all, the ONLY thing they're doing.

* I firmly believe in the saying "It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness"

Good proverb, and actually relevant.  The problem as seen by the middle is two-fold;

1) It's constantly raining in Amiga-land
2) every time someone gets a candle lit, they don't like what they see and Amiga Inc comes along trying their damnedest to blow it out.

In the end, I think you and I are a lot more alike than certain people are willing to admit.  I do not wish anyone to fail but unlike most on the Amiga zealot side, the difference is that I'm not going to pretend that the smoke AI is constantly trying to "blow up my arse" doesn't smell like s***.

Wayne