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AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« on: April 18, 2002, 02:00:16 PM »
Here's a non-technical FAQ about the proposed coldfire-based Amiga by PJ Matthews

The NON Technical FAQ to the coldfire based AMIGA.

Version 1 – I respond

The following is quick FAQ that answers the most common questions that people have asked in the last 24 hours (had a big response).

Q – So what on earth is the coldfire AMIGA project?
A – It’s a project to move the AMIGA to the 68k series natural successor, the coldfire. Now we are planning to use version 4 of the processor that is naturally very compatible with the 68k as it features most of the instruction set from the 68k.

Q – So will all my existing software work?
A – Most of it, I’m betting almost every piece of Workbench software you have will run. Most of your games should too. We get around the missing instructions by using Motorola’s own emulation layer. This layer patches 68k commands to their coldfire alternatives without too much loss in speed. Hopefully the only thing you’ll notice is a very fast AMIGA. The downside is that some games will run far faster than they every should of done. Users of the 060 will notice some older games now play at an amazing rate, so much so that they are unplayable (would you like a list of such games) – this will be even more apparent in the coldfire but most games should run fine.

Q – So this a brand new AMIGA?
A – It will be pretty much, but to begin with we are working on the accelerator cards for the A1200/4000 and possibly other machines.

Q – Why not just go straight to the AMIGA clone and scrap the accelerator card?
A – Development is the simple answer. The accelerator board we are working on will serve us by turning our existing AMIGAs into development machines for testing purposes, much before the final AMIGA is assembled. You guys will have the chance to buy such a board that will mean a very fast traditional AMIGA for you all at a reasonable price. Should be our chance to move SDRAM to the traditional classic AMIGAs as well.

Q – So then after that you’ll start on the completely new AMIGA?
A – Not start, we have in effect started now on the new AMIGA, but it will be a background project. Our main problem was supply of the AGA chipset but this seems to have been solved in a big way. My personal preference was to purchase the rights to own/manufacture a batch of the hombre/integrated AGA chipset as this can just be remanufactured again and again where as the AGA chipset can’t but they seem to have a big supply anyway. Problem solved.

Q – The AGA chipset is dated.
A – Yep, its there for compatibility, stick with your regular graphics card or an alternative GPU for everything else. One possibility is to raise the AGA chipsets CHIP RAM limitations above 2mb. Most signs say we can’t do this, however a jumper on the AMIGA 4000s motherboard suggests this may well be possible, but no promises.

Q – Will I need new ROMs?
A – I don’t see why you would, the system will think it has a true 68k CPU at its heart so you won’t need new ROMs and I’m betting a lot of your existing hardware will work also including the new PPC on a PCI card for the A4000.

Q – Why bother – the AMIGA One is just around the corner?
A – True but its been around the corner for a while now and OS 4.0 doesn’t seem to be exactly racing along does it? Our machine is different. We don’t move across to the PPC although this could have easily been done, we could have built our own AMIGA One motherboard based around Motorola’s reference designs but both myself and Oliver feel this is the better approach and will benefit you all far more, cost should also be kept down – have you seen the price of the AMIGA One?

Q – Take it you won’t be buying an AMIGA One?
A – May do, I feel the AMIGA One is flawed but fun anyway, this is my personal opinion by the way.

Q – Your not going to have OS 4.0, you’ll be way behind.
A – OS 4.0 Won’t be a leap forward, its just going to be a move to the PPC platform. Don’t expect anything like OS 3.9 guys or you’ll be in for a shock when your AMIGA One and OS 4.0 beta arrive on your desk. If there’s enough demand an OS 4.0 could be moved across or we could simply work with AROS that is our best option. Until then kick 3.1 and OS 3.9 should be fine.

Q – Okay once you’ve made the development board/accelerator card what sort of clone AMIGA will we see?
A – A few, an A1200 style machine is proving popular with you guys but I suspect an ATX board (perhaps micro) would be best for the first board. It could have PCI slots and AGP or a much needed update to the Zorro. This is a bit of step away yet. One interesting design would be to mount the AGA chipset on a separate card that can simply be replaced when no longer needed or if you don’t want backwards compatibility simply add your own Voodoo or ATI. Nothings set in stone.

Q – Can we have an AMIGA laptop?
A – Why not! There has been a lot of wishful people asking for such a device. Its more than possible and we would just stick a board in Taiwanese OEM case (as used by Compaq, IBM etc) or design our own. I know Oliver is very much interested in such a device – you may wish to contact him.

Q – How can I help?
A – In many ways. We are looking for people who are good with PCB design, a head for software or hardware or simply guys and gals who want to purchase a Coldfire processor or two. Once we have 24 the fun starts. I’m going to approach the guys on the Atari project as they haven’t even purchased any cold fires yet and may well buy a few at the same time.

Can I just say thank you for all the support and the criticism is also proving useful. We do know there has a been a coldfire type card that was almost finished but wasn’t release. My understanding was that this didn’t use the V4 Coldfire like we are wanting to use, so ours will be faster and thanks to Motorola, just as compatible. No pre orders please, just buy a processor if you want to help. You could keep it until we release the PCB for the accelerator, use it in your own projects or just mount it on the wall. The CPU is about £25 per chip.

PJ Matthews
 

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2002, 02:47:05 PM »
I think your in for a suprise when it lands on your desk - OS 5.0 is the biggy. Development will go ahead due to the sheer number of e-mails I've had (and Oliver has had) asking for us to continue with this project. The AMIGA community has spoken, paticuarly on ANN. Now AMIGA One is great and I'll order one, along with OS 4.0 but it ain't be great to begin with, I'm beginning to wonder just how far OS 4.0 is, but it will be great when we see it huh. I think AROS is great though, why AMIGA Inc just didn't have those guys move it I will never know.

Also some AMIGA users have raised some very valid points - Do you think the AMIGA One is AMIGA Incs priority? Nope - they arn't developing the board and they certainly arn't nmoving the OS. Quite rightfully they are dealing with the AMIGA De which is great and has caused some stir amongst the general world but our AMIGA One hasn't really. Now I understand all you AMIGA One supporters, myself and Oliver like it too but don't want to see the classic AMIGA die, we want to see it grow and thrive and so do most of you guys.

As for the the CDTV talk to Oliver, the CDTV nut. His web site is great www.cdtv.org.uk and he even owns a prototype CDTV.
 

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2002, 02:57:07 PM »
woops - so much for my sources - lol
My only real complaint with OS 4.0 is the lack of a move forward - its more of a step side wides, theres nothing hugely new that the AMIGA community has't already patched. Also am I right in understanding AMIGA Inc intend to develope OS 5.0 themselves?

This is getting off topic. Oh and good news we have a manufacture already!
lol
 

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2002, 02:58:29 PM »
Oh and while your here - WHERES OUR SCREEN SHOTS
 

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2002, 03:06:45 PM »
Where's your LICENSE from Amiga, Inc.?
 

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2002, 03:19:05 PM »
No worry in disagreeing and this should read - no big jump like 3.9 was. What I'm trying to say is you'll notice little difference. But this isn't the point, the vast majority of you guys will go for the AMIGA One, well me too - I'll own one and OS 4.0 and then 5.0. I will also own one of these, a coldfire based AMIGA to run my older software and hopefully newer stuff too.

Now Hyperion its great to see OS 4.0 coming out, and it'll be the OS we needed for the past 5 years or so. But - please release those screen shots or atleast be honest about why you havn't supplied them. If that guys still ill then he must be half dead - I appreciate your GUI isn't anyway near ready, but even a DOS window would suffice! I also appreciate that most of the hardwork is shifing the core of the OS, thats one of the reasons why any other processor other than the coldfire is mostly out of bounds. You guys have seen what sorts of problems a commerical company had, imagine what we would have? This is largely a hobby machine as many of you have put it, but we feel we have a large appeal to the AMIGA community and your e-mails certainly say so. An offer from a major company in assisting us is also going to prove useful.

An accelerator card won't take us two years to make, a whole new AMIGA will. Yes this is a project that should of been around years ago but remember the V4 wasn't around years ago, its all possible because of this CPU.

I'm not telling you to wait for our system, sure go by AMIGA One and join the PPC world. I do promise the rest of you who want this system/accelerator that we won't fail you, the AMIGA community has been failed too many times, we simply won't do it.

Goodluck to Hyperion and AMIGA Inc (paticuarly with the player) but we also wish to keep the classic AMIGA alive, its been with us for too long to let go of, and again the e-mails have justified this.

Thankyou to everyone who wanted processors, we are nearly there - possibly past there - I'll have to figure it out.

And also a the end of the day WE ARE NOT A COMPANY. WE DO NOT HAVE LOTS OF MONEY. WE ARE USING ALL OUR SPARE TIME FOR YOU! WE ARE NOT GETTING PAID FOR THIS! And as many of you know, its not cheap to develope such a device. Theres my 450 cents.

PEEJ
PJ
www.walibe.com
 

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2002, 03:20:34 PM »
Eh, EyeAm, your back?

Going in via the trapdoor slot won't require a licence, oddly enough. A licence this open would require only licenced joysticks, mice, printers, modems etc. could be plugged into the system.

Also, a full functioning MoBo, wouldn't either.. just the software stored on the roms.
 

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2002, 03:21:01 PM »
Quote
Where's your LICENSE from AMIGA, Inc?


Nope don't need one, this is an add on card. For a whole new AMIGA? Yes we'll need one but we'll leave that until then or for our possible manufacture/retailer to work out.

PJ
 

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2002, 03:46:43 PM »
I agree with you that the classic line of Amigas should not die out, but it should not be the platform for new software products. A coldfire Accel-card should do, don't start producing a new Amiga, based on outdated hardware. We need powerful hardware for state-of-the-art-apps. No "68k@66 MHz" processor.
I already hate actual hardware for the classic Amiga like the Z4 board or some silly clockport extensions. There are only few products of high quality. Look @ the PC-market. Every board and card is of high quality (at least those of a certain price range) and you can't blow off your system only by putting a cable on wrong pins.

As conclusion:
We need a mainboard that is tested, debugged and quality approved with a state-of-the-art-processor (G3/G4 PPC) on to which you can switch every good hardware such as graphics-, sound-cards, etc. (remeber: it's not PC-hardware, it's only GOOD HARDWARE)

That's my opinion. I won't spend any money on the Classic Amiga-line.

GREETZ!
 

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2002, 03:56:27 PM »
Very good point and I'm glad you can see the purpose of our card and eventually motherboard. People are interested in this equipment for many reasons and alot of them will be AMIGA One users so don't think this going to pinch away AMIGA One users. This isn't true. This is a classic AMIGA, the very same we grew up with, its just a few hundred mhz faster thats all.

PJ
 

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2002, 04:05:57 PM »
Very good point and I'm glad you can see the purpose of our card and eventually motherboard. People are interested in this equipment for many reasons and alot of them will be AMIGA One users so don't think this going to pinch away AMIGA One users. This isn't true. This is a classic AMIGA, the very same we grew up with, its just a few hundred mhz faster thats all.

PJ
 

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2002, 04:31:39 PM »
I didn't say OS 4.0 was rubbish just that it was a bit slow coming along and at the end of the day for OS 4.0 it won't make much difference you own an AMIGA One or a classic AMIGA. Its got alot of parts that were previously available for the classic AMIGA added to it, I can't wait to see OS 5.0. Its great to see AMIGA finally go PowerPC and so I don't have to say it again - THIS IS NOT MEAN TO COMPETE WITH THE AMIGA ONE. This is to keep the classic AMIGA alive, and I know most users will own both.

Alot of people have asked is the AMIGA One really an AMIGA? It does't even have a kickstart and yet can use the AMIGA name. Well in my opinion the AMIGA One is an AMIGA just as much as that emulated AMIGA running on your PC or your faithful A1200.

Keep the comments coming.
 

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2002, 06:40:57 PM »
Commerically successful yes. It has the possibility to be more than an AMIGA. Because of the newer processor and hopefully anl all new motherboard theres no reason why such a device can't be used for many different things. Set top boxes, mission critical devices and more. Its ability to operate without a large operating system (you can stick AROS on a ROM for example) also lends itself to such use.

Within the AMIGA market itself, providing the price is right it could sell very well indeed to those wishing to keep their classic route alive. On the high street it meets a niche market. It has a relatively fast processor plus a collection of older software which is largely free of charge. It could be the new AMIGA 500 in the 21st century. There is no replacement out there for the A500/A1200. Tell me another machine that you can buy new that can do what they did at that time?

Retro computing is fashinable and if high street marketed or in the right magazines you'll get alot of interest and the more powerful processor means a very good Internet capable computer thats just as at home as a PC when writing documents. If you change the GPU then you end up with a system rivaling recent games consoles but thats another story.

Thankyou for your interest
 

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2002, 11:19:10 PM »
I'd imagine if put in a production run perhaps £100-£180. That would be with a processor, AGA chipset, chipram and some other stuff - but this is all guess work. I hope we can get a basic board under £100!

The Accelerators will be first out though - we'll try and keep those as cheap as possible.

PJ
 

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Re: AMIGA Coldfire FAQ Version 1 - Non Technical
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2002, 11:41:25 PM »
Not valid - the emulation layer is in ROM so is active from the start, commands are patched from the start - I'm taking going through whats patched and whats not as we speak and will list my findings on my web site - I'll e-mail you with what I have and you can see wat you think.

PJ Matthews