The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?

[jarrody2k]

Hi folks,

With Bill's recent post there was a point of ridicule at Amiga Inc's requirement for a hardware partner to have >= 500 000 USD of revenue to be considered.  Given the Amiga publics' general evaluation of the Amiga technologies some thought this request was a little smug.  I, however, think this is a reasonable if not underestimated expectation of a company that is willing to roll-out and support its own computer hardware.  Even the big hardware companies can't get it right, releasing motherboards with a plethora of hardware bugs and software workarounds which slow the system down.

But I digress.  What is more interesting is the public evaluation of the worth of Amiga technologies.  Clearly a lot of people base their evaluations that profits will only come from the existing base of Amiga enthusiasts.  Perhaps there are opportunities waiting to be exposed in the private sector?  Perhaps we are being narrow-minded?

What are your thoughts on how much the Amiga technologies are worth?  What else could they be used for?  Is there even any scope for the AmigaOS in the new millenium?

Can Amiga Inc expect a potential hardware partner with 500 thousand dollar minimum revenue?

Jarrod.

-Edit- Sorry, added an extra 0 to the price!

[jarrody2k]

redrumloa wrote:

The $5 000 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?

The brand name if put up for auction would get somewhere in the low 5 figures. Maybe $10,000 - $20,000.

Heheh, harsh!

At that estimate, maybe Bill should have been happy with the $70 000 he got from the liquidated inventory after all?

[jarrody2k]

Ilwrath wrote:

I believe the actual number stated was $500,000 USD.  Not nearly as outlandish.  However, that mark still puts anything "Amiga" branded outside the means and scale of the hobby community.

Cheers for the correction.  I originally read it correctly and then somehow mixed it up when I was writing the post.

I agree that the hobby market is out of the question.  I don't think it really was in the question.  But I really can't imagine why anyone would bother with developing an OS (and then building another) unless there is some sort of marketable aspect of the technology.. some way that current big market players could utilise its functionality that they either can't with other technologies *or* can't for at least the same price.

So Bill is either very brave or very very stupid?

What *is* he trying to sell?

Also, does anyone know anything about the IBM 'Arctic' platform he mentioned?

Jarrod.

[jarrody2k]

csixty4 wrote:
With only basic memory protection, its only saving grace in the increasingly networked world we live in is its obscurity.

I don't think memory protection is really a defining issue.  Only really setting a few coprocessor registers for each context change.  The real issue, from memory, was cache coherency due to a limitation of the Articia chip.  This would only mean that the cache is flushed before a context switch. (Modified cache lines written back.  Unmodified lines dirtied).  This would slow down switching between threads, hampering Amiga's fine reputation for fast thread changes, but it isn't going to shake up our networked world.  Especially if a hardware solution exists later down the track that eliminates this problem.

But then I don't have an entire understanding of OS kernel implementation.  Feel free to correct me where I'm wrong

Jarrod.

[jarrody2k]

Piru wrote:

The real issue, from memory, was cache coherency due to a limitation of the Articia chip. This would only mean that the cache is flushed before a context switch.

That's nonsense. The broken articia cache coherency affect DMA transfers (cache isn't always invalidated, thus as a workaround with CachePreDMA/CachePostDMA is needed). Normally with fully cache snooping hardware (such as Articia was supposed to be), no such CachePreDMA/CachePostDMA magic is required.

Hi Piru,

No need to go on the offensive about my 'nonsense' and such.  I did say I was a bit misinformed and I was indeed expecting your tech-savvy corrections  Which makes me wonder now, what exactly is wrong with AmigaOS4's memory protection?

Jarrod.

[jarrody2k]

redrumloa wrote:
@stopthegop

There seems to be 2 different themes here.

1) Amiga Inc's licensing requirements. Bill Mc has stated this to be $500,000, a company must be grossing this much to request a license.

2) What people think Amiga Inc as a company themelves are worth at this point in time.

The one theme of licensing costs pre-empts the one question:  What's the value of Amiga technology?

Jarrod.

[jarrody2k]

Tomas wrote:

The brand name if put up for auction would get somewhere in the low 5 figures. Maybe $10,000 - $20,000.

I honestly think the brand name would sell for more than that.
The Amiga brand might not be as strong as the commodore brand, but alot of gamers still have found memories of Amiga games.

That is true.  The games industry could leverage an Amiga brand license for retro releases on either modern platforms like PSP or even custom devices like Minimig.  A market that is alive and profitable at the current time.

Jarrod.

[jarrody2k]

stopthegop wrote:
How much money are we talking here?  Five hundred thousand, fifty thousand, or five thousand?  Didn't follow the line about corrections and correcting the corrected corrections, etc..  Also, dollars or euros?

The stakes have been lowered, its now officially a 500 000 USD question.  I apologise for any inconvenience

Jarrod.

[jarrody2k]

redfox wrote:
An outfit like BestBuy or Wal~Mart or Sears (Canada) or Bay (Hudson's Bay Company, Canada) would easily make this kind of revenue.  So what if part of the revenue is from pots and pans, clothing, furniture, or large appliances (washing machines, clothes dryers, stoves, refrigerators).  Those companies could sell Amiga products along with the rest of the consumer electronics.  Maybe Troika, ACK, etc. could hook up with one of these large sales outlets.  Then all they need is a business plan and budget for the Amiga product line.

---
redfox

Wouldn't it be a more obvious to source funding from a venture capatilist?  Walmart would hardly look at selling something unless it exists already.  Of course they are at the end of the production line.

Jarrod.

[jarrody2k]

stone wrote:

The games industry could leverage an Amiga brand license for retro releases on either modern platforms like PSP

and where would that bring us?

To revenue

Jarrod.

[jarrody2k]

stopthegop wrote:
@Stoned:

I totally agree with your point about the corrosive effect defeatism is having on the community and the future (yes, future) of Amiga OS.  There is a way out of this hole;  whats lacking is the collective will to make it happen.  I see the word "can't" in the forum way too often.  Usually when someone write's "can't", what they're really saying is "won't".

This really strikes a chord with me.  I really do believe Amiga could have done with Bill McEwen's business savvy and stubborn marketing at the very beginning of the last decade.

You can do a lot with very little... often you need to discover that big things come in small packages.  Or at least you must have the persuasive power to convince the big boys you've got something big.

Romanticism aside: Really, what do you think McEwen is marketing that is big enough to attract the attention of established market players?

Jarrod.

[jarrody2k]

stopthegop wrote:
The marketing is easy.  Hire the experts.  Bill Gates, more than anyone else in history, has demonstrated the power of good advertising.  Marketing is best left to the professionals.  Regardless of what it costs, a good marketing strategy is worth it.  Sign up for the old platinum account at Ogilvy & Mather (or other top firm) shovel a truckload of cash into a "flood the airwaves" style marketing campaign, and you're set.  You could be peddling total garbage (Like Gates) and it would still reap 7 figure sales.  The public (especially American) have proved this time and again.  

Now this is what people seem to miss.  And its mainly the purists who see Amiga as OS4.  With enough funding trash can turn into treasure and sure as hell Amiga is looking trashy right now.

With fresh marketing, a new box and perhaps only backed up by a simple idea that, perhaps doesn't even do something new, but perhaps makes something easier, you'll see it snapped up and incorporated into lives like the DVD player or iPod.  It all smells a little bit like convergence... but lets face it, iPod are making loads of cash out of what once sounded like one of the biggest cons of the IT boom.  (iPod = the portable storage, music player, movie player, podcasts, photo album... mobiles = voice, video, camera, GPS etc.)

A company with a fresh idea, coupled with an inhouse scalable operating system plus links with hardware companies who can build systems for you... you could manufacture and deploy a new device with reduced licensing cost.  Its the perfect springboard.  Is this what Bill McEwen is trying to shape?

You ask on what hardware a new Amiga might run?  I myself favor completely redesigned hardware made to look and "feel" like a classic Amiga -- not some stock, "me too" vanilla PPC board with an "Amiga" bios.  A radical new design, something totally outside the box -- so much so that the it would be impossible for the inbread technology press to ignore it.

A flashy design saving an embattled brand of computing.  Can you say Apple?

Jarrod.

[jarrody2k]

recidivist wrote:
   4. Have a bunch of people with no access to relevant  information engage in wild speculative arguments.Ignore them.

I'm sorry recidivist, but you seem to imply that speculation is idiotic.  But really, if all we had to hear all day was science fact, we'd be bored out of our brains and the tabloids would be out of business and Amiga.orgs postings would reduce to half (though this is a speculative and contentious argument also)

(start off topic philosophical rant)
Hell, we all die anyway and all our accumulated knowledge (at least to my knowledge anyway) will likely cease to exist simultaneously.  In this knowledge perhaps we should just end it all now and avoid the redundancy?
(finish off topic philosophical rant)

But again, what fun is that?

Jarrod.

[jarrody2k]

stopthegop wrote:
I want a computer not mother-in-law in a box.  Sorry, I'm just not into that scene at all.  I think Apple has nothing but contempt for its users, frankly.  I have some family members who are recovering Mac users.  Not sure what they have now..  Anyway, I digress..

It's not what I would want either.  But, money is money.  We are talking about an asking price of 'Amiga'. Anything that would improve the marketability of Amiga technologies would be a key to a greater worth.

And if Bill McEwen would even bother spending his life energy on promoting the 'Amiga' then he *must believe* he has something worth... not thousands, not hundreds of thousands, but millions!

I guess I just wanted some lateral thinking and creativity as to what he has conceptualised in that noggin' of his as to how his company could be more valuable than the average Amiga user thinks it is.

Answers seemed to be heavily focused on the current state of AmigaOS4 or the yet forthcoming OS5... not how he could sell these developing technologies in a way that is bigger.

He may have just what we see or perhaps there is something more up his sleeve... either way, good luck to ol' Bill.

Long live entrepreneurialism and foolhardiness!

Jarrod.