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Offline NewRevolutionTopic starter

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Amiga Platform
« on: June 09, 2003, 03:44:36 AM »
Hi guys, I've been away from Amiga for a while - just looking at articles now and then where Amiga promise gold and green forests (a saying in Norway) and delivers nothing :-(

But I want to get back into Amiga and see if there is anything we can do. Amiga lives for only one reason (I believe)  - and that is us, the Amiga community.

So to the core of this thread :-D

Motorola has stoped developing the 680xx processors right? So what new processor technology is the new OS4 built on? What language is used? I've seen there are no SDKs out which is really bad. If Amiga wants to rise, they need the supporting community to start developing software for OS4. What is the point of a new OS if there are no applications available for it?

The most important applications (I believe) are: a "office" packages like Star Office and (urk) Windows Office, multimedia programs and computer games :-p

The OS must be cross platform compatible. It must be able to read / write files from other systems (Microsoft, Mac, Linux / Unix).

Open Source!!! Linux is now a serious threat to Windows - only because of open source concept. I believe that developing programs with the open source principle  is a good start for the rise of Amiga.

In the end; no one wants to use a system that cannot be used with other systems. People must feel that they can "identify" the new Amiga system with allready existing OS/GUI platforms. Preventing users to go through a new learning curb will highly improve the attitude towards the Amiga OS (and GUI).


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Offline NewRevolutionTopic starter

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Re: Amiga Platform
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2003, 04:08:26 AM »
Thanks.

Still, I must be lagging a bit behind.....
What is IIRC and gcc   :-?

Open source or not doesn't really matter.

So if I get a hold of a PowerPC based (60x/G3/G4) system (e.g. Mac) - I can just start programming? Or can i develop applications for Amiga on my PC?
I recon as loong as the coding isn't hardware specific, it doesnt really matter. But if I start programming against file system, memory etc - I should have a Amiga platform.
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Offline NewRevolutionTopic starter

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Re: Amiga Platform
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2003, 08:24:54 AM »
dammy: Do you have any experience with AROS? Because it looks interesting. Just wondering how compatible it is with my (now about 10 years old) Amiga programs like Opus, DiskMaster and all the other programs I can't remember. And games offcourse!

Targhan: wanna elaborate on  Amithlon, AF,  Pegasos and MorphOS?
These are all new HW / SW to me.
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Offline NewRevolutionTopic starter

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Re: Amiga Platform
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2003, 11:25:08 AM »
(And suddenly I feel like Frodo inside Mordor) :-D

Before I write some more, If I click 'post new thread', will a new msg come under 'Amiga Platforms'? Or do I have to click 'Reply' for that to happend?

Katchung! I'm away for an hour and I can spend an hour reading replys when I get back! I like it - it's healthy!

Alright..... where to start  (in no particular order) ;-)

: : mikeymike : :
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In the end; no one wants to use a system that cannot be used with other systems.

* That's a very broad term. Care to elaborate? *


I'll try. I guess a lot of what I am thinking of is done on the application side. A word processor can read documents from Mac, MS Office, Lotus etc. When AOL develops their messenger, it can be implemented on a Amiga OS. When applications are developed, they should not have to redesign the whole program to make it wotk on Amiga OS. Amiga OS must be open (enough)  to allow other organization develop applications that can be run on different platforms with minor modifications.


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I don't think users should have to learn everything there is to learn about a platform (...) It really gets my back up when I've told the same person for the fiftieth time how to find the Control Panel on Win9x and they still have to ask.

Ah - but why do you think the user had to be told 15 times? Besides that it might be u explaining badly... nah just kidding :-D but seriously, why couldn't the user learn it the second or the third time? Some people are less computer litterate than others. But could it have been the design of the system? Could Microsoft have designed it in a way that would make it easier to find the control panel?

We have to remember that what is so obvious for us, might not be obvious at all for someone else. Even if they are used to computers.

When I was mentioning the learning curve - I agree. Users are not to become gurus in the OS.  But the time it takes them to approach the system for the very first time and perform a given task, should be drastically reduced after two or three tries.
Now that most users are used to windows based OS's, they should quite quickly get used to the GUI. When microsoft went from Win 3.11 to Win 95, they conducted a pretty big usability test to come up with the Win 95 design. An interesting article about the test, can be found HERE and it's worth while reading if you are planning to develop a new OS / GUI for Amiga.

Right, who was next? Ah, yeah - entering the dragons cave! :-D

Does anybody remember the 80s and two companies called IBM and Microsoft? For a very loooong time, they absolutely REFUSED to work "together". As the history goes, we the user population, started demanding. In the 70s and partly the 80s, the programmers told the customers how the applications should be designed. Today, WE tell the designers and programmers how we want it to work.
I cannot remember who, but there has been (and probably still is) feuds between graphic card producers.

What I'm getting at, is that if Mr. Bill Buck and Mr. Bill McEwen (hey - at least the got ONE thing in common) are going to follow the road they are heading, they will run Amiga down the gutter... again.  I guess Amiga Inc. sits with the ace by having  some of the intellectual property rights. MorphOS should make their system compatible with AmigaOne. It will only strengthen their market share and support - but Amiga Inc. must not charge redicules royalties from MorphOS (I think that is how it works?)

Personaly I hope they can join forces. Bring the best from MorphOS and AmigaOne (OS4) together and build something that will blow standard PC's away!

If they keep the battle up, I think AROS might walk away as a winner!

My personal opinion is that there are no WORKAROUNDs. If a chip has a bug or a "minor defect" FIX IT. Don't build a system on something that might crash. There are plenty of developers that want to create SW for OS4 - but if a faulty chip makes creates more work.........

Thanks guys for all the imput. Guess I better start some research.
Hmm.. how many here is actually from Down Under? I keep seeing signs of it all the time  8-)
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Offline NewRevolutionTopic starter

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Re: Amiga Platform
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2003, 02:09:11 PM »
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(...) People who don't know how to program (myself included) don't have a clue how hard something is to implement, and whether it's even worth implementing because of what it might do to the flexibility of the platform.


Exactly - that's when they go to the negotiation table. The stakeholders normally doesn't care HOW technology is implemeted, as long as they get what they want. And if that is not possible, they may compromise  functionality for perfomance or vica versa.

Whenever I try to do something on a Mac OS - I always struggle a little bit. It's new to me and a bit different from Windows. If I was going to use a Amiga OS - I bet I would have the same problems.

But still, all three are a bit similar. So it wouldn't take me long to get into it.
If we are to reach new user groups, they must not be daunted by the new Amiga OS. It's always a bit scary to try something new - and we can't rely on the Hard Core amiga users forever.

But then again, what will the new Amiga platform be used for? Multimedia boxes? TV set top boxes? If MorpOS or Amiga Inc. are targeting their user groups, I guess it wouldn't matter too much for new "inexperienced" users.



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Offline NewRevolutionTopic starter

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Re: Amiga Platform
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2003, 01:17:12 AM »
@ Psy

Don't we all love politics... :-P

The idea concept for the alliance might have seemed good in the begining - and then they probably signed contracts. Amiga Inc. is shipping AmigaOne with Linux. And what is that? Just another computer with Linux  - why call it AmigaOne? Amiga is the OS, not the wrapping.
And doesn't Eyetech have any other customers? Or are they betting everything on one horse? In that case, I think the alliance will be split sooner then they hope.

I still think Amiga Inc. has taken the wrong approach to OS4. I daresay that what Amiga Inc is facing today, is what M$ was facing in the 90s, when they changed from Windows 3.11 to Win95. Such a drastic change is something Amiga Inc. should be looking at. Develop a new platform, but yet have the essence of the good old workbench (3.1)

Of what I have surmised so far, both MorphOS and OS4 will be hardware dependent. That means I have to buy that exact motherboard to make it run. And if the motherboard producer is just a small timer - those boards will cost a fortune , have bad support and be difficult to get a hold on. It's not like all computer stores will start importing them :-(

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Offline NewRevolutionTopic starter

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Re: Amiga Platform
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2003, 04:03:51 AM »
Ah! So Eyetech, if they are lucky, are getting it in both sack and bag (as we say). That means non-Amiga programmers (here: Linux) can start developing HW propritary applications. Not only will they try to gather the Amiga community, but they will start attracting the Linux community as well. Now that is a pretty large user group.
PPC = PowerPC right? And PowerPC runs on the 60x/G3/G4 chipset right?

So what kind of chipset is in the Pegasos boards?

As for Hyperion and their OS4; if the OS is going to be HW dependent, how could they start without Eyetechs PPC boards?

It seems to me that Amiga Inc has been rushing a bit. Amiga has been behind the curtains for the last decade, I don't think a couple of more years would have mattered much. Especially if that would have improved the comming OS4.  But as mentioned before, it's more important to get the core functionality to work first, then spice up the OS.
I'm just afraid that OS4 might not be so attractive  when it is lounched into the business world! Mostly because it does not really contain any new features... right?

And Tonyw - you are right. It is good to have a "objective" discussion where we can discuss viewpoints without any flamation :-)
Before the start of this thread, I felt a bit lost. Now though, there have been so many quality feedback, that I feel pretty up to date.
Still, I got left to make up my mind about MorphOS and Amiga Inc. And I guess the only way to do that, is to get hands on experience......

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Offline NewRevolutionTopic starter

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Re: Amiga Platform
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2003, 04:09:39 AM »
I knew it! a few years ago I heard rumors that Amiga had been bough by another company. Then I read that they where gonna use Amiga technology in set top boxes (which are for TVs right) - got a bit disapointed with that. Not fully using the Amigas potentiallity.

And what is PowerUP and WarpUP?

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