Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: A500 disk drive stopped!  (Read 15530 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline GadgetUK

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 89
    • Show all replies
Re: A500 disk drive stopped!
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2013, 02:29:25 PM »
PM sent!
 

Offline GadgetUK

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 89
    • Show all replies
Re: A500 disk drive stopped!
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2013, 02:35:59 PM »
Just looking at my notes from when I used to repair Amigas.  If there is a fault we might be on the right tracks looking at Agnus.  I've had one with incorrect CSYNC before and it was Agnus, although there are a few other things can cause it including an 74 series chip, and a resistor pack.  Anyway, it's all speculation at this stage.
 

Offline GadgetUK

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 89
    • Show all replies
Re: A500 disk drive stopped!
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2013, 03:56:12 PM »
Quote from: Laughy;730285
Sent the photos off to you!

I've had a good look at those close ups, everything looks good, no obvious signs of damaged resistors, chips or capacitors. The ROM looks like it has a patch in the bottom left of it where moisture has been on it but I doubt that has anything to do with the problem. You could try taking the ROM out and putting it back in just to make sure but typically you would get the red screen error if anything was wrong with the ROM.
 
The Agnus is an 8372A, which is the 1Mb chip RAM Agnus so you must have a rev 6a / 7 board probably, unless someone has replaced the Agnus before - but from looking at where pin 1 is I suspect it is an original chip on rev 6a / 7 board. It doesnt look pushed all the way in to me, I wonder if someones done the double sided sticky pad job on it. I recently bought an A500 where someone had removed the agnus, damaged the socket and then 'stuck' it back in the socket with a double sided pad, which is fine for a period of time but it means the chip doesnt sit as deep into the socket as it should. CSYNC, crashes and floppy drive errors can be all caused by the Agnus not sitting correctly (or having an internal fault).
 
I've rechecked regards -12v and the minus 12v shouldn't affect anything other than comms (serial port and parallel port) so I wouldnt worry about that for now.
 
Is it a UK console that you've had for years, not a US version or something?
 
You can typically pick up an Agnus 8372A for between £5 and £10 on EBAY, but I don't see any UK sellers at the moment. The difficulty with the Agnus is removing it very very very carefully in such a way that you don't damage the socket. Ideally you should use a PLCC extractor tool but they aren't always easy to use. The alternative and dangerous (if you dont be careful and dont know what you are doing) method is to use a jewlers screwdriver (very very thin screwdriver and put it under the little hole (looking at your photo) in the top right and lever under the chip a little (and I mean a little) bit, like a quarter of a millimeter of movement, then do the same with the bottom right hole / gap / slot call it what you will, again levering just a tiny tiny amount, repeat that process 4 or 5 times for each of the 2 corners and provided you hardly use any force at all it will lift out.
 
If the socket has become brittle (which they do over time) and you press too hard you will break the socket, which means desoldering the 84 pin PLCC socket and putting a new one on. I've done this recently for the 500 I bought - it was in a shocking state.
 
I think you should try another TV to see what if anything is different on the video outputs, check the pins of the video sockets on the back of the amiga as well to make sure none are bent and shorting on each other etc - i've seen that before from people ramming in the modulator when its not straight etc. If there's no difference on another TV, and pressing firmly on Agnus to double check its totally making contact (you could start the A500 up whilst you are pressing down firmly on it with your thumb), and you've not got another power supply to try (to 100% rule it out), then you are looking at a faulty chip or other component, so its then a question of how you go about getting replacement bits of EBAY etc, or just get a working / semi working 500 off EBAY as a doner.
 
Do you live in the UK or elsewhere?
 
EDIT: Removing Agnus - on your photo the slots to get under the chip are TOP LEFT and BOTTOM RIGHT, not TOP RIGHT!!
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 04:04:23 PM by GadgetUK »
 

Offline GadgetUK

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 89
    • Show all replies
Re: A500 disk drive stopped!
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2013, 04:06:38 PM »
Just looking at one of the pics again, can I see what looks like corrosion in the bottom right hand side of one of the pics?  One with Agnus, in the bottom right theres a 74F244 and a black resistor pack next to it, the legs of that chip look a bit brown but its not very clear.  Might be an idea to take a picture of that area there where the expansion memory card plugs into.
 

Offline GadgetUK

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 89
    • Show all replies
Re: A500 disk drive stopped!
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2013, 04:13:39 PM »
Spotted something else as well - See the first picture with Denise, above Densise is 74HC245, and to the left hand side of it, there's a capacitor C40 (yellow), and to the left of that are 2 tracks on the circuit board. See the very left one, I cannot tell from the picture if that's corrosion or not, can you take a look at it and see if it looks damaged there, or is it a plastic coating or something?
 
Your multimeter should have a continuity test mode hopefully? You can check that the track is not damaged by putting meter onto continuity test mode, put one wire on a contact that one side of the track goes to, and your other prong on something connected to the other side of the track. You need to look at the board first to follow where it goes to - usually a solder point on the board or a chip pin.
 
EDIT: Hmmm, the plot thickens.  Looking at that area of the board its not clear to me 100% but I am wondering if that capacitor has shed its load of electrolyte on the board - it could be that capacitor.  Please take a close look where i've said to check that track and see around the big purple / blue capacitor above, is there gunk around it on the board?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2013, 04:16:22 PM by GadgetUK »
 

Offline GadgetUK

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 89
    • Show all replies
Re: A500 disk drive stopped!
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2013, 04:39:21 PM »
Quote from: Laughy;730297
Here is that area around the expansion port: Think it may have been in shadow in earlier pic.
 
[ATTACH]2812[/ATTACH]
 
I'll mail you a clearer one.
 
It is a 6A board, pushed the Agnus as hard as I dare to. As far as I know, this is the first time it's been opened up. Security tags were still on it. This was a friend of mine's machine, we played on it back in the day, he gave it to me when he was chucking it out and it's been in a box for at least 5 years.
 
My own Amiga was lost by being thrown away by a family member, along with all games and a great comp pro extra!
 
I'm in the UK, in Essex.

Thanks, they look OK.  See some of my other posts above ^
 

Offline GadgetUK

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 89
    • Show all replies
Re: A500 disk drive stopped!
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2013, 05:00:48 PM »
Faults
------
Modulator doesn't seem to be outputting RF signal at all?
Composite Mono works OK, but you mentioned its not stable - could you explain what you see?
Floppy seems problematic, or at least it seems to crash when loading games with the power LED flashing.
What we know:-
--------------
Same behaviour without Floppy Drive connected.
Same behaviour without Keyboard connected.
Same behaviour without RAM expansion connected.
Same behaviour with CIA chips swapped around.
Chips seated correctly.
Doesn't appear to be any visible damage - have you looked underneath the board to see if anything looks burnt or damaged at all?
+5v and +12v appear acceptable, but we don't know whether theres noise or ripples on those lines, lets assume the PSU is OK because I would expect different behaviour than no video output and floppy problems.
 
Your initial post was that you had floppy problems, and mentioned the power light flashing - we need to expand a little if we can, what games do you have to test with, load them up, see how far they get before you get the flashing light and what happens on screen then - does it go to the 'Guru Meditation' screen or what?
If you leave the Amiga powered on without a disk, do you get the Kickstart hand image up OK and does it look corrupt in anyway graphically? At that point you should hear the drive keep clicking as its looking for a disk - do you hear that? If you then leave it on for like 20 mins, does it just sit there waiting for the disk OK or does that crash at any point?
Regards the games you have, you need to test each one and see what happens (and listen), do you get loading screens on some but not others, do you get any sound out at all? And when it crashes exactly what happens, does it crash at the very same point on the same game every time or not? Are there any games that load at all, have you tried a workbench disk?
And when the power light flashes, count the number of times it flashes and let me know how many you see.
 
Check on another TV like you said - just to rule it out! I am wondering if the Agnus has somehow gone into NTSC mode, either through bad connection or internal fault, that said games normally load when its in NSTC mode on a PAL console with PAL games, they usually crash a bit later.
 

Offline GadgetUK

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 89
    • Show all replies
Re: A500 disk drive stopped!
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2013, 05:04:47 PM »
Quote from: Laughy;730301
It looks like plastic coating covering that track. Had a gentle scratch with small screwdriver, it comes off a little bit, revealing copper track beneath.
 
Tried a continuity test, traced that track to the E403 by the Capacitor you mentioned and a solder port near the E703.
 
The display begins with a 1 showing, which I take means infinity. Get a reading of 01.3 should that be reading 0 though? Could that mean that the track is a bit damaged after all?

That 1.3 means 1.3 ohms probably which is OK as its very low resistance.  The large number as you say means very very high resistance so no connection.  You can use that mode of your multimeter to test fuses and bulbs - so keep the meter ;)
 

Offline GadgetUK

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 89
    • Show all replies
Re: A500 disk drive stopped!
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2013, 05:42:13 PM »
Quote from: mrknight;729694
Sorry for going a bit off topic here, but is this video available online? And if so, do you have a link? It sounds very interesting and I'd like to learn more:)

I can't remember but I think it was this one:-
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXRvCnmLj7A
 
Look at his channel after you've watched that, he's got several more videos including another 2 or 3 related to that retro repair event.
 
I think he might have been specifically refering to CIA's in the 64 and 128, but I know the CIA's go for the same reason in Amigas.  The number of CIA's i've replaced far outweighs any other component, although these days it seems to be RAM - all that DRAM in older machines is finally giving up the ghost it seems.
 

Offline GadgetUK

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 89
    • Show all replies
Re: A500 disk drive stopped!
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2013, 06:12:51 PM »
Incidentally, here's are the schematics for your revision PCB:-
 
http://amigarealm.whdownload.com/archives/Amiga%20Schematics%20and%20Manuals/A500_R6a_7.zip
 
It might seem confusing to start with but there's a lot you can learn by looking that these - like how each chip connects to the next chip etc, and since you've got a multimeter now you could put it on resistance and check some of the resistors - the values are on the diagram.  NOTE: You sometimes don't get an accurate measurement of resistance whilst measuring a resistor in circuit, so you occasionally have to desolder one end in order to measure it properly.
 
If you take a look at the page with Denise on you can see the _CSYNC input into Denise, and if you look at the Agnus page you can see _CSYNC as an output.  I personally suspect something wrong with either Denise or Agnus, but it might not be the chips themselves, it could be supporting resistors, or capacitors etc.  Anyway, don't bog yourself down with this stuff too much just yet, read 3 or so posts back and see my summary of where we are - try and reply to those questions if you get time.
 

Offline GadgetUK

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 89
    • Show all replies
Re: A500 disk drive stopped!
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2013, 07:47:18 PM »
Quote from: Laughy;730975
Sorry for delay, didn't get to test Amiga on another TV as hoped. Have gone through the tests from GadgetUK with the TV I've got, for now until I get to another TV, hopefully this weekend..

Here is a photo of the kickstart screen in mono...
[ATTACH]2833[/ATTACH]

Picture has interference, which I hoped was due to TV not being tuned in properly. I have cleaned the remote controller, and got it working. It doesn't seem to have more functions than the buttons on side of TV, like I had hoped! Seems that it can't be more finely tuned.

Results of tests so far..

1. Haven't been able to verify if modulator working or not yet.

One good thing though! Found a friend who still has his old Amiga500!! But has lost the modulator, I'm going to see him on friday, taking my Amiga. At the very least to see if my modulator works on his Amiga, unfortunately he has no compatible TV.

3 Games the drive crashes on:

Nitro. After a few seconds, drive stops with both power and drive light on, no flashing. No signal going to TV.

Project X. Drive turns once, stops, lights on, no flashing. Drive makes one click, then 'bad disk' noise of continual clicking.

Turrican 2. Two clicks, one turn. Stops, lights on but not dim.

Workbench. Loads much more than other disks, lots of turning and clicking, sounds good. Loads for about 2 minutes, stops, drive light not on. No signal to TV.

No loading screens at all on any games tested.

Kickstart image is up, as photo shows. After 20mins, still up, computer doesn't spontaneously crash.

Drive makes it's normal, rhythmic clicking sound.


I will carry out all tests again on a different TV. Hopefully this weekend, if the modulator has not stopped working!!


That is more than a bit of noise, that picture is well out.  Just to confirm you are connecting from mono composite out to a composite in on the TV and you arent plugging it inti a uhf / rf socket?  Composite is not 'tuned in' it just connects and you select the composite / av in/ aux on the tv and thats it.
 

Offline GadgetUK

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 89
    • Show all replies
Re: A500 disk drive stopped!
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2013, 08:18:32 PM »
I cant help but wonder if all thats wrong is the FDD and all these video issues are your TV.  If it doesnt work on another TV its probably Agnus, that said the reason I think there might not be fault with a chip on the Amiga is I would expect the power light to flash on a crash when it dumps to the guru screen.  The behaviour looks like a disk drive read problem and its possible the display problems are the TV.

You really need to prove one way or another on a different TV.
 

Offline GadgetUK

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 89
    • Show all replies
Re: A500 disk drive stopped!
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2013, 08:26:29 PM »
Just to expand on my comment above about where you are connecting composite out of the Amiga...

Typically composite connector is yellow in colour.  If you are connecting to a modern TV dont make the mistake of plugging into one of the 3 composite red, green or blue sockets - they are marked composite so you could do it by mistake.  Ive got no idea what the picture would look like if you did that.  You also should use a composite lead to connect - not the RF lead that you use with the modulator - the noise makes me think you are using that lead possibly??? It wont connect properly and leave the signal or ground floating.
 

Offline GadgetUK

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 89
    • Show all replies
Re: A500 disk drive stopped!
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2013, 08:31:29 PM »
Quote from: GadgetUK;730984
I cant help but wonder if all thats wrong is the FDD and all these video issues are your TV.  If it doesnt work on another TV its probably Agnus, that said the reason I think there might not be fault with a chip on the Amiga is I would expect the power light to flash on a crash when it dumps to the guru screen.  The behaviour looks like a disk drive read problem and its possible the display problems are the TV.

You really need to prove one way or another on a different TV.

Quote from: Laughy;730986
Sure, just checked, I've got the cable going from mono out on the Amiga into the ANT IN on the TV. It's the only socket it will fit into.

Tried to select AV input on the TV menu, but says 'no signal' when I try that.

Does this sound like an issue with the sync from Agnus to Denise?

OK, progress.  See my last post.  You are connecting composite mono to the RF in on the TV.  That won't work.

Next step is to either retry modulator with that same socket on TV and make sure you scan through each channel as you try to program the channel.  If you cannot do that, just order a scart cable from ebay for the a500, but make sure your TV does have a free scart socket.

I think theres nothing wrong here other than dirty heads, and possibly not even that...

Edit: how did you test with modulator to start with?  I am suspecting you just changed channels and didnt actually 'tune a channel' whilst amiga was connected and powered up?  Sorry if its a stupid question but ive got to ask.  Worst case is perhaps your TV doesnt like the modulator signal or it wasnt all connected up properly when you tuned a channel in.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:39:55 PM by GadgetUK »
 

Offline GadgetUK

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 89
    • Show all replies
Re: A500 disk drive stopped!
« Reply #28 on: April 02, 2013, 08:46:26 PM »
See above.  Ive dropped u an email as well just to say also check when tuning TV into modulator that you arent looking for a digital signal - TV needs to look for an analogue signal.
 

Offline GadgetUK

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 89
    • Show all replies
Re: A500 disk drive stopped!
« Reply #29 from previous page: April 02, 2013, 08:53:46 PM »
Woohoo!  Progress!!

Yes, take FDD out. Then take lid off the drive (you dont need to take any other parts off). Some drive lids held on with 1,2 or maybe 3 ver small screws, but some amiga drive lids are taped at the sides, if its one if those just peal that tape / silver foil off and youre in.

Use a damp cotton bud with alchohol and gently rub the heads from side to side around 10 times each.  The bottom head is easy, top one usually tricker - dont bend it upwards, just lift it gently until you get cotton bud onto it.

Also clean any hair or dust out of the assembly while u are there.

If it was taped at the sides u can replace with selotape.