Amiga, Inc: Close That Open Hardware!

[Kronos]

@samface
Would you please stop that bullshit !!

Hyperion applied for an developer-board targeted to
 MORPHOS_DEVELOPERS !!!

and suprise suprise they didn't get one ...

But when a board was offered to them they started backing out
because of that plain stupid licence.

So it is AIncs own licence whats preventing OS4 from running
on the Pegasos in the fisrt place.

Well that is if OS4 would exist in any form suitable to run on anythiong  :-P

[Kronos]

@Alkemyst

And that is the difference:

Genesi:
We decide on what HW MorphOS runs [full stop]

AInc/Hyperion:
We decide on what HW OS4 will run, but we gone put the blame
for it on the HW-producers.

a) I don't believe that the licence is really free
b) Even it would be free it would still be a "no no" for most HW-firms.

Apple ? NO! Tratech ? NO! TerraSoft ? NO! Genesi ? NO!

What do "we" get ?
One rather clueless retailer (Eyetech) and maybe 2 vapor products
(Merlancia and the Shark).



Whooooopeeeeee !!

Looking back you might notice that Hyperion talked about running OS4
on the Pegasos and even Macs, but got  rather silent when they realized
that they had underestimated the work involved and therefore no
resources to do "hostile ports".

[Kronos]

@ShadesOfGrey

AINc has made it 100% clear that there wonb't be a retail version
of OS4 except the one for the old P5-HW.

Just reread those exec-ups.

Both AInc and Eyetech have invested 0.0$ into OS4, and so I see no
reason why they should be entilted for a "save return".

Eyetech had invested  some money in the a piece of HW that was a dead-end
from the beginning(Escena-A1). Though luck !!

[Kronos]

, there is also the PPC cards from Phase5, Elbox and DCE.

Heh

Phase5: Yes those cards exist and will be supported WITHOUT a licence.

ELBOX: 100% vapor and according to Elbox Articia-based.

DCE: ? Do you mean those cards that are identical to the p5s ?
Cos thats all you will ever get from DCE.

The only non-Articia PPC-HW that is available for consumers comes
from Apple, and don't expect them to come crawling for a licence.

[Kronos]

>How little you know,

Says the one who tried to tell me that the A1-Xe would be based on the
A1-SE and not the TeronPX.......

>perhaps I should add the planned G3/G4 cards from Matay?

Why not Merlancia ? Just about as much realistic ....

>Nevertheless, my point remains; why limit ourselves to the mainstream hardware?

Mainstream ? Wow you got a weird view of that. If ther is any "mainstream"
PPC-HW than it is made by Apple, so much is for sure.

And who said something about limiting ?

It is just a fact that porting the A1-version to another Articia-based board
would be much easier as getting OS4 to run on something non-Articia.

So whre are the options for OS4 ? And no I don't think addons for addons
to ten year old home-comuters are a valid future plan.

Running on legacy free HW, is the main point of OS and MOS, and sofar
OS4 has limited itself to the most inferior option out there.

[Kronos]

No, it doesn't require a hardware manufacturer represant in order to license the hardware

Do you understand the meaning of the word "licence" ?

Noone from P5 signed a contract with AInc.
There is and will be no dongle on those cards.
Copies of OS4 for this will be sold WITHOUT being bundled to the HW.

So yes it will be supported without a licence.

Vapor? Unless it's official information from Elbox, that is FUD.

No until Elbox shows a running (maybe linux) of that card it is VAPOR !!
(just look it up in a dictionary).

Elbox were in Aachen, but all they showed was bunch of mediators.

Oh and do you remember that they claimed that it would be able to
run an A1 version of OS4 unchanged ? Well that is only possible if it is
Articia-based.

[Kronos]

@Alkemyst

Sure, but there that was not the way it went for me
(and I don't think I'm alone on this).

When AInc/Hyperion decided that they wouldn't support the Pegasos
(which they did with introducing the licence) they also made the descision
that I will never buy OS4 in any form.

Before April2002 Pegasos+OS4 was what I wanted, but when I had only the
choice between A1+OS4 and Pegasos+MOS it was with no doubt the 2nd
option that was my choice.

One sold copy of OS4 less.

Now alot has happened eversince, and i wouldn't touch OS4 with a stick
even if it would be released "shrink-wrapped" for my board, but that again
is something thta happened due to actions of AInc/Hyperion.

[Kronos]

"rushing out" ??

I can assure you that I haven't rushed anything, I just made a descision
based on what is really there, and what might appear sometimes.

Sofar I haved missed nothing on OS4, and I don't think I will in the
forseeable future.

I also don't worry bout anything, I just can't stand it when people try to
blame Genesi for something decided by AInc/Hyperion.

But the point stands: Hyperion is loosing potential buyers for their OS
every day Genesi sells one board, and they will loose alot more before
they even have somthing to sell.

[Kronos]

@DaveP

What are you on ?

Yes any Pegasos will ship with MorphOS, just like any Mac
ships with MacOS and every A1 is gonna ship with OS4.

But thats NOT the point of the petition, it is about OS4 being
sold without the HW, to use it on a Pegasos or Mac.

And remember it was Hyperion who talked about running OS4 on Macs
and Pegasos before April. BPlan haven't changed their stance a bit:

If they want to sell their SW for our HW, than they are free to do
it, but we won't give them any special treatment.

Both A1 and Pegasos are NOT closed, it is the OSes that are, and
Genesi atleast haven't ruled out selling MorphOS shrink-wrapped for
A1 or Mac.

[Kronos]

Genesi ruled out selling AmigaOS4 for the Pegasos

Yes and I'm sure Apple would rule out selling AOS,MOS or Linux for Macs.
(o.k. maybe not Linux).

But do they rule out letting someone else doing an OS and sell it for their HW ?

And again both boards are open, cos you can run whatever SW you like on it.

Do you really think AInc would allow the Pegasos to be sold with MOS and OS4 ?

Without paying the "A1-the-name" licence fees ?

It is AInc's and only AInc's (+Hyperion) descicion on what HW
their OS gets ported, and they won't do it for the Mac or the Pegasos,
so they are the ones responsible for the lack of choice.

Hiding behind an obscure licence-scheme won't change that, but it
sure make a hell of a good PR.

[Kronos]

@DaveP
There is a tiny difference between M$-bundling and the Pegasos.

M$ forces their SW on someelses HW, (just like AInc tries with the licence),
while Genesi produce ONE product consisting of HW&SW. Doesn't mean you
couldn't run any other OS on it, or that retailers wouldn't be
allowed to bundle a 2nd OS to it (something M$ doesn't allow).

[Kronos]

I don't see you pressuring Apple into providing a ubiquitous MacOS CD to run on all PPC hardware past and present??!?  

I'm surely not presuring anybody here, I just don't like it when
people try to blame Genesi for something that is AIncs descicion.

I don't see Steve Jobs running around an claiming that you could
just licence OSX to non-Apple-HW.

If AIncs wants their OS to run on something else than the A1, than
they have to make it available. Simple logic.

"A1-the-name-licence"

Nothing known ?
Just reread all the ExecUps and statements by Ben Alan and you would find this.

OS4-licence is free.
But doesn't allow the HW to be called AmigaOne.
Alan: All licencec paid.

And even more, so yes putting the name Amiga on something does cost, and
according to everything that is publicly known it will be the major
income for AInc from the whole OS4-project.

And again, show me any proof the Genesi are not allowing anybody to
port any OS !!

All that is need for this is a board and some documentation, and as
long as that was all that Hyperion demande I was right behind them,
but THEY are it who are adding extra preconditions to such a port
not Genesi.

[Kronos]

AInc and the thruth ?  I thought those were mutaly exclusive .....


And what lies ? That the MAI-NB is quite buggy ?
That Eyetechs/MAIs fix isn't the end of it all ?
"Switch of DMA" was the advices given for someone with a "fixed" board.

Or that OS4 won't make it to the targeted deadlines in May or
December ? Well show me your OS4 !!

Genesi have a product to sell while the other side has only
overpriced linux-systems and pre-pay-coupons.

That is the simple thruth.

[Kronos]

This are your exact words:

"Genesi are the ones not allowing AmigaOS4 to be ported to their board...."

No I'm not gonna search the whole net for a few quotes, but you can
explain to my why the A1 cost more than a Teron from TerraSoft ?
Or how AInc is gonna make some money on this when the OS-licence
is free and they are getting very little for OS4 itself (according to Ben H.).

AInc should decide what they want:
a) Sell A1/OS4 as "full" systems, which limits them to HW-vendors
very close to them.

b) Sell OS4 for "every suitable HW" which is impossible with the current licence.

The Pegasos is Genesi's product, and they decide to whom they sell it
under what conditions.

OS4 is(will be) AIncs/Hyperion#s product and THEY decide how they are
gonna sell it. And not HW-vendors refusing to sign a licence.

But thats all just rethorics, cos the current situation allows
Genesi's market-share to grow, and it will be very hard for OS4
to compensate that headstart without compromising on the licence.

[Kronos]

It will only dominate the Amiga market IF no copies of AmigaOS4 appear this year.      

Or if Genesi show a working eclipsis.
Or if more MOS-SW appears than for OS4.
Or if Eyetech fail to deliever (again).
Or if MOS is vastly superior to OS4.