LoadModule vs LoadResident

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I'm trying to figure out something dumb and this is a piece of the puzzle.  What, exactly, is the difference between the LoadResident command and the LoadModule command?

(besides that LoadModule seems to be newer and have more features)

Are there certain modules/libraries/etc. that can only be loaded with one or the other?  Is one more "reset-proof" than the other?  From what I've seen they seem to be pretty interchangeable...

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I think LoadResident started more as a way to have a resource kept handy by the OS, rather than loading it from disk. C commands, executables that were going to be used a lot. Helped a lot with a using a floppy system sometimes, if you didn't have to load the resource repeatedly.

I think that was just "resident", not "LoadResident".   i.e., you'd put "Resident C:Assign" into your floppy-based startup-sequence right before your list of 20 assign commands.  So it wouldn't have to load the command each time.  But I can't remember, it's been over 20 years since I used 1.3.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Basically here's what I'm trying to do (see attached picture).  Am currently loading all those libraries and modules through a carefully organized sequence of those two commands.  It works fine, but my OCD is getting to me and I'd like to try to make it cleaner, without it erroring out at "SYS:C/LoadModule: command too long", LOL.  :lol:

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Attached screenshot shows how it is currently.  And yes, it works fine like this.  But it's messy and I'm OCD.  Keep trying to find a way to clean it up that doesn't involve getting the hardware to burn my own custom ROM's.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

The latest LoadModule can use an AUTO statement and automatically load all the modules you have in the proper places.

I tried that but couldn't seem to get it to work.  Think I need more documentation.  Is there a list of exactly what it loads, and from where?  Alternatively, if I fill up a directory with everything I want loaded, can I just point it at that directory?

A lot of the custom modules I load have names like "LIBS:graphics.library_42.8b11-02" and I think the AUTO switch only works with "standard" names (i.e., scsi.device).

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Hummm.  Trying the above (including renaming the files and using *.* wildcards) but keep getting various "object is not of the required type" and "already resident - object already exists" errors.

Will keep poking at it.  Not a huge priority, just had a few minutes of free time tonight and thought maybe I'd get lucky...

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Yes, the AUTO flag of new LoadModule will look in certain paths for certain filenames, it is all very detailed described in the documentation. Only thing not described so well is which modules it will look for automatically.

Guess I would need the "for dummies" guide. As in, "AUTO will only load graphics.library from LIBS:, and only if the filename is "graphics.library".

I know the docs mention stuff about wildcards, and also putting stuff in subfolders, but I couldn't get it to work.  I created subfolders inside DEVS:, LIBS:, and L: and called them A2000B, and stuck copies of all my custom libraries in them, but the most I could get out of it were errors that the library had already been loaded when I tried cold booting.

"*.*" is wrong platform, what you would want is "#?.#?".

True enough. I remembered that after I posted. I know *.* works on my Miggy but I think that's only after it's booted, and only because of one of the multi-function commodities I'm running. Memory is a bit hazy, didn't they make some kind of change to that around Workbench 2 or 3?

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Yes, of course. If the directory name is "SYS:ResidentModules", then

Code: [Select]

LoadModule SYS:ResidentModules/#?
will do that for you. Though I must say that I like the idea of "AUTO" better because you drop off the module in the same places a disk-based module would have to be put to.

Tried this.  Copied all of the modules I currently load via a combination of 'LoadResident' and 'LoadModule' statements into SYS:ResidentModules and added the line "LoadModule SYS:ResidentModules REVERSE NOREBOOT" to my s-s.

Rebooted and got the error "intution.library version 40 already resident", "Loading intution.library failed: object already exists".  I tried it named both "intuition.library" and "intuition.library_40.86b7".

Next I tried deleting that particular library, rebooted again, and this time got the same error, only with card.resource.  Deleted card.resource from my new directory again, rebooted, and this time the error was with trackdisk.device.

Thoughts?  I can't seem to get this to work at all - neither trying to load all of the modules from a single directory or using the AUTO switch.  But doing it "the old fashion way" works just fine.


Edit: still playing around with this.  It seems like some things just will not load with LoadModule, but will with LoadResident.  Hummm...

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Which patch is the utility.library ?

It's here:

https://amiga.foul.fr/
utility_41.0(020)(18.10.14).library

Tiny little thing, I don't recall off-hand exactly what the update is for.  But here's what utility.library does, in general:

http://wiki.amigaos.net/wiki/Utility_Library

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

If it is already present, it is already present. Delete intuition.library from LIBS: and off you go. Renaming is, as said, not necessary and does not even help.

So that I understand correctly, it's still looking in the LIBS: directory (at the old copy there), even though I'm explicitly telling it to load the modules from SYS:/ResidentModules/#?  ?

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

No, Mike. It's in your ROM. I yet have to see an Amiga that comes without intuition in ROM. (-;

Then why is LoadModule SYS:/ResidentModules/#?  failing to replace it?

But when I write the command as "LoadModule Libs:Intuition.library"  it works fine?

What I'm saying is, everything works fine. I just have huge and unwieldy long lines full of "LoadResident" and "LoadModule" commands in my Startup-Sequence. They're so long, in fact, that I can't add anything else to them. I hit the limits of character spacing in Ed, even.

I'm replacing just about every component in the ROM through these long and unwieldy statements and am trying to simplify by dumping all my modified libraries/devs/handlers all into one directory and just saying "Hey, LoadModule, just load everything in this directory" where I'm struggling. :confused:


Yeah yeah, one of these days I'll just break down and get the equipment to burn my own ROM's. :rofl:

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

See above: You have already a V40 in ROM. You cannot replace a V40 in ROM with a V40 from disk, *UNLESS* you also specify "DOWNGRADE". You can replace V40 from ROM with V42 from disk if you would have it.

It's not a downgrade.  It's intuition.library version 40.86b7 from here, that was discussed "to death" way back in this thread.  Version in ROM is 40.85.  But I think I get it, now.  This goes back to something mentioned in one of the previous threads on this subject - that unless you specify the file directly, AUTO only reads the major version number (40) and not the full "40.86".  This is just an example, though - it's doing the same thing with all the libraries (like in Kolla's case, it was trackdisk.device).  Now I think I understand.

Ah well, so wildcards don't work, and AUTO doesn't work (with my particular requirements, anyway)... guess I'll keep doing it the "old fashion" way.  Thanks!  

If you want to override this, add "DOWNGRADE". But then don't come back to me and tell me that your system became unstable. It's then your problem.

Hey now, no need to get snippy.  From a layman's perspective I had assumed what I was trying to do was pretty simple: automatically load an entire directory full of replacement libraries, devs, and handlers, instead of having to spell out each one in the Startup-Sequence.  Didn't realize it would be so difficult, lol.    Thanks for your help, cheers!

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

"DOWNGRADE" is the "yes, I really know what I'm doing" switch

I think what's confusing to a layman is the name "downgrade".

Thanks for the help, guys. Like I said before, all of my custom modules work fine when I load them the old fashion way. Will just keep on doing it like that, lol. :lol:

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Just thought I would follow up on this old thread to say I finally got LoadModule working with the "DOWNGRADE" option.

I had to use a combination of DOWNGRADE + AUTO + a manually specified directory ("SYS:ResidentMods") where I packed in all the extra stuff that LoadModule wasn't able to detect automatically.

But here's some additional info, if anyone is interested (screenshots attached).  Still a hair on the kludgy side, still not as good as burning a custom ROM, but it's able to successfully load all my modules without the super-long strings of commands I was having to use before.  And that's all I was really trying to do, LOL.  :banana:

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Just wanted to applaud your constant effort @oldsmobilemike to improve and tweak your system by means of the latest and greatest libraries and in the cleanest most streamlined method possible.  As is often the case with our miggies, once you dig into a problem it can take numerous hours of head banging to get it working right (if at all).  The efforts and frustrations you make permanent on the forum make the process a little less daunting for the next Joe.  Personally this process is still above my pay-grade... I'm finally (in 2017) using "versionWB" to check libraries and just update them with the latest versions while maintaining a backup of the version before just in case. hahaha.  But maybe I'll get the guts to try what you did here at some point.
Anyway... good on ya!

Thank you, sir!  My fame will live forever in the hallowed halls of amiga.org website.  That is unless, of course, it goes down like amigaworld.net.  :lol: