Best Commodore 4000 Monitor?

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

"Best"?  That's kind of a subjective term, don't you think?  What's "best" for you might not be "best" for someone else.

That being said, if you want a monitor that was specifically manufactured by Commodore, try looking here:

http://gona.mactar.hu/Commodore/monitor/Commodore_monitors_by_model_number.html

Personally I use a Dell LCD monitor on my A2000, and a Vizio LCD TV on my A500.  I would say that they're both "the best", but again - subjective, haha.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

The 1084ST Monitor was released in 1994 two years later than the 1960 Monitor but according to the website the 1960 is better for the 4000.

Just because something is newer doesn't mean it is better. I wish I still had my 1970 Oldsmobile 98 convertible. Except for the terrible gas mileage, I'd take that car over any modern car, these days!

You do know you don't have to use a Commodore monitor specifically, right? Although I suppose if you're trying to keep it authentic to C= era hardware, the 1960 has probably the highest resolution, and lowest dot pitch, of any of the models they released.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Thank you for your excellent information mate. The 1960 Monitor seems to be the most appropriate one for it's advanced ouput functionality on the Commodore Amiga 4000. If I got a 1940 or 1942 Monitor and used it on a 4000 what differences would I notice and what features will I loose in comparison to the 1960. I know you said that the 1942 is a bi-sync. Anything Else? The hunt for the 1960, 1942 and 1940 begins. Is eBay and Amibay the best places to look for these Monitor's?

IMHO I would still use anything but a CRT monitor in 2014, but I get that some people want to "keep it original". More info here:

1940/1942:
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=854

1960:
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=857

Craigslist occasionally has Amiga items, don't forget to pick up a 23-pin to 15-pin adapter with these monitors!

Edit:  Does the 1960 have speakers?  I think only the 1940/1942 do.  If that's important to you.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I liked the Amiga M1764

and the '70 Olds was huge and couldn't corner but at least it (should have) had a Rocket 88.

I've always heard the M1764 was very unreliable.  And rare.  Probably because they all broke.  Good luck finding one.  Also it's AT, not C=, since that seems to matter?

Oh, and she had a 455, baby!  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQZV6q00sUc

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

My vote goes for the Sony GVM-1311Q multisync monitor. Mine was just rebuilt by Ray Carlsen.

From 1971 to 1985, I had an Oldsmobile Delta 88 with the Rocket 350 V8. Strange to call it a Rocket when it only had a 2-barrel carburetor. The Delta 88 was totaled in '85 when a hit-and-run driver crashed into it while it was parked. (sniff) Fortunately, the driver did not run too far before being caught.

And your 455 had a 4-barrel!

After it's popularity in the '50s, Oldsmobile started tagging everything with the "Rocket" moniker. My favorite was the "Super Rocket", or the "Toronado Rocket" in 1967. Popping the hood on one of those babies and seeing the big "Ultra High Compression" sticker across the air cleaner, not to mention that they were front-wheel drive, was a sight to behold!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_V8_engine#Super_Rocket

I had three Oldsmobiles, '70, '76, and '79, a 1972 Buick Electra 225 "deuce and a quarter", a '68 Dodge Dart, and pretty much a yard full of cars, back in the day, half of which belonged to my friends, that I'd work on. That's why "Oldsmobile_Mike", BTW. Because "Mike" is such a common name (not to mention my last name is very common, as well), people would call me "Oldsmobile_Mike" as a way to differentiate. I had two hobbies: working on cars, and Amiga's.

We could geek out about cars all day long, I'd be okay with that, but I think we've derailed this thread far enough. Ha! :roflmao:

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

What's the difference between the 1960 and 1962 Monitor?

I think the 1960 was made by Lite-On, or Philips, and the 1962 was made by Electrohome.  When you get down to the nuts and bolts of it, there's really almost no difference between most of these monitors.  For example the 10-or-so different models of 1084.  One might have the tilt/swivel base, and the other might not (like the difference between the 1940 & 1942).  Commodore was the cheapest of the cheap, back in the day.  They'd outsource monitor manufacture to whichever company could crank them out for a few pennies less, and then slap a Commodore badge on them.

You really want something unique, but also retro?  check out the A2024.  I think The Amiga Lounge had one of those for sale recently, might still have it!

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

According to this website the 1962 was an Escom Model as this database 'Excludes Escom Monitors'. I thought Commodore made 1962 Monitor's. :confused:

http://gona.mactar.hu/Commodore/monitor/Commodore_monitors_by_model_number.html

After Commodore declared bankruptcy in 1994 "ownership" of the Amiga went through many hands. Without going to Wikipedia to check my exact dates, I believe Escom AG owned Amiga from 1995-1996 until they, too, went bankrupt. Under Escom ownership Amigas were sold under the "Amiga Technologies" brand, or AT. Their line consisted of A1200's, A4000T's, and some re-branded monitors, M1438, M1764, stuff like that (and I guess 1962's). That's why you'll hear people talking about "Commodore A4000T's" and "AT A4000T's", with the Commodore branded ones being much more rare. Functionally they're nearly identical to their C= branded predecessors, a change to a faceplate here, a change to a floppy drive there, etc.

You have much to learn, young padawan.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Thanks guys, that makes sense now. I still don't understand how Commodore's 1960 Multisyc Monitor was released in 1991 whereas it's 1940 Bisync Monitor was released in 1993. You would think it would be the other way round or were these release dates incorrect.

From what I recall, the 1960 was a "high end" model released roughly around the same time as the A4000 came out. The 1940 was a "lower end" model released to go along with the A1200. That's why the 1940 was cheaper and had speakers. It was for gamers. The 1960 was for productivity and had a higher dot pitch.

Really I think you're reading too much into these model numbers. Just because 1960 > 1940 sequentially doesn't mean anything in terms of the specs or capabilities of the model.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Ok, I understand. What would a 1940 be like on a 4000? Would you need to install a graphics card to make up for the Multisync of the 1960 which this Monitor does not have.

"What would it be like"?  I would not use a 13" CRT monitor of any type in 2014.  I use 1084's especially as doorstops, they are horrible, horrible on the eyes, lol.    But to answer your question, since the 1940 supports both 15KHz and 31KHz output, it should allow you to display most of the standard screenmodes of a stock A4000.

Any Amiga graphics card is going to exceed the capabilities of all of these monitors.  Look at the specs of one of the better Amiga graphics cards.  Now compare this to the capabilities of these monitors you're looking at:

http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/picasso4

As you can see, this particular card can do up to 1600x1200 resolution.  None of these junky C= monitors will support that.  You'd have to get a real monitor.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Appreciate your support, although I want to keep the authentic Commodore Retro Experience. Get the 1960, Get the 1940, Get the 1960, Get the 1940, ahhhhhhhh I can't make a decision!!! :crazy:

That's what I figured.  Neither of them come up for sale very often, I'd say get whichever you can find first, and be prepared to do a little work on it to "get it right".

There's a 1950 for sale right now with a fairly reasonable buy-it-now price:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMMODORE-1950-MONITOR-Amiga-CLEANED-WORKING-multisync-vga-crt-vintage-/321612132369

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Not interested in the 1950, thanks for the link though. So Mike, if you had an Amiga 4000 without a Monitor, would you choose the 1960 or 1940 if you had to choose from one of the two.

I would sooner gouge my eyes out.    The A4000 is capable of so much more, especially if you add a video card.

Although if it was the year 1992 again, I'd probably go with the 1960 and just use a set of external speakers or hook up to my stereo.  I had a 1084S-D1 back then however, because that's all I could afford and I thought it was amazing.  In 1992.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Here's the response I got on EAB. I asked 'What's the 1940 like compared to the 1960 monitor on an Amiga 4000' and the person responded with this answer 'Terrible..Oh, reasoning.. yes..

- no two amiga screen modes use the same adjustments so you will spend a lot of time twiddling the knobs
- unsharp dot pitch'

What would be your comment to this answer Mike? Thanks

Ha!

The 1960 does have a higher dot pitch. You can read that right in any of the pages of links to the specs we've already sent you. It was the more "professional" model. Neither of these was a high quality product when they were released new, however. And now, with 20 years of age on them? Good luck.

I remember back in the day, most people wanted the NEC 3D. That was "the monitor to have". Nobody who knew better wanted a Commodore monitor. Or what was that other monster that people liked back in the day? The 20" Toshiba TIMM? Maybe try finding one of those? Ha.
 
 Amiga Report Magazine has a few reviews on different monitors from "back in the day" tucked inside it's pages. Was a bit of nostalgia just googling up a link: http://www.amigareport.com/  Have fun!

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

The 1960 Monitor it is then. I just have one last question. Why would Commodore release the 1940 Monitor 2 years after the 1960 Monitor which was Multisync where as the later one was Bisync, not as advanced. Thanks

Like I said, from what I remember of seeing of ads in Amiga World and other magazines at the time, the 1940 was released as a "lower end" monitor to be sold along with the A1200. That's why it had speakers - for games. The 1960 was a business/productivity monitor, hence the higher dot pitch.

Companies released cost-reduced models all the time. Commodore was especially "cost conscious" in this way. In other words, "cheap".

TL;DR. You're killing me dude. Just because something's newer doesn't mean it's better. :p

Go ask Commodore if you want any more reasoning than that.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Every 1084 I've used, except for the earliest ones, were able to display both 50Hz (PAL) and 60Hz (NTSC) video modes just fine.  Might just have to twiddle the vertical size adjustment knob a bit.  Obviously that won't help you if one requires 110V and you're on 220V, however.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

What Monitors did the Commodore Amiga 4000T come with when it was being sold in shops. I'm guessing it was the 1960

I don't think the C= A4000T ever made it to any shops.  It'd be a rare bird, if it had!  Google yourself up some PDF copies of old issues of Amiga World magazine, or any of the other half-dozen or so mags that existed at the time, and check out the advertisements.  The later AT A4000T (1995-1996) was usually advertised with one of the Microvitec monitors.

TL;DR.  Yes, probably the 1960 for the C= model.