NetSurf 3.2 68k released

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Anybody ever figure out how to get this to work?  Now that I finally have enough ram I figured I'd give it a shot.

• Downloaded the 68k version off Aminet
• Went through the entire archive and copied everything in Netsurf directories into my directories (i.e., Netsurf/C into C:, NetSurf/Devs into DEVS:, Netsurf/Fonts into Fonts:, etc.).  I also left a copy in the PROGDIR:, just in case.
• - For things that I had already installed that were older, I replaced them with the versions included in the archive (mostly ixemul.library stuff)
•  - For things that I had already installed that were newer, I kept my newer versions (i.e., MUI/thebar.mcp)
• Added the NetSurf: assign to my User-Startup
• Checked that I have PAL monitor driver installed
  
• Added the two lines to the Resources/Options file mentioned in post #12 (replaced the two lines that were already in the file)
  
• Since I noticed them, I also changed "window_width:" and "window_height:" in the Options file to sizes that are more compatible with the resolution of my Workbench, and "disk_cache_size:" to something a little smaller.  I didn't count the digits but I think it defaulted to something like 100GB.  ;)
• I uncommented the second "Mount" statement in the "Assigns" text file
• MiamiDX is running, from what I read in other threads NetSurf should work with this stack
• I also tried changing Options file "window_depth:" from 32 to 16.  No idea what that means but I'm assuming color depth?

After all that, the best I can get when I double-click on any of the three icons is "Attempting to load program NetSurf" at the top of my Workbench, after which it locks up the machine (frozen mouse pointer and everything).

Obviously I don't expect the AGA version to work, but I do have my Workbench set to a nice 800x600x16-bit graphics mode that doesn't have any problems with anything else.

Any ideas?  Something obvious I'm missing?  Or do I have to hunt through the darn Options file and just poke at things until it works, in Typical Amiga Fashion (tm)?  ;)

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

For the heck of it I also tried bumping my Workbench up to 1024x768, no difference.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Hi!  Thanks for the responses!  I actually downloaded four different versions, but was having a hard time even telling which versions were for 68k, which for OS4, etc.  I'm gonna say this is due to insufficient documentation, but probably more due to the fact that I don't know anything about the software and have never used it.  Or as we call it in the IT field, "operator error".    Was trying "3.3 Dev" that said it was uploaded to Aminet 9/29/2014, so I didn't think it was too old.

We block dropbox at my office but I'll download that other version later and give it a shot.  What's the worst it can do, not work, right?  LOL.  :lol:  IBrowse still works great for most of the browsing I do on my Miggy, just wanted to try something new.  I wish there was better documentation for that "Options" file.  I'll keep poking at it!  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Just a quick update - Same crash upon loading with the non-framebuffer Alpha version, but I got it running one time with @Blizz1220's version.  *MY GOD* was it ever slow!  LOL.  Not sure how I feel about the interface but the Google homepage looked nice.  Then I got a visit from the guru when I tried to open amiga.org.  Oh well, I'll keep poking at it!  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

This is probably a dumb question, but how did this software wind up with so many different versions?  Is it re-compiled every night by a different team with different hardware, or something?

Obviously somebody didn't follow Joel's laws.  :lol:

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

the sdl netsurf is being developed by artur. different versions are the result of transition to noixemul port as well as targeting differen hardware settings, such as aga vs rtg, fast (uae) systems with true type font or without for "lowend" amigas.

ideally, what i would opt for, was one for all version with switchable features, but this depends all on artur. or anyone who would like to join and help him. i from my side can assure the last versio was very promissing, only few problems dragged it down again.

Thanks!  That does clear it up a bit.  And agreed.  Would be nice to see a single package, that when installed does a couple basic hardware checks on the system and installs the appropriate version.  Right now it seems much too difficult for a layman to use.  Hopefully it'll all get squared away one day, before even more fragmentation of the codebase occurs.  It looks promising though!  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

All other versions use Framebuffer frontend wich is meant to be used with "no gui" sytems and debugging also they are build to top of SDL.  Thats why Arthur version from Amiga Netsurf is NOT here http://www.netsurf-browser.org/downloads/ and never will. Frambuffer is not meant to be used like that.

I looked at that page a few days ago and got even more confused, since even the version on Aminet is newer than those  (and those are clearly not 68k).  Okay.  Huh.  I do not understand this concept of "building a web browser with no GUI".  How are you supposed to interact with it?  Command line? :lol:

Yeah, I think I'll play around a little more with the six or so versions I already have downloaded, and just watch and see.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Anyone care to comment on how this performs on a a1200 with blizzard 030 + FPU (64mb) ?

Look at the specs for my main A2000 (in my sig).  When I was able to get it to run, it ran very poorly. (and that's putting it politely).  Obviously I've got some configuration issues still to sort out, but I wouldn't hold a lot of hope for good performance with the system specs you've quoted.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

SDL/Framebuffer

Every time I hear that word "Framebuffer" I think of Amiga video cards like the Firecracker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Framebuffer

Learning about NetSurf is like learning a whole new incomprehensible language, haha.  :lol:

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Chris's version is more forgiving of installation problems but there are known problems including rendering clearing and font crashing for some users (not reproducible here) which make it less than usable, IMO.

NovaCoder probably could have done some good but he is leaving the Amiga.

There isn't much motivation to do anything as the Amiga hits new lows and dies more everyday.

Aww geeze Matt, your post seriously just made me depressed.  You have any good news for us?  

Where's @danbeaver with some witty pun when we need him?  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I cannot comment other platforms but if you mean the newest (no-ixemul) version from here:
http://ami-soft.blogspot.de/

"NetSurf 3.3 no-ixemul v5

it runs both stable and fast on Aros Vision (most pages are loaded and shown in 5 seconds prior on same hardware it were 20-30 seconds). Of course I have not tested it on "real hardware". In any case you will need "modern resources" when using "modern software". Some ask for newest OWB (that might be ported to Aros 68k) in comparation Netsurf is lean.

No bueno on either of the versions included in the "NetSurf 3.3 no-ixemul v5" archive, either.  System completely locks up after the "Attempting to load program NetSurf" message.  Mouse pointer unresponsive, hard drive light stays solid lit.  

I guess I just don't understand the point of developing an Amiga web browser that only works on emulated Amiga's?  If only we could get all you talented guys to pitch together on an update to IBrowse, instead!  :lol:

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Regarding topic... perhaps you could offer a error log?

I would be glad to, if you could offer some advice how to do that?

Like I said, I install the program in Netsurf: directory (removing any previous files from the other versions I've tried), double-click either of the icons, it says "Attempting to load program Netsurf" in the title bar, then the machine completely locks up.  Mouse pointer doesn't move and hard drive activity light stays solid lit.  Nothing I can do beyond that point other than flip the power.

Only version I was able to get working was one of the old 2.7 builds.  It loaded Google homepage but was so slow as to be unusuable, then guru'd when I tried to load Amiga.org.

Sorry that feedback isn't terribly helpful.  You can see my A2000 system specs in my sig, so while I'm not trying to run it on "the latest & greatest" hardware, my system isn't exactly a slouch, either.  Just not sure where to go from here.  It may very well be something in the "Options" file, but since I don't understand what any of those options do, I'm kind of shooting blind! :confused:

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

do you have my last Aros Vision somewhere? The version there works (at least in Aros Vision). You find it in Internet/Netsurf

I am not sure if Netsurf works without RTG except Netsurf AGA

just found it... it seems that RTG is requirement (except Netsurf AGA)

Hi @olafS3,

I'm not familiar with AROS Vision, but after some googling I downloaded the version "direct download (Aros Vision RTG)" from http://www.aros-platform.de/.

I do have RTG, am running the latest version of P96 from here: http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/Picasso96.htm  on a GVP Spectrum graphics card.  I run my Workbench in 800x600x16-bit color, I also tried switching to 1024x768 but that made no difference (NetSurf crashed the same way).

I extracted the folder "Internet\NetSurf-m68k" from your archive (I see there was three different versions: "NetSurf", "NetSurf8Bit", and "NetSurf-m68k"... I assume I extracted the correct one?) and copied it onto my Amiga into the NetSurf: folder.

Double-clicked on "NetSurf" (not "NetSurfAGA" and not "NetSurf-nottf"), and the computer crashed in exactly the same way.

Obviously I don't expect the AGA version to work...  what is the "nottf" version?  I see this one a lot, too.  "nottf" I assume stands for "No TrueType Fonts"?  What does that mean?  Aside from having something to do with the TrueType fonts in the \Fonts directory, I assume?

I also went into the Resources\Options file and tried poking around in there for a bit.  This is where the lack of documentation starts to become frustrating.  A few examples:

memory_cache_size:2097152
disc_cache_size:1073741825

What is that, bytes?  Kbytes?  The disk cache size defaults to 1,073,741,825 bytes?  The memory cache defaults to 2,097,152 bytes?  My entire Workbench partition is only 500MB, could it be that the program is crashing on startup because it's trying to allocate a larger disk cache than the entire partition?  I've tried adjusting these numbers to more reasonable values manually, with no luck.

window_width:800
window_height:600
window_depth:32

Guessing at these options, too.  Could it be that it's crashing because it's trying to open a window at the full size of my Workbench screen?  And what is window_depth?  My Workbench runs in 800x600x16-bit screenmode.  I've tried changing these numbers to more reasonable values, such as a smaller window of 600x400, and changing "window_depth" to 16, also with no luck.

And those are just the options I'm guessing at.  The other options are even more cryptic and baffling to me!  "min_reflow_period:"?  "max_fetchers:20"?  "core_select_menu:1"?  Perhaps if these options were explained in layman's terms, one could figure out exactly what they're supposed to do and if they could be the reason why it's crashing.  

Long story short, I feel like this program is too complicated for a layman to understand.  *If* these options are the reason why it's crashing, then perhaps a GUI-based preferences program to help a user set them, prior to running the program, might be in order?    About the only thing I've noticed is depending on how I set them, can make the difference between whether or not I can still move the mouse pointer after the system's locked up.  

Of course that's all just hypothetical.  It could be crashing because I'm running Birdie and VisualPrefs to spruce up my Workbench a bit.  Or maybe it's crashing because I'm running THoR's MMU libraries.  Or any of a dozen different reasons.  No idea.  The system is pretty stable otherwise, just really doesn't seem to like NetSurf for whatever reason.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

the newest version is in "Netsurf" (the other two are older versions including the AGA version). I have looked in the documentation and at least for the 2.9 series RTG was a requirement so I do not believe that it works without it. "AGA" needs AGA obviously so without either AGA or RTG it will not work I think.

I do have RTG...  Does it require something specific?  A certain version of rtg.library, perhaps?  Something from CyberGraphX?  Like I said before, I'm running absolutely the brand-newest version of P96 available, AFAIK.  Oh well, I'm about to give up, LOL.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Bytes.  If you'd read the links I posted earlier you'd know that.

Sorry boss, those links were way too technical for reading at 3am.  :laughing:

So, to spell it out for a dumb, idiot layman:  The default disk cache is set to 1073741825 bytes.  Google calculator tells me that rounds down to 1.07 gigabytes.  I've installed NetSurf in SYS:Internet/NetSurf directory.  My entire SYS: partition (a.k.a. Workbench partition) is only 500 megabytes.  So, could one problem potentially be that NetSurf is crashing because it is trying to allocate a disk cache larger than my entire partition size?

And that's just one of the options, LOL!  Nevermind, I give up, haha.