We need an iBrowse replacement for 68k!!!

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

A little progress!  It consumed 53MB of memory just to load http://www.google.com.  And not even with images.  On the bright side, at least it's no longer defaulting me to Google-Poland, like the old version was!  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I notice it asks for those fonts *a lot* (first screenshot).  But eventually (when it feels like working) it will load the page (second screenshot, Google search for "amiga").  I didn't get much further than this, it ran out of memory and started giving "Timeout was reached" messages in the Output window.

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I managed to quit the program and it only returned about 12MB of memory.  Not surprisingly, 37MB was still tied up in the cache.    This might not be an issue for me if I could get it to run from disk (and put it's cache on disk), but so far I've had zero success with that.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Okay, last comment for a while, I promise!  (I really do, I need to run to the hardware store before it closes).  I finally got you a log!  I saved it to SYS:, so this time, when it crashed, at least I had something recoverable for you!  Enjoy!  

(note: it crashed during the process of scanning for fonts, before the application had even fully loaded.  If I run it without -V, from Workbench, and from the ram disk, it usually runs better than this.  That seems to be the "winning combination" for me, right now )

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

I can load google with 32mb ram, so there must be something wrong in your setup. Propably BB3/4

Bah.  Everybody likes to blame BB3/4.  All it is is a collection of updated programs and libraries, anybody can read the changelog for themselves and make or reverse the changes it makes.  Today I "updated" my system from 1.0g to 1.0k by going over the changelog, and making sure I'd done all of them.  My system is stable except for when testing NetSurf.  I will check on that diskfont.library though, because I've heard of issues with it (hence why I mentioned what version I was using).

Not trying to sound like a smartass here, but if a program fails when using the latest versions of libraries and utilities, chances are I don't want to run it.  Life is too short to be flipping around libraries and whatnot, just for one program.    But, I'll keep playing around with it.  Sometimes I like a challenge.  

Netsurf can be promoted to use fast ram, just tried.

How do you change its cache and memory options?  Oh, it uses fast ram on mine, all right.  About 53 megabytes worth (most of that as cache), just to load Google!  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

What filesystem are you using?  I'd like to know why it is crashing when on HDD.
It might be worth trying it on HDD again with the disk cache disabled, in case it is that causing it.

Great!  I should have time to check out that Choices file tonight.  I managed to get into the preferences within the program (through one of the pull-down menus), and found all the tabs were blank!  

Oh, and I should've mentioned file system!  This is exactly what I was thinking, only I was too busy rambling about other stuff to put it into words.  I'm running the latest version of PFS3-AIO from Aminet, and I would bet good money that NetSurf and PFS3 are not getting along.  That's why it "almost always" runs from RAM:, but crashes immediately when trying to run from disk.  If I were a detective, I'd say I think we found a clue.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Problem is not a filesystem, I have excatly same both of my Amigas, so no problem there.

Well dog-gonnit, and here I thought maybe we were on to something.  

Today's experiments:

• Edited the Users/Default/Choices file to add the line: disc_cache_size:0
• Tried to load NetSurf from my default location (SYS:Internet/NetSurf).  System accessed the disk for a fraction of a second, then became completely unresponsive (mouse pointer wouldn't move, etc.).  Had to give it the three-finger salute.
• Copied the NetSurf directory to my Fat95-formatted SD card, assigned it, and tried to run it from there.  System accessed the disk for a fraction of a second then Guru'd.  So this pretty much confirms it's not a strictly a PFS issue.
• Copied the NetSurf directory to RAM: and assigned it there.  Program loaded with "the usual problems" (asking for TBImages: assign, where is that supposed to be, anyway?  and a million font errors).

Disabling the cache had a huge effect on my available memory - I was able to load www.google.com and still have 46MB free.  Before disabling that the program would consume every bit of memory I had.  So, thanks for that tip!  Maybe I should try setting it to something reasonable, like 10MB or so?

Also I'm still not getting images.  I got them before with one of the previous builds.  Does NetSurf not like the WarpDT datatypes?


Conclusion:  NetSurf clearly doesn't like something on my system, and it appears to be specifically disk-related.  Could be my version of GVP ROM.  Could be my SCSI card reader, or some setting therein (MaxTransfer, Mask, etc.).  Could be my accelerator, since that provides the SCSI interface.  Could be some pecularity with my install of PFS3, or the way I have my drives partitioned.

Hell, it could still be something completely off-the-wall like my graphics card or screenmode, or a library somewhere, or even the particular version of Miami I'm using or the fonts I have installed, or my USB stack, or one of my various "speedup patches".  Heh.  It's a mystery why everything else works fine, I can browse with IBrowse, etc., but NetSurf throws a fit.  Oh well, I'll keep poking at it!  I suspect if we ever figure it out, it'll turn out to be something really dumb.  


Side note - is there an option setting to make it open not full-screen?  I like to see my available memory at the top, haha.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Oh, looks like I spoke too soon about the images.  amiga.org gives them.  Well, sort of.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Unrelated side-note:  NetSurf does not seem to close cleanly.  After exiting the application, I am unable to delete the following files (screenshot attached).  Says they are still in use.  Obviously not a huge issue, but just FYI.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Thanks!  Adding friend_bitmap:1 to the Choices file does seem to have improved rendering (screenshot attached).

Any idea what are the parameters for disc_cache_size:?  I wanted to set it to a moderate size, 10MB.  I entered "10000" in the field, assuming it was in KB, but it promptly used up 100% of my available memory.  So I tried "1000" in the field, and it still used up all of my available memory.  (I am still running it from RAM:, I just wanted to be generous and give it a little more, haha)

On the bright side, the Right-Amiga+Q key combination does work to quit the application when it's run completely out of memory.  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

EDIT:
Do you have information regarding the version of AISS (see my first posting #625 today)?

I saw that and was confused about it, as well.  To a layman, one of the things I struggled with is the lack of documentation on this project.  Not to say that Chris isn't doing great work, the browser definitely works on classic systems, but obviously it's not without issues.  It's a big project for just one guy.

Anyhow, if you're trying to run this on a classic system you need to download the version from this thread, AISS is not required (at least I didn't need to install it, I'm running OS3.9 + BB1-4 + WarpDT's).  Just unpack the archive, run the installer, it installs to a directory, assign NetSurf: to point that directory, and run it from the icon.  You'll probably want to play around with the config options, there's a a few tips on those buried somewhere in this thread, haha.

Good luck, post a screenshot when you get it running!  

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

if someone can program this much someone else should be able to read through few pages of the thread.

By "a few" you mean 32 pages and 630 comments, right?  :laughing:

[Oldsmobile_Mike]

Now you got me!
WTF is "TBImages"

I don't think anyone knows.  

With older builds it was an issue every time you started the program it would ask for the assign "TBImages:".  I would just assign it where ever, like pointing to the program directory, it didn't seem to make a difference.  In any case, sounds like it's been fixed now so it's not something you'll need to worry about.  

Edit: oh, and +1 to the tip about friend_bitmap:1.  Made a big difference for me!