Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Does a GVP A2000-RAM8 MEMORY work in an A4000 with Zorro3 ???  (Read 4469 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline patrik

@Effy:

The CV64/3D will initialize as a ZorroIII-card in the A3000/A4000 and thus its memory will be mapped in the ZorroIII-range of adresses. This means that the Ramcard will not interfere with a CV64/3D.

I must just say that I dont recommend adding ram to an A4000 using a ZorroII card as it will be very slow and if used heavily it will eat up possible ZorroIII bandwidth for graphics-cards etc.

A ZorroII-card has a maximum theoretical transferrate of 3.5MB/Sec (if no special tricks are used as with the Delfina flipper). If a ZorroII-card is used in an A3000/A4000, the percentage a ZorroII-card uses of the maximum 3.5MB/Sec bandwidth will remove an equal percentage of the usable ZorroIII-bandwidth in an A3000/A4000.

To show the impact I am gonna give an example. Lets first assume that the maximum bandwidth of the Zorro-bus in a A3000/A4000 using ZorroIII-cycles is 16MB/Sec (its exact value doesnt really matter). I also assume that all cards used in this example are of no-waitstate type for the sake of easy comparision.

If a ZorroII-RAM-card uses 50% of its possible bandwidth during a given period of time (that would equal to 1.75MB/Sec), it would then during that given period of time remove 50% of the ZorroIII-bandwidth resulting in only 8MB/Sec (0.5 * 16) bandwidth being available for ZorroIII-cards.

Had this RAM-card been a ZorroIII RAM-card instead it would have left 14.25MB/Sec (16 - 1.75) of bandwidth availible for ZorroIII-cards.


/Patrik
 

Offline patrik

Re: Does a GVP A2000-RAM8 MEMORY work in an A4000 with Zorro3 ???
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2004, 08:25:33 PM »
@Effy:

Well, the Impact Series II is quite special if I remember correctly, but it is still a ZorroII-card. The special thing about it is however that it in contrast to other ZorroII scsi-controllers do DMA transfers to/from SCSI disks directly to/from the memory on the board so the Zorro bus isnt utilized by this activity.

What I wanted to say basicly was that ZorroII-cards isnt exactly optimal to use in the Zorro bus of the A3000/A4000. Ofcourse it works fine, but it is very slow and it hogs the bus bandwidth enormously.

So if you have the possibility - avoid ZorroII cards which uses lots of bandwidth (ram expansions, harddrive controller, graphic cards, etc) in the A3000/A4000. ZorroII cards which uses little bandwidth like serial cards etc are perfectly ok to use in the A3000/A4000 though.


/Patrik
 

Offline patrik

Re: Does a GVP A2000-RAM8 MEMORY work in an A4000 with Zorro3 ???
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2004, 09:07:56 PM »
@Lemmink:

The reasons for slowdown with the A2091 and no ZorroII fastmem comes from the fact that the only thing ZorroII cards can DMA to/from in a ZorroIII system is chipmem and ZorroII fastmem. So the slowdown in that case comes from the fact that the A2091 is doing DMA to/from buffers in chipmem.

The reason why I am so anti ZorroII in a ZorroIII system is that the ZorroII cards use many times more "possible" bandwidth on the Zorro-bus than ZorroIII-cards. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the percentage of maximum ZorroII bandwidth a ZorroII-card uses is equal to the percentage of ZorroIII bandwidth that lost.

Only using a ZorroII ram-expansion would as you say not be used until all other faster memory is used, so a ram-expansion only would be ok I guess even if it is rather pointless.

Though using a ZorroII scsi-controller is very uneffective and there are a number of scenarios of uneffectiveness ;):

1. You have no ZorroII fastmem and a controller using DMA:
Data will be shuffled to buffers in chipmem over the Zorro-bus using DMA and then the cpu will be working on the buffers in chipmem.

2. You have no ZorroII fastmem and a controller not using DMA:
Data will be shuffled over the Zorro bus by the cpu to 32-bit memory and then the cpu will be working on the buffers in 32-bit memory.

3. You have ZorroII fastmem and a controller using DMA:
Data will be shuffled to buffers in ZorroII fastmem over the Zorro-bus using DMA and then the cpu will be working on the buffers in ZorroII fastmem.

4. You have ZorroII fastmem and a controller not using DMA:
Data will be shuffled over the Zorro bus by the cpu to 32-bit memory and then the cpu will be working on the buffers in 32-bit memory.

5. You have a special controller like the Impact series II:
Data will be shuffled to buffers in the memory of the Impact Series II card without touching the Zorro bus by the DMA and then the CPU will be working on the buffers in the ZorroII-memory of the Impact Series II.

Scenario 1 is extremely bad because of the chipmem and scenario 3 is extremely bad because of the double data transfers on the Zorro bus. Scenario 2 and 4 are also very bad because they need the cpu to do all the work, but it only hogs the bus half as much as scenario 3. Scenario 5 is the most sensible of them, but they are all bad from a performance perspective and a bus hoging perspective.

One more reason a ZorroII card is bad in a ZorroIII system is because the thing that makes DMA stand out is lost as ZorroII cards  cant move data directly to the fastest memory closest to the cpu.

blablabla.. ;).


/Patrik
 

Offline patrik

Re: Does a GVP A2000-RAM8 MEMORY work in an A4000 with Zorro3 ???
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2004, 09:12:29 AM »
@Effy:

Quote

This is my answer to all the help you guys gave me and I hope you will be happy now  :-D


:)

Quote

Please don“t tell me I made a big mistake ...


Excellent choice.

Have fun! :)


/Patrik