Things dont look good for piratebay

[Methuselas]

The world is slowly becoming Orwellian.



I can't *WAIT* for the Thought Police. :roll:



"If you feel you are not properly sedated, call immediately. Failure to do so may result in prosecution for criminal, drug evasion".

You know, I wonder what record companies would do, if someone were to file a class action suit for fraud and price gouging against them? It's a known fact that several musicians, one of them being Nine Inch Nails, actively supported the pirating of their music, due to obscene prices charged by record companies.

The average CD costs 20$ now. Multiply that by 200 CDs (I had more, but lost them over the years). That's 4 grand. Multiply that by 100,000 consumers, complaining. That's 400$ million.

Band's rarely get a share of the CD sales. They make their money, from touring, most of which is at their own expense. It's hard to make money touring, unless you're packing big stadiums. Record companies rarely see any of that. On top of that, if a band's freshman album is lackluster in the eyes of the record company, they're immediately dropped. That's why you have all this carbon copy bullsh!t out on the radio. It's all corporate musicians.

The rich just get richer on the backs of the poor.

A shame.

[Methuselas]

motorollin wrote:

QFT.

It really irritates me when people drag up Orwell and start whinging about civil liberties when the individuals in questions were arrested for something WHICH IS ILLEGAL.

*I* brought it up. Consequently, from a legal standpoint, they did nothing wrong. At most, they should have been issued a cease-and-desist from the parent companies. If the RIAA is going to sue them for millions, they'd better go after a) every ISP that's connected globally and b)CERN for creating the World Wide Web. After all, if they hadn't created it, in the first place, there would have been no Napster, WinMX, Limewire, PirateBay, and so many others.

If you actually read Orwell (and really read it properly), you will find that the society he described is not about prosecuting the guilty, it is about controlling the innocent. That's completely different to what's happening here.

Actually, what's happening here is a perfect example of absolute power and control. The record companies would spend in excess of what they were "awarded" just to achieve "victory". When you have money, you win court cases. It's that simple and it's like that, all over the world. If they wanted to and needed to, they could tie up litigation for years. Look at the first OJ Simpson trial. Hell, look at Hyperion VS. Amiga, Inc. All court systems, regardless of the country are similar and *ALL* are guilty of being corrupted.

Ok, nobody likes big record or film companies making millions, and nobody likes the fact that these industries are so commercialised that it's practically impossible for indies to be successful.

No one has also tried to stop them. I work in the film/game industry. I've also worked in the music industry. Trust me, those execs are more concerned about their posh houses and having five cars in the driveway, etc., than "promoting" art.

Indies *ARE* becoming successful, albeit slowly, 'cos bands are tired of dealing with record companies. Once again, I go back to Trent Reznor, who left Nothing Records, his own label, 'cos he was tired of Interscope. He told Australians to pirate his last DVD release, as it was priced at 80AUD, which is preposterous. He was also burned by TVT Records. Many bands are leaving record companies and going solo, 'cos it's the only way for them to a) make their music cheap and accessible to the masses and b) to actually make money off the presses.

But that doesn't change the fact that copyright theft is illegal.

So are Monopolies, but Microsoft is still around. It's all about money and who has it. 'Nuff said.

Also, I fail to see how piracy helps artists to get a larger cut of CD sales, so don't really know why the big chunk taken by the label is used as justification for illegally distributing others' work.

Okay, I apparently didn't make myself clear on this one. Record Companies get 99.98% of record sales. Unless, of course, you're Metallicops, who maybe get 2$ per CD sale, but those frakkers are already rich, no better than the record execs and are the one's who started this whole thing in the first place.The average band pulls 25 CENTS per CD sale. So, that means on average, 19.75$ goes to record companies for "printing and distribution costs". Bands make money, solely from touring.

Here's the caveat. When buying presses, en masse, the average cost of a CD is around a NICKEL, including inlays. In addition, most record companies own their own publishing houses, who do the art and promotion of CDs, in house. To compound that, most consumer businesses, such as Best Buy and FYE, have to *BUY* licenses for the right to sell the CDs/DVDs in stores. That means, they have to pay for the right to sell say an Island, Sire or Warner Bros. album or movie.

Yeah, they're *REALLY* hurting for money...... :roll:

You want to support a band, go pay 50$ to buy a ticket. Odds are, the record company *LOANED* them money to go on tour.

[Methuselas]

I know, my comments weren't directed at stefcep2. They weren't even fully directed at you. I was trying to make a more general comment about the current trend in describing our society as "Orwellian" when really I don't feel it is anything of the sort.

I never said they were. However, it's quite obvious that American is slowly becoming more and more like Oceania.

ISTR seeing an interview with the founders of TPB in which they stated that they have ignored requests to cease and desist.

And they were duly sued under the context of the laws. I never said that TPB was *RIGHT* in what they were doing. I was merely pointing out that record companies are purporting unjust actions, when they themselves are notorious for price gouging, putting bands in debt to the company, etc.

It goes both ways, Moto. That was my whole point. Two wrongs, don't make a right.

Yeah, and lets sue the people who build roads because they are responsible for people speeding :roll:

It was obvious my sarcasm was missed on you.

... over their property. I don't see why people have such a problem with that.

They typically do not *OWN* the songs, ie their "property". In fact, most record companies only have a *LICENSE* to resell and distribute. Most bands nowadays are smart enough to hold on to ownership of said songs. Some, however, such as the Beatles were not so lucky.....

How they spend their money is their business. The amount it costs compared to the amount they are awarded bears no relevance to the legality of TPB.

I never said it did. What I was saying is that record compaines are businesses in the business to make money. Plain and simple. If a band doesn't make money, they're dropped. Bands make money off of touring and merchandise sales, almost *NEVER* off of record sales. Note, few bands are raising an uproar over pirated music.

Record companies knew they would win, not because they were "right" (nor am I saying they were "wrong", either), but because they knew their pockets were deeper than the "forces" of TPB. Even if they lost, they have 28 appeals (something which is, in reality, atrocious that in of itself) to try again. They could spend millions or billions, if they chose. They don't care if it's tied up in litigation for years, 'cos they can just keep jacking up the prices to offset the lost. It's called commercialism.

Fine, and that's their decision. But for the ones who chose to sign a contract with a label, presumably they knew the cut they would get when they agreed to the contract, and they know the degree of ownership the label would have of the material. If they sign the rights over to the label, then the label is justified in seeking justice if the material is distributed illegally.

It's not that cut and dry, Moto. There's a lot of tricks that companies can pull in contracts to lessen the "cut" of the other party. They can claim that due to "gas prices increasing", a substantial amount of capital was lost in the manufacturing of CDs for the mass market, which drops the "cut" of the band, for example.

And they don't even have to give proof, as to "why"....

Yes, sometimes illegal activity goes unpunished.

Which, once again, returns to my point about how if you have money, you win court cases. If I'm suing you over something and I have a 100 million to spend and you have 10$, who do you think is going to win? Seriously.....

Or legal systems are no longer about blind justice. It's about who has the most money and who's hands are in who's pockets. If you've got the money, you can tie up litigation for years, until you find a judge who's sympathetic to your case, who will in turn, judge in favor of you. That's how the system works now.

I never said that TPB was right. My whole point was how frivilous the lawsuit was. These record companies will never get the money from the makers of TPB, 'cos they don't have it and quite frankly, will refuse to pay it. I don't agree with that, but at the same time, it doesn't matter if they do and the RIAA does, indeed, get TPB close, 'cos half a dozen other sites just like it will pop up.



Lastly, to all you ********who gave me *NEGATIVE* rep for and I'm quoting one of you, verbatim in toto:

"  Rationalizing why it is okay to steal from some people does not make theft any less immoral."

I never *SAID* it was okay to steal from some people, *******! I was merely pointing out that this was just another example of corporations using money to exploit the legal system. The closest thing I even said to such a thing was relaying that Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails told his fans to pirate *HIS* music, feeling *THEY* were getting taken advantage of by the record companies. Never once in my posts did I ever say that it was "okay to use TPB to illegally download music you didn't pay for (sic)".

I know you're all thinking you're holier than thou, but you're not. Not a single person on this forum can say they haven't at least once pirated a game, software, music or anything for *ANY* type of computer system, console, etc and not be a hypocritical ******** and a liar.....