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Operating System Specific Discussions => Other Operating Systems => CommodoreUSA Amiga => Topic started by: Iggy on September 02, 2010, 05:04:10 AM

Title: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Iggy on September 02, 2010, 05:04:10 AM
After a few vitriolic message from me and couple sent back, I've agreed to call Mr. Altman tomorrow to discuss his company at its business plans.
Many of you know me and opinions about this company and its plans from postings I've made in response to the messages posted about Commodore USA.

So, to say the least, this may be a somewhat contentious conversation. However, Barry's of the opinion that if I give him a fair hearing I'll be swayed by what he has to say.

So, now is your chance, folks. If there's anything you think I ought to ask, post it now.
I'll try to have a concise outline of what I want to cover when I talk to him.

I'll post a summary of our conversation tomorrow.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: CSixx on September 02, 2010, 05:12:12 AM
Sure, ask him how being a douche and threatening legal action on an opinion piece is good for his new startup?

:)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: the_leander on September 02, 2010, 05:14:20 AM
Why did he feel it was acceptable to take a well known piece of art (the fantasy amiga rendering) remove the name of the artist as well as alter the actual work?

Further, does he realise that copy pasting inapplicable law makes him look like a 'tard?
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: F1Lupo on September 02, 2010, 05:19:24 AM
ya STAY AWAY from any dealings with AI unless you want their curse on your new startup company.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: LoadWB on September 02, 2010, 05:58:13 AM
I, for one, am curious to know if he has any direct dealings with anyone involved with AROS, or if it is just a, "hey, we're Amiga, see?!" stunt.  In reality, this COULD be a good thing, but it really has gotten off to a bad start.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: MaximvsPayne on September 02, 2010, 07:34:49 AM
:furious::madashell::bitch::confused::(:hammer::rtfm::flame::uzi::destroy::shocked::eek::crazy::anger::evil:

the two most worst firms of all time (commodore usa and amiga inc) are here to destroy the amiga even more. this is a joke, who can take firms with webpages like commodore usa serious? this is such a nightmare, im searching for words but hardly can find some... terrible. i want to wake up, 1 2 freddy comes for you - damnit!!
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: MaximvsPayne on September 02, 2010, 07:41:39 AM
hyperion, aeon and acube should merge to one firm and kick amiga incs a*s :hammer:

i would also like to see the morphos team in this firm. all that together would be much more amiga than these moneyhungry beasts from commomiga usa (and dont forget, this way we would have ready products and not only stolen pictures and token down webpages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

aaarrgghh
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: hooligan on September 02, 2010, 09:31:40 AM
Quote from: MaximvsPayne;577266
hyperion, aeon and acube should merge to one firm and kick amiga incs a*s :hammer:


a) I think you are mistaken about the sizes of these companies
b) Amiga inc can't be killed. Amiga Inc's like the worst kind of cancer.. it will resurface, always
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: redrumloa on September 02, 2010, 01:47:41 PM
I look forward to hearing what is said.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: jorkany on September 02, 2010, 01:59:02 PM
Quote from: Iggy;577251
So, now is your chance, folks. If there's anything you think I ought to ask, post it now.

Will CommodoreUSA be appearing at AmiWest?
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: swoslover on September 02, 2010, 02:18:20 PM
perhaps some details about the comode operating system?
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: jj on September 02, 2010, 02:43:30 PM
was that a rather apt typo :)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: tone007 on September 02, 2010, 02:46:13 PM
Clever idea though, instead of a Recycle Bin/Trash Can, the desktop can have a toilet icon deleted files go into.  Right click, "Flush Commode!"
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Arkhan on September 02, 2010, 02:57:27 PM
Quote from: tone007;577329
Clever idea though, instead of a Recycle Bin/Trash Can, the desktop can have a toilet icon deleted files go into.  Right click, "Flush Commode!"


yeah, if its for this new project I'm sure it'll be full of a ton of piss n' shit anyways.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: LoadWB on September 02, 2010, 03:09:22 PM
Quote from: tone007;577329
Clever idea though, instead of a Recycle Bin/Trash Can, the desktop can have a toilet icon deleted files go into.  Right click, "Flush Commode!"


I like the idea presented here.  But there should also be animated flies which circle the toilet if you let things sit a few days -- I have seen peoples' Recycle Bins with files from literally YEARS ago.  But that is a convo for another thread, I think.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Iggy on September 02, 2010, 08:39:05 PM
OK folks, here it is:

I spent a little less than an hour talking to Barry Altman today. As we already know, Commodore USA, LLC is a legitimate Florida corporation.

They do have one product to sell currently named "Phoenix" which he admits is basically the same as a similar computer sold by Cybernet.

Yes, he does own a company that imports and distributes bathroom vanities. But he isn't trying to hide this, any other facts relevant to himself or Commodore USA from anyone. In fact he's encouraged anyone interested in a civil conversation to contact him and he's more than willing to provide answers to any questions you have. In his words "I don't lie, I don't bullsh*t".

He also admits that the website, in his own words, is "fu*king awful" and is currently considering ways to improve it. He claims that he used of images he didn't create, after searches to find the content owner were friutless, and that he would still like to contact the images' creator.

He does seem serious about the PC64 (which is just in the beginning of its design) and an X86 Amiga (for which rights have just been secured), but he's a little disturbed by some of the negative posts he's read.

With a background in business, I can understand part of his confusion. Some of you responding are just thrilled to see these names back in production again. Others have a lot of bagage due to past unfullfilled promises and the understandable concern that this might just be a con (like so many other announcements in the past). Some of the comments from this side have been pretty extreme.

Well, it doesn't appear to be a con. And when you think about it he has a point, how (considering the small size of our market) would he profit from that? No, Altman appears to just be a savvy businessman who recognizes that the Commodore name still has brand recognition.

I can't fault his logic on the decision to license the Commodore name. As to Amiga, well if Bill McEwen still has the right to sell the name, then this was probably inevitable. Frankly, I wish Hyperion and A-eon luck, but their market is focused on us (the hobbyists). Currently a PPC based AOS powered system isn't a product for the average consumer. Altman isn't pushing any alternative system. He stated that he uses Linux, but was concerned about AROS' viability as a product for the consumer market. Further he stated the Commodore USA products would also support Windows (and that OSX might even be a possibility - for the consumer, I don't think he wants to worry about issues revolving around installing that).

I have about three pages of notes. This covers some major points, not all of them though. If you've got any specific points, I can try to address them OR you can take them directly to Barry.

Hey, I'm not concerned with the label on my PC, but some of you might be. Any of you AROS users that may want a sense of validation, you may be able to run your OS on a Commodore branded Amiga PC soon. And C64 fans, your going to get one serious unusual Christmas gift - a PC in a C64 shell. That'll confuse your family, friends and associates.

I'm sure there's more to come on this. So, as Redrumloa has pointed out, we need to remain calm, polite, and have some perspective. These announcements aren't the end of the world. AROS may now have something/someone in their corner that strengthens their position (whoever is in charge - you ought to contact Altman). The rest of us, were hardly going to be damaged by someone who can afford to pick these brands a run with them.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: mongo on September 02, 2010, 10:09:23 PM
Barry's business practices seem to be less than honest.

For example :

http://www.commodoreusa.citymax.com/f/PHOENIXGUIDE__copy.doc.pdf

http://ftp://209.35.190.68/ZPC9100%20V%201.02%20DRIVERS/ZPC9100_Manual.pdf

You can clearly see "ZPC9100" on the motherboard picture in the instructions for installing the memory in the Commodore USA Phoenix manual.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Piru on September 02, 2010, 11:14:27 PM
Quote from: Iggy;577383
He claims that he used of images he didn't create, after searches to find the content owner were friutless, and that he would still like to contact the images' creator.
Can you elaborate this? Does he really think it's ok to use graphics and designs if he cannot contact the author? I can't believe any CEO to that out of touch with reality.

This is just totally outrageous.

I would very much like that you ask him if he thinks copyright is a joke to him. Also he might be interested to read 10 Big Myths about copyright explained (http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html).

As for not being able to contact the Marko Hirv... Well he isn't exactly hiding you know, he works as Art Director at Taevas, estonian advertising company. I believe this is him: http://www.flickr.com/photos/adelltaevas/2440196147/ and here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/adelltaevas/2441025952/

Adell Taevas OÜ
Tartu mnt 10
4. korrus / 4 th floor
tel + 372 610 5800
ilm@taevas.ee

Anyone with a bit of googling can find him easily.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: bbond007 on September 02, 2010, 11:27:34 PM
I don't think a legitimate south Florida corporation exists. The land of scams!

The US starts in Boca.

I wonder if this is a division of Psystar(the Mac ppl) which is based in Doral FL - and is reportedly run out of an 18 wheeler.

Wait, I said to much... if McBill finds out you can run a shady company out of an 18 wheeler in south Florida - That will be the new Amiga.com HQ.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Iggy on September 03, 2010, 12:12:53 AM
Quote from: mongo;577399
Barry's business practices seem to be less than honest.

For example :

http://www.commodoreusa.citymax.com/f/PHOENIXGUIDE__copy.doc.pdf

http://ftp://209.35.190.68/ZPC9100%20V%201.02%20DRIVERS/ZPC9100_Manual.pdf

You can clearly see "ZPC9100" on the motherboard picture in the instructions for installing the memory in the Commodore USA Phoenix manual.

Yes, I probably should  have mentioned that in my posting, since he brought that up. The Phoenix is essentially the same as the Cybernet computer.

So, I'd have to say, not only are you right but that the pictures in both manuals appear to be exactly the same.

I don't think he'd deny that. Especially since you can compare the two documents and see where the Commodore document uses the same photos as the Cybernet document. Since both are copyrighted, unless Cybernet has a problem with this its not really an issue.

The issue is whether or not the PC 64 gets built. The Amiga could be assembled from standard computer parts, in fact could be purchased whole from another company. However, the C64's case isn't going to appear in anyone else's product. Now, if he manages to present this product for sale, he'll have at least proven he can offer something unique.

I'll give him till Christmas, and maybe even a little longer, but if he can't produce what he's announced then he's dishonest. Until then, he's just doing what plenty of other small computer resellers do.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: takemehomegrandma on September 03, 2010, 12:16:08 AM
Quote from: Iggy;577383
OK folks, here it is:


Thanks for the effort, and thanks for the info! :)

I look forward to this new Commodore Amiga, and kudos to him for actually doing what many people dreamed about for many years - bringing the Commodore and Amiga brands together again! :)

And if you can install AROS on it, it will be an upswing for AROS as well! :-)

I think 2011 might be the year of Amiga! :-)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: tone007 on September 03, 2010, 12:17:30 AM
-1
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: takemehomegrandma on September 03, 2010, 12:24:38 AM
Quote from: Iggy;577420
Yes, I probably should  have mentioned that in my posting, since he brought that up. The Phoenix is essentially the same as the Cybernet computer.

So, I'd have to say, not only are you right but that the pictures in both manuals appear to be exactly the same.

I don't think he'd deny that. Especially since you can compare the two documents and see where the Commodore document uses the same photos as the Cybernet document. Since both are copyrighted, unless Cybernet has a problem with this its not really an issue.

The issue is whether or not the PC 64 gets built. The Amiga could be assembled from standard computer parts, in fact could be purchased whole from another company. However, the C64's case isn't going to appear in anyone else's product. Now, if he manages to present this product for sale, he'll have at least proven he can offer something unique.

I'll give him till Christmas, and maybe even a little longer, but if he can't produce what he's announced then he's dishonest. Until then, he's just doing what plenty of other small computer resellers do.


Yup, when did branding and rebranding become something ugly? What's so different from slapping on an Amiga sticker on a Teron? Oh wait, the Teron never had Amiga stickers... ;)

Seriously, he is obviously running a pure trading company, and there is nothing wrong with this. He has now obtained the right to sell some stuff under the Amiga marks. Great! :) AFAIK he has never claimed to have been developing anything. He is putting together components from various sources, like hardware, OS and fun trademarks, in order to create something that can be perceived as something slightly more valuable than the components separately. I think people should just give him a break...

:)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: mongo on September 03, 2010, 12:25:12 AM
From section 6.2 of the Commodore USA Phoenix manual :

Commodore USA, LLC has consistently won recognition for excellence in the
design and manufacturing of high quality products. Please visit our website at:
http://www.commodoreusa.net to see the very latest information on all of our exciting,
new products.

Uh.. What?
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: TheGoose on September 03, 2010, 12:26:34 AM
Wow , he's a savvy business man because he knows "Commodore" still has brand recognition! Golly I never thought of that, Wow.

Almost like a double rainbow!

Iggy. No.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: mongo on September 03, 2010, 12:32:24 AM
Quote from: Iggy;577420
Yes, I probably should  have mentioned that in my posting, since he brought that up. The Phoenix is essentially the same as the Cybernet computer.

So, I'd have to say, not only are you right but that the pictures in both manuals appear to be exactly the same.


It is not essentially the same, it is exactly the same.

Quote

I don't think he'd deny that. Especially since you can compare the two documents and see where the Commodore document uses the same photos as the Cybernet document.


Well, the photo of the heatsink has the Cybernet name poorly photoshopped off.

Quote

Since both are copyrighted, unless Cybernet has a problem with this its not really an issue.


Uh... Both are copyrighted by different companies. I can't just take something written by someone else and change a few names and claim it as my own.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: tone007 on September 03, 2010, 12:38:38 AM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;577423
Yup, when did branding and rebranding become something ugly? What's so different from slapping on an Amiga sticker on a Teron? Oh wait, the Teron never had Amiga stickers...


Commodore and Amiga were something original and different. Taking run of the mill PCs that don't do anything that any other PC on the market (from established vendors with real reputations and real support) can do and branding them Commodore/Amiga to play on the fond memories people have of the names from their early computing experiences (the "good old days" which most seem so eager to reclaim) for nothing but profit is very lame.

Bring on the original product, even if it's only a replica C64 case.  At least that'd show a bit more effort than doing some paperwork and ordering generic computers.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: mongo on September 03, 2010, 12:50:48 AM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;577423
Yup, when did branding and rebranding become something ugly? What's so different from slapping on an Amiga sticker on a Teron? Oh wait, the Teron never had Amiga stickers... ;)

Seriously, he is obviously running a pure trading company, and there is nothing wrong with this. He has now obtained the right to sell some stuff under the Amiga marks. Great! :) AFAIK he has never claimed to have been developing anything. He is putting together components from various sources, like hardware, OS and fun trademarks, in order to create something that can be perceived as something slightly more valuable than the components separately. I think people should just give him a break...

:)


Really?

http://www.commodoreusa.net/press.html

In response to an overwhelming demand from former Commodore users worldwide, Commodore USA’s CTO Leo Nigro announced today that their new Commodore PC64 will be available for purchase this holiday season. Featuring an exact replica of the original beige chassis Commodore C64, this new addition to our lineup will include an Intel Atom 525 CPU with NVIDIA Ion2 graphics, 4GB DDR3 memory, 1TB Hdd, HDMI, DVD/CD optical drive (Blu-ray optional), dual-link DVI, six USB ports, integrated 802.11n WiFi, bluetooth and a 6-in-1 media card reader.

About Commodore USA, LLC:

Commodore USA, LLC designs, produces and markets a series of all-in-one Commodore branded keyboard computers, and other unique form factor computers and consumer electronics.

Kind of makes it sound like they design, produce and market a series of all-in-one Commodore branded keyboard computers, and other unique form factor computers and consumer electronics, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: actung_bab on September 03, 2010, 01:12:05 AM
chould you ask about where this leaves hyperion and all work they have put in
and just leaves bit of confusion about where and what a amiga pc is or chould be
to me of course right for people to make a buck and good on them but , not that my opion counts as l dont make hard ware or software and not affected in any way money wise
but to stop hyperion and others of making the choice to port to x 86 in there contact many years ago . whos knows gateway might wanted this as there pc maker , but to then
say hay guess what we making x86 machines with Aros just as hyperion are about to make good on there hard work over many many years just seems wrong.
And think amiga people arent silly they can see people that actualy follow through and
the old saying actions speak lounder than words springs to mind.
And chould you just say l was feeling postive about amiga as hobby with likes of amiga round table and even when they made the annoucment about this deal l was bit confused as l though hyperion had legal rights to os 3.1 and amiga brand
okay thats okay for me l guess . but this big but l read about legal fights and sueing l just turned of all toghter . just brings everone down l mean whats the postive in that
surley if your got a idea a product you want focus on that and use all your energy to that agghhhh

just my 10 cents worth
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Iggy on September 03, 2010, 01:14:44 AM
Quote from: tone007;577429
Commodore and Amiga were something original and different. Taking run of the mill PCs that don't do anything that any other PC on the market (from established vendors with real reputations and real support) can do and branding them Commodore/Amiga to play on the fond memories people have of the names from their early computing experiences (the "good old days" which most seem so eager to reclaim) for nothing but profit is very lame.

Bring on the original product, even if it's only a replica C64 case.  At least that'd show a bit more effort than doing some paperwork and ordering generic computers.

Yes, this is not your father's Commodore. And even if Altman can get the PC 64 ready for sale, its not my cup of tea. But, the introduction of that product will require some creative work. He'll sell a few of those even if it is just a PC.

Is it a legitimate business? Sure appears to be. As he pointed out to me, he is in business to generate a profit (this is a reasonable, hell essential, goal for any business). So why would anyone think its a con? How would he profit from that? He's not asking anyone for money up front and while he may have made these product announcements prematurely, you have to give him credit for one thing. He got the right to use those two trademarks. No one else even considered the possibility.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: tone007 on September 03, 2010, 01:44:22 AM
Quote from: Iggy;577436
No one else even considered the possibility.


..right.  I can think of a couple.  They just all happened to fail!
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Iggy on September 03, 2010, 02:25:04 AM
Quote from: tone007;577445
..right.  I can think of a couple.  They just all happened to fail!

This could fail too. Most new business' fail. It doesn't mean he hasn't got the right to try. Especially if he's negotiated the rights to use the trademarks and the only funds hes risking are his own.

The last attempt to resurrect Indian Motorcycles in the US failed. Someone else will probably try it again in the future. These things happen.

What if he succeeds?
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: dammy on September 03, 2010, 02:36:38 AM
@tone007
Quote
Commodore and Amiga were something original and different. Taking run of the mill PCs that don't do anything that any other PC on the market (from established vendors with real reputations and real support) can do and branding them Commodore/Amiga to play on the fond memories people have of the names from their early computing experiences (the "good old days" which most seem so eager to reclaim) for nothing but profit is very lame.

Funny, I seem to remember saying the same thing about a rebadged Teron MOBO pretending to be an Amiga not too long ago.  Or am I getting that confused with the embedded SoCs based mobo of present and future? ;-)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: jorkany on September 03, 2010, 02:39:44 AM
Quote from: actung_bab;577434
chould you ask about where this leaves hyperion and all work they have put in
and just leaves bit of confusion about where and what a amiga pc is or chould be
to me of course right for people to make a buck and good on them but , not that my opion counts as l dont make hard ware or software and not affected in any way money wise
but to stop hyperion and others of making the choice to port to x 86 in there contact many years ago . whos knows gateway might wanted this as there pc maker , but to then
say hay guess what we making x86 machines with Aros just as hyperion are about to make good on there hard work over many many years just seems wrong.
And think amiga people arent silly they can see people that actualy follow through and
the old saying actions speak lounder than words springs to mind.
And chould you just say l was feeling postive about amiga as hobby with likes of amiga round table and even when they made the annoucment about this deal l was bit confused as l though hyperion had legal rights to os 3.1 and amiga brand
okay thats okay for me l guess . but this big but l read about legal fights and sueing l just turned of all toghter . just brings everone down l mean whats the postive in that
surley if your got a idea a product you want focus on that and use all your energy to that agghhhh

just my 10 cents worth
It's really beginning to look like all Hyperion really needed to do was work with AInc. to rebrand some PCs and optionally load AROS on them - instead they spend years struggling with OS4 and PPC hardware. Just a bad business decision on their part, nothing the consumer should be concerned about.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: tone007 on September 03, 2010, 02:42:29 AM
Quote
What if he succeeds?

Then people will have PCs with Commodore logos on them and he'll get his new sports car.

I couldn't really care less whether or not he got the rights to do it legally, but provided he does of course he has the right to try.  The basic idea of throwing a Commodore or Amiga logo on some generic piece of hardware that doesn't do anything different than any other is just cheesy.

You may have noticed my signature contains a couple of "Commodore" items that are rebranded imports.  I happily bought them for far less than retail value for a laugh when the vendor who was attempting to market them stopped for whatever reason.  Should that happen in this case, I can't say I won't be tempted again!
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: tone007 on September 03, 2010, 02:51:27 AM
Quote from: dammy;577457
@tone007


Funny, I seem to remember saying the same thing about a rebadged Teron MOBO pretending to be an Amiga not too long ago.  Or am I getting that confused with the embedded SoCs based mobo of present and future? ;-)

Not really sure what you're getting at, but the Terons, X1000s, and SAMs actually do something different than a generic x86 PC and have a place, running OS4.1.  Call them whatever you want, but they're required hardware if you want OS4.1.

There are millions upon millions of PCs capable of running Windows, Linux, and AROS.  A few of those will be relabeled Commodore, apparently.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Iggy on September 03, 2010, 03:59:04 AM
Quote from: tone007;577459
Then people will have PCs with Commodore logos on them and he'll get his new sports car.

I couldn't really care less whether or not he got the rights to do it legally, but provided he does of course he has the right to try.  The basic idea of throwing a Commodore or Amiga logo on some generic piece of hardware that doesn't do anything different than any other is just cheesy.

You may have noticed my signature contains a couple of "Commodore" items that are rebranded imports.  I happily bought them for far less than retail value for a laugh when the vendor who was attempting to market them stopped for whatever reason.  Should that happen in this case, I can't say I won't be tempted again!

Yeah, the Commodore netbooks threw me. And in never said the rebranded hardware didn't have a cheese factor.
If you're tech savvy, buying an Intel 915 based Socket 775 system (like the Phoenix) wouldn't have much attraction.
But there's going to be people who snap up the PC 64's just for the nostalgia and the fun of screwing with others' heads.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: LoadWB on September 03, 2010, 05:46:58 AM
Quote from: Iggy;577466
But there's going to be people who snap up the PC 64's just for the nostalgia and the fun of screwing with others' heads.


I have to admit, the prospect of running a server on one of those boxes is rather attractive.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: cicero790 on September 03, 2010, 07:34:37 AM
Quote from: takemehomegrandma;577421
Thanks for the effort, and thanks for the info! :)

I look forward to this new Commodore Amiga, and kudos to him for actually doing what many people dreamed about for many years - bringing the Commodore and Amiga brands together again! :)

And if you can install AROS on it, it will be an upswing for AROS as well! :-)

I think 2011 might be the year of Amiga! :-)


+1

Also, thanks Iggy for the inquiries.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: runequester on September 03, 2010, 07:49:47 AM
I dont really know enough to get into the pros and cons of this particular outfit and whether or not they are reliable or not.

However, it seems pretty obvious that the idea is pretty much the only path forward for "amiga".

x86 hardware, available new, cheap and preferably in a comfy commodore style case to reduce the amount of space it takes up, and running AROS, which is the only amiga os that nobody can take away from us, and the only that runs on standard hardware nowadays.


Whether or not the guy is for real or not, the idea is sound.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: WolfToTheMoon on September 03, 2010, 08:36:51 AM
Hi guys!

A long time lurker and a commodore/amiga user back in the days...

Iggy, thanks for the info I registered only to thank you for doing the right stuff while others seem more bent on calling him names you did what was right to do.

IMHO, this is THE ONLY way of bringing Amiga and Commodore back into mainstream. And mainstream is where money is. Nobody is going to invest in a market for several thousand users.

I will GLADLY buy a commodore machine if it is a quality product. I mean, why not? People already pay more money for brands like MSI, ASUS, ACER... If they(Commodore) can come up with a interesting design that can rival those products I'll give them my money.  I am not a hard core Amigan and therefore I always knew that Hyperion was fundamentally wrong. They really outdid themselves with this X1000 stuff, an obviously overexpensive product which has nowhere to go. This is the only way forward.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: skurk on September 03, 2010, 09:06:43 AM
I'm a long time pessimist and non-believer of C=USA, so I'm going to make this short.  While I admire Barry's efforts and persistence, I simply cannot understand how this will work in the long run.

Sure, a PC that looks like a C64 will sell a few thousands, but then what?  The market is satisfied, where are the next buyers?

It's a PC.  You can buy a small Dell desktop for a few bucks that does the exact same thing, it runs Windows, Linux, AROS and whatnot.  It may not have the same specs, but it's more or less capable of doing the exact same thing.

So then what do you have?  A fancy looking plastic shell?

It's nothing left to make it special.  The magic is gone.

Quote from: WolfToTheMoon;577490
I will GLADLY buy a commodore machine


I'm sorry (and please don't take this as a personal attack) but why would anyone buy a PC just because the case looks special?  I don't give a flying puck what my computer looks like.  Hell, if my A600 was mounted in a beige PC tower I'd still use it.  It's the interior that interest me, not the exterior.

And, to be brutally honest, x86 is as interesting as knitting.  But maybe I'm not exactly Barry's target audience.

Quote
This is the only way forward.


It's not the only way forward, but it's definitely the easiest.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: WolfToTheMoon on September 03, 2010, 09:15:28 AM
Quote from: skurk;577492
I'm sorry (and please don't take this as a personal attack) but why would anyone buy a PC just because the case looks special?  I don't give a flying puck what my computer looks like.  Hell, if my A600 was mounted in a beige PC tower I'd still use it.  It's the interior that interest me, not the exterior.

I didn't say I'd be interested in a PC64. I already have a C64. That said, if it is a good product and I feel I could use it, then maybe yes.

But primarily, I'd be interested in a laptop/netbook. Seeing they have a license on AIO format, a laptop is possible and probably in their plans.

A nicely done aluminium case with a few retro details and a nice screen and I'm sold. I'd be willing to pay above average prices if the product meets above average quality.


P.S. A lot of people buy "just a PC" when it comes with a nice case. Even MORE people buy "just a PC" when it comes with a nice case and a recognizable name.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: curtis on September 03, 2010, 02:08:58 PM
Guess I'll toss my nickel into this thread.

Sorry, guys, but I have to agree, the original Amiga platform is pretty much a dead end.  If you want a new platform for the 68K Amiga, get a Minimig!

If you want the platform to evolve, like it should, you're going to be stuck with the Intel chips.

As far as OS, yeah, Winblows SUCKS!  Linux offers a LOT of potential!

Looking at things, and to be honest I just discovered AROS, AROS may be the way for the Amiga to continue to evolve.

If CUSA and AInc. can get together and put some reliable, and nice designed machines together with AROS, I would be tenpted.  If they just throw a CUSA/AInc. badge on a generic beige box, I'll probably just build my own!

Everybody has the right to try and make a buck.  They also have the right to fail miserably, and, possibly, go to jail if they try to cheat people.

Curtis
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: HammerD on September 03, 2010, 03:31:31 PM
Quote from: Iggy;577449
This could fail too. Most new business' fail. It doesn't mean he hasn't got the right to try. Especially if he's negotiated the rights to use the trademarks and the only funds hes risking are his own.

The last attempt to resurrect Indian Motorcycles in the US failed. Someone else will probably try it again in the future. These things happen.

What if he succeeds?


Iggy, did you ask him anything about:

1) How many employees C= USA has?
2) Does he plan to do any SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT for AROS? Or in any other way to support and promote it?

He's bought the C= name, the Amiga name rights, and plans to sell x86 boxes in old C= style cases and throw on bundled OS's.   Not very exciting and not interesting if he doesn't plan to support and augment AROS development.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: jj on September 03, 2010, 03:32:54 PM
To throw my view in here.
 
Anyone who thinks windows sucks is blinded by Microsoft hatred.  Anyone who thinks MacOS is king is deluded.
 
Anyone who thinks Amiga can make any sort of comeback outside of ourr small niche hobby market is deluded.
 
Enjoy things for what they are.  And for god sake try out MorphOS if you can.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: RRunner on September 03, 2010, 04:41:50 PM
Quote from: JJ;577536
To throw my view in here.
 
Anyone who thinks windows sucks is blinded by Microsoft hatred.  Anyone who thinks MacOS is king is deluded.
 
Anyone who thinks Amiga can make any sort of comeback outside of ourr small niche hobby market is deluded.
 
Enjoy things for what they are.  And for god sake try out MorphOS if you can.


Well said...
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: hooligan on September 03, 2010, 04:43:58 PM
Quote from: JJ;577536
To throw my view in here.
 
Anyone who thinks windows sucks is blinded by Microsoft hatred.  Anyone who thinks MacOS is king is deluded.
 
Anyone who thinks Amiga can make any sort of comeback outside of ourr small niche hobby market is deluded.
 
Enjoy things for what they are.  And for god sake try out MorphOS if you can.


Agree on ALL accounts. I might add, anyone who thinks Linux-variants are for casual computer-user are deluded as well ;)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: runequester on September 03, 2010, 04:44:34 PM
Quote from: JJ;577536
To throw my view in here.
 
Anyone who thinks windows sucks is blinded by Microsoft hatred.  Anyone who thinks MacOS is king is deluded.
 
Anyone who thinks Amiga can make any sort of comeback outside of ourr small niche hobby market is deluded.
 
Enjoy things for what they are.  And for god sake try out MorphOS if you can.


actually, I think windows sucks because it can't do what I need it to do.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Franko on September 03, 2010, 04:57:11 PM
Quote from: JJ;577536
To throw my view in here.
 
Anyone who thinks windows sucks is blinded by Microsoft hatred.  Anyone who thinks MacOS is king is deluded.
 
Anyone who thinks Amiga can make any sort of comeback outside of ourr small niche hobby market is deluded.
 
Enjoy things for what they are.  And for god sake try out MorphOS if you can.


Have to agree here...

I am blinded by Microsoft Hatred and proud to be... :)

I use a Mac for the internet and it certainly has left me deluded... :)

I do think the Amiga could make a comeback if it was in the right hands... :)

I enjoy my Amiga for what it is... :)

Tried Morphos and it sucks... :)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: dammy on September 03, 2010, 05:00:38 PM
Quote from: tone007;577461
Not really sure what you're getting at, but the Terons, X1000s, and SAMs actually do something different than a generic x86 PC and have a place, running OS4.1.  Call them whatever you want, but they're required hardware if you want OS4.1.


Yet they are still not "Amiga"s, nor could they be legally or ethically called an "Amiga".   No special chipset, just a SoC that anyone can buy and breadboard their own system with.  So what's the difference between them and x86_64 except you pay a huge price to run OS4 on a PPC mobo that is inferior.

Speaking of difference between PPC and x86, more news from http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9182103/Update_Mozilla_mulls_end_of_support_for_PowerPC_Macs and http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2010/08/30/tea to see where PPC is headed.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: mongo on September 03, 2010, 05:22:07 PM
Quote from: dammy;577549
Yet they are still not "Amiga"s, nor could they be legally or ethically called an "Amiga".   No special chipset, just a SoC that anyone can buy and breadboard their own system with.


Yeah. Give that a try sometime and let me know how it works out for you.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: tone007 on September 03, 2010, 05:51:20 PM
Quote from: dammy;577549
So what's the difference between them and x86_64 except you pay a huge price to run OS4 on a PPC mobo that is inferior.


Read veeery carefully.  

Quote
Call them whatever you want, but they're required hardware if you want OS4.1.


The x86 will not run OS4.1.  This is the difference.  This is why the PPC systems exist, whether or not they're "Amigas," they run AmigaOS.  Obviously, if you don't want to run OS4.1, you don't buy one of the overpriced PPC systems.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: mongo on September 03, 2010, 06:12:18 PM
Quote from: dammy;577549
Speaking of difference between PPC and x86, more news from http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9182103/Update_Mozilla_mulls_end_of_support_for_PowerPC_Macs and http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/2010/08/30/tea to see where PPC is headed.


Two web browsers dropping support for 5+ year old Macs is supposed to tell me about the future of PPC how exactly?
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: dammy on September 03, 2010, 06:13:06 PM
Quote from: tone007;577555
Read veeery carefully.  



The x86 will not run OS4.1.  This is the difference.  This is why the PPC systems exist, whether or not they're "Amigas," they run AmigaOS.  Obviously, if you don't want to run OS4.1, you don't buy one of the overpriced PPC systems.


Maybe not today, tomorrow you never know.  I know, with PPC sinking fast below the surface, not too many people will put the time and effort into a PPC emulator or improve the one that is out in the wild already.   However, last I heard,  doesn't MOS have a OS4 emulator?
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Iggy on September 03, 2010, 06:15:17 PM
Quote from: HammerD;577535
Iggy, did you ask him anything about:

1) How many employees C= USA has?
2) Does he plan to do any SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT for AROS? Or in any other way to support and promote it?

He's bought the C= name, the Amiga name rights, and plans to sell x86 boxes in old C= style cases and throw on bundled OS's.   Not very exciting and not interesting if he doesn't plan to support and augment AROS development.

Now there's a couple of good questions. I've been trying to think of them myself without getting blindsided by my own sentiment.
First, no the company does not have a lot of employees (but then neither does A-eon). Altman's other business does have a large warehouse, office space, and employees to help move stock.
At this point, I don't think he needs that many people.
He is interested in AROS, and must have tried it since he mentioned that sound doesn't work properly on his current system.
He also asked my how long I thought it would take to get AROS up to the level where it could be sold in a commercial product. That question's difficult to answer. I'm not comfortable with the idea, since I feel that selling AROS in its current state might lead to product returns.
Altman does seem interested in seeing AROS move forward. I think he's a little  wary since he approached one developer about the sound drivers and was quoted a pretty large sum.
But if whomever is in charge in the AROS project were to contact him, they could probably establish a relationship.

Now, as to the one post that stated that Winboxes could do want they wanted. If you can't do it under Windows, what platform can you do it under? And what is IT?
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: tone007 on September 03, 2010, 06:21:28 PM
Quote from: dammy;577564
Maybe not today, tomorrow you never know.


Maybe you don't, but I think most people have a pretty good idea that OS4.1 won't be ported to x86 by tomorrow!  As for years down the road, who knows, doesn't make any difference to people who want to do this stuff today.

Quote
However, last I heard,  doesn't MOS have a OS4 emulator?


Maybe.  Linux has a Windows emulator too.  Still not OS4, and still running on PPC (sorry, x86!)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: runequester on September 03, 2010, 06:21:29 PM
Quote from: Iggy;577567

Now, as to the one post that stated that Winboxes could do want they wanted. If you can't do it under Windows, what platform can you do it under? And what is IT?


The needs:
Centralized software installation and updating system for everything.
Ownership of my software.
Stability and a system that does not degrade with use.
Good support for multiple users on the same system, with me being able to define capabilities of each user very specifically.
Little to no need for reboots.
Can modify, distribute and hack without legal trouble.
Can change window managers and UI's depending on need and whim.
Not needing multiple software solutions running to ensure basic security.




The answer for me is linux.

I don't really want to derail the thread with the whole OS wars thing, but linux does what I need from it. OS X and windows fails multiple of the above criteria.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Nlandas on September 03, 2010, 06:32:02 PM
Quote from: TheGoose;577425
Wow , he's a savvy business man because he knows "Commodore" still has brand recognition! Golly I never thought of that, Wow.

Almost like a double rainbow!

Iggy. No.


OMG, It's starting to look like a triple rainbow.

I love double rainbows.......
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: GobanToba on September 03, 2010, 06:32:41 PM
Quote from: tone007;577555
Read veeery carefully.  



The x86 will not run OS4.1.  This is the difference.  This is why the PPC systems exist, whether or not they're "Amigas," they run AmigaOS.  Obviously, if you don't want to run OS4.1, you don't buy one of the overpriced PPC systems.

It seems to me PPC systems exist at this point solely because of Hyperion's refusal to port to x86.  You're using PPC soley because you're at the whim of Hyperion.

It seems Hyperion has been at a cross-roads several times.  Recently here again with the X1000.  Hyperion had a choice as they have so many times before.  Spend there resources moving toward $3000 old technology or port to modern hardware.  They have been faced with this situation and every time they choose the expensive old hardware over moving toward something that had a future.

It's almost surreal that these guys keep sticking with this method.  If these are the types of choices they make in hardware why would you trust their software programming choices?

I certainly don't feel Friedens get to choose what Amiga becomes, nor do I feel Amiga Inc., get to dictate what Amiga becomes, nor H&P, and that is why I think AROS is the true Amiga Operating System.  I hope they get a license from AI to call it "Amiga Workbench" soon.  

If a case has a name saying Commodore Amiga, super cool with me.  A case is not why I use Amiga though.  AROS spirit is why I use Amiga.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: mongo on September 03, 2010, 07:03:15 PM
Quote from: HammerD;577535
Iggy, did you ask him anything about:

1) How many employees C= USA has?
2) Does he plan to do any SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT for AROS? Or in any other way to support and promote it?


I can answer those.

1) 2
2) No.

Quote

He's bought the C= name, the Amiga name rights, and plans to sell x86 boxes in old C= style cases and throw on bundled OS's.   Not very exciting and not interesting if he doesn't plan to support and augment AROS development.


He didn't buy the C= name. He got a license to use it, same with the Amiga name.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: clusteruk on September 03, 2010, 07:39:00 PM
@Iggy
Quote


Altman does seem interested in seeing AROS move forward. I think he's a little  wary since he approached one developer about the sound drivers and was quoted a pretty large sum.
But if whomever is in charge in the AROS project were to contact him, they could probably establish a relationship.


Interesting, that is not how it went, as I am the owner of HDAudio system.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: HammerD on September 03, 2010, 08:02:20 PM
Quote from: mongo;577578
I can answer those.

1) 2
2) No.



He didn't buy the C= name. He got a license to use it, same with the Amiga name.


Well this is not interesting at all as he is just trying to move boxes by trying to leverage the C= and Amiga names.  At least ClusterUK has actively tried to develop AROS (eg. the sound driver).

I'd rather buy an AROX box from him even if it doesn't have C= or Amiga on it.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: vidarh on September 03, 2010, 09:32:42 PM
Quote from: skurk;577492

It's a PC.  You can buy a small Dell desktop for a few bucks that does the exact same thing, it runs Windows, Linux, AROS and whatnot.  It may not have the same specs, but it's more or less capable of doing the exact same thing.

So then what do you have?  A fancy looking plastic shell?


Ever see the red Ferrari branded laptops from Acer? Ever walked through a mall and seen seemingly identical products with a ten times markup because of a label? Brands mean a lot more to people than most of us care to admit.

That it does the exact same thing is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: haywirepc on September 03, 2010, 11:02:18 PM
I'm starting a new company in my basement called commodore amiga technologies. I will slap stickers on existing cheapo pc products with a 40% markup.
 
The whole thing, and anyone giving attention to my fake company, or this one,is just ridiculous.
 
They stole original artwork they don't own, they stole portions or their website from apple word for word, just copying and pasting out apple products and replacing the product names and pictures with their own.They also mislead those less informed into believing that they are designing or manufacturing the crap pc's they are selling.
 
This speaks volumes about the "company".  Are we so desperate to see the name commodore or amiga used again that we are all going to cheer some sheister in his house slapping stickers on computers we can get 40% cheaper elsewhere? The whole thing is a joke, and it getting all this attention is a bigger joke.
 
Support clusteruk's imica, since he's actually doing real work to benefit the amiga/aros community. Support the ARES guy... Support the MorphOS guys... Or hyperion if you wish, but don't support another scammer who will not deliver on any of their empty promises and bullshit.
 
Steven
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Iggy on September 03, 2010, 11:41:10 PM
I'd like to hear more from the iMica's creator, since I don't like be deceived and don't want to repeat a falsehood if that's whats been relayed to me.
 
I'd also encourage any of you that feel like continuing to support alternative systems to continue to do so.
 
I, personally don't care about the Amiga trademark. To me Amiga and Commodore are long dead entities.
I'm sure that any of you that are familiar with me will remember that I use and will continue to support MorphOS.
 
I really don't see these developments affecting those of us already focused on our own interests.
 
Regardless of our opinions, needs, or desires I don't think Altman considers us to be a major part of his potential customer pool. There just aren't that many of us.
 
Again, I would like to hear from others with experience with Altman or CUSA. If you're worried about posting for everyone, PM me and we can discuss this.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Plaz on September 03, 2010, 11:49:03 PM
I've got a spare IBM E serise PowerPC server, can some one get OS4 to run on that?  That would get some attention.

Plaz
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Iggy on September 04, 2010, 12:35:53 AM
Quote from: Plaz;577629
I've got a spare IBM E serise PowerPC server, can some one get OS4 to run on that? That would get some attention.
 
Plaz

Offer it to the MorphOS development team, they do MOS ports to some outlandish hardware at times.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Hammer on September 04, 2010, 01:47:08 AM
Quote from: tone007;577429
Commodore and Amiga were something original and different. Taking run of the mill PCs that don't do anything that any other PC on the market (from established vendors with real reputations and real support) can do and branding them Commodore/Amiga to play on the fond memories people have of the names from their early computing experiences (the "good old days" which most seem so eager to reclaim) for nothing but profit is very lame.

Bring on the original product, even if it's only a replica C64 case.  At least that'd show a bit more effort than doing some paperwork and ordering generic computers.


The original Commodore-Amiga delivered near cut-edge multimedia PC performance at affordable prices.

Why have specialized chipsets when you have the entire company(e.g. AMD or NVIDIA) specialized on doing one or two things i.e. designing high performance GPUs.

---

Btw, Intel SandyBridge (CGPU) has a GPU which beats AMD Radeon HD 5450. http://www.thinq.co.uk/2010/8/30/sandy-bridge-gpu-beats-radeon-hd-5450/

For Intel, designing GPUs are part of their tier-one focus.

To be balance, AMD has Ontario CGPU (Netbook targets) which delivers playable Alien vs Predator at DX11 effects (max details) and HD screen resolutions.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Hammer on September 04, 2010, 01:52:06 AM
Quote from: hooligan;577545
Agree on ALL accounts. I might add, anyone who thinks Linux-variants are for casual computer-user are deluded as well ;)


Google's Andriod OS says Hi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: persia on September 04, 2010, 02:56:40 AM
Android tablets are likely to be the hot items this Christmas season.    There's dozens of them in the pipelines...
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Motormouth on September 04, 2010, 04:36:09 AM
I cannot blame Mr. Altman from trying to make money off of the retro computing fad, (though I do think it fair to ask about the images he is using).  If the amiga (and commodore) communities do not like what he is selling we simply don't have to buy them.

I agree with many of you, long term AROS has the best shot of becoming a new "amiga"
IMO, for what it is worth, the amigaos died at amiga 3.1.

I do not have a OS4.1 system of my own, but from what I have seen of OS4.1 it has lost much of its amiga soul.  It feels much like a PPC linux distro.  but certainly I would defer to all of you with an OS4.1 systems.

What will the aeon X1000 do to make it an "amiga"? run OS 4.1?  and are you willing to pay a possible $1000+ USD for it?  

P. S.
@runequester: "actually, I think windows sucks because it can't do what I need it to do."
I am curious,  What can't windows do that you need it to do?  and what would a new amiga do that you need it to do?
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Iggy on September 16, 2010, 09:44:41 PM
CUSA's websitehas been redesigned.
The website looks much better and now has pictures of the new Amiga and PC64 models.

Youn can find it at:

http://www.commodoreusa.net/home.html

Edit - Corrections made it deference to Piru, who is right, many of the controversial images still remain.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Piru on September 16, 2010, 09:56:16 PM
Quote from: Iggy;579791
CUSA's websitehas been redesigned to eliminate to borrowed artwork so many of you were offended by.
All the borrowed artwork appears to be there, still.

Obviously the Amiga Fantasy render by Marko Hirv (http://aminet.net/pix/trace/AMIGA-fantasyB.jpg) (but now attributed only as inspiration, rather than actual computer model)
http://amiga.roomies.dk/wallpapers.htm
http://www.designbyxs.com/printdesign/amiga%20chrome%20trail.jpg
http://s974.photobucket.com/albums/ae226/sutandes1/computer/ (2 pictures form this album)
http://technology.desktopnexus.com/wallpaper/20086/
http://oldcomputers.net/c64.html
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2010/mobility2010/images/HPMini100eAngle.png

Obviously some of it might be used with permission. Perhaps.

Note how some of the pictures have been retouched to remove the original labels. For instance the HP Mini 100e picture (http://www.commodoreusa.net/i/mini100e_leftopen.jpg) has the HP logo and product name removed. I doubt HP is too happy about this, at least their Terms Of Use (http://welcome.hp.com/country/us/en/termsofuse.html) appear to prohibit it.

Oh btw, here's the Commodore TOTEBOOK:
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2010/100623xa.html
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press_kits/2010/mobility2010/HPMini100eDatasheet.pdf
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Amiga_Nut on September 16, 2010, 09:56:39 PM
Quote from: Motormouth;577660

I do not have a OS4.1 system of my own, but from what I have seen of OS4.1 it has lost much of its amiga soul.  It feels much like a PPC linux distro.  but certainly I would defer to all of you with an OS4.1 systems.

What will the aeon X1000 do to make it an "amiga"? run OS 4.1?  and are you willing to pay a possible $1000+ USD for it?  


The X1000 is using 5 year old technology but costing $2000-2500+ USD based on £1500+ price estimate.

However OS X is just a very well designed GUI on a version of UNIX, there is no shame in OS 4 achieving the same....shame the hardware just isn't there because nobody [with some capital] had the brains to telephone IBM and ask them to aid in the design of a 3.2Ghz PPC compatible Xenon CPU they manufacture for peanuts in quantities now totalling over 50 million to date ;)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Amiga_Nut on September 16, 2010, 09:59:43 PM
Quote from: persia;577649
Android tablets are likely to be the hot items this Christmas season.    There's dozens of them in the pipelines...


Google have put the Kybosh on that for now, no official update to Android is expected to allow for larger [than mobile phone] resolutions for an iPad rival. So......... Google's stupidity is now into 3

Chrome OS GUI (what where they thinking?!?!?!!? )
Dodgy silent/mandatory updates to Chrome Browser (leave the damn thing alone!)
Not pushing Android Tablets with every last cent they have!

So maybe now this is the 3rd bit of bad news they might start acting like the class act of old :)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Piru on September 16, 2010, 10:26:55 PM
dupe.. remove
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: zeke1312 on June 02, 2011, 03:58:20 AM
Where *is* the Commodore 64?
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: commodorejohn on June 02, 2011, 04:07:22 AM
It's on schedule and rocking!
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Iggy on June 02, 2011, 04:31:07 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;641829
It's on schedule and rocking!

What a remarkable non-answer!
Where is it again?
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: commodorejohn on June 02, 2011, 05:00:40 AM
Quote from: Iggy;641832
What a remarkable non-answer!
Where is it again?
That was a joke, (http://aros-research-operating-system.co.tv/#Current_status) my friend.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: dammy on June 02, 2011, 05:47:43 AM
Quote from: zeke1312;641826
Where *is* the Commodore 64?


Hoping to have pictures this weekend.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: fishy_fiz on June 02, 2011, 08:15:48 AM
Quote from: Iggy;577567
Now there's a couple of good questions. I've been trying to think of them myself without getting blindsided by my own sentiment.
First, no the company does not have a lot of employees (but then neither does A-eon). Altman's other business does have a large warehouse, office space, and employees to help move stock.
At this point, I don't think he needs that many people.
He is interested in AROS, and must have tried it since he mentioned that sound doesn't work properly on his current system.
He also asked my how long I thought it would take to get AROS up to the level where it could be sold in a commercial product. That question's difficult to answer. I'm not comfortable with the idea, since I feel that selling AROS in its current state might lead to product returns.
Altman does seem interested in seeing AROS move forward. I think he's a little  wary since he approached one developer about the sound drivers and was quoted a pretty large sum.
But if whomever is in charge in the AROS project were to contact him, they could probably establish a relationship.

Now, as to the one post that stated that Winboxes could do want they wanted. If you can't do it under Windows, what platform can you do it under? And what is IT?


Actually that recount of the sound driver debacle reads more like a cleaned up version of events. Firstly they where asked something like $1500 (I cant recall exact figure) for uncompromised use of the drivers. Seems kinda reasonable to me for something to be used in a commercial product. From here there was a lot of ridiculous behavior and complaints (which seems stupid to me,... in business if you want something its reasonable you pay a small fee for rights to use it). Prior to this ClusterUK (the man who actually *did* pay to have them created) had kept them exclusive to iMica for commercial purposes with the exception (unless Im mistaken) of Aresones, and phoenixkonsole also contributed money to use them there. After C-USA carried on like pork chops over it for a while ClusterUK realised nothing was to become of it so instead offered them up to the community for a sum. Ironically despite complaining about haveing to pay the initial amount they ended up contributing *nothing* when they had the opportunity to use the drivers for much cheaper and instead the community paid for them.

Not hugely important, but I couldnt help but to tell the story as it actually was, not the after-the-fact re-telling.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: persia on June 02, 2011, 01:29:29 PM
Why is this in AMIGA General Chat?
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: mongo on June 02, 2011, 02:10:50 PM
Quote from: dammy;641838
Hoping to have pictures this weekend.


Two months after the official launch and you're hoping to have pictures?
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Franko on June 02, 2011, 02:15:45 PM
Quote from: persia;641880
Why is this in AMIGA General Chat?


Awe gawd, this one must've slipped through the spam filter... :(

It's been so nice & quite since Barry boy was last here telling us to await for his announcement on Friday The 13th of April that came and went without a word, I was hoping they were all dead and buried and gone the way of the dodo... :)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: haywirepc on June 02, 2011, 02:17:02 PM
Yes and in 3 or 4 more months he'll have a new scheduled shipping date.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: dammy on June 02, 2011, 04:30:05 PM
Quote from: mongo;641898
Two months after the official launch and you're hoping to have pictures?


Pictures of the production line in action, yes.  Leo has said there would be a new video out this month and I would assume it would be of the actual C64x production line.  The new C=USA facility (offices, order customization, and R&D section) was rented and remodeled over last weekend, so we may also see pics of that as well.  This may prove to be an interesting weekend.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: drHirudo on June 02, 2011, 05:02:07 PM
Quote from: dammy;641927
Pictures of the production line in action, yes.  Leo has said there would be a new video out this month and I would assume it would be of the actual C64x production line.  The new C=USA facility (offices, order customization, and R&D section) was rented and remodeled over last weekend, so we may also see pics of that as well.  This may prove to be an interesting weekend.

Nice company that works only at the weekends. No wonder it took them so long to remodel a computer designed 30 years ago, without a CAD system.

On the contrary working only at the weekends is nice if you want to play with your Amigas in the weekdays. Where one can apply for a job at CUSA? Only if they had anything to do with the Amiga.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: commodorejohn on June 02, 2011, 05:13:41 PM
Quote from: drHirudo;641931
On the contrary working only at the weekends is nice if you want to play with your Amigas in the weekdays. Where one can apply for a job at CUSA? Only if they had anything to do with the Amiga.
Oh, it's quite simple. All you have to do is buy a computer, and it comes with a free CTO position!
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: djrikki on June 02, 2011, 05:15:11 PM
Quote from: persia;641880
Why is this in AMIGA General Chat?

For the same reason why its in the Amiga General Chat on AW... the scammers that are C=USA and their deluded followers deliberately start a thread in the wrong section to piss everyone off.  Eventually it will be move.... eventually :lol:
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: dammy on June 02, 2011, 05:17:40 PM
Quote from: drHirudo;641931
Nice company that works only at the weekends.


I guess you don't understand time management for busy executives.  Weekends and nights is when they are not typically tied to the phone or attending meetings.  Community outreach typically happens during down time of busy schedules.  I guess the very idea of mass production and the requirements for it to happen and successful execution of the production line is a bit foreign to you.

Quote
No wonder it took them so long to remodel a computer designed 30 years ago, without a CAD system.


Sure there was a CAD system for the C64x's mold: http://www.commodore-amiga.org/forum/27-commodore-usa/2154-images-of-the-c64xs-mold?lang=en#2154

Quote
On the contrary working only at the weekends is nice if you want to play with your Amigas in the weekdays. Where one can apply for a job at CUSA? Only if they had anything to do with the Amiga.


Well you just will have to wait till some time in 2H11 for those Commodore Amigas to be rolling down the assembly line.  Perhaps you will pass the time waiting while using your A1X1K. Oh wait...
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: djrikki on June 02, 2011, 05:19:37 PM
@dammy

zzzz
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Franko on June 02, 2011, 05:21:19 PM
Quote from: dammy;641936
Well you just will have to wait till some time in 2H11 for those Commodore Amigas to be rolling down the assembly line.  Perhaps you will pass the time waiting while using your A1X1K. Oh wait...


Thank gawd for that... :)

I mean whenever they have to start putting the letter "H" into years then that must be so far off in the distant future that we'll all be long dead and never have to hear about these overpriced PC's... :D
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: dammy on June 02, 2011, 05:22:58 PM
Quote from: djrikki;641934
For the same reason why its in the Amiga General Chat on AW... the scammers that are C=USA and their deluded followers deliberately start a thread in the wrong section to piss everyone off.  Eventually it will be move.... eventually :lol:


Actually, this thread was started by Iggy: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=577251&postcount=1 so you are wrong again.  You sure aren't doing well today, are you.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: dammy on June 02, 2011, 05:27:19 PM
Quote from: Franko;641938
Thank gawd for that... :)

I mean whenever they have to start putting the letter "H" into years then that must be so far off in the distant future that we'll all be long dead and never have to hear about these overpriced PC's... :D


I guess it might a regional issue with that abbreviation.  Typically 2Hyear means second half of that given year as would 3Qyear would mean third quarter of that given year.  Glad to help you out, don't even mention it.  Aren't you glad you learn something new today? :)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: djrikki on June 02, 2011, 05:28:54 PM
Having a great day thanks!

That avatar... is that C=USA's footprint in the market under a x1000 magnified-zoom lense?   Wait it could be Big Foot's... oh nvm no-one has ever seen that either...
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: commodorejohn on June 02, 2011, 05:31:55 PM
Quote from: dammy;641936
I guess you don't understand time management for busy executives.  Weekends and nights is when they are not typically tied to the phone or attending meetings.  Community outreach typically happens during down time of busy schedules.  I guess the very idea of mass production and the requirements for it to happen and successful execution of the production line is a bit foreign to you.
Oh, did we hurt Barry's feelings by not understanding how Big Real Serious Businesses with Disney(C)(TM)(R)(TM) Endorsement(TM) work? I guess the idea of releasing a bunch of confusingly random dates and announcements each phrased like an actual indication of a pending release is just foreign to us...
Quote
Well you just will have to wait till some time in 2H11 for those Commodore Amigas to be rolling down the assembly line.  Perhaps you will pass the time waiting while using your A1X1K. Oh wait...
Eh, I'll use my A3000, thanks, which actually exists, and runs real Amiga software natively!
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Franko on June 02, 2011, 05:32:10 PM
Quote from: dammy;641940
I guess it might a regional issue with that abbreviation.  Typically 2Hyear means second half of that given year as would 3Qyear would mean third quarter of that given year.  Glad to help you out, don't even mention it.  Aren't you glad you learn something new today? :)


Might be regional in some part of your brain cell but guess it's kinda typical of you to come up with some lame excuse for a typo... ;)

Nah, ain't learned nothing new today cos your still gibbering the same old keech as usual... :)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Kesa on June 03, 2011, 01:34:15 AM
Quote from: dammy;641936


Well you just will have to wait till some time in 2H11 for those Commodore Amigas to be rolling down the assembly line.  Perhaps you will pass the time waiting while using your A1X1K. Oh wait...

What's up with all these abbreviations? Did you just make these up? If you didn't then that person who did is an idiot.

What year is A1X1K? I'm assuming it was about 1000 years ago...
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Iggy on June 03, 2011, 02:02:22 AM
Quote from: dammy;641939
Actually, this thread was started by Iggy: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=577251&postcount=1 so you are wrong again.  You sure aren't doing well today, are you.

Actually, dammy is right. I started the thread. And even though he and I would be at odds over some things (the president for instance), I think we both agree on one point. Barry Altman and C=USA ought to be given a chance before they are written off.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Belial6 on June 03, 2011, 02:02:27 AM
Quote from: Kesa;642042
What's up with all these abbreviations? Did you just make these up? If you didn't then that person who did is an idiot.

What year is A1X1K? I'm assuming it was about 1000 years ago...


You really don't know that 2H11 would be the send half of 2011?  And you didn't now that the metric definition of 1000 is Kilo abreviated as K?  So you really didn't read A1X1K as AmigaOne X1000?  Really?  If those abbreviations flew over your head, then no wonder you post many of the things you post.  You seem to have a hard time understanding the information around you.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Franko on June 03, 2011, 02:06:30 AM
Quote from: Belial6;642061
You really don't know that 2H11 would be the send half of 2011?  And you didn't now that the metric definition of 1000 is Kilo abreviated as K?  So you really didn't read A1X1K as AmigaOne X1000?  Really?  If those abbreviations flew over your head, then no wonder you post many of the things you post.  You seem to have a hard time understanding the information around you.


Not taking the mickey here but I've NEVER seen anyone use a term like "2H11" before to describe a date... :)

Maybe Dammy was right, must be an American or regional thing... :)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Darrin on June 03, 2011, 02:11:43 AM
Quote from: Iggy;642060
Actually, dammy is right. I started the thread. And even though he and I would be at odds over some things (the president for instance), I think we both agree on one point. Barry Altman and C=USA ought to be given a chance before they are written off.


I agree.  However, his chance ended when he hijacked an existing brand, threatened people in the community, spread falsehoods, behaved like an arsehole, unleashed Spambots on us (Dammy) and has still failed to deliver a product.  He's had ample opportunity to undo the things he's done wrong and done nothing.  That really says it all.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Franko on June 03, 2011, 02:16:19 AM
Quote from: Darrin;642068
I agree.  However, his chance ended when he hijacked an existing brand, threatened people in the community, spread falsehoods, behaved like an arsehole, unleashed Spambots on us (Dammy) and has still failed to deliver a product.  He's had ample opportunity to undo the things he's done wrong and done nothing.  That really says it all.


WOW... took the word's right out of my mouth... :)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Kesa on June 03, 2011, 02:23:07 AM
Quote from: Belial6;642061
You really don't know that 2H11 would be the send half of 2011?  And you didn't now that the metric definition of 1000 is Kilo abreviated as K?  So you really didn't read A1X1K as AmigaOne X1000?  Really?  If those abbreviations flew over your head, then no wonder you post many of the things you post.  You seem to have a hard time understanding the information around you.

No sorry i didn't know that. If i saw that i would never have figured out that "2H11" was what you said it was. We don't use expressions like in my profession (accountancy/finance) so maybe i am in the wrong job?

As for your "A1X1K" i know perfectly well that K stands for 1000 but you missed the point i was trying to make. Isn't the point of using an abbreviation is to simplify and shorten text? What is so hard about typing "X1000" compared to "AIX1K". I don't understand why someone would feel the need to shorten X1000 to A1X1K. Makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: runequester on June 03, 2011, 02:37:10 AM
Quote from: Iggy;642060
Actually, dammy is right. I started the thread. And even though he and I would be at odds over some things (the president for instance), I think we both agree on one point. Barry Altman and C=USA ought to be given a chance before they are written off.

Well, I'd say the people who paid for preorders have given them a chance.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Belial6 on June 03, 2011, 05:31:09 AM
A simple search of 2H11 shows that it is pretty commonly used, and that it is not regional.

@Darrin and Franko

The two of you are complaining about hijacking threads?  Really?  That is some pretty thick irony there.

@runequester
Yes, those that pre-orderd have given them a chance.  Just keep in mind that the C64x has not missed it's promise date from the time that pre-orders started.

I do think that it was a poor choice to take pre-orders on anything Commodore/Amiga related without a strong pre-existing track record.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Darrin on June 03, 2011, 06:06:53 AM
Quote from: Belial6;642107
@Darrin and Franko

The two of you are complaining about hijacking threads?  Really?  That is some pretty thick irony there.


Please show everyone where I complained about "hikacking threads".  Once you discover that you can't then do me a favour and learn to read.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Belial6 on June 03, 2011, 06:21:39 AM
Quote from: Darrin;642109
Please show everyone where I complained about "hikacking threads".  Once you discover that you can't then do me a favour and learn to read.


Apparently I was wrong about that one.  You said Hijacking BRAND, not thread.  I read that wrong. My mistake.  Sorry.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Darrin on June 03, 2011, 06:26:43 AM
Quote from: Belial6;642110
Apparently I was wrong about that one.  You said Hijacking BRAND, not thread.  I read that wrong. My mistake.  Sorry.


That's OK.  ;)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: vox on December 15, 2011, 11:12:27 PM
Quote from: Belial6;642107
A simple search of 2H11 shows that it is pretty commonly used, and that it is not regional.

@Darrin and Franko

The two of you are complaining about hijacking threads?  Really?  That is some pretty thick irony there.

@runequester
Yes, those that pre-orderd have given them a chance.  Just keep in mind that the C64x has not missed it's promise date from the time that pre-orders started.

I do think that it was a poor choice to take pre-orders on anything Commodore/Amiga related without a strong pre-existing track record.


They did space out a date for Amigas, since they have been announceing them for 1 year or so? And CommodoreVISION is beta tested by end users?
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: vox on December 15, 2011, 11:35:13 PM
Quote from: HammerD;577535
Iggy, did you ask him anything about:

1) How many employees C= USA has?
2) Does he plan to do any SOFTWARE DEVELOPMENT for AROS? Or in any other way to support and promote it?

He's bought the C= name, the Amiga name rights, and plans to sell x86 boxes in old C= style cases and throw on bundled OS's.   Not very exciting and not interesting if he doesn't plan to support and augment AROS development.


1) So far we know of Leo Negro (nice name and surname!) or BigAussie
and BarryAltman. Probably few more persons
2) Leo promised AROS bounty, but didn`t deliver. So far they did no real software development.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: commodorejohn on December 15, 2011, 11:51:54 PM
Yeah, development isn't really something they do. Aside from electric-blue GNOME skins, anyway.

I'm at a loss to explain why this thread is being revived after six months, though.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Tension on December 16, 2011, 02:12:24 AM
Quote from: Kesa;642072

As for your "A1X1K" i know perfectly well that K stands for 1000 but you missed the point i was trying to make. Isn't the point of using an abbreviation is to simplify and shorten text? What is so hard about typing "X1000" compared to "AIX1K". I don't understand why someone would feel the need to shorten X1000 to A1X1K. Makes no sense to me.


A1X1K is short for 'AmigaOne X1000', not just 'X1000' ;)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: HenryCase on December 16, 2011, 02:34:06 AM
Quote from: vox;671530
2) Leo promised AROS bounty, but didn`t deliver. So far they did no real software development.


When? I don't remember them promising anything with regards to AROS bounties. There were requests for them to support the community in this way (bet they wish they did now, doing so would probably have avoided most of this backlash), but no promises on their part, as far as I recall.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Duce on December 16, 2011, 04:56:06 AM
Will be as productive as all the other Q & A sessions.  The last one was from Red, a real nice and sharp fellow, who later got drafted into the cult.

Tell C-USA to put up or shut up.  I tried to get some basic answers to questions both here and on their forums, and I was banned on their forums, lol.  The questions were BEYOND politely phrased.

Mail a test unit of his machines to Engadget or another well established media unit.  While I am not fan of them on basic principle, for all I know they might make one hell of a machine.  If I were the one running a company that makes a machine they are proud of, I would have absolutely STORMED every media outlet with product to spread the word.  I would LOVE to read a real positive, unbiased review of their offerings - a company with confidence in their products should have done this from day one.  IIRC, one of the A.org dudes (Rich?) asked to get a review unit and nothing more was ever said about if they followed up on that one.

I do wonder why, after what - nearly 2 years? of the company being outright jerks to the Amiga community as a whole, telling us constantly we "are not their market", they still even feign interest in us, you know?.  A journalist writes something that they don't like and he gets personally slandered and called a homosexual.

More to the point of your question, things I'd like to see asked:

1 - the Amiga line has been rumored to be super high end, workstation grade PC's.  Comparing basic preliminary build specs they have mentioned, they are expensive in regards to other workstation vendors.  How do they intend on being competitive in the workstation market in regards to that, and how does the "Commodore OS" deal fit in there?  A reskinned Linux distro isn't a selling point on $20,000 systems.  No one in this day and age that is buying a Workstation PC gives 1 flying **** about an Amiga sticker or badge.  The Toaster days are long, long gone.

2 - issues of passing things off as their own, as someone else mentioned - the one rendered Miggy model they had at one time in their "prototype" areas.  A fanpic with artist credits removed - that left a real bad taste in the mouths of the community, and all they ever really said about was "oopsie", just like the purported "factory" pics.

3 - supporting the old timers.  We have been told we are not their market, but they still persist on gunning for us here and elsewhere.  Have they considered actually SUPPORTING the scene, whether it be via bounties or perhaps sponsoring classic C and Amiga conventions and events rather than just say "WE ARE THE ONE TRUE COMMODORE/AMIGA" and selling commodity HW with a re badged Linux distro?  There's an awful lot of meaningless lip service going on.
Title: redrumedalion
Post by: weirdami on December 16, 2011, 05:27:10 AM
How come you get a medal next to your handle? I want a medal. wah!
Title: Re: redrumedalion
Post by: Kesa on December 16, 2011, 09:00:16 AM
Quote from: Duce;671553

3 - supporting the old timers.  We have been told we are not their market, but they still persist on gunning for us here and elsewhere.  Have they considered actually SUPPORTING the scene, whether it be via bounties or perhaps sponsoring classic C and Amiga conventions and events rather than just say "WE ARE THE ONE TRUE COMMODORE/AMIGA" and selling commodity HW with a re badged Linux distro?  There's an awful lot of meaningless lip service going on.

But think about the implications that this would have. If they were to fully support the Amiga community what would they do with it? If Barry invested in NatAmi or whatever he would completely **** it up. No thanks. I for one am glad he is not directly involved in the community and i hope he stays there. This way he can't bastardize our little precious community. We are better off without him.

Quote from: weirdami;671555
How come you get a medal next to your handle? I want a medal. wah!

It just means you are the highest poster. It used to be franko with like 16.5 posts a day! So if you want the medal get posting.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Kesa on December 16, 2011, 09:03:37 AM
So when is this CUSA Amiga line coming out? Wasn't it supposed to be this Christmas?   :confused:
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: psxphill on December 16, 2011, 10:51:04 AM
Quote from: Kesa;671568
So when is this CUSA Amiga line coming out? Wasn't it supposed to be this Christmas? :confused:

Does anyone care? The c64x was cool because of it's appearance, while the Amiga line doesn't really have anything to go for it.
 
If they did an A500 then they might get some takers, although with the price they are still pushing the c64x out for I would doubt it. They need to halve their prices across the c64x range to make them sell in any numbers.
 
The A1000 case might do ok if it's as good as other media centre pc cases as they are traditionally overpriced as well. If CUSA try and add even more on top they are doomed.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Digiman on December 16, 2011, 03:22:01 PM
I am interested/curious to see the case.

Vic slim is pure uglyness, c64x has no PETSCII keyboard with almost vertically parallel keys and no 9-pin joystick port USB adapters but at least they made an effort with the look.

I suspect there will be a cheaper and better solution to C-USA c64x soon enough. Ditto a rival for C-USA Amiga which will not cost 1000s too.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Darrin on December 16, 2011, 03:48:20 PM
Quote from: HenryCase;671546
When? I don't remember them promising anything with regards to AROS bounties. There were requests for them to support the community in this way (bet they wish they did now, doing so would probably have avoided most of this backlash), but no promises on their part, as far as I recall.


I was digging around yesterday looking for a quote from Spammy and there was one where Spammy stated that C-USA's intention was to develop hardware and software AND provide incentives for AROS.  To be fair, this was in their very early days when they probably hoped to use AROS on their C64x.  Shortly after they got into a pissing match over it and stated that AROS wasn't suitable (in other words, they couldn't get it for free or have people work on drivers for free).
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Darrin on December 16, 2011, 03:50:38 PM
Quote from: Digiman;671594
I am interested/curious to see the case.

Vic slim is pure uglyness, c64x has no PETSCII keyboard with almost vertically parallel keys and no 9-pin joystick port USB adapters but at least they made an effort with the look.

I suspect there will be a cheaper and better solution to C-USA c64x soon enough. Ditto a rival for C-USA Amiga which will not cost 1000s too.


I don't mind the VIC slim (I always liked those all-in-one designs).  However, as you say, how can you use a C64x as a C64 without the symbols on the keys?  This is why my Chameleon64 is plugged into a real C64C.  :)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Digiman on December 16, 2011, 04:28:36 PM
Quote from: Darrin;671601
I don't mind the VIC slim (I always liked those all-in-one designs).  However, as you say, how can you use a C64x as a C64 without the symbols on the keys?  This is why my Chameleon64 is plugged into a real C64C.  :)


That's fair enough about the VIC Slim, personal taste and all that, but not aesthetically related to a VIC20 but clearly the c64x is and they're the same design. Why didn't they just do a white c64x case for VIC20x and a black one for c16x?

This also makes me wonder about their Amiga case designs chosen.

Only mildly curious, will not purchase anything.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Darrin on December 16, 2011, 05:17:51 PM
Quote from: Digiman;671608
That's fair enough about the VIC Slim, personal taste and all that, but not aesthetically related to a VIC20 but clearly the c64x is and they're the same design. Why didn't they just do a white c64x case for VIC20x and a black one for c16x?

This also makes me wonder about their Amiga case designs chosen.

Only mildly curious, will not purchase anything.


Although the "breadbox" design is iconic, from a practical point of view the C64C is a hell of a lot nicer to use.

As for their "Amiga" designs.  The last "real" cases they showed belonged to some company producing Home Entertainment type PCs.  In the end, they'll just pick any third party company that can supply them cheap "old desktop" type cases in quantity and at the right price.  Add a C-USA sticker, slap "Amiga" on the case and install Linux.  Job done and community successfully pissed off again.

Anyone can do that now by purchasing one of these and adding their own stickers:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6470748&CatId=5139
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: mongo on December 16, 2011, 05:49:20 PM
Quote from: Digiman;671608
That's fair enough about the VIC Slim, personal taste and all that, but not aesthetically related to a VIC20 but clearly the c64x is and they're the same design. Why didn't they just do a white c64x case for VIC20x and a black one for c16x?

This also makes me wonder about their Amiga case designs chosen.

Only mildly curious, will not purchase anything.


If they do a white c64x case for a VIC20x,then what is the difference between the two besides colour?

The VIC-Slim is a $180 Seewor KPC210 with a sticker on it that they sell for $499.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Digiman on December 16, 2011, 06:12:05 PM
Quote from: mongo;671613
If they do a white c64x case for a VIC20x,then what is the difference between the two besides colour?

The VIC-Slim is a $180 Seewor KPC210 with a sticker on it that they sell for $499.


Well the VIC20 looks nicer due to colour IMO but it also originally came with an awesome feeling PET style keyboard too so if they did it properly then it would need a different keyboard.

The point is neither are anything but a PC in a fancy copycat case so colour is the only obvious difference. Maybe they could set it up so the VIC20x boots up into 640x480 rez so all the graphics look big and cramped like a real VIC20 :)

(yeah I know, they don't pre-install an OS)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: persia on December 16, 2011, 07:45:50 PM
The computer in a keyboard concept pretty much became non-practical with the death of the CRT.  Nowadays the only all-in-ones that make sense are the computer in the monitor type....
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Digiman on December 17, 2011, 01:48:24 AM
Quote from: persia;671625
The computer in a keyboard concept pretty much became non-practical with the death of the CRT.  Nowadays the only all-in-ones that make sense are the computer in the monitor type....


Or a 17inch laptop with a real cutting edge GPU (Common 5 years ago, now <1% of laptops include one)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: tone007 on December 17, 2011, 03:10:34 AM
Quote from: Digiman;671617
Well the VIC20 looks nicer due to colour IMO but it also originally came with an awesome feeling PET style keyboard too so if they did it properly then it ould need a different keyboard.


Only the very earliest came with that PET style keyboard, I have a couple and they feel like crap. Good luck duplicating that!

The look of the keyboard, however, is definitely appealing, and I couldn't help putting one of the PET style keyboards in my Educator64.  That PET case just didn't look right with a standard C64 keyboard.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Digiman on December 17, 2011, 06:32:01 PM
Quote from: tone007;671662
Only the very earliest came with that PET style keyboard, I have a couple and they feel like crap. Good luck duplicating that!

The look of the keyboard, however, is definitely appealing, and I couldn't help putting one of the PET style keyboards in my Educator64.  That PET case just didn't look right with a standard C64 keyboard.


I've got two as well, I prefer them for typing but the flat keys take some getting used to sure but the tactile response I prefer.

Dunno why C-USA don't do a PET remake, specially the Super PET.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Darrin on December 17, 2011, 06:43:31 PM
Quote from: Digiman;671730
Dunno why C-USA don't do a PET remake, specially the Super PET.


Because nobody else makes one for them to be able to order some, tripple the price and slap a C= sticker on them  :D
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: vox on February 20, 2012, 03:34:38 PM
Quote from: Iggy;577251
After a few vitriolic message from me and couple sent back, I've agreed to call Mr. Altman tomorrow to discuss his company at its business plans.
Many of you know me and opinions about this company and its plans from postings I've made in response to the messages posted about Commodore USA.

So, to say the least, this may be a somewhat contentious conversation. However, Barry's of the opinion that if I give him a fair hearing I'll be swayed by what he has to say.

So, now is your chance, folks. If there's anything you think I ought to ask, post it now.
I'll try to have a concise outline of what I want to cover when I talk to him.

I'll post a summary of our conversation tomorrow.


Next time don`t forget to ask Baron about real bussiness behind CUSA
http://www.homecraft.us/vanity_about_vanity.html

P.S.
Golden retriever is the best part of CUSA team! For next CEO!
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Iggy on February 20, 2012, 03:59:15 PM
Quote from: Darrin;671600
...To be fair, this was in their very early days when they probably hoped to use AROS on their C64x.  Shortly after they got into a pissing match over it and stated that AROS wasn't suitable (in other words, they couldn't get it for free or have people work on drivers for free).

Actually, that's not fair.
I talked to Barry when he was still considering AROS and he asked me what I thought.
I (and others) told him it wasn't complete and stable enough.

Come on guys. Its neat for us hobbyists, but it hasn't reached 1.0 status yet.
When AROS is no longer in alpha or beta status, then may it would be worth shipping with a computer system that you could rely on not crashing.

People don't want to buy computers that can be assured to crash.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: OlafS3 on February 20, 2012, 04:07:59 PM
After the discussion I saw here and on other sites I do not think there are "neutral" amiga-user. Ask AmigaOS-User about MorphOS and vice vera. And most here have judgements about other platforms without using it (or at least have used it a long time ago). So when you want to know something about a platform try it out and only ask developers/users that are actually using it.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: OlafS3 on February 20, 2012, 04:11:40 PM
When you have talked about Aros on which base? Newest nightly builds? Distributions?
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Iggy on February 20, 2012, 04:20:20 PM
I'm not going to ask for permission to offer my opinion about AROS.
And anyone that has used it (or tried to use it) knows its not ready for prime time.

BTW - I invested in a system to run AROS and think its a great hobbyist OS.

I guess I ought to add the specs of that system to my signature.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Darrin on February 20, 2012, 05:25:13 PM
Quote from: Iggy;681108
Actually, that's not fair.
I talked to Barry when he was still considering AROS and he asked me what I thought.
I (and others) told him it wasn't complete and stable enough.


I can't believe this old thread was dug up (That comment was made in Decemeber).

My point (back then) was that AROS needed funding, but unlike other people who paid for drivers, Barry wasn't going to spend a single penny.  Of course AROS needs work to go mainstream, but CUSA were not prepared to pay for it.  I guess an existing Linux distro with some icons and wallpaper added is the next cheapest alternative.

In fairness, I will add that if I was in Barry's shoes and I was selling a computer with an OS to the mass market, then I would want either a "market ready" OS installed or to be in complete control of whatever alternative custom OS I was going to use.  To market an incomplete system and then have the people you were depending on for further development decide to give up or become uncooperative.  Personally, I'm wondering legally where he stands on providing (or rather not providing) Linux (sorry, COS) support.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Terminills on February 20, 2012, 06:32:03 PM
Quote from: Iggy;681114
I'm not going to ask for permission to offer my opinion about AROS.
And anyone that has used it (or tried to use it) knows its not ready for prime time.

BTW - I invested in a system to run AROS and think its a great hobbyist OS.

I guess I ought to add the specs of that system to my signature.


I find AROS ABIv1 to be very stable. :P
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Iggy on February 20, 2012, 06:41:18 PM
Quote from: Darrin;681119
I can't believe this old thread was dug up (That comment was made in Decemeber).

My point (back then) was that AROS needed funding, but unlike other people who paid for drivers, Barry wasn't going to spend a single penny.  Of course AROS needs work to go mainstream, but CUSA were not prepared to pay for it.  I guess an existing Linux distro with some icons and wallpaper added is the next cheapest alternative.

In fairness, I will add that if I was in Barry's shoes and I was selling a computer with an OS to the mass market, then I would want either a "market ready" OS installed or to be in complete control of whatever alternative custom OS I was going to use.  To market an incomplete system and then have the people you were depending on for further development decide to give up or become uncooperative.  Personally, I'm wondering legally where he stands on providing (or rather not providing) Linux (sorry, COS) support.

Thanks Darrin,
Your clarification of your point makes perfect sense.
And I too wonder about the legality of distributing a modified Linux distro (by a for profit entity).

Quote from: Terminills;681126
I find AROS ABIv1 to be very stable. :P

That's not the point. even AROS.org doesn't recommend the OS for critical operations.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Terminills on February 20, 2012, 06:46:02 PM
Quote from: Iggy;681127

That's not the point. even AROS.org doesn't recommend the OS for critical operations.



So did the EULA on my AmigaOS package from both my A1000 and A4000 about AmigaOS.   ;P
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: vox on February 20, 2012, 06:55:37 PM
Quote from: Iggy;681108
Actually, that's not fair.
I talked to Barry when he was still considering AROS and he asked me what I thought.
I (and others) told him it wasn't complete and stable enough.

Come on guys. Its neat for us hobbyists, but it hasn't reached 1.0 status yet.
When AROS is no longer in alpha or beta status, then may it would be worth shipping with a computer system that you could rely on not crashing.

People don't want to buy computers that can be assured to crash.


Meanwhile AROS has quite progressed  Including blend with Linux and Multimedia center. Its said to compare original Leo`s statement on AROS (see early news on CUSA website) to Barry`s pissed statement that it holds no worth ...
Bringing FF and OO to AROS could be done meanwhile and machine would be dual or tripple booting where AROS could be candy for Amiga enthusiasts (that is how I imagined it from start and Leo promoted with early Phoenix product
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzsmiuEYUQY
Vague promises of support are evidenced on AROS EXEC also.
Serious people would support AROS and unofficially recommend it.

Linux is neither popular as mainstream OS, even its far more usable and they ship machines with it (before Ubuntu, now Mint 11).  And yes, they ship with Beta 6

On the other hand, how much R&D you can expect from a team where
only 1 person is IT pro
http://www.commodoreusa.net/CUSA_Corporate.aspx

Barons bio hides the point he is also a CEO of furniture company.
One man should do one job well and leave to others to do pro job,
leaving his shares, investments ...
http://www.homecraft.us/vanity_about_vanity.html

Woolf2Moon sais CUSA is same or better as ASUS. In support, product history and innovation, sales ... NOT
PRICE> and x86 system prices are such that for 999$ Commodore Ultimate you can get ASUS ZenBook: Laptop with MONITOR, WINDOWS,SSD, i5 instead of ATOM ... not to speak of the desktop systems

Those who say Atom based no VDU unit for $999 say that X1000 is rip off

If it was AROS supporting PC like AresOne or somehow connected to real Commodore or AmigaOS development ....

Cheaper solution is
http://www.zazzle.com/amiga+stickers
http://www.zazzle.com/commodore+stickers

About 6$

+ 999$ PC that you assemble.

Lot of broken promises, hot air sales and bad words ...
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Iggy on February 20, 2012, 06:55:42 PM
Quote from: Terminills;681129
So did the EULA on my AmigaOS package from both my A1000 and A4000 about AmigaOS.   ;P

Now that you mention it, Microsoft makes a disclaimer about "mission critical applications" on its EULAs too. ;)

I any case, I find AROS to be pretty impressive.
The recent integration of UAE is  remarkable.
In time this could be the leading NG OS.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: vox on February 20, 2012, 06:58:45 PM
Quote
I donate to Aros bounties.
The money is used to purchase the crystal meth and cocaine that it takes to code for 48 hour marathons. Some bounty takers also buy pizza and beer.
Others buy asian hookers. I say, whatever it takes to keep them coding and motivated.


Love the signature :-)
Even crystal meth and coke would be substituted with sack of weed and case of beer. More longelivity.

And how much effort was "COS development"? Making wallpapers?
Compiling kernel to existing drivers? Adding new free packages?

Linux should make machines be cheaper, not more expensive.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: CritAnime on February 20, 2012, 07:04:36 PM
more on their stance with aros might be in this thread (http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/27-commodore-usa/12492-join-the-forces#12534) but I really can't be bothered to drag myself through all the balls in the thread.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Darrin on February 20, 2012, 08:25:55 PM
Quote from: CritAnime;681134
more on their stance with aros might be in this thread (http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/27-commodore-usa/12492-join-the-forces#12534) but I really can't be bothered to drag myself through all the balls in the thread.


Interesting remark in that link that seems to confirm what I suspected all along:

Quote
There are restrictions on what you are able to do as an official Commodore dealer as you would be, in effect, representing the company.
 There is nothing stopping anyone from buying barebones systems right now and selling systems as a non-official Commodore dealer of course.
 Official dealers get discounts, but there are minimum order requirements and various hardware and software standard requirements as well as various responsibilities.


It seems to me the business plan is to have lots of people use their saving to set themselves up as "official Commodore dealers", spend THEIR money to order stock, C-USA then buys units for the actual manufactures to manufactuers at a huge discount to what the "official dealers" will pay with no risk involved, slap a C= sticker on them, ship them to the dealers and then sit back and watch while the official dealers struggle to sell their already overpriced stock at an even higher price.

This would explain why C-USA are so militant against any negative posts as the last thing they want are potential investors Googling their past antics.  It also explains the massive hype.  Nobody is going to be keen on investing in a company run from a tiny Mall shop in Florida.  You need to make bold claims about being partners with Disney, owning your own OS, having massive factories in China and hundreds of thousands of waiting customers eager to part with huge sums of cash.

It's a brilliant plan, but not exactly original.  Other companies do it with womens' makeup, health food and other assorted tat every day.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: CritAnime on February 20, 2012, 08:33:07 PM
Pretty much the way I read it on the Homecraft LLC webby also. http://www.homecraft.us/vanity_about_vanity.html
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: commodorejohn on February 20, 2012, 08:50:33 PM
You know, that would explain a lot. Fat chance of it actually going anywhere, though.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Darrin on February 20, 2012, 09:06:14 PM
Quote from: commodorejohn;681139
You know, that would explain a lot. Fat chance of it actually going anywhere, though.


It doesn't need to go anywhere in the long run, just in the short run because the LLC can fold up and then the people behind it just start up another business.  Meanwhile, the people operating the actual dealerships are left with the expensive equipment and the financial woes.

Mind you, some do work.  It is no different to selling Tupperware, Avon or Mary Kay.  As long as there are people willing to invest some money then the business will continue.  The lure of becomming your own boss and "making millions working from home" is quite powerful and there are lots of people offering to help you achieve this as seen by the constant TV ads, magazine ads and even posters nailed to telegraph poles all over the USA.

Can I interest you in some osterich eggs?  ;)

http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/Crimes/Telemarketing/Outbound/Major/Investments/wacky.htm
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: commodorejohn on February 20, 2012, 09:33:47 PM
Oh, I don't mean the model is flawed, just that I simply can't see anybody even bothering to sign up for such a thing in CUSA's case...
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: vox on February 20, 2012, 09:37:36 PM
Quote from: CritAnime;681134
more on their stance with aros might be in this thread (http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/27-commodore-usa/12492-join-the-forces#12534) but I really can't be bothered to drag myself through all the balls in the thread.


Will not register at their forum just because they don`t care for the users opinion at all. Whatever their own fans and customers suggested, they always find excuse.

Point is they don`t really want to invest much as explained, they want to sell sell sell (barebones, systems, whatever). And I don`t even see promised massive media campaigns (on Internet, US Amiga owners would report TV commercials), even decent website took 6 months. There is not even FTP for OS download. Keep the costs low. No R&D. No products in stores as they promised, just direct online buy. Not even a new product after C64x (changin inner components doesn`t change anything, since as long as it fits inside, they can put someone elses products - they don`t make boards or any components).

And yes,multilevel and viral fakerism if possible.

This explains while any desire for software or HW development that is not case with slapped sticker is turned down. Using free Linux as emulation that there is OS they give for free. Killing iCoin because they produced
"Amiga" slapped tablets, phones, AIO, iMac style PeeCees demanding not so much higher price then hardware itself.

And Harkonnen way of PR putting down everything else.

New strain of LCCs.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: kedawa on February 20, 2012, 10:28:09 PM
It's been a gong show since day one.
That product line and pricing in this economy is a recipe for failure.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Darrin on February 21, 2012, 12:00:23 AM
Quote from: commodorejohn;681146
Oh, I don't mean the model is flawed, just that I simply can't see anybody even bothering to sign up for such a thing in CUSA's case...


#1:  Dammy
#2:  Ben
#3....

OK, you have a point.  ;)

That said, imagine you know nothing about C=USA's past antics and you receive this sales pitch:

"Hi, I'm the CEO of Commodore USA and I have a unique business plan for select people like you which is guaranteed to make you rich!  Interested?  You bet you are, and together we are going to make more money than you imagined.  Do you know what was the biggest selling personal computer in the world?  The Commodore 64!  It sold millions all over the world and hardware and software is still being produced for it today.  Well, we're back.  We've already launched a brand new model called the C64x with our partners Disney and sold out in just a few months.  Demand exceeded my wildest expectation so much that I had to put back plans to supply a major high street retail chain with hundreds of thousands of units!  So, you must be asking yourself "How does this affect me?".  Well, I've had a major rethink based on the success so far.  Why should we give these computers to a major retailer who avoids taxes, pays their staff minimum wage and who has no enthusiasm for the product?  Why don't I just harness the energy of a select few.  A select and highly motivated bunch of people like yourselves who are willing to work hard and achieve the American Dream!  Who here wants to be rich?  Show me your hands, who wants to be rich?  Yeah, we all do and together we're going to be.  Rich and successful!  You see, together as a team we can have a combined buying power as great as HP or Dell which lowers the purchasing cost of components.  Using my extensive network of contacts and factories in China and my established transportation network we could buy $1000 state-of-the-art machines and sell them easily for $2000 or more!  Yes, that's right, you can double your money instantly and then keep on doubling it!  I produce the computers and have them shipped to the USA where they are configured for the customer.  You gentlemen pay a small fee to become an elite Commodore authorised Dealer and then purchase a minimum stock from me each month or quarter in order to meet your demand.  I ship the units directly to you.  You sell them and you can make thousands of dollars each month!  Imagine you invest $5,000 to buy 5 machines.  You sell them for $10,000 and you have made a profit of $5000 for that month!  Now imagine you reinvest all of that $10,000 and buy 10 machines the next month and sell them for $20,000, you've made $15,000 in just two months!  Now do it again for the next month and then the next month... do you know how much you could make in 1 year?  Do you?  I'll tell you... over 20 MILLION DOLLARS!  20 MILLION!  Not bad for a $5000 investment, eh?  Imagine investing $10,000!  Anyone here making $20,000,000 a year?  No?  Anyone here want to make $20,000,000 a year?  Yeah, I thought so.  OK, who is ready to sign up?"



Honestly though, if Barry had actually come across a a nice, honest, reliable guy with a solid business plan, good PR and a reasonable product line then I might have been interested in selling Commodore PCs.  I used to have a computer/electronics sales business for a few years with physical shop in the center of town which I ran more as a hobby because my main line of work brings in a stead stream of cash.

I wouldn't touch this business venture however with a barge pole.  Niche systems, overpriced, lacking a market, horrible PR and no support.  I'd be better off sourcing my own parts and making my own line of hand-built machines.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: vox on February 21, 2012, 12:09:08 AM
Quote from: Darrin;681159
#1:  Dammy
#2:  Ben
#3....

OK, you have a point.  ;)


Sad thing is almost every Amiga board has at least one of their trollish accounts, including some on You Tube too poisoning existing Amiga videos ... shame.

Damocles (Dammy), Wolf to The Moon & exec /AW.net

And yet they claim to be superior "x86 AmiganS" with big dreams of "IT world conquest" and new AmigaLinuxOS CUSA will make for them ...

What people managed to do in brainwashing with just 2 name licences and 1 new case  ...
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: vox on February 21, 2012, 12:17:46 AM
Quote from: kedawa;681148
It's been a gong show since day one.
That product line and pricing in this economy is a recipe for failure.


As company, quality of products and responsibility for the support to users come first.

This is how CommodoreOS looks from outsiders user exp
http://www.commodore-amiga.org/en/forum/8-commodore-os-howto-and-help/12725-new-user-lots-of-questions#12733

As of democracy, just seen this on the forum
[moderated: No links to sites containing competing products are allowed]

As well as we know no comments on YouTube, instant deletition on FB of anyone that mentions AmigaOS etc.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: kedawa on February 21, 2012, 09:47:30 AM
Yeah, their ****ty attitude and poor support don't help either.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: paolone on February 21, 2012, 01:53:30 PM
Quote from: Iggy;681114
I'm not going to ask for permission to offer my opinion about AROS.
And anyone that has used it (or tried to use it) knows its not ready for prime time.


Don't get me wrong, but Iggy was absolutely right. I also told Leo Nigro that while I was very excited at the idea of a Commodore branded product coming with Icaros Desktop (yes...), I also felt quite uncomfortable with the FACTS that 1) there were no more software than the one in the distro, and 2) even that software didn't behave exactly well, with 3) AROS having a bad attitude to crash. In a nutshell, selling 1000s or 100,000s computer that crashed 2 or 3 times a day wouldn't be a wise move for Commodore USA. Sad but true, time for bundling AROS with Commodore products should have been delayed to a wiser date, when all bugs were fixed, ABIv1 would be a reality, and most applications were ported to it.

Commodore should have behaved like an italian mecenate: if intentions were serious, it should have contributed to bounties and helped development of the operating system. Unluckily, at this point in time someone in Hyperion wrote (here or on AW.net, I don't remember) that a Commodore Amiga branded PC with AROS would have been a violation of the agreements with Amiga Inc, so Commodore USA had to choose wether paying money for development of a OS that couldn't even be used for the sake of others, and dropped its interest into AROS, in favour of a customized Linux distro. People can tell what they want here, but CUSA decision was the better (and the only) they could take, sad but true. Someone may argue everything is possible, even an agreement with Hyperion to port AmigaOS on x86... but please be serious, how many of the people in the ordinary world, accustomed to what Windows, Linux and MacOS X can do, would jump back on the 20-years-or-so-old wagon of AmigaOS 4? If there were many, they would have been using AROS today. Are they using AROS? I don't think so.

The situation has dramatically changed in the meanwhile, but legal issues are still here and after all Commodore USA is not here to please us, but just to make money. I wish their luck after all, because I still love the idea of Commodore computers being still around, even if they aren't the ones I loved in the teen age. On my side, I would really be happy if Icaros worked fine on their PCs.

Uh, just that we are here I can give a side news: next Icaros is almost ready. It will change some rules, and I can't tell you more today. Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Iggy on February 21, 2012, 02:06:42 PM
Thanks paolone,
At least one fellow AROS user understands my position/post.

I too like the idea of a new Commodore.

And after talking to Barry, I'm convinced that he understands basic business principles and is sincere in his desire to resurrect the brand.

You're right. He's not doing this to please us, but rather to try to build a successful business.
 (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=5371)
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: vox on June 29, 2012, 02:23:04 AM
Quote from: Iggy;577251
After a few vitriolic message from me and couple sent back, I've agreed to call Mr. Altman tomorrow to discuss his company at its business plans.
Many of you know me and opinions about this company and its plans from postings I've made in response to the messages posted about Commodore USA.

So, to say the least, this may be a somewhat contentious conversation. However, Barry's of the opinion that if I give him a fair hearing I'll be swayed by what he has to say.

So, now is your chance, folks. If there's anything you think I ought to ask, post it now.
I'll try to have a concise outline of what I want to cover when I talk to him.

I'll post a summary of our conversation tomorrow.


I ve agreed to build blog on this famous company.
http://anticusa.wordpress.com/
Do I get Amiga Mini or C64x?
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: Kremlar on January 16, 2013, 06:24:35 PM
FYI, it looks like Barry may have passed away last month.
 
http://www.bethisraelchapel.com/obituaries/Barry-S-Altman-71391/
 
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/sunsentinel/obituary.aspx?n=barry-altman&pid=161620890#fbLoggedOut
Title: Re: Barry Altman and Commodore USA
Post by: eliyahu on January 16, 2013, 06:34:21 PM
@thread

CUSA founder barry altman passed away in late 2012.  the discussion continues here (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=63881).

-- eliyahu