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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: Rob on February 04, 2017, 12:39:11 AM

Title: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: Rob on February 04, 2017, 12:39:11 AM
Amiga Store EU are advertising a replacement PCB for Amiga mice that upgrades them to laser mice.

Link (http://amigastore.eu/en/559-laser-upgrade-for-amiga-mice.html#/)

There will be boards for both the tank style mouse and the later A1200 mouse.  It's a drop in replacement for the standard PCB with no soldering required.  It also has a lens cover that goes in place of the original plate used for retaining the ball.

The sensor used is the same found in high end devices and offers a resolution of 8500dpi.

Availability is expected on the 22nd of March.

No price is currently mentioned.
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: LoadWB on February 05, 2017, 06:48:29 AM
Neat!
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: guest11527 on February 05, 2017, 11:10:36 AM
Quote from: Rob;821486
Amiga Store EU are advertising a replacement PCB for Amiga mice that upgrades them to laser mice.

Some older optical PS/2 mice can be converted into Amiga mice with a bit of soldering. Thus, if you still have an old Logitech mouse, it might be worth a try. This conversion only works if the sensor chip in the mouse is able to generate quadrature impulses, as read by the Amiga. Most modern USB mice use a "all in one" chip design that interfaces directly to USB, but older models have a separate sensor chip.

Concerning the optical resolution: I would be a bit careful with a resolution as high as advertized. The problem is that the mouse counters in the Amiga are only eight bit wide, meaning that already a fraction of an inch is sufficient to overrun the counters, and to make the mouse pointer "jump" on the screen. Mouse counters are only monitored each VBI, i.e. every 50th (or 60th) of a second. The mouse travels more than a critical distance, the counter overruns. The better the resolution, the shorter the critical distance, the higher the risk of an overrun.
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: spudje on February 05, 2017, 12:24:58 PM
Will this get enough power via the db9 or does it need an additional battery?
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: Acill on February 05, 2017, 02:52:20 PM
The laser mice that Amigakit sells are hard to beat. If the prince isnt lower than those I wouldnt see the point. I have a few of them and have to say the quality is amazing at 1000 DPI.

It would be nice to have an original looking mouse with the insides of a modern one though.

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1004
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: Kronos on February 05, 2017, 05:38:54 PM
@Acill

Those amigakit mice won't work on an actual Amiga without an adaptor
They manage to outdo the tank mouse in the ugly department without being retro

Plenty of better USB or PS/2 -mice to be had at that price.
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: amigakit on February 05, 2017, 06:26:52 PM
@Kronos

Quote
Those amigakit mice won't work on an actual Amiga without an adaptor

Let me clarify that the Classic Boing Ball mouse (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1258) will work on a Classic Amiga without any adapter.  They are 1000 dpi and feature laser technology- they simply plug into your A500, A1200, A2000, A3000 or A4000 and you can start using straight away.  No drivers or adapters needed.

There is also some great software to download for to configure extra buttons and scrollwheel that they have.
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: Kronos on February 05, 2017, 06:46:31 PM
Well Acill did link to the normal PS/2+USB version of that mouse, not one with the adaptor intregrated into an DB9-plug.

Still ugly as hell ;)
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: Rob on February 05, 2017, 08:40:58 PM
Quote from: Acill;821574
The laser mice that Amigakit sells are hard to beat. If the prince isnt lower than those I wouldnt see the point. I have a few of them and have to say the quality is amazing at 1000 DPI.

It would be nice to have an original looking mouse with the insides of a modern one though.

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1004


I think that even if it's more there'll still be plenty of poeple interested because they're fond of their old mouse and want to keep that period look.
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: F1Lupo on February 05, 2017, 08:45:40 PM
@ Rob

cool for those that want to gut out an original mouse. I got a small extension from a dude off Amibay years ago that allows you to use any standard USB mouse on classics and it works great (only downside is you can't use the scroll wheel)
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: Akiko on February 05, 2017, 08:51:35 PM
I really like the A-EON mouse, hopefully they get some more in black for when the new kickstarter cases and keys come out.
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: kolla on February 07, 2017, 08:49:02 AM
This is a very neat concept indeed. I am not a fan of clunky adapters :)
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: guest11527 on February 07, 2017, 02:45:29 PM
Quote from: kolla;821706
This is a very neat concept indeed. I am not a fan of clunky adapters :)

Actually, I like my converted Logitech mouse. No adapter, just a bit of soldering required. Plus, it's much more ergonomic than the tank style mouse.
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: darksun9210 on February 09, 2017, 07:32:53 AM
wow! awesome! now i just got to find all my mice and figure how many of what i need.
i've somehow managed to lose all but one of my amiga-ps2 adapters! grrrr
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: Rob on February 09, 2017, 08:13:10 AM
Quote from: kolla;821706
This is a very neat concept indeed. I am not a fan of clunky adapters :)


I had one of the shorter A1200 motherboards, the ones with the mouse port on a flylead, in my A1200 tower when I got a Punchinello.  So I took the plastic shell off, connected it internally and bolted it up where the standard port would usually be.
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: orange on February 09, 2017, 11:58:27 AM
damn, 40eur!
hope there will be some cheaper, open source project.
edit: http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65942
http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?80835-Amiga-1000-optical-Tank-Mouse&
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: dovegrace on February 13, 2017, 07:02:15 PM
Quote from: Rob;821593
I think that even if it's more there'll still be plenty of poeple interested because they're fond of their old mouse and want to keep that period look.


Hell, I'd buy one for my flaky A1000 mouse with the 90-degree connector.
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: spudje on April 16, 2017, 10:50:26 PM
Did anyone buy this Curious to know some actual experiences with it.
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: pyrre on April 17, 2017, 12:29:37 PM
Quote from: spudje;824633
Did anyone buy this Curious to know some actual experiences with it.
Release date has been moved to May 29th.
To soon to tell now... :(
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: spudje on April 17, 2017, 02:00:50 PM
Oh :( I thought the first batch was already sold out. OK, so we need a little more amipatience.
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: paul1981 on April 17, 2017, 02:09:06 PM
Not my cuppa. I like my ball mice thank you - I find their movement infinitely more natural, as in their movement reflects the way the pointer moves on the screen. I've never tried an expensive optical, but should I have to?
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: pyrre on April 17, 2017, 11:18:44 PM
Quote from: paul1981;824652
but should I have to?
yes. you should.....
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: kirk_m on April 18, 2017, 02:03:00 AM
Quote from: amigakit;821585
@Kronos



Let me clarify that the Classic Boing Ball mouse (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1258) will work on a Classic Amiga without any adapter.  They are 1000 dpi and feature laser technology- they simply plug into your A500, A1200, A2000, A3000 or A4000 and you can start using straight away.  No drivers or adapters needed.

There is also some great software to download for to configure extra buttons and scrollwheel that they have.


Thanks for pointing this out...I'll grab one once all my stuff is out of storage and back at my house from moving.
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: golem on April 18, 2017, 11:23:53 PM
Hey Amigakit, I just tried to add Classic Boing Ball mouse to my cart on your website but it always adds the USB version instead.
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: spudje on June 08, 2017, 12:02:34 AM
It seems they are available now. Any first impressions?
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: pyrre on July 06, 2017, 05:34:13 PM
A quick update on the topic.
I have now received the upgrade boards for both the tank mouse and the other mouse.
The tank mouse conversion is a walk in the park to perform. apart that my connector was wired different from other connector. could be because the mouse i got is from my original amiga 500 from 87.... Other than rewiring the connector it works perfectly. though. a side note. Some lead weights is due to be placed inside the mouse. it gets REALLY light. and i mean LIGHT...

The amiga mouse. prior to shipping they announced that they had to make a secondary board that fits commodore made mice, and that it differs from AT mouse. mine fit the mouse quite nicely. but the 3D printed part that is made to replace the ball cap is poorly fitted. I had to file off some material to make it enter. then i had to file off more material to make the lid shut.

Still there is some room for it to move around. and it fits poorly with the "lens" you are supposed to place on the underside of the board close to the led. there is some poorly made fitting there that requires some fiddling about. and i am going to glue it in place with hot glue.

Otherwise the board itself seemingly fits nice. some slight adjustments had to be made. but unlike the tank mouse there are some play room inside and the board is not locked solidly in place like it is in the tank mouse. have not come around to play with the settings just yet. but they work and i will enjoy using an optical mouse in my amiga quite well. have waited for this for some time and the upgrade is nicely welcomed to my home.
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: Iggy on July 06, 2017, 06:28:41 PM
Is it just me?
52 euros seems a bit much for a board to upgrade my mouse.
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: Acill on July 07, 2017, 06:07:18 AM
Feeling this is a bit too much money for my likes.
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: orange on July 07, 2017, 07:47:30 AM
some say, there are old PC optical mice that can be easily converted. without pic. needs to have "ADNS-2051 or PAN101B "
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: pyrre on July 07, 2017, 07:52:52 AM
52??

on the netshop it says "36,32 %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8364;                                                     tax incl."
where does 52 come from? (shipping?)
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: Iggy on July 07, 2017, 10:53:45 AM
Quote from: pyrre;828019
52??

on the netshop it says "36,32 %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8364;                                                     tax incl."
where does 52 come from? (shipping?)


NO, it doesn't.

"1x Laser... 43,95 €
1. Laser Tank PCB
8,00 €Shipping
51,95 € Total"

So, when does 43,95 equal 36,32?
AND, does over 36 euros look like a bargain to you?
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: pyrre on July 07, 2017, 11:19:44 AM
Quote from: Iggy;828020
NO, it doesn't.

"1x Laser... 43,95 €
1. Laser Tank PCB
8,00 €Shipping
51,95 € Total"

So, when does 43,95 equal 36,32?
AND, does over 36 euros look like a bargain to you?
I dont know what site you are looking at. But the site I look at says:
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: pyrre on July 07, 2017, 11:23:02 AM
Quote from: Iggy;828020
NO, it doesn't.

"1x Laser... 43,95 €
1. Laser Tank PCB
8,00 €Shipping
51,95 € Total"

So, when does 43,95 equal 36,32?
AND, does over 36 euros look like a bargain to you?
I don't know what site you are looking at.
On the site I am looking at it says:
(had to edit out my name in the image)
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: F0LLETT on July 07, 2017, 11:37:55 AM
Quote from: pyrre;828022
I don't know what site you are looking at.
On the site I am looking at it says:
(had to edit out my name in the image)


He is quite correct. €43.95 Inc TAX. So not sure what site your looking at?
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: F0LLETT on July 07, 2017, 11:38:46 AM
Quote from: pyrre;828022
I don't know what site you are looking at.
On the site I am looking at it says:
(had to edit out my name in the image)


He is quite correct. €43.95 Inc TAX. So not sure what site your looking at?
Unless there are different prices for different versions?
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: Iggy on July 07, 2017, 02:40:33 PM
Quote from: F0LLETT;828024
He is quite correct. €43.95 Inc TAX. So not sure what site your looking at?
Unless there are different prices for different versions?


Thanks. I was pretty sure I used the link provided in the first post.
Not to sound biased, but I could buy a new mouse from AmigaKit and pay the shipping for that price.
The only value I can see in this board is retaining the old housing as a matter of style.
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: pyrre on July 07, 2017, 06:22:24 PM
Quote from: F0LLETT;828024
He is quite correct. %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8364;43.95 Inc TAX. So not sure what site your looking at?
Unless there are different prices for different versions?
different price when logged in.... for some strange reason....

but still, the tank mouse version is well worth it... IMHO

Oh...
@ Iggy
I never claimed it being a bargain.
But i believe it is a good option and a well made option (the tank mouse)...
Title: Re: Laser upgrade for Amiga mice.
Post by: Acill on July 23, 2017, 03:48:51 PM
Quote from: amigakit;821585
@Kronos



Let me clarify that the Classic Boing Ball mouse (http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1258) will work on a Classic Amiga without any adapter.  They are 1000 dpi and feature laser technology- they simply plug into your A500, A1200, A2000, A3000 or A4000 and you can start using straight away.  No drivers or adapters needed.

There is also some great software to download for to configure extra buttons and scrollwheel that they have.


Just a heads up that the driver for this causes all kinds of crazy issues when the user had a Vampire 600 or 500 installed. It will not let the right mouse button work in some applications properly. For example in DPOUS 4 when you right click on the "s" in the bottom file window to bring up all your mounted drives it does not click and instead makes the scroll bar move to the right.

Also when you open a file selector window it will let you select the volumes, but when you go into one to view contends it will start to jump all over and not let you go into the selected drawer. Example, open Text editor, select open to pick your file, Click DH0: click TEMP drawer, it shots over to ENV: or something strange like that instead. Click into the path bar and it will shoot you over to the root again, very odd.

I didnt know what was happening at first since I set this up and then started having issues on another hard drive after installing it, didnt notice this driver was the cause untill I put a new motherboard in my 2000 with vampire and then a new OS install without the drive. Things worked, reinstalled this driver last night and the issue came back. Commented out the user-startup entry for c:mx1000.driver and moved freewheel to inactive in WBstartup, reboot and problem gone.