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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: kjmann on August 29, 2014, 04:43:03 AM

Title: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: kjmann on August 29, 2014, 04:43:03 AM
An Example of My Amiga Evolution Component Video Adapter
in Action.


Being sold at amigakit soon


Video Here: http://youtu.be/IXDqVIqOaKY
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: maxx11111 on August 30, 2014, 01:35:06 AM
Quote from: kjmann;771957
Being sold at amigakit soon

any idea of price + countries?
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Matt_H on August 30, 2014, 03:11:25 AM
@ Sal

Looks nice! Thanks for bringing this to market. Good to have some high-quality scandoubler alternatives available.

Quote from: maxx11111;772034
any idea of price + countries?


If it's being sold at AmigaKit, countries are probably "most of them" :)
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on August 30, 2014, 07:18:16 AM
Very nice!  Any pics of the actual hardware?
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: djos on August 30, 2014, 10:26:08 AM
Wow that looks great!

I have an RGB-YUV converter already but it only works on TV's/Monitors that can handle Bi-level sync and of my 4 component equipped displays, 2 of them dont work with it.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: alex76gr on August 30, 2014, 12:00:21 PM
Great news!
A few photos of the screen display would be very helpful as the video quality wasn't the best.
You could also post some comparison photos between your adapter and other display solutions such as RGB->SCART cable.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Ral-Clan on August 30, 2014, 02:37:36 PM
So what is doing the scan doubling here? Your hardware or the TV's upscaling circuitry?
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on August 30, 2014, 02:39:16 PM
Hope you are able to secure some DB23 connectors rather than hack DB25s.   :D
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: don27dog on August 30, 2014, 03:06:45 PM
Nice Work!!!
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: kickstart on August 30, 2014, 06:34:38 PM
Some good quality pics will be nice, the c64 colors of your wb and monitor ghosting dont help.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: kickstart on August 30, 2014, 06:38:47 PM
Quote from: ral-clan;772067
So what is doing the scan doubling here? Your hardware or the TV's upscaling circuitry?


If is an adaptor TV or monitor make the scandoubling, then the quality depends of the TV/monitor (i think).
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: magnetic on August 31, 2014, 02:28:09 AM
This is good news as any new classic developments are cool. However, having said this its probably just a straight rgb to component adaptor. I'm sure it doesnt do scaling,flicker fix, doubling, whatever its all on the monitor. So for instance if your monitor doesnt support PAL it wont display it.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Ral-Clan on August 31, 2014, 04:34:53 AM
Well, I guess this adapter will be helpful for as long as LCD TVs continue to include component jacks, which will probably only be for a couple more years.

After that, I suppose you could still buy a component to HDMI adapter to be able to continue to use this with HDMI only TVs.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: kjmann on August 31, 2014, 05:09:10 AM
Quote from: magnetic;772091
This is good news as any new classic developments are cool. However, having said this its probably just a straight rgb to component adaptor. I'm sure it doesnt do scaling,flicker fix, doubling, whatever its all on the monitor. So for instance if your monitor doesnt support PAL it wont display it.


That is correct. component video is already a 15khz horiz refresh, so it doesn't need a scan doubler.


I'm trying to come up with a HDMI version but that is not as easy and will be quite a while before that even begins to come to light.


we were thinking of trying to keep this within the $50 range somewhere.

i have not had a problem with any TV unless it only supported 480p.

This unit requires the TV to Support 480i for NTSC and 576i for PAL.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: MelbourneBen on January 02, 2015, 05:57:25 AM
Is this available yet? I can't see it at Amiga.org.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: trekiej on January 18, 2015, 03:13:53 AM
+1
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Gulliver on January 18, 2015, 08:37:23 AM
Pardon my ignorance:

What is the difference between this solution to the old Amiga/Scart to RGB cable?
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: don27dog on January 18, 2015, 12:44:14 PM
Some of us don't have access to scart.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on January 18, 2015, 05:44:03 PM
Just my guess, but the intent of this is to eliminate the whole SCART part altogether (Amiga RGB to component). I'm sure there will be some electronics in between.

Amiga users in Europe have the advantage of having TVs that can handle the Amiga 15KHz signal natively with just the correct lines connected through a SCART cable.

Again, just my guess-- this new device is aimed at the North American crowd whose best option for non-scandoubled/flicker fixed output is to go the way of component.

I am especially interested in this new device because I have had no luck with the adapters currently available.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Gulliver on January 18, 2015, 06:00:02 PM
Maybe I didn´t explain it correctly:

You dont need to actually have a scart tv. You use an Amiga to scart cable and then a scart to RGB converter.

$22.66 + $9.17 = $31.83 including shipping

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amiga-RGB-to-SCART-1-5m-A500-A600-1200-2000-3000-A4000-/131403345367?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item1e983fedd7

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RGB-SCART-to-Composite-COMPONENT-VIDEO-AV-TV-ADAPTER-HD-CONVERTER-/220833672632?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item336ab66db8

So my question remains: what is the difference?
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on January 18, 2015, 06:40:35 PM
I'm not sure who you're responding to but in my case, I do not think that will work. The first cable is fine if: 1) I have an A600 or A1200 with color composite out and a TV with a female SCART connection.


The second adapter seems to be a very simplified form of the converter here:


http://www.ebay.com/itm/370695549240?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


but instead designed for game consoles with female SCART connectors. They then go straight into the component input on their TVs.


In either case, SCART is still involved and I strongly suspect the original poster is describing a cable with an Amiga 23 pin RGB connector--> some electronics --> component video

If only kjmann can step in and confirm. Hope it isn't another vapor project.  :)


Quote from: Gulliver;781951
Maybe I didn´t explain it correctly:

You dont need to actually have a scart tv. You use an Amiga to scart cable and then a scart to RGB converter.

$14.64 + $9.17 = $23.81 including shipping

http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMMODORE-AMIGA-A600-A1200-GOLD-OFC-VIDEO-SCART-CABLE-2M-/320528969660?pt=UK_Video_Games_Cables_and_Adaptors&hash=item4aa103efbc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RGB-SCART-to-Composite-COMPONENT-VIDEO-AV-TV-ADAPTER-HD-CONVERTER-/220833672632?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item336ab66db8

So my question remains: what is the difference?
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Calimeiro on January 19, 2015, 07:51:06 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;781951
Maybe I didn´t explain it correctly:

You dont need to actually have a scart tv. You use an Amiga to scart cable and then a scart to RGB converter.

$14.64 + $9.17 = $23.81 including shipping

http://www.ebay.com/itm/COMMODORE-AMIGA-A600-A1200-GOLD-OFC-VIDEO-SCART-CABLE-2M-/320528969660?pt=UK_Video_Games_Cables_and_Adaptors&hash=item4aa103efbc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RGB-SCART-to-Composite-COMPONENT-VIDEO-AV-TV-ADAPTER-HD-CONVERTER-/220833672632?pt=US_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item336ab66db8

So my question remains: what is the difference?

Please explain, how to clutch to male SCART plugs together. I feel dumb reading this.
Only Amiga makes it possible? :hammer:
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Rob on January 19, 2015, 07:58:11 PM
How the composite video signal can be converted into a higher quality component RGB output seems a bit of a mystery too.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Gulliver on January 19, 2015, 08:45:49 PM
Sorry, I posted a wrong link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amiga-RGB-to-SCART-1-5m-A500-A600-1200-2000-3000-A4000-/131403345367?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item1e983fedd7

I will fix previous post.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: djos on January 19, 2015, 08:57:51 PM
Quote from: Rob;781973
How the composite video signal can be converted into a higher quality component RGB output seems a bit of a mystery too.


It's possible to strip the sync signal from composite and use that as part of the YUV conversion - I have one such adapter that does this. however our doesn't work on my Amiga's.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: spaceman88 on January 19, 2015, 09:02:52 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;781976
Sorry, I posted a wrong link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amiga-RGB-to-SCART-1-5m-A500-A600-1200-2000-3000-A4000-/131403345367?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item1e983fedd7

I will fix previous post.


Yeah, I was wondering how composite would look converted to component :-). Makes more sense now.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: agami on January 20, 2015, 03:49:41 AM
I would love one of these. Looking forward to buying/pre-ordering.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: MelbourneBen on January 20, 2015, 11:51:52 AM
I'd also like to order one if/when it becomes available.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: spaceman88 on January 20, 2015, 12:26:32 PM
Quote from: agami;781994
I would love one of these. Looking forward to buying/pre-ordering.


Doesn't Gulliver's solution offer the same results? And available now, and cheaper.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: kolla on January 20, 2015, 01:03:59 PM
Gulliver's solution offers two male SCART plugs so you would also need a "gender bender" in between. It is really much better to make a SCART free proper Amiga Video to component RGB cable.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Gulliver on January 20, 2015, 02:14:56 PM
Quote from: kolla;782016
Gulliver's solution offers two male SCART plugs so you would also need a "gender bender" in between. It is really much better to make a SCART free proper Amiga Video to component RGB cable.


Yes, it is much better and cheaper to build the cable on your own.
 
My post was not targetted at offering a solution but to ask about the difference in features/price. So any clue, anyone?
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on January 20, 2015, 03:44:58 PM
I am was going to say the same as well. Does such an item even exist? Search yielded no matches.

I'm wondering if this simple connecting of lines (from Amiga to SCART then component) will be enough, though. Probably will be for TVs sold in Europe. But then, why use component in this case if you already have a straight path to SCART? Unless, component has some other advantage.

Again, in my experience using the cables and devices already described, I am not getting a component signal output that is compatible with my displays. Something involving the type of synch, I believe.

Perhaps this is how the original poster's concept differs from what is already available.


Quote from: kolla;782016
Gulliver's solution offers two male SCART plugs so you would also need a "gender bender" in between. It is really much better to make a SCART free proper Amiga Video to component RGB cable.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Calimeiro on January 20, 2015, 07:49:57 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;782019
Yes, it is much better and cheaper to build the cable on your own.
 
My post was not targetted at offering a solution but to ask about the difference in features/price. So any clue, anyone?

The difference is the signal. SCART is for 50Hz PAL-TV. Not NTSC 60Hz. The SCART-TV got the circuitry to accept independent r-g-b with single sync line.
When doing Composite or Component Video, your adapter has to deal with correct conversion and proper signalling as all is mixed into one signal. Cvideo is a simple interface and picky to incorrect synchronization. Sync signal has to be improvised. Picture will be blurry in most cases, as the signal get "damped".
Component video carries sync signal via color. You have to make sure, signal is not getting lost during refresh.

As this was "kjmann", who has no creditibillity to me, anouncing this on a.org, lemonamiga, atariage in august and september, without pictures of the "finished and ready to ship" product, i doubt there is anything worth talking about.

Edit: From the few infos on this topic, he bought himself a tv with pal interface. So this is completely useless for north-americans and/or users with NTSC only.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 20, 2015, 08:05:37 PM
Quote from: Calimeiro;782046
As this was "kjmann", who has no creditibillity to me, anouncing this on a.org, lemonamiga, atariage in august and september, without pictures of the "finished and ready to ship" product, i doubt there is anything worth talking about.

Looks like he was "Last Activity: 12-30-2014 12:58 AM"

Why was he made a moderator here, again?  :roflmao:
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on January 20, 2015, 09:22:49 PM
Somewhere in your post is the root of the problem I am having. I *am* able to send both NTSC and PAL signals to an LCD display that supports both just fine over VGA. I am having some difficulty with using VGA and believe going component will solve that for me.

Right now I am using a typical Amiga RGB to SCART cable. The SCART connection then goes into one of these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370695549240?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

and then from there to the component input on my display. The display does appear to have problems synching with the signal. Can my converter box be modified to send a compatible signal?


Quote from: Calimeiro;782046
The difference is the signal. SCART is for 50Hz PAL-TV. Not NTSC 60Hz. The SCART-TV got the circuitry to accept independent r-g-b with single sync line.
When doing Composite or Component Video, your adapter has to deal with correct conversion and proper signalling as all is mixed into one signal. Cvideo is a simple interface and picky to incorrect synchronization. Sync signal has to be improvised. Picture will be blurry in most cases, as the signal get "damped".
Component video carries sync signal via color. You have to make sure, signal is not getting lost during refresh.

As this was "kjmann", who has no creditibillity to me, anouncing this on a.org, lemonamiga, atariage in august and september, without pictures of the "finished and ready to ship" product, i doubt there is anything worth talking about.

Edit: From the few infos on this topic, he bought himself a tv with pal interface. So this is completely useless for north-americans and/or users with NTSC only.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Calimeiro on January 21, 2015, 12:50:04 PM
jd, your link to ebay is dead.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on January 21, 2015, 04:08:31 PM
Sorry, I will correct that when I get access to eBay again. :)  Before that, I can tell you this is common SCART to Component converter box.

Quote from: Calimeiro;782078
jd, your link to ebay is dead.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Calimeiro on January 21, 2015, 10:06:36 PM
VGA is not applicable here if it means output from a vga card (31 kHz) versus tv (15 kHz).
There are devices (ab)using vga 15-pin connectors for different signals.
TVs with vga in, do convert themself from 31 to 15 kHz.
Amiga does not provide higher freqs then tv standard.

If your box is like this one attached below, and if it is actively converting regarding both tv standards, you should be fine with amiga rgb-scart -> box -> tv compoment.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 21, 2015, 10:33:04 PM
Quote from: Calimeiro;782085
Amiga does not provide higher freqs then tv standard.

They do if you have ECS or AGA and use the DblNTSC or DblPAL modes.  Probably not applicable to your discussion here, but just sayin'.  ;)
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on January 21, 2015, 11:19:17 PM
Edit: eBay link above corrected.

~~~~~~
Ahh....but this is a special situation where my Dell U2410 and Sharp TV both support 15Khz over VGA. I felt it was appropriate to mention the VGA part for that reason.

I should also mention that the monochrome output from my Amiga 500 going into the Dell U2410's GREEN component in produces the exact image I wish to get...only it is monochrome, of course.

Yes, that box is similar to my own and it I believed it was going to work also, but no go.

Quote from: Calimeiro;782085
VGA is not applicable here if it means output from a vga card (31 kHz) versus tv (15 kHz).
There are devices (ab)using vga 15-pin connectors for different signals.
TVs with vga in, do convert themself from 31 to 15 kHz.
Amiga does not provide higher freqs then tv standard.

If your box is like this one attached below, and if it is actively converting regarding both tv standards, you should be fine with amiga rgb-scart -> box -> tv compoment.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Calimeiro on January 22, 2015, 02:06:55 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;782086
They do if you have ECS or AGA and use the DblNTSC or DblPAL modes.  Probably not applicable to your discussion here, but just sayin'.  ;)

Of course, you are right, i forgot about these modes. (me standing in the corner of shame)
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Calimeiro on January 22, 2015, 02:16:05 PM
jd, your box looks like the "cheaper" version. What's wrong with the output?
Scambled? Distorted? Moved?

If it's a color mismatch you might check out the internal, there should be some screws for adjusting. You need a small screwdriver with "cross"-tip (i think it is named phillips screwdriver in the states)
You have to open the box for that.

If there is no output at all: Have you checked your rgb->scart cable?
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on January 22, 2015, 04:55:10 PM
I get no picture at all on the two displays that I tried. But, there is a "signal indicator" symbol that flashes briefly on both displays as if it is *trying* to sync a signal.

I was curious about the image of the box you showed. I have seen that one before available from a UK dealer. See here:

http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/32863-scart-rgb-yuv-convertor-csy-2100-cyp.html

And, yes, for a higher price. Since I already paid a decent amount for the "cheap" one with the full expectation that it would work, I would be hesitant to purchase a more expensive one. If I only had some reassurance from other user's success, that would change my mind. Then I can return my box for a refund.

My Amiga to SCART cable works fine with my SCART to HDMI box. I have no reason to suspect it, but I know there can be differences in the way the cables are made.


Quote from: Calimeiro;782132
jd, your box looks like the "cheaper" version. What's wrong with the output?
Scambled? Distorted? Moved?

If it's a color mismatch you might check out the internal, there should be some screws for adjusting. You need a small screwdriver with "cross"-tip (i think it is named phillips screwdriver in the states)
You have to open the box for that.

If there is no output at all: Have you checked your rgb->scart cable?
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Calimeiro on January 22, 2015, 08:32:44 PM
Potential pitfalls:

SCART-cable is missing signal on of the following pins
16  rgb mode
8   a/v selector
20  composite sync (voltage too high)

check with voltmeter if possible.

////////////////

Cable might be ok, but miggy has corrosion on pin
10
22
23

///////////////////

Please check if cable has resistors to those lines for voltage correction, if there is no resistor swap cable for better one.


Well, and finally, the box might be produced in october (during play-offs) :lol:
Check with other machine than your miggy.

I don't want to force you to by a new, not until it is clear what's the culprit here :)

Quote
I get no picture at all on the two displays that I tried. But, there is a  "signal indicator" symbol that flashes briefly on both displays as if  it is *trying* to sync a signal.
It's most likely they are waiting for signal from box (box to display acknowleged) but box don't get signal from input.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: psxphill on January 22, 2015, 08:49:03 PM
Quote from: jdryyz;782025
Again, in my experience using the cables and devices already described, I am not getting a component signal output that is compatible with my displays. Something involving the type of synch, I believe.

 Many modern TV's cannot handle 240p. If you set your workbench disk to an interlaced 15khz mode and that works, then you'll need something that scan converts 240p to 480p.
 
 It caused problems for some wii virtual console & ps3 psn games.
 
 You can't convert to 480i because it would upset the timing.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on January 22, 2015, 09:29:13 PM
That's interesting because when I was using the VGA connection, both my displays say I am sending a 480i signal. Is the native 15KHz Amiga signal really 240p even if I am using screenmodes with a higher resolution?

I did not check what the displays indicated using the monochrome ouput of the A500 but that signal is received very nicely. If the Amiga RGB is actually 240p, wouldn't that mean the monochrome would be also?

I will experiment with an interlaced workbench screen and see if that changes anything.

Quote from: psxphill;782164
Many modern TV's cannot handle 240p. If you set your workbench disk to an interlaced 15khz mode and that works, then you'll need something that scan converts 240p to 480p.
 
 It caused problems for some wii virtual console & ps3 psn games.
 
 You can't convert to 480i because it would upset the timing.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on January 23, 2015, 01:33:00 AM
I tried using an interlaced NTSC Workbench. It still did not display an image.  :(
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Calimeiro on January 23, 2015, 12:32:15 PM
Quote from: jdryyz;782142

My Amiga to SCART cable works fine with my SCART to HDMI box. I have no reason to suspect it, but I know there can be differences in the way the cables are made.

A/V mode switch or 4:3, 16:9 selector is not part of hdmi, hence box is working with your cable, but composite converter not.

I don't think sync is a problem as that signal has been decoded successfully in your hdmi converter. Without you wouldn't get a satisfying picture on screen.


Addendum: To my knowledge, a tv or monitor built with pal/ntsc tv interface can handle 256 (240) line mode (512/480 i). That is part of the specifications. Modern gfx cards and some Monitors no longer deal with  image date lower than 640*480 (31kHz). Output has to be doubled to be accepted (upscaling, frequency doubling).
Using interlace doesn't change a thing, as signal remains the same (15kHz).

You need Multiscan or DoubleNTSC mode to check. They are in the 30kHz ballpark. Those aren't RGB PAL/NTSC conformant and none of the gaming consoles from good old days uses other than low freq tv out. That's what the converter is made for.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on January 23, 2015, 03:11:22 PM
Interesting. The cable is from AmigaKit and it is made to order. I suppose something could have gone wrong.

I do have a voltmeter, but honestly, I would need more guidance on how to check the items you mention. Perhaps I need to find a pinout diagram for both sides.

Unfortunately, this is the only REAL Amiga I have. Before being pulled out of storage that it was in for approx five years, it was used on a Amiga-compatible CRT monitor without problems. It was also stored in the original packaging in a cool, dry place. I don't think any corrosion is involved.

Quote from: Calimeiro;782163
Potential pitfalls:

SCART-cable is missing signal on of the following pins
16  rgb mode
8   a/v selector
20  composite sync (voltage too high)

check with voltmeter if possible.

////////////////

Cable might be ok, but miggy has corrosion on pin
10
22
23

///////////////////

Please check if cable has resistors to those lines for voltage correction, if there is no resistor swap cable for better one.


Well, and finally, the box might be produced in october (during play-offs) :lol:
Check with other machine than your miggy.

I don't want to force you to by a new, not until it is clear what's the culprit here :)


It's most likely they are waiting for signal from box (box to display acknowleged) but box don't get signal from input.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on January 23, 2015, 03:22:35 PM
Quote from: Calimeiro;782193
A/V mode switch or 4:3, 16:9 selector is not part of hdmi, hence box is working with your cable, but composite converter not.

I don't think sync is a problem as that signal has been decoded successfully in your hdmi converter. Without you wouldn't get a satisfying picture on screen.


Good to know. At least that can be ruled out.

Quote from: Calimeiro;782193
Addendum: To my knowledge, a tv or monitor built with pal/ntsc tv interface can handle 256 (240) line mode (512/480 i). That is part of the specifications. Modern gfx cards and some Monitors no longer deal with  image date lower than 640*480 (31kHz). Output has to be doubled to be accepted (upscaling, frequency doubling).
Using interlace doesn't change a thing, as signal remains the same (15kHz).

You need Multiscan or DoubleNTSC mode to check. They are in the 30kHz ballpark. Those aren't RGB PAL/NTSC conformant and none of the gaming consoles from good old days uses other than low freq tv out. That's what the converter is made for.


Multiscan and DblNTSC require an AGA machine, correct? I only have the A500.


So with your help, I can examine my cable for faults. If the problem points there, I know another source for one.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on January 23, 2015, 07:19:25 PM
Quote from: jdryyz;782205
Multiscan and DblNTSC require an AGA machine, correct? I only have the A500.

No, as long as you have the ECS Denise (can be bought on ebay for under $20, another one of my highly recommended upgrades, along with the 3.1 ROM).  Why everyone doesn't upgrade their machines to "the latest and greatest" when components can be had for so cheap, I'm still facepalming about.  Sorry, /OT rant over!  ;)
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on January 23, 2015, 07:35:38 PM
I'm still OCS.  :)  I had a reason to stay there long ago. Not so today, but I see no compelling reason to upgrade at the moment, especially for screenmodes I doubt I will ever use.


Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;782218
No, as long as you have the ECS Denise (can be bought on ebay for under $20, another one of my highly recommended upgrades, along with the 3.1 ROM).  Why everyone doesn't upgrade their machines to "the latest and greatest" when components can be had for so cheap, I'm still facepalming about.  Sorry, /OT rant over!  ;)
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Calimeiro on January 23, 2015, 07:47:45 PM
Scart pinout

(http://domoticx.com/wp-content/uploads/scart-pinout.png)

Check on cable (not box :) )
Pin 20 --> should be less then 3.0 V
Pin 16 --> 5.0 V
Pin 8   --> 12.0 V

Final test Pin 13 on amiga sub-d 23pin should be wired to pin 18 scart only, no other ground. if it is grounded to shielding(common ground) or all other ground, isolate or cut and rewire.

i hope this will help
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Speelgoedmannetje on January 24, 2015, 02:49:47 AM
Quote from: kjmann;772101
That is correct. component video is already a 15khz horiz refresh, so it doesn't need a scan doubler.

Modern tv's use internal scan doublers for displaying your 15khz video. And seriously, they use the cheapest parts available. If you want anything near decent, your best bet is something like an xrgb framemeister or something in the same class. Your best option still is to get an arcade montitor.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on January 24, 2015, 03:10:56 AM
I see your imbedded image link when quoting you but it did not show up in the original post. Weird.

Silly question, but if you are looking for correct voltages, I assume you want the DB23 side plugged in and the Amiga turned on before I check the SCART side?

In that event, I had better be careful where I am sticking the voltmeter probe.  :)

Quote from: Calimeiro;782222
Scart pinout

(http://domoticx.com/wp-content/uploads/scart-pinout.png)

Check on cable (not box :) )
Pin 20 --> should be less then 3.0 V
Pin 16 --> 5.0 V
Pin 8   --> 12.0 V

Final test Pin 13 on amiga sub-d 23pin should be wired to pin 18 scart only, no other ground. if it is grounded to shielding(common ground) or all other ground, isolate or cut and rewire.

i hope this will help
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Calimeiro on January 24, 2015, 12:27:03 PM
Oops, bad linking.
(http://www.amiga.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3958&d=1422102196)

Yes, connect cable to miggy or you don't get anything interesting :D
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on January 24, 2015, 02:09:28 PM
Quote from: Calimeiro;782249

Yes, connect cable to miggy or you don't get anything interesting :D


I figured but it doesn't hurt to be certain today given my diminishing attention span.   :)
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on January 30, 2015, 03:13:20 AM
I must be doing something wrong because I am not getting any voltages off of those pins! Yes, the computer is turned on.  :)

Granted, it has been years since I have used my multimeter but I did do a quick test on a battery and the reading was accurate.

I placed the common probe on the common ground (pin 21) and the "hot" probe on the various pins. Please ignore the "200" setting in the attachment. I had it on 20 when I was testing.

I also tried the shield ground instead of pin 21. It did not help.

Do I even have my "hot" probe plugged into the right socket on the meter? Probably do since the battery gave me a reading.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: djos on January 30, 2015, 03:36:41 AM
Quote from: jdryyz;782622
I must be doing something wrong because I am not getting any voltages off of those pins! Yes, the computer is turned on.  :)


No you arent, Amiga video isnt SCART therefore you wont measure any "flag" voltages for SCART to indicate 16:9 vs 4:3 etc.

Amiga video is just RGBs and some ground pins.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: orange on January 30, 2015, 07:16:40 AM
@jdryyz
the cable must be modified to provide expected voltages for new TVs. (pin 16 is most important)
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: djos on January 30, 2015, 07:27:56 AM
Quote from: orange;782628
@jdryyz
the cable must be modified to provide expected voltages for new TVs. (pin 16 is most important)


The scart converters ignore the scart signaling pins so there's no point. He's in the USA and doesn't have scart on his tv.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Calimeiro on January 30, 2015, 11:57:45 AM
If it's true, then it's simple:

jdryyz wrote his cable was working with his hdmi converter.
the scart converter is supposed to ignore all but rgbs.
no picture = scart converter malfunctioning

But, isolating a/v mode on scart cable makes my tv staying black. cutting everything but rgbs then tv ignores the cable and displays standard tv channels.
i do not know how his converter is working. measuring the cable would allow to identify the problem if all signals are on, because then it is definitly the box, that refuses to work. that was the idea behind.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on January 30, 2015, 02:53:15 PM
Thank you all for your input. I would like to believe I simply have a defective converter box. Then I can just return it. I would really want to be sure the box is faulty, though. Is there some way we can test the box itself to PROVE it is the fault (besides not getting a picture)?

I can attach a photo of the circuit board. Let me know.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Calimeiro on January 30, 2015, 07:39:52 PM
Any working video source will do.
Like:

sat-receiver
vhs-recorder
dvd/br-player
game console
home computer

As long as these devices are built to support tv output and there is a working cable.

If you're no hermit you might find one in your neighborhood :lol:
or look for retro gaming groups, meetings.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on January 30, 2015, 08:31:32 PM
Keep in mind, my Amiga 500 via RGB -> SCART cable is the *only* source I can pass through the converter.

I'm in the USA so I do not have any native SCART-capable displays to use either.


Quote from: Calimeiro;782651
Any working video source will do.
Like:

sat-receiver
vhs-recorder
dvd/br-player
game console
home computer

As long as these devices are built to support tv output and there is a working cable.

If you're no hermit you might find one in your neighborhood :lol:
or look for retro gaming groups, meetings.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Calimeiro on January 31, 2015, 11:51:44 AM
You asked for a method to test your box (converter).

It is not about devices with scart interfaces, but video sources that have rgb out and can be directly connected to tv.
Game consoles are best bet.
 
Have a look at : http://retrorgb.com/systems.html
and http://retrorgb.com/rgbguide.html for introduction.

Some of the home entertainment stuff has additional rgb out. They are sold worldwide with minor modifications for local markets.
Those may have a 9 or 15 pin sub-d CGA connector (VGA connector).

Next way is to take a component to rbg cable. That would be somehow contradictionary, but all you need is a signal you can fed to the box. I don't know each and every type of tv gear sold in the states. You have to solder your own cable, i'm afraid.

If all is a no go i'm sorry, i have no more ideas.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: jdryyz on January 31, 2015, 07:14:46 PM
Thanks.

I would rather not acquire a game console to test out the converter, though, but that is a good way rule out my *Amiga* as a source of the problem.

In addition, everything I read about game consoles says they use a lower resolution signal than the Amiga. To me that would seem to introduce even more incompatibility.

At this stage, I have asked the seller for a return. If the replacement unit does the same, not sure what to do next.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: djos on January 31, 2015, 10:04:07 PM
Ignore the "make an RGB to component cable" suggestion, it's just ignorant!
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: Calimeiro on February 01, 2015, 03:56:23 PM
Quote from: jdryyz;782700

I would rather not acquire a game console to test out the converter, though, but that is a good way rule out my *Amiga* as a source of the problem.

No purchase. Ask friends, co-workers, neighbours, family members, if they got an old game console stashed away (or old home computer).
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: danbeaver on February 01, 2015, 09:38:49 PM
The converters when powered up put out an OSD (on screen display) of the resolution as notification.  This lasts a second.  If you don't see it, then it it is broken.  Un-plug the power and plug it back in for this.
Title: Re: New Amiga RGB To Component Video Adapter FINISHED!!!
Post by: djos on February 01, 2015, 09:44:25 PM
Quote from: danbeaver;782785
The converters when powered up put out an OSD (on screen display) of the resolution as notification.  This lasts a second.  If you don't see it, then it it is broken.  Un-plug the power and plug it back in for this.


The RGB-YUV Converters dont, only the HDMI converters do which use a very basic video processor in them with OSD functionality.