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Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga Hardware News => Topic started by: rdolores on May 13, 2013, 06:02:35 PM
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Just found out about this new FGPA A500 project. Seems to pick up where NATAMI stopped:
http://www.tinaproject.it/about.html
It quite interesting. It will have 3 FPGA's instead of one. Hope they get further than the NATAMI.
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Good luck, I hope to buy one some day.
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Whatever happened to Jens' FPGA re-implementation of the Amiga chipset?
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I wish them the best, but they must be warned that a lot of people will express scepticism about their project because of the history of such projects, Minimig and FPGAArcade aside.
It's really early for them to announce anything, so to write about 400MHz CPUs executing two instructions per second on the FPGA is a bit presumptuous! I hope they achieve it, but years and years of optimising existing 68k VHDL cores (TG68, etc) has only resulted in a 68020 compatible core with around half the IPC (judging from the Vampire 600 benchmarks) of a standard 68020 (luckily able to run a lot faster, to make up for the implementation shortcomings).
What is good is that the company they work for needs the boards for its in-house projects, and thus the boards will exist eventually, it "only" needs the Amiga custom cores to be implemented. I presume there is a base board, and there will need to be an Amiga I/O board that plugs into it to provide the Amiga ports (joystick, audio, etc).
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Whatever happened to Jens' FPGA re-implementation of the Amiga chipset?
Apparently it's finished and locked in a cupboard somewhere in Germany.
Parts of it have actually been released already and can be found in a lot of Amiga's in use today.
I think the main reason he hasn't released it as a complete 'computer' is that he can't figure out how to make any money out of it, the other reason is that he's too busy.
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I wish anyone luck that wants to try one of these projects. They are WAY harder than they look.
I do think there is something to be said for quietly working rather than publicising though. That seems to end in tears and hostility most of the time.
I would add Majsta's Vampire 500/600 projects to the list of successes though. He publicised from the planning stages and learned from scratch on the project. That takes some serious dedication. His cards may not be shipping yet, but he has clearly succeeded.
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Thank you, but in other hand Amiga community is tired of waiting and promises of projects that never happened, schematics diagrams published but never finalized. Years and years of promises but few of the projects are finished. So Amiga community learned somehow to not trust anyone. Now on the various websites I see that I started little revolution because there are lot of websites on many languages people are turning to Amiga FPGA. Maybe they just needed some kind of prove that it is possible to create something like that and those who understand technology better than me will continue and create something spectacular. But in my point of view it would be hard to create anything at 400Mhz inside FPGA because most of the cores break at around 150Mhz and at higher speeds we would need to add more and more wait states and that can't result increasing performance. On their design I see lot of wasting of space and devices and then again we will see.
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I hope to see a picture of the board soon.
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thats quite a lot to jam into a single cyclone 4 chip..
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Apparently it's finished and locked in a cupboard somewhere in Germany.
Parts of it have actually been released already and can be found in a lot of Amiga's in use today.
I think the main reason he hasn't released it as a complete 'computer' is that he can't figure out how to make any money out of it, the other reason is that he's too busy.
Maybe now he has a license for 3.1 he might have a full computer in the pipeline.
We can but dream! :)
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Whatever happened to Jens' FPGA re-implementation of the Amiga chipset?
Seems someone has one for the Minimig that also works in the Chameleon.
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Thank you, but in other hand Amiga community is tired of waiting and promises of projects that never happened, schematics diagrams published but never finalized. Years and years of promises but few of the projects are finished. So Amiga community learned somehow to not trust anyone. Now on the various websites I see that I started little revolution because there are lot of websites on many languages people are turning to Amiga FPGA. Maybe they just needed some kind of prove that it is possible to create something like that and those who understand technology better than me will continue and create something spectacular. But in my point of view it would be hard to create anything at 400Mhz inside FPGA because most of the cores break at around 150Mhz and at higher speeds we would need to add more and more wait states and that can't result increasing performance. On their design I see lot of wasting of space and devices and then again we will see.
Technology is not static, nor are FPGA's.
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Any news about TiNA board ?
Maybe some of the devs lurking here can say something :)
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is this also dead. ?
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Any news about TiNA board ?
Maybe some of the devs lurking here can say something :)
I don't know anything about the project.
What I know it is hard for any CPU project to be completed.
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Dead as a Dodo.
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Dead as a Dodo.
anyone know why . ?
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anyone know why . ?
Before even beginning properly, they quickly began talking about "a super amiga". Do the groundwork first and build upon it imo. Tina was a huge mass of hyperbole.
Story was, that one guy worked in a company (CdMauro?)that was interested in selling the tina board tech and had a contract with another company who wished to buy said tech. Cdmauro left the company and his new company apparently forbid him in contract to work on anything with another company.
Still go figure, if the first company were planning to sell the tina tech and make some money, then why would they not continue anyway, even if a key member had left.
Anyhow the whole Tina site and forum smacked greatly of bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! from the get go. :laughing:
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Anyhow the whole Tina site and forum smacked greatly of bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! from the get go. :laughing:
the site is stil up.
btw: thanks for the info.
Extremly sad no one cannot produce a working amiga clone.
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the site is stil up.
btw: thanks for the info.
Extremly sad no one cannot produce a working amiga clone.
this project was dead to start with. there are working clones, just to name minimig and other devices that can run this core, mist - which has aga support by now, fpgaarcade - not widely available but also aga compatible afaik, the few existing units of natami and fpga acceleartorls like vampire and others still being worked on.
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Before even beginning properly, they quickly began talking about "a super amiga". Do the groundwork first and build upon it imo. Tina was a huge mass of hyperbole.
Some of the TiNA tech claims were unrealistic. The fpga CPU clock speed is unrealistic and using 3 fpgas like they do is much more difficult than one fat one. I believe they had/have some people working on something but what they are trying to do and how they are trying to do it is very difficult. It's unlikely they would ever achieve the results they are after.
Story was, that one guy worked in a company (CdMauro?)that was interested in selling the tina board tech and had a contract with another company who wished to buy said tech. Cdmauro left the company and his new company apparently forbid him in contract to work on anything with another company.
Still go figure, if the first company were planning to sell the tina tech and make some money, then why would they not continue anyway, even if a key member had left.
Cesare DiMauro was never actually involved with the company in Italy besides consulting. He helped write one of the best Amiga fighters (Fighting Spirit?) and is on many Amiga forums. He moved to Germany for a job with Intel and does have some things he is not supposed to discuss which limited any help he could give, not that he has the kind of technical hardware related knowledge they need.
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this project was dead to start with. there are working clones, just to name minimig and other devices that can run this core, mist - which has aga support by now, fpgaarcade - not widely available but also aga compatible afaik, the few existing units of natami and fpga acceleartorls like vampire and others still being worked on.
I want a standalone clone.
My amiga a500 is very holly to me! that means I will not modify it in any way. So accelerators that replace the original hardware is not something I want to do.
Minimig is not something I want.
I want a natami type amiga clone.
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My amiga a500 is very holly to me! that means I will not modify it in any way.
you mean holy? perfectly understandable, im not advocating modifying aor replacing parts,
So accelerators that replace the original hardware is not something I want to do.
but accelerators that fit into expansion ports should do? okay vampire fits upon the genuine processor in a600 and the planned phoenix/apollo accelerator replaces the original cpu in an 500/2000, but those sit in the sockets i guess. it is expected to be a minimal modification, which can be reverted every time.
Minimig is not something I want.
all hardware i listed except it surpasses the original minimig capabilities.
I want a natami type amiga clone.
so far we have been told apollo/phoenix expansion is going to be a standalone device as soon as missing parts of the core will be added, in particular the chipset emulation. the core might become available for other standalone devices like mist as i perceive it reading forums.
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Speaking of which, has anyone heard if there's been any more progress from Gunnar et al? the Bring Up page has gone all quiet after it's initial flurry of activity.
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Speaking of which, has anyone heard if there's been any more progress from Gunnar et al? the Bring Up page has gone all quiet after it's initial flurry of activity.
has it? i see some updates, but probably not that essential, i mean the screenshots down the page:
http://www.apollo-core.com/bringup/
also their forum shows some activity:
http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php?b=7
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Check out the latest benchmarks. Nearly 5 times faster than an A4000.
I hope they get some serious money back for their work.
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you mean holy? perfectly understandable, im not advocating modifying aor replacing parts,
hehe yes HOLY!, would never modify it or cut in the a500 to make room for anyhting
but accelerators that fit into expansion ports should do? okay vampire fits upon the genuine processor in a600 and the planned phoenix/apollo accelerator replaces the original cpu in an 500/2000, but those sit in the sockets i guess. it is expected to be a minimal modification, which can be reverted every time.
Yes if it makes use of the memory port (replace the A501) thats something I like but like I say no cutting or modifying of the case.
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anyone know why . ?
A CPU is hard to make and few people actually finish them. There are also the demands of life like family, health, and job which ebb and flow.
The Amiga is not as simple as you think. It took guys from Atari years and then guys from Commodore years to get anywhere with the Amiga. It took them years so why does everyone think that it can just be done with no budget and a handful of people overnight?
Commodore employed hundreds of people and then there were updates to everything they made. They made it look simple but just because they made it work doesn't mean that people today understand what they did. Some of the people Commodore hired had a math background. What kind of math background does the hobbyists re-creating Amiga have?
The fact that hobbyists in this endeavor aren't consulting past engineers from Commodore should tell you something.
Unless you have a college background in electronics, there are few people who will teach you everything. I know hobbyists who won't teach because they don't want competition from others.
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hehe yes HOLY!, would never modify it or cut in the a500 to make room for anyhting
Yes if it makes use of the memory port (replace the A501) thats something I like but like I say no cutting or modifying of the case.
you can look up the photos here for yourself:
http://www.apollo-core.com/bringup/
no cutting or modyfing the case involved. the expansion is simply stuffed within the processor socket. it should nicely fit within the case.
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A CPU is hard to make and few people actually finish them. There are also the demands of life like family, health, and job which ebb and flow.
The Amiga is not as simple as you think. It took guys from Atari years and then guys from Commodore years to get anywhere with the Amiga. It took them years so why does everyone think that it can just be done with no budget and a handful of people overnight?
Commodore employed hundreds of people and then there were updates to everything they made. They made it look simple but just because they made it work doesn't mean that people today understand what they did. Some of the people Commodore hired had a math background. What kind of math background does the hobbyists re-creating Amiga have?
The fact that hobbyists in this endeavor aren't consulting past engineers from Commodore should tell you something.
Unless you have a college background in electronics, there are few people who will teach you everything. I know hobbyists who won't teach because they don't want competition from others.
Thats why it was so far ahead of everything. Like you say Amiga and later commodore used years of making these machines.
But let's hope they can prove us wrong and can put together a amiga clone, but the task his huge.
Wounder what Dave Haynie is thinking!.
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Thats why it was so far ahead of everything. Like you say Amiga and later commodore used years of making these machines.
But let's hope they can prove us wrong and can put together a amiga clone, but the task his huge.
Wounder what Dave Haynie is thinking!.
A lot of parts of products are made but they don't match the datasheets.
A hobbyist could buy a chip and it might not operate according to what the datasheet says.
Unless you have a professional check the part out, it could be a waste of time to develop for something more complicated like an Amiga.
Unless a Commodore Engineer has signed on the project, I wouldn't buy the product.
I'm going to go with computer companies that have a successful product, the most powerful tools in the world and competitive chips so if your computer doesn't break the 2 GHZ mark, then I shouldn't have to pay the same price or more for something that is less powerful.
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I have a dream! And there it stays! Maybe when we are like 60+ it comes true!
Im gonna make u superduper AtariST that can run amigasoftware fatser than any amiga.
LeL!