Amiga.org

Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: haywirepc on December 04, 2012, 01:02:54 PM

Title: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: haywirepc on December 04, 2012, 01:02:54 PM
http://amigagamer.blogspot.com.es/2012/11/dosbox-coming-to-amiga.html


This is the first I have heard of this...
Any more info on this? This would be so awesome, running all my dos favs
from my amiga 68k....

Would it need a 68060? Can it run wing commander? fast tracker II? Screamtracker?
NEOPAINT? What about star wars xwing?
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: Linde on December 04, 2012, 01:16:48 PM
Quote from: haywirepc;717442
http://amigagamer.blogspot.com.es/2012/11/dosbox-coming-to-amiga.html


This is the first I have heard of this...
Any more info on this? This would be so awesome, running all my dos favs
from my amiga 68k....

Would it need a 68060? Can it run wing commander? fast tracker II? Screamtracker?
NEOPAINT? What about star wars xwing?


Dosbox can run all of these, but I think you are out of luck expecting enough horsepower for these programs from a 060. I remember running Dark Forces totally playable in dosbox on a 1.6 ghz core 2 duo laptop, but on my dual core 1 ghz atom laptop it's too slow. I think blindly counting MIPS is not a good idea, but however you twist and turn it, it will be slower on a 060. Maybe it could be usable in UAE on some higher end machines, but then again, what's the point?
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: rvo_nl on December 04, 2012, 02:13:12 PM
he's right. I used the ppc version of dosbox a while ago and it could just about run settlers 1. and forget about timing-dependant stuff like music trackers, cant imagine that would work. you're much better off running dark forces under ifusion or shapeshifter. there a 060 is enough.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: haywirepc on December 04, 2012, 04:00:06 PM
Okay stick to linux box for dos emu. But I would still like to see a working port...
and I applaud these efforts...

Best regards,

Steven
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: jj on December 04, 2012, 04:20:18 PM
Both MorphOS and AOS4.x have working DosBox ports I believe
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: okejokej on December 04, 2012, 04:35:04 PM
Well, since dosbox is basically a 386 emulator, I don't think anything would be really usable (comfortably) on it.

I believe dosbox primarily exists to run old dos games, and most of those would be just unplayable even on a 100MHz 060 with lots of RAM..
It's also written to be easily portable and that usually means sacrificing some performance.

I doubt it can outrun good old PC-Task unless it had a well written JIT. Which on 68k Amiga has to be written from a scratch, lots and lots of asm coding :D

On my old 400MHz ARM Symbian Nokia dosbox can't really handle anything and it even has JIT for arm in it.

So.. yeah.. what's the point? Of course if the author wishes so.. it's his time after all ;) And there's always the experience that comes with it.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: Thorham on December 04, 2012, 04:55:49 PM
Indeed not very useful. On my old 667 mhz Pentium 3, DosBox already doesn't work well. On 680x0 it will be completely unusable. DosBox is simply too heavy, regardless of how well it's optimized.

I'd love to be proved wrong, of course ;)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on December 04, 2012, 05:14:55 PM
Quote from: Thorham;717478
Indeed not very useful. On my old 667 mhz Pentium 3, DosBox already doesn't work well. On 680x0 it will be completely unusable. DosBox is simply too heavy, regardless of how well it's optimized.
 
I'd love to be proved wrong, of course ;)

 
Hey what if we have a PPC Amiga running at 700 Mhz, can it then run DOSBox fine?
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: Lurch on December 04, 2012, 05:48:37 PM
Wow, keep finding these things out. Would be fun just to try running it. Even if you can't do much from there.

Still fun to try :-)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: okejokej on December 04, 2012, 05:58:27 PM
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;717480
Hey what if we have a PPC Amiga running at 700 Mhz, can it then run DOSBox fine?

As JJ mentioned earlier, there are DosBox ports for Amiga-related PPC systems so test yourself or ask someone to do so :p (although it has no JIT afaik).
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: drHirudo on December 04, 2012, 06:26:02 PM
Quote from: okejokej;717485
As JJ mentioned earlier, there are DosBox ports for Amiga-related PPC systems so test yourself or ask someone to do so :p (although it has no JIT afaik).


DOSBox works nicely on my microAmigaOne. I was able to run Apple II emulator under DOSBox. Video:

[youtube]FgGUfwmAwYs[/youtube]

Running DOSBox on Amiga68K is pointless. Better use PC-Task or PCx, both of them will run magnitudes faster on 680x0 processors, because they are written for these machines in first place, without portability intentions. I remember PCx was quite useful on my Amiga 4000/40/25 MHz. I used PC emulator for a utility to convert .MOD files to Sega Master System musics.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on December 04, 2012, 08:07:02 PM
Quote from: Thorham;717478
Indeed not very useful. On my old 667 mhz Pentium 3, DosBox already doesn't work well. On 680x0 it will be completely unusable. DosBox is simply too heavy, regardless of how well it's optimized.

I'd love to be proved wrong, of course ;)

I always love proving people wrong ;)

Seriously though, the plan is to optimize it for an Amiga 060 with (hopefully) a custom 68k 060 assembly core.

If I can get to run as fast as my old 386sx then I'll be happy with it.

As to the comments about it being pointless, those guys are missing the point ;)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: okejokej on December 04, 2012, 10:31:02 PM
Quote from: NovaCoder;717501
I always love proving people wrong ;)
I like being wrong in such cases :D So I'm counting on you.

Quote
Seriously though, the plan is to optimize it for an Amiga 060 with (hopefully) a custom 68k 060 assembly core. If I can get to run as fast as my old 386sx then I'll be happy with it.
I understand you're planning to write a x86 JIT core?

Quote
As to the comments about it being pointless, those guys are missing the point ;)
Did I? I wrote that there's experience coming with it (undoubtly valuable for developing your skills).

I just meant that usability of such solution isn't really a good point. It just can't beat PC-Task when it comes to performance :p It's not about your skill, but about the program itself.

If there's any other point then I indeed must've missed it ;)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: XDelusion on December 04, 2012, 10:39:34 PM
Currently, AROS is the way to go for your DOSbox needs. Fishy Fish ported over DOSbox a while ago and it works wonders on fast hardware!
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: haywirepc on December 05, 2012, 02:13:06 AM
Dosbox can emulate a fast 486. Depends on settings.

Yes I have alot of things installed on aros for dos using dosbox... Works nicely...

I have never tried pc task on amiga 68k, how well does that run things?
I think I saw someone running windows 3.1 on an amiga 1200 once. Ran slow as balls, but it ran.

And THANK you novacoder for even attempting this! Yes, prove them wrong!
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: bbond007 on December 05, 2012, 02:56:14 AM
Quote from: haywirepc;717442
Would it need a 68060? Can it run wing commander? fast tracker II? Screamtracker?
NEOPAINT? What about star wars xwing?

I doubt it based on the performance of DosBox for the RaspberryPI which I did not find usable. That is 800mhz... I think for Amiga PCTask is probably the best...
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: slaapliedje on December 05, 2012, 03:20:50 AM
My Nokia N900 will load up an almost usable version of Daggerfall with DosBox and it's an 600Mhz ARM.

And that was a game that came out in the era where they were still managing to make DOS games, that also had a 'Windows' version as well.

I haven't tried much else on it.  But the real thing I think that would slow it down would be converting VGA to AGA or something, though I'm assuming anyone attempting DosBox has some sort of graphics card?

I would love to play around with this, alas I only have a stock 040 in my A4000D.  Anyone offering an 060 for a price that won't make me poor?  I have a barely used soul for trade.  :D

slaapliedje
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on December 05, 2012, 03:32:04 AM
Quote from: haywirepc;717540
And THANK you novacoder for even attempting this! Yes, prove them wrong!


Thanks, I'll do my best :)

I'm also working on another couple of AGA ports (including NetSurf 68k) so it will take me a long time to get this DosBox v0.74 port to BETA stage.

This Amiga coding thing obviously only a hobby for me but I do what I can to give people a reason to dust off their old Amiga's and have some fun again ;)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: XDelusion on December 05, 2012, 04:31:08 AM
Speaking of DOS, how hard would it be to get a Sierra AGI interpreter running on 68k

I'd love to be able to fire up some fan made works I.E. Space Quest 0 and The lost Chapter.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on December 05, 2012, 04:49:50 AM
Quote from: XDelusion;717559
Speaking of DOS, how hard would it be to get a Sierra AGI interpreter running on 68k

I'd love to be able to fire up some fan made works I.E. Space Quest 0 and The lost Chapter.


Just use my port of ScummVM, no need for DosBox 68k...
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: XDelusion on December 05, 2012, 07:09:50 PM
Will it detect AGI games not designed for it?

Also I kind of figured a direct AGI interpreter could run on systems with less resources, or am I thinking wrong?
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: B00tDisk on December 05, 2012, 07:15:36 PM
Not sure if even a JIT enabled 68k DOSBox running on an 060 would be usable, but some folks have gotten Win98SE running on DOSBox.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: XDelusion on December 05, 2012, 08:48:32 PM
Yep I had 98 running on my AROS box.

Fish was planning on adding the OpenGL emulation from the DOSbox port, but I don't think he ever got around to it.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on December 11, 2012, 06:58:06 PM
Anyone know by any chance the list of ALL DOS PC games that will run on ScummVMAGA?
 
Completely thanks in advance :)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: Seiya on December 11, 2012, 07:17:27 PM
you can see many dosbox games on Retro Trailer on signature link
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on December 11, 2012, 07:19:13 PM
Quote from: Seiya;718587
you can see many dosbox games on Retro Trailer on signature link

Erm you don't by any chance have that order in English?
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: utri007 on December 11, 2012, 08:07:25 PM
How about ScummVM home page?
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on December 11, 2012, 09:00:21 PM
Quote from: utri007;718598
How about ScummVM home page?

Are the compatibility listing in the original ScummVM homepage which is directed to the mainstream OS such as Windows, Mac is accurate enough for ScummVMAGA?
 
Thanks.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on December 11, 2012, 10:04:15 PM
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;718606
Are the compatibility listing in the original ScummVM homepage which is directed to the mainstream OS such as Windows, Mac is accurate enough for ScummVMAGA?
 
Thanks.

do you mean this link (http://scummvm.org/compatibility/)?

The different version of ScummVM support different games, there was no point in me adding support for 'The 7th Guest' to the A600 version for example ;)

The version the supports the most games is ScummVM RTG 060.

BTW, you do known this is a thread about my new port (DosBox 68k AGA) and not my existing ports of ScummVM don't you?
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on December 11, 2012, 10:14:00 PM
Quote from: NovaCoder;718616
do you mean this link (http://scummvm.org/compatibility/)?
 
The different version of ScummVM support different games, there was not point in me adding support for 'The 7th Guest' to the A600 version for example ;)
 
The version the supports the most games is ScummVM RTG 060.
 
BTW, you do known this is a thread about my new port (DosBox 68k AGA) and not my existing ports of ScummVM don't you?

 
* shuffles feet, look at the floor * Sooowwwyy :o:o
 
By the way back to the DOS AGA, if you manage with whatever skill you have to get DOSBOx working on AGA Amiga 1200 with 20 fps or even 15 fps I will donate money to you till the end of my life!!
 
You would have managed to bring HORDE OF NEW games to the Amiga 1200/4000 giving these system new life with a whole new meaning :D :D
 
I mean already the Mac 68k Emulator gave a new COLLECTION of apps and games into the Amiga 1200 that with AmiMSX and the other emulators out there, with your now new ScummVM AGA plus the already NICE LIBRARY of software and game collections originally designed for the Amiga making the Amiga A VERY fun system indeed!!!
 
Hey in the future see if you can get C64AGA out here and since there is a C64 cable from AmigaKit that allows you to hook real 1541 Disk Drive into the Amiga system and read foppy disk you can just master and perfect almost the original C64 computer emulation and then the emulation requires the REAL Disk Drive hooked into the Amiga...OMG you would have turned Amiga INTO A REAL PURE C64 with complete feel as I will be using the real disk drive to load games instead of emulated disk drive!!
 
Soooowwwwwy I went again off top :( I am just over excited at your super skill in programming. I am just saying you could ACTUALLY succeed in getting DosBox to work then you can easily do C64AGA as well. Then all I have to do is put a stick on my Amiga 1200 case: MSX Sticker, Console stickers, C= 64 sticker and DOS sticker...hehehhehe
 
I am getting all giddy.. :)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: haywirepc on December 11, 2012, 11:35:40 PM
Root (linux)

\ Windows

\ DOS

\ AMIGAOS3.9

\ AROS

\ATARI

\C64


Linux runs it all. If you like software and trying things, linux lets you run everything... Windows too but its sexier with linux.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: Cosmos on December 12, 2012, 04:38:23 AM
Here a video of an Apollo 040 running PCTask with Tomb Raider 1 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou4LhtKoDLs





:)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: Minuous on December 12, 2012, 05:50:11 AM
Quote from: haywirepc
This is the first I have heard of this...
Any more info on this? This would be so awesome, running all my dos favs
from my amiga 68k....


It's already been ported: http://aminet.net/package/misc/emu/DOSBox_68k.lha
  Unfortunately it's an old and therefore less compatible version, and also illegal as the source code is missing. So I guess V0.74 will need to be ported from scratch :-(
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: djos on December 12, 2012, 05:58:06 AM
meh, there is only one "DOSBox" for 68k that counts, the KCS Power PC Board (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=718345&postcount=231)!
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on December 12, 2012, 06:19:11 AM
Quote from: Cosmos;718654
Here a video of an Apollo 040 running PCTask with Tomb Raider 1 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou4LhtKoDLs
 
 
 
 
 
:)

 
Your PCTask video impressed me. However I have couple of questions about it to clerify things for me.
 
1) Did you USE any real x86 hardware or is this purely running from Workbench Amiga 68k a software emulation of x86 PC?
 
2) It seems the speed of DOS cursor is smooth at 040 but the game play framerate is bad, would the framerate increase to an enjoyable level if we simply have a 060 CPU instead of a 040 CPU?
 
3) Can I run any 3D game that was designed for DOS or any DOS games using PCTask on AGA and run smoothly with a 20 fps or even 15 fps?
 
4) Is it like DOSBox? Can it run any DOS game or application or heck even install Windows 95/98 on PCTask on a real partition on the Amiga??
 
5) Can I run everything through AGA into my Commodore 1084S monitor with PCTask?
 
6) Can I still register for it and where can I buy it??
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: Cosmos on December 12, 2012, 06:39:29 AM
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;718664
Your PCTask video impressed me. However I have couple of questions about it to clerify things for me.
 
1) Did you USE any real x86 hardware or is this purely running from Workbench Amiga 68k a software emulation of x86 PC?
 
2) It seems the speed of DOS cursor is smooth at 040 but the game play framerate is bad, would the framerate increase to an enjoyable level if we simply have a 060 CPU instead of a 040 CPU?
 
3) Can I run any 3D game that was designed for DOS or any DOS games using PCTask on AGA and run smoothly with a 20 fps or even 15 fps?
 
4) Is it like DOSBox? Can it run any DOS game or application or heck even install Windows 95/98 on PCTask on a real partition on the Amiga??
 
5) Can I run everything through AGA into my Commodore 1084S monitor with PCTask?
 
6) Can I still register for it and where can I buy it??


1/ only software emulation

2/ Classic machines are full of bootlenecks : for exemple, AGA slowdown a fast 060

3/ 15 or 20 fps ? Hum, you are a dreamer !

4/ Windows 3.1 is working AFIR, but Windows 95/98 not

5/ yes

6/ PCTask is now free



:)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on December 12, 2012, 06:45:12 AM
Quote from: Cosmos;718673
1/ only software emulation
 
2/ Classic machines are full of bootlenecks : for exemple, AGA slowdown a fast 060
 
3/ 15 or 20 fps ? Hum, you are a dreamer !
 
4/ Windows 3.1 is working AFIR, but Windows 95/98 not
 
5/ yes
 
6/ PCTask is now free
 
 
 
:)

 
1) COOL!
2) OK but can I at least run any 2D game if not 3D game at a good enjoyable speed with a 060 or this will never happen?
3) What if we upgraded to RTG or video card can then we run PCTask at a 15 or 20 fps? IS there away with AGA it can run at least at a decent speed to enjoy?
4) Thanks
5) SWEET
6) Where can I get the free version? In Aminet it is a demo only.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: Bamiga2002 on December 12, 2012, 07:06:56 AM
Quote from: Cosmos;718673
1/ only software emulation

2/ Classic machines are full of bootlenecks : for exemple, AGA slowdown a fast 060

3/ 15 or 20 fps ? Hum, you are a dreamer !

4/ Windows 3.1 is working AFIR, but Windows 95/98 not

5/ yes

6/ PCTask is now free

:)

4/ WRONG! I fought through the pain and installed Win95 in PC-Task and it *worked*! Well it was painfully slow ;). Win 3.1 was OK speedwise.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on December 12, 2012, 07:57:57 AM
Quote from: Minuous;718662
It's already been ported: http://aminet.net/package/misc/emu/DOSBox_68k.lha
  Unfortunately it's an old and therefore less compatible version, and also illegal as the source code is missing. So I guess V0.74 will need to be ported from scratch :-(


Yes I have ported 0.74 from scratch...
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: OlafS3 on December 12, 2012, 09:36:49 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;718679
Yes I have ported 0.74 from scratch...


0.74? Where can I download it? Would be great for my distribution
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on December 12, 2012, 10:05:53 AM
Hiya,

It's running but not ready for release yet, still loads of work to do.

More details here -> thread (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=66709)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: haywirepc on December 12, 2012, 01:08:41 PM
Nice video of pctask but if the frame rate during gameplay is so bad, its not really relevant....

I would really like to see warcraft,wing commander,xwing and tie fighter on an 060 amiga 1200.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: spirantho on December 12, 2012, 02:00:41 PM
I was surprised by how well it ran actually! Remember this is only a 68040 running (well, walking!) a 3D game under emulation.

Personally I use my beefed-up 50MHz 486SLC/2 A2386SX bridgeboard with 13.5MHz ISA bus. Only problem is no sound card I've found so far can cope with the overclocking of the ISA bus, but it made an appreciable difference in speed of Doom.
Ultima 7 runs nicely though, and Alone in the Dark is also good.
My next test is to replace the 386SX bridgeboard in one of my A1500s with a 33MHz 486SLC and see if the upped bus speed from 25MHz to 33MHz makes much difference. Means swapping the northbridge as well as the CPU, but because the bottleneck on the 386SX platform is the 16-bit memory bus, I think that extra 8MHz may make a difference.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: haywirepc on December 12, 2012, 05:37:48 PM
warcraft,wing commander,xwing and tie fighter on an 060 amiga 1200.

Anyone get these running? Run beautifully on AROS...
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on December 12, 2012, 07:04:19 PM
Anyone?
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on December 12, 2012, 09:39:54 PM
Quote from: spirantho;718721
I was surprised by how well it ran actually! Remember this is only a 68040 running (well, walking!) a 3D game under emulation.

Personally I use my beefed-up 50MHz 486SLC/2 A2386SX bridgeboard with 13.5MHz ISA bus. Only problem is no sound card I've found so far can cope with the overclocking of the ISA bus, but it made an appreciable difference in speed of Doom.
Ultima 7 runs nicely though, and Alone in the Dark is also good.
My next test is to replace the 386SX bridgeboard in one of my A1500s with a 33MHz 486SLC and see if the upped bus speed from 25MHz to 33MHz makes much difference. Means swapping the northbridge as well as the CPU, but because the bottleneck on the 386SX platform is the 16-bit memory bus, I think that extra 8MHz may make a difference.


Yep I thought it ran Tomb Raider pretty well, I'd like to see what my 80Mhz 060 could do with it.  I did have a quick play with PCTask but it looks like a bit of a bitch to setup.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: spirantho on December 12, 2012, 09:49:12 PM
Quote from: NovaCoder;718794
Yep I thought it ran Tomb Raider pretty well, I'd like to see what my 80Mhz 060 could do with it.  I did have a quick play with PCTask but it looks like a bit of a bitch to setup.


Nah, PC-Task is dead easy to set up. Create a hardfile and tell it to use it. Set the memory you want available and set the screenmodes - that's it.

It's the MS-DOS that's a pain....
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: XDelusion on December 12, 2012, 09:53:21 PM
I never realized PC Task had to much potential...

...a shame I don't have a GFX card in my Amiga...
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on December 12, 2012, 10:15:56 PM
Wait....is that video running on GFX card Amiga or AGA?
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: djos on December 12, 2012, 10:33:55 PM
So aside from my awesome KCS Power PC (NEC v30 powered) XT PC board, did anyone else make an internal PC board for Amiga's?
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: XDelusion on December 12, 2012, 10:43:35 PM
Speaking of which, would it not be neat if the MKII could pass a VGA output through it and allow for Amiga 68ks apps that would allow the VGA display to appear on it's own Screen in Amiga OS 3.x?

 I.E. Have an internal Rasberry Pii with it's display and input controlled from within Amiga OS...

Oh to dream.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: Linde on December 13, 2012, 12:03:24 AM
Quote from: haywirepc;718742
warcraft


Maybe you could run the Macintosh version using an emulator.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: haywirepc on December 13, 2012, 12:35:48 AM
Have not tried that.... Lately I've been installing hordes dos games on my linux box. I'm up to like 6 gigs and counting. I  would prefer to get them running point and click... I have alot of icons and shortcuts to create...

When most dos games were out, I missed playing most of them because I was running a bbs 24/7 on my main pc at the time... I mostly used my amiga 500 for myself and the pc for the multi node bbs... Its funny to see how much I missed.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: haywirepc on December 13, 2012, 12:53:10 AM
I forgot to ask... Does anyone know a good joystick that works with dosbox?

Will an old school one that plugs into the sb joystick port work? gotta check the back of my machine but I think it has this port, otherwise will a usb joystick work with dosbox? I never used a joystick much on a linux box.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: okejokej on December 13, 2012, 07:56:13 AM
Quote from: djos;718800
So aside from my awesome KCS Power PC (NEC v30 powered) XT PC board, did anyone else make an internal PC board for Amiga's?

Umm there were some bridgeboards, but aside from KCS the other most common, and for A500, would be Vortex ATonce (I suppose..?).

Compared to KCS hmm.. ATOnce has a 286 instead of 8086 but also worse graphics emulation capabilities, AFAIR. I think installing it was also a bit more complicated as I THINK you also had to bridge it to somewhere. BUT it was mounted over CPU so maybe it's possible to have both KCS and ATOnce.. at once x). And I think Vortex had no RAM of it's own. (there was a "Plus" version with memory on board)

Sorry for offtopic.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: djos on December 13, 2012, 08:04:34 AM
Cheers, the KCS has sound blaster and adlib support too.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on December 14, 2012, 05:18:32 AM
Mmmmm Tentacles...
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on December 14, 2012, 07:07:34 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;718983
Mmmmm Tentacles...


It looks beautiful, but winuae is misleading. It may run on winuae at 30 fps, even in aga mode but if you take it on a real A1200 it will run on 1 fps. You know what I mean? :-)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: okejokej on December 14, 2012, 11:08:02 AM
Well, he didn't say it runs 30 fps (don't see anything saying that on the shot aswell).

WinUAE can run with pretty real speed as long as it's set up properly.. :d If it's set to run "fastest possible" then oh well :p
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: haywirepc on December 14, 2012, 11:45:14 AM
Even if its for winuae only, or for amithlon, its still a great adition to classic amiga os.

If your running a dedicated emulation system, you can add thousands and thousands of
dos games to your fun box.

Keep up the great work novacoder!
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: XDelusion on December 14, 2012, 06:38:25 PM
Oh ya, I always forget about AMithlon... ;)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on December 14, 2012, 09:07:38 PM
Quote from: okejokej;719014
Well, he didn't say it runs 30 fps (don't see anything saying that on the shot aswell).
 
WinUAE can run with pretty real speed as long as it's set up properly.. :d If it's set to run "fastest possible" then oh well :p

I pray with all my heart that DOSBoxAGA ACTUALLY becomes a reality!! By bringing DOSBox into classic Amiga NovaCoder would have given it a new VERY LONG life span indeed :):)
 
Playing PC games through AGA is SWEEETER than ever!!
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on December 14, 2012, 09:41:15 PM
Yep it will take a lot of work to make it fast enough to be worth releasing.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: bbond007 on December 14, 2012, 11:02:34 PM
Quote from: NovaCoder;718794
Yep I thought it ran Tomb Raider pretty well, I'd like to see what my 80Mhz 060 could do with it.  I did have a quick play with PCTask but it looks like a bit of a bitch to setup.

PCTask is super simple to set up.

You can even use the "isomount" script from Aminet to install it without even needing a floppy... you can use the images 1.44mb from bootdisk.com..

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=59288
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: Caratacas on December 14, 2012, 11:39:38 PM
@bbonb007

Thank you so much for that link, I'll give that a go on my amithlon box :)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: Caratacas on December 14, 2012, 11:41:50 PM
Apologies for missing the inverted b in your name, alcohol induced myopia.....
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on December 15, 2012, 01:40:07 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;719105
Yep it will take a lot of work to make it fast enough to be worth releasing.


Thank you NovaCoder, thank u for all your port efforts!
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: Varthall on December 15, 2012, 08:56:34 AM
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;718675

6) Where can I get the free version? In Aminet it is a demo only.

Look closer :)

http://aminet.net/package/misc/emu/PC-Task44

Varthall
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on February 08, 2013, 03:34:50 AM
arise grandson... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG7gg7TjB70)

Sorry for the crappy audio recording, it actually sounds just fine.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on February 08, 2013, 03:44:56 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;725766
arise grandson... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG7gg7TjB70)
 
Sorry for the crappy audio recording, it actually sounds just fine.

* jaws drop * What would it's speed be like on a real A1200?? If the speed is actually the same as the speed in WinUAE from youtube...can you release it now? You have actually done what majority consider not possible!!! I would LOVE TO PLAY ULTIMA 7 on my A1200! I would love to play DOS games on my A1200!!! 20 GB HD is no longer sufficient for me!!
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: XDelusion on February 08, 2013, 03:51:23 AM
What speed are you emulating at? I.E. in real Amiga terms.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on February 08, 2013, 03:56:48 AM
No sorry guys, lots of work to do to make it quicker before I'll release it.

Matt is also working on a dynamic 68k core, that should also help the speed up when it's ready to be plugged in.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on February 08, 2013, 05:13:56 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;725769
No sorry guys, lots of work to do to make it quicker before I'll release it.

Matt is also working on a dynamic 68k core, that should also help the speed up when it's ready to be plugged in.

* wipes droll * I can hardly wait. I am wondering NovaCoder....I know I am dreaming....oh God I know I am dreaming. But is it possible..just curious out of the blues curious can I install Windows 98 Me on this? Because if it can do Windows 98 Me on a 20 fps or even 16 fps I can finally have a single MMORPG game on my A1200..but..but if it cannot do that..and just be able to run DOS games on it..I am ok with that. I am happy with that. I have no objection with that :D :D :D :sealed:
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: XDelusion on February 08, 2013, 05:25:14 AM
Quote from: AmigaClassicRule;725772
* wipes droll * I can hardly wait. I am wondering NovaCoder....I know I am dreaming....oh God I know I am dreaming. But is it possible..just curious out of the blues curious can I install Windows 98 Me on this? Because if it can do Windows 98 Me on a 20 fps or even 16 fps I can finally have a single MMORPG game on my A1200..but..but if it cannot do that..and just be able to run DOS games on it..I am ok with that. I am happy with that. I have no objection with that :D :D :D :sealed:


There is a source fork out there that allows for 98 to run and for Glide emulation, but I'm very much sure that is a bit much for a meager 680x0 to handle no matter if it's running at 80Mhz or not.

AROS could in theory do it though. I've ran 98 at a nice speed in AROS, but it was standard DOSbox and did not include all the bonus and much needed features of the forked edition.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on February 08, 2013, 05:42:15 AM
I'm only hoping to reach 386sx speed on my A1200, in other words fast enough to be able play great games like Wing Commander 2, X-Wing, Ultima Underworld etc.  

Obviously if it ever got up to 486 speeds on real hardware then that would be awesome but it's way too early to tell at this stage.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: XDelusion on February 08, 2013, 05:46:11 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;725774
I'm only hoping to reach 386sx speed on my A1200, in other words fast enough to be able play great games like Wing Commander 2, X-Wing, Ultima Underworld etc.  

Obviously if it ever got up to 486 speeds on real hardware then that would be awesome but it's way too early to tell at this stage.


Ultima Underworld would be and accomplishment and well worth the effort. Now that I am drooling for! :)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: fishy_fiz on February 08, 2013, 07:00:28 AM
Dosbox is somewhat slower than pc-task, so Id be surprised if you reached even "high end" 286 speed even on the fastest of '060's. Remember that even sam boards struggle to perform at low-mid spec 386 speed.
Running my 68k/os3.x Dosbox under amithlon on a core2duo @ 3.86ghz gives roughly mid spec 486 speed, so being that my amithlon box is probably 100x as fast as the fastest '060.......  :)

Absolutely no chance of running running Win98 or ME. In theory 98 can be installed, but it'll be slow as all heck. ME simply wont work. The only amiga-oid system capable of running 98 at a usable speed is x86 aros both because the speed of the hardware its running on, and because of the Dosbox code paths (and maturity of those code paths) avaiable to it.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: Xanxi on February 08, 2013, 08:58:47 AM
Yeah it would be a huge work to do better than PC-Task v4.4 with DosBox. PC-Task emulates a 486 but on a 68060@50MHz and a lot of RAM it performs just a bit faster than the Commodore A2286, which is not bad.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: haywirepc on February 08, 2013, 10:46:01 AM
I still have huge amounts of dos games on my linux system. Someday I'll have time to move them over to my aros box, but most of my hobby computer time is spent on linux these days.

Congrats to novacoder for even attempting porting dosbox. I never tried pc-task but I know its a bit more complicated to setup I've heard. I already know how to use dosbox quite well on my windows and linux box... Couldn't be simpler.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: spirantho on February 08, 2013, 11:02:17 AM
PC-Task is very easy to set up. The only vaguely complicated bit is that you have to choose the best Amiga screenmodes for the PC modes, and that's simple.

I'd be very impressed if DOSbox gets more than a 286 speed, myself. Ultima Underworld would be a heck of an achievement - I wouldn't hold your breath on that one. :) Remember an A1200 is only 50MHz at most, and RAM speed isn't particularly fast - and when it comes to emulation CPU speed and RAM speed are both very important.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: fishy_fiz on February 08, 2013, 11:30:29 AM
For those wanting to run Ultima Underworld on their classic amiga perhaps tsshp (open source project for running ultima underworld and system shock) would give better performance than running it emulated. Having said that though Im not sure how "complete" it is.

Despite this I am looking forward to DosBox AGA still and wish Novacoder all the best with it. After having worked on DosBox a little here and there for the last 5 years though I think I have a pretty good idea of what of expect from it, hence my expectation posted in my last post (thought I should back peddle a little as I didnt mean to, nor want to sound negative).
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on February 08, 2013, 11:52:18 AM
Thanks :)

PCTask is very old, we need something more modern for our 20 year old machines ;)

As to the performance, we'll see what we can do.....
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: XDelusion on February 08, 2013, 12:11:12 PM
Quote from: fishy_fiz;725796
For those wanting to run Ultima Underworld on their classic amiga perhaps tsshp (open source project for running ultima underworld and system shock) would give better performance than running it emulated. Having said that though Im not sure how "complete" it is.

Despite this I am looking forward to DosBox AGA still and wish Novacoder all the best with it. After having worked on DosBox a little here and there for the last 5 years though I think I have a pretty good idea of what of expect from it, hence my expectation posted in my last post (thought I should back peddle a little as I didnt mean to, nor want to sound negative).


Fishy! Long time no see man! :)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: fishy_fiz on February 08, 2013, 01:37:57 PM
@XDelusion

Howdy :)
Yeah, I had a bit of a break from all things amiga (real life gets in the way sometimes), and stopped using amiga.org for a while once I came back 'cos it got a bit too "vs." for my tastes. Seems to have mellowed a little now though thankfully (touch wood) so I'll probably be around a bit more from now on.
Cant wait until I finish my (very behind schedule) 68k installer for x86 aros, 'cos I'm itching to do some more stuff for aros and 68k amiga.
Novacoder has inspired me :)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: XDelusion on February 08, 2013, 05:50:39 PM
Quote from: fishy_fiz;725801
@XDelusion

Howdy :)
Yeah, I had a bit of a break from all things amiga (real life gets in the way sometimes), and stopped using amiga.org for a while once I came back 'cos it got a bit too "vs." for my tastes. Seems to have mellowed a little now though thankfully (touch wood) so I'll probably be around a bit more from now on.
Cant wait until I finish my (very behind schedule) 68k installer for x86 aros, 'cos I'm itching to do some more stuff for aros and 68k amiga.
Novacoder has inspired me :)


I know the feeling, what ever happened to a little healthy trolling just for fun's sake? Everyone gets so hateful and serious when they troll anymore, gives trolls a bad rap, and bridges too for that matter! :)

Glad to see you back around, I've been wondering if you had any new top secret projects going on, and have still been using your old ones (DosBOX on AROS to be exact).

 Nova does have a way of inspiring doesn't he? :)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on February 14, 2013, 10:16:44 AM
DosBox AGA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhlvYLgONzA&feature=youtu.be)

I've always wanted to play this on my A1200.

;)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on June 01, 2013, 12:26:34 AM
This port is now DOA :(

Unfortunately I discovered without some specialized ASM skills (which I lack) it would never be much use on real hardware because it's so friggen demanding!

I did spend a few months working with Matt Hey trying to get an ASM 68k softcore working but we never quite got there unfortunately.

Rather than simply throw away the months of work that I spent porting and optimizing this emulator, I thought I'd upload it so people can see what could have been (using WinUAE).

I've included the full source code so maybe someone will do something good with it.

It is compiled for 060 but seems to run ok if you set WinUAE to 030 + FPU.

Oh well, can't win them all...........  


[youtube]FuXmfMuFJrc[/youtube]
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: amiman99 on June 01, 2013, 01:23:25 AM
@NovaCoder
How is your port of DosBox compare with PCTask?
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: AmigaClassicRule on June 01, 2013, 01:27:29 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;736522
As some people know, one of my projects was to bring the current version of DosBox over to AGA 68k (nothing like a challenge and I managed ok with my ScummVM ports)
Unfortunately I discovered without some specialized ASM skills (which I lack) it would never be much use on real hardware because it's so friggen demanding
I did spend a few months working with Matt Hey trying to get an ASM 68k softcore working but we never quite got there unfortunately, read all about it in the links section below.
Rather than simply throw away the months of work that I spent porting and optimizing this emulator, I thought I'd upload it so people can see what could have been (using WinUAE).

I've included the full source code so maybe someone will do something good with it.
It is compiled for 060 but seems to run ok if you set WinUAE to 030 + FPU.

Oh well, can't win them all...........  


[youtube]FuXmfMuFJrc[/youtube]

Any idea how much RAM I need to run DOSBox?
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on June 01, 2013, 01:52:22 AM
Quote from: amiman99;736523
@NovaCoder
How is your port of DosBox compare with PCTask?


Slower ;)

DOSBox is a better choice for gaming, it would have been cool if it was fast enough on real hardware.

I'd say because the program itself is over 20MB you'd need to configure UAE to at least 64MB
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: Darrin on June 01, 2013, 02:14:59 AM
It will be interesting to see how it could run on the FPGA Arcade with the 68060 daughterboard.  RAM certainly won't be an issue then.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: F1Lupo on June 28, 2014, 03:53:18 PM
Any news on seeing Ultima UnderWorld on our miggies ?
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on November 21, 2014, 10:45:34 AM
Quote from: klx300r;767805
Any news on seeing Ultima UnderWorld on our miggies ?


I did actually 'finish' this port for AGA years ago ;)

Unfortunately it's way too slow to be of any much use on a real Amiga.

If I ever get the energy I may try and apply some more speed-up hacks and perhaps use my updated RTG SDL to do an RTG version with window mode support.

Don't have much time for 68k coding these days unfortunately :(
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: rvo_nl on November 21, 2014, 10:50:19 AM
Quote from: NovaCoder;777920
I did actually 'finish' this port for AGA years ago ;)

Unfortunately it's way too slow to be of any much use on a real Amiga.

If I ever get the energy I may try and apply some more speed-up hacks and perhaps use my updated RTG SDL to do an RTG version with window mode support.

Don't have much time for 68k coding these days unfortunately :(

too bad! the world needs your code! ;)

can you define 'way too slow', though? would be nice to try it out.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on November 21, 2014, 11:06:10 AM
Quote from: rvo_nl;777921
too bad! the world needs your code! ;)

can you define 'way too slow', though? would be nice to try it out.


Thanks, my boss doesn't think so!

;)

About this slow!

[youtube]1Am-3TjsOWo[/youtube]
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: rvo_nl on November 21, 2014, 11:35:23 AM
Sorry, thought you were talking about Ultima Underworld, thought I missed something :) Ofcourse I knew about Dosbox, but I can run it on RTG myself :) And, I wouldnt call this slow. Its fun for testing things at least!
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: rvo_nl on December 01, 2014, 09:20:17 AM
it seems I did miss something..
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nffOaex-R8Q
 
 is this for real? was it ever finished? I can hardly find anything on this online.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on December 01, 2014, 09:36:29 AM
Quote from: rvo_nl;778778
it seems I did miss something..
 
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nffOaex-R8Q
 
 is this for real? was it ever finished? I can hardly find anything on this online.


That's another one of my ports, keep up old chap ;)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: rvo_nl on December 01, 2014, 10:10:25 AM
haha, you have too many projects! however, I knew it was you, I just wanted to know if you ever finished this and where I can obtain more information? its not in your sig, i checked that first :)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on December 01, 2014, 10:43:46 AM
Quote from: rvo_nl;778784
haha, you have too many projects! however, I knew it was you, I just wanted to know if you ever finished this and where I can obtain more information? its not in your sig, i checked that first :)


Nope, I never finished it (currently sitting on my A1200's hard drive).

I'm not doing much Amiga coding these days.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: rvo_nl on December 01, 2014, 10:48:18 AM
alright, thanks for the info. and too bad! hope you'll have time to finish it one day.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on December 03, 2015, 04:09:53 AM
Quote from: rvo_nl;778787
alright, thanks for the info. and too bad! hope you'll have time to finish it one day.

My final release is a little bit quicker and might be just enough to play some old PC games if you have enough MIPS (overclocked 060 only).

Obviously if FPGA accelerator cards get fast enough then this port will be awesome for Miggy AGA users :)

[youtube]sBahgGWG6v0[/youtube]
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on February 05, 2019, 05:41:35 AM
I recently released an RTG version of my old DosBox 68K port (only took me a few years  ;D)

It's still damn slow on real classic hardware but might be handy for running DOS utils or maybe an old EGA adventure game.

http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=96151 (http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=96151)

If you do try it on real hardware or FPGA/WinUAE/Amithlon then make sure you set the correct core and cycles in the config file.

For real hardware you should use the 'simple' core and cycles set to 1,000 or even less (fast 060, don't even bother with an 040).   If you have a fast FPGA then you could try the 'simple' core with say 1,000-3,000 cycles and on WinUAE/AROS/Amithlon then it's better to use the more stable 'normal' core and a setting for say 10,000 cycle (depending on how old the game is).

 :)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: rvo_nl on February 05, 2019, 06:01:49 PM
Nice! Thanks for the update! Will be fun to give this a try soon :)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on February 12, 2019, 05:35:30 AM
No idea how many cycles this was using but DOSBox RTG is working pretty well on Vampire.  An old VGA adventure game or dungeon crawler would probably be playable.

http://youtu.be/a2AW7tDV3Fo (http://youtu.be/a2AW7tDV3Fo)

I'd call that a success considering how friggin demanding DOSBox is to run (runs slowly on a Pentium 166 apparently).
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: pyrre on February 12, 2019, 09:30:38 AM
Would dosbox 68K be able to take advantage of 2/3/486 bridgeboards or pc emulators that were made?
(i know you can setup a full blown pc on them, and even use ISA in bog box machines for video display)
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: amiadudeorwat on February 13, 2019, 03:05:06 AM
No, that wouldn't make any sense.  There could be some case to be made for the sound emulation running on the ISA bus like how PC-Task could use an ISA sound card with the Goldengate card.  Otherwise the bridgeboard is going to run far faster natively than somehow throwing Video data across the ISA to Zorro bus.
Title: Re: dosbox for amiga 68k?
Post by: NovaCoder on October 28, 2019, 09:11:02 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb-0EsIrbfw&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb-0EsIrbfw&feature=youtu.be)

 8)