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The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: on May 18, 2003, 08:06:31 PM

Title: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: on May 18, 2003, 08:06:31 PM
http://www.petitiononline.com/scosueme/petition.html (http://www.petitiononline.com/scosueme/petition.html)

If you think SCO are wrong in their action against Linux distro's and users.

Sign the petition.  I have.

Come on SCO, sue me you bastards! :-)
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: Tomas on May 18, 2003, 08:11:26 PM
i totally agree that SCOs actions are totally wrong, but since i have no job, i cannot affourd being sued  :-(

You never know, they might actually win this case in US courts, stranger things have happened  :boohoo:
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: mpdox on May 18, 2003, 08:12:22 PM
I think linux must die!!! The sooner the better for all of us...
Finally, I see some actions against this plague of computers...
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: Tomas on May 18, 2003, 08:14:09 PM
Quote

mpdox wrote:
I think linux must die!!! The sooner the better for all of us...
Finally, I see some actions against this plague of computers...

I really hope you are joking....
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: amigamad on May 18, 2003, 08:16:03 PM
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: on May 18, 2003, 08:18:43 PM
They won't stand a chance if they sued me.  My lawyer would destroy them.
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: mpdox on May 18, 2003, 08:24:30 PM
Quote

Tomas wrote:
Quote

mpdox wrote:
I think linux must die!!! The sooner the better for all of us...
Finally, I see some actions against this plague of computers...

I really hope you are joking....


Unfortunatelly, no...
There was never an innovation brought in from linux world regarding computers (software or hardware). The linux fanatics only know to bash microsoft and make noise... That's all they do, all day long.
And of course, immediately I say something like this, you'll see here soon enough, all the posts here will be against microsoft (I have a lot of anger against microsoft myself, but that's different). Because that's all that this so-called operating system can produce. Innovate something? Make a software that is not a copy of something already in the market? No way. But noise? Oh, yeah, you'll see...
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: Tomas on May 18, 2003, 08:29:13 PM
Just cause some linux users is lamers, dosent mean the operative system sucks...

Why i run linux, is cause its free and stable compared to windows. Everything i need for it is free... mail server, web server, office applications and so on.. Ontop of this, it runs faster on my hardware... works fine even with as little as 64megs of ram..  :-)

I do also have one computer running windows, cause of my gaming needs and dvb/capturing needs...
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: mpdox on May 18, 2003, 08:40:47 PM
Quote

Tomas wrote:
Just cause some linux users is lamers, dosent mean the operative system sucks...

Why i run linux, is cause its free and stable compared to windows. Everything i need for it is free... mail server, web server, office applications and so on.. Ontop of this, it runs faster on my hardware... works fine even with as little as 64megs of ram..  :-)

I do also have one computer running windows, cause of my gaming needs and dvb/capturing needs...


Ok, I must admit, maybe if more linux users will be like you, I wouln't have so much against it...

But again I have to ask, my motives for being against linux is that there is no innovation from linux coming, and I love computers (loong way since I had my sinclair spectrum) so I want to see them advancing. How is linux helping me in this matter? I want to see a computer like in star trek during my lifetime, damn it... The fact that linux is running with 64 mb of ram means exactly nothing, sorry. I have 512...
You know, my sinclair had 48 k of ram, and it booted in about two seconds... For sure, it is the most advanced computer in the world...
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: Kees on May 18, 2003, 08:41:43 PM
Call me stupid ... but what is the SCO ??
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: mpdox on May 18, 2003, 08:49:20 PM
Quote

nOMAAM wrote:
Call me stupid ... but what is the SCO ??


I'm not sure my memory serves me right, but I think they own Unix - yes, intelectual property or something - (back from the days SCO was Caldera) and they want to make some money out of these rights... It's stupid and useless, but we're living in a strange world anyway. Back to the topic, some poeple suspect that microsoft is behind this, and I don't think I would be surprised to find out that it is true :-)
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: mbilla on May 18, 2003, 08:50:24 PM
What if this is just a trick of SCO to know all the private LINUX users out there? :-)

Gotcha! SCO will take your $$$$$
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: mbilla on May 18, 2003, 08:53:51 PM
Quote
I think linux must die!!! The sooner the better for all of us...


Bullshit!

Microsoft and their non working spying OS must die.

Linux worked from day one on Windows is still crashing even XP.

LINUX is a copy of UNIX and what is Windows? A copy of everything what was invented before already.

M$ haven't really inventde something usefull that wasn't there before:
No they didn't invent the internet, no they didn't invent the mouse driven OS, they're just a gang of lawers who steal everything they can.
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: amigamad on May 18, 2003, 09:02:49 PM
Quote
You know, my sinclair had 48 k of ram, and it booted in about two seconds... For sure, it is the most advanced computer in the world...


Thats funny i had a zx spectrum 48k it never booted because it had no hard drive it came on and you could use basic in 2 seconds yes but games took 5 to 10 minutes to load>? :-o
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: mpdox on May 18, 2003, 09:04:18 PM
Quote

Bullshit!
Microsoft and their non working spying OS must die.


Yes, linux users, in defending your operating system (monolithic design in the nineties, who would be that stupid?) do what you do best, bash microsoft for all your fears and failures...
You know, that fact that I don't like linux, doesn't mean that immediately you have to tell me "that stupid xp is crashing every minute". You can do better, I'm sure...
But I think I know where this is going anyway, too bad...
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: mpdox on May 18, 2003, 09:12:10 PM
Quote

Thats funny i had a zx spectrum 48k it never booted because it had no hard drive it came on and you could use basic in 2 seconds yes but games took 5 to 10 minutes to load>? :-o


I can't believe it... Next message you'll tell me, "oh, and I forgot, the sinclair had low resolution and such stupid sound"... I was trying to make a point about the low-end hardware in the 21th century. I need an OS that takes advantage of my hardware TODAY, not to start xwindows and transform my P4 into a 386...

But still, about my sinclair, those were fun times, you can't disagree...  :-D
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: Tomas on May 18, 2003, 09:18:54 PM
Quote

nOMAAM wrote:
Call me stupid ... but what is the SCO ??

SCO is caldera, which bought the unix name some time ago... They now claim linux has a piece of code from unix.. They refuse to show the so called code, they released a linux themself.. caldera linux and SCO linux... so they are practically suing themself  :lol:

They are a dying company, most people think they are doing this to get IBM to buy them...
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: Tomas on May 18, 2003, 09:21:40 PM
hehe mpdox... i guess its a long time since you used linux.. It has come a long way for the last couple of years... For example... UT2003 runs actually better on linux here, than on win2k...

It still could be more userfriendly though..
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: mpdox on May 18, 2003, 10:17:10 PM
Quote

Tomas wrote:
hehe mpdox... i guess its a long time since you used linux.. It has come a long way for the last couple of years... For example... UT2003 runs actually better on linux here, than on win2k...

It still could be more userfriendly though..


Last time I remember it was 1999... I was fighing with ipfwadm and squid back then. Man, that squid crashed a lot...
By the way what is used as a proxy now usually? And for firewall rules?
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: Quixote on May 18, 2003, 10:33:59 PM
mpdox moped:
Quote
...I want to see a computer like in star trek during my lifetime, damn it...
;-) So do I.  But if Microsoft have their way with it, it will be more like the HAL 9000 computer is 2001, a Space Odyssey:  

[img align=left]http://amiga.org/images/subject/icon21.gif[/img]"I said, 'open the front door to the house,' Bill."  

[img align=left]http://amiga.org/images/subject/icon34.gif[/img]"I'm sorry, Dave.  I'm afraid I can't do that.  (A)bort, (R)etry, (F)ail?"

Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: alx on May 18, 2003, 10:45:05 PM
More like:

"Open the door, Bill"

"You'll have to pay for it"

"But I don't have enough money"

"Fine - I'll take your house and everything you own off our servers.  All your life are belong to us..."
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: dammy on May 18, 2003, 10:49:14 PM
by nOMAAM on 2003/5/18 15:41:43

Quote
Call me stupid ... but what is the SCO ??


SCO = Santa Cruise (sp?  Name of a town in CA) Operation.  AT&T's old unix which, IIRC, was spun off into SCO.  Either way, they are dead.  They have now kick the shins of Big Blue, even M$ knows better not to do that.  

Dammy, waiting for the Nazguls, err, IBM lawyers to counter sue.
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: Hammer on May 18, 2003, 11:54:47 PM
Quote
I think linux must die!!! The sooner the better for all of us...

It must not die. The world needs competition.  Linux is important for X86 world i.e. one of the main *nix variant for X86 platform.

IF Linux can get MS product’s cost down then it’s a win for consumers. I don’t think X86 Linux will die since they anchor the cheap X86 based servers.  
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: Hammer on May 18, 2003, 11:56:16 PM
Quote
They are a dying company, most people think they are doing this to get IBM to buy them...


I don’t think IBM needs SCO i.e. IBM does have AIX.
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: Hammer on May 19, 2003, 12:06:34 AM
Quote
Microsoft and their non working spying OS must die.

Windows way wouldn't die due to Linux's WINE/WineX.

Quote
Linux worked from day one

Not with Red Hat 7.2 and nVidia GPUs.

[/quote]
on Windows is still crashing even XP.
[/quote]
Applications can still crash; even in memory protected eco-systems. But it shouldn’t take down the OS.

With Windows XP, system drivers run at kernel level(recalling). IF there’s a problem with the drivers Window’s memory protection ecosystem may not able to save the session.

Quote
LINUX is a copy of UNIX and what is Windows?

Windows NT/2K/XP/2003's kernel is similar to DEC’s VMS**. **OS that runs on Alpha AXP.
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: olegil on May 19, 2003, 12:14:32 AM
Quote

Tomas wrote:
Quote

nOMAAM wrote:
Call me stupid ... but what is the SCO ??

SCO is caldera, which bought the unix name some time ago... They now claim linux has a piece of code from unix.. They refuse to show the so called code, they released a linux themself.. caldera linux and SCO linux... so they are practically suing themself  :lol:

They are a dying company, most people think they are doing this to get IBM to buy them...



Ah, ok. Thanks. I maintain an embedded webserver running Linux and our own software, which we sell to customers. So I guess I'll be sued! :-)
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: B00tDisk on May 19, 2003, 03:01:31 AM
Linux is free if your time is valueless.
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: iamaboringperson on May 19, 2003, 03:17:06 AM
Quote

mpdox wrote:
Quote

Tomas wrote:
Quote

mpdox wrote:
I think linux must die!!! The sooner the better for all of us...
Finally, I see some actions against this plague of computers...

I really hope you are joking....


Unfortunatelly, no...
There was never an innovation brought in from linux world regarding computers (software or hardware). The linux fanatics only know to bash microsoft and make noise... That's all they do, all day long.
And of course, immediately I say something like this, you'll see here soon enough, all the posts here will be against microsoft (I have a lot of anger against microsoft myself, but that's different). Because that's all that this so-called operating system can produce. Innovate something? Make a software that is not a copy of something already in the market? No way. But noise? Oh, yeah, you'll see...


even though i use linux now - i would have to agree with you there - you do make a valid point

Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: dammy on May 19, 2003, 04:37:11 AM
by B00tDisk on 2003/5/18 22:01:31

Quote
Linux is free if your time is valueless


I hear that alot, but it doesn't make any sense.  If anything, I'm spending alot less time with Linux vs Windows.  Yet I'm doing so much more with Linux then I do with Windows (mostly playing Dark Ages of Camelot or using the web cam).  On a day to day basis, I've had alot less problems screwing around with problems then I had with my amiga and that damned Dataflyier SCSI controller.

Dammy
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: Ilwrath on May 19, 2003, 05:09:50 AM
Quote
But again I have to ask, my motives for being against linux is that there is no innovation from linux coming, and I love computers (loong way since I had my sinclair spectrum) so I want to see them advancing. How is linux helping me in this matter? I want to see a computer like in star trek during my lifetime, damn it...


Hmm...  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the computers in Star Trek were universal.  They didn't suffer from closed proprietary data formats that could only be opened by one particular vendor's products.  They were also robust, reliable, and secure.  

So, it makes perfect sense why you'd want to kill the only operating system that values security over senseless macro-enabled e-mail readers.  (???????)  And you ask "What has Linux done for you," when it's the only OS that is pushing for truely open and documented standards.  

The code itself may be derivative of the original proprietary UNIX, and some forward progress may be slow.  But I'd offer that its a calculated slow, in order to ensure that mistakes are minimized.  Personally, I'd rather wait a few years and get it RIGHT, rather than live in a world innundated with half-baked ideas implemented as fast as they could be typed.  (Just look at the nightmares Microsoft has introduced!  Do you really want to live in the best future that could be written by the 5pm deadline??)  

I think the philosophy behind Linux is the only way the world will possibly see the type of reliability and USEFUL functionality of the fictional Star Trek computers.

Besides... I offer YOU the question.... What has Microsoft done for you?
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: Tesral on May 19, 2003, 06:17:37 AM
Quote

mpdox wrote:


But again I have to ask, my motives for being against linux is that there is no innovation from linux coming, and I love computers (loong way since I had my sinclair spectrum) so I want to see them advancing. How is linux helping me in this matter? I want to see a computer like in star trek during my lifetime, damn it... The fact that linux is running with 64 mb of ram means exactly nothing, sorry. I have 512...


Look at it this way.  If it will run in 64 meg of RAM, what will it do with 512meg?

I just built a PC, brand new.  I installed SeUS Linux on it.  I have steep learning curve ahead of me, but the local Linux people are nothing if not helpful.

Linux is in itself an innovation.  An OS who's code is an open book to anyone.  Bugs are not only reported by the users of that code, but FIXED by them.  Often the same person that reports the bug will patch the bug.  Personally I am glad such people exist.  And with Linux they can do that.  Try patching the bugs in Windows, or even the Amiga code.  Both are closed books, "No user serviceable parts inside".  If you are hampered by a bug you must wait for the "official" patch, however long that might take.

Linux is indeed reinventing the wheel, but in such a way as we can all make wheels.  If we are going to see that "Star Trek" computer, I am convinced it will come from the open source community of admitted computer nerds, not a monolithic cooperation that thinks only of the bottom line, and how much it can squeeze out of said nerds.

Yes, Linux is a little behind in the the features department.  A little slow with hardware support.  Then again what hardware makers are working with them?  They have to pry the information out to build drivers.  However Linux is the place innovation is going to happen.
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: Erwin-K on May 19, 2003, 11:26:46 PM
Hi All,

I also posted this to the news item about M$ licensing SCO Unix. (Great timing, what?)

http://www.opensource.org/sco-vs-ibm.html

That is the Open Source community's take on the suit's merits & lack thereof. It is intended as a "Friend Of The Court" brief if this @#$%*! filing ever proceeds far enough to warrent the counter filing.

Lots of Unix history and and mostly footnoted links. (BTW, SCO's biggest customer seems to be Ronald McDonald.)  :-o
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: on May 19, 2003, 11:30:48 PM
http://news.com.com/2010-1071_3-1007758.html?tag=fd_nc_1 (http://news.com.com/2010-1071_3-1007758.html?tag=fd_nc_1)

Bruce Perens take on the whole fiasco.

Some very interesting points in here.
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: createcoms on May 20, 2003, 12:05:37 AM
In the words of the mp3.com group three dead trolls and a baggie - "LINUX IS A GREAT BIG MESS FOR LEADIST NURDY SMUCHS"


Bring me back the real unix, unix for men!
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: jeffimix on May 20, 2003, 12:10:00 AM
A couple things. IIRC IBM has Aix becuase SCO licenses it to them. Microsoft also have kicked IBM in the shins, remember OS/2 ? Its windows 3.1 compliant cause its what NT was supposed to be. Windows 95 was a rush job after M$ backed out of its deals with IBM.
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: jeffimix on May 20, 2003, 12:23:40 AM
SCO... silly desperate people.  Linux people don't innovate, they refine., and make endless free minor variations, like mailing clients, there're probably hundreds for Linux. This lets in natural selection. Apache beats the other web services et cetera.  Mozilla beats other web browsers (not counting text only ones mind you). I just wish it were more compact and fast, wait, whats this version here? Its just harder to find speedy small Linux versions than say, boated 1 gigabyte ones. nice OS for what it's supposed to do though. M$ have a lot to lose if they lose the server market, a lot. Eventually companies even use Linux terminals cause Linux might work a bit better with Linux, and if its free, runs on cheap hardware, and does all this stuff, why not? M$ have every right to be afraid of Linux, its got a lot of power behind it. And companies like Big Blue,  Novell, and Oracle. And Sun Microsystems is every bit as big as M$.

ED: (because 3 posts in a row is two posts too many): Oh and HMetal, my time is valueless, so Linux is free Thank you so very much. =) Students have their advantages.
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: iCreate on June 15, 2003, 01:53:24 PM
Not only is SCO wrong, but they themselves helped move code over to Linux with the Caldera distro.
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: mikeymike on June 15, 2003, 02:07:15 PM
@ Tesral
Quote

Look at it this way. If it will run in 64 meg of RAM, what will it do with 512meg?


Not necessarily any better.  Just because an OS has more RAM available it doesn't necessarily mean it will run faster.  Does a basic install of AmigaOS 3.1 run any faster with 4MB RAM or 40MB RAM available?  No.  It all depends on what you're doing with it.

@ everyone

As a side note, guys, please tone down the OS bashing/advocacy.  It's about as interesting as listening to a broken record.
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: jeffimix on June 15, 2003, 02:50:16 PM
Love is all you n, Love is all you n, Love is all you n, Love is all you n.
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: mikeymike on June 15, 2003, 03:14:42 PM
erm? :-)
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: csirac_ on June 15, 2003, 03:48:28 PM
There are many here generalising that Linux is bloated, slow, and lacking in innovation. Well I would have to generalise that none of you have seriously tried to use Linux, at least not in the last 2 years.

I do not have a Windows partition of any sort on any of my 3 PC's hard drives; although I do have a VMware image for Win98SE that runs a couple of CAD/simulation tools for my Eng. degree.

AT VERY WORST - Linux is only equally as lacking in innovation as Windows. At the worst. As far as bloated apps go - the apps themselves are not bloated!  FAR FROM IT! Linux is positivly the BEST OS I have seen in terms of apps actually utilising shared libraries. Those who have been unfortunate enough to use Redhat will know what I mean, if they have ever tried to install an RPM and found the myriad of dependancies that aren't met. Those dependcy failures show you just some of the libraries that it is using, rather than inventing it's own code or linking statically..

Again: In general the apps themselves are not bloated; it's the number of apps. You may have got the bloated concept from a "install everything" distro like Redhat. Well I have to tell you - try installing a barebones Debian or Slackware setup and work it up to the way you like it; much less bloat in the way. I highly recommend Debian, btw - I can search hundreds of thousands of free software packages and have one of them downloaded and installed with the necessary dependancies at the click of a button.

Just the other day I wanted a Finite Element Method software package (for evaluating a system of Partial Differential Equations - in my case simulating electric fields with varying dielectric structures). I thought "Surely apt wouldn't have something like that, I need to go to the labs and use Matlab or Mathematica"... but hey! There's freefem - and whilst it isn't the greatest, it did the job (sort of ;). I guess you could compare apt to aminet, except far better :P

-> Yes, Mozilla is bloated. But there are other browsers such as Galeon, Moz. firebird, etc. that are not. For ascii-only terminals you can even use Lynx. -> Yes OpenOffice.org is bloated. But there is Abiword, too. -> Yes, Gnome 2 & KDE are bloated desktop environments. But you don't have to use them. -> yes, Bind 9 is overkill for your LAN, but there is dnsmasq -> yes, Anjuta C/C++ IDE may be overkill for your syntax highlited editor needs, but there's scite, etc. etc.

As far as bloat goes - yes, I still agree that Linux will use more of your HDD than a lot of other OSs, but the power, functionality and flexibility of the GNU/Linux stuff is often by far leaps and bounds above what you care to be comparing to. Remember, there is no central control over the development of the Linux desktop. Some of the bloat is in duplication of libraries - the OSS world is competitive and irrational; everyone doesn't just use one GUI API, they have over a dozen to choose from. There isn't just one printing system, there are at least half a dozen that I have tried. There are competing X font servers, etc. But the point is you get choice, and the competition enables continuous quality and innovation (and a lot of copying of that innovation between each other AS WELL AS external sources).

The "Unix" architecture that we saw emerge in the 80s was never meant for the single user desktop. There is just so much extra stuff in the Unix world that single user desktops don't have to worry about, apart from multiuser permissions! Batch scripting, job control, scheduling maintenance tasks, logging service activities (for your web, SQL, email servers), post-processing those logs (with your batch/scheduling tools), security updates, development, synchronising data/accounts/services software with other servers, backup systems, service priorities, monitoring & imposing RAM/CPU/HDD/network limits on users, intrusion detection, and general administration.

It takes a lot of unique tools and OS concepts (compared to a single user OS like AmigaOS)  to achieve all this with some kind of flexibility and modularity. That's why Linux is "complicated" and "bloated".

Quote
Last time I remember it was 1999... I was fighing with ipfwadm and squid back then. Man, that squid crashed a lot...
By the way what is used as a proxy now usually? And for firewall rules?


You had trouble with squid? A company I work(ed) for has been using the same box with Squid, running Debian potato, since '98 with nary a crash at all, let alone reboot. It served a 16 line dialup ISP which had around 500 users, as well as the 10 or so PCs internally 24/7.

Squid is the main http proxy in use, there are others with different features/specialities. iptables is the firewall technology in use today. I cheat and use fwbuilder - a drag and drop "object" (rule/protocol/network/host grouping) based GUI firewall builder. It makes firewall/NAT rules a joy to make. Coincidently, webmin has been a godsend for me. A sort of web frontend to just about every Linux administration task you can think of, from setting up cron jobs, SQL admin, Samba shares, firewall rules, starting/stopping services and even rebooting. Great for remote administartion of multiple machines.

As far as innovation goes. I'd like to see (apart from our favourite - AmigaOS ;) a platform that has noticably more innovation going on. Perhaps the Linux kernel & "Unix" feel isn't inspiring for you (I think it does good for a server/multiuser platform) but must insist that Linux application development would have to have a great deal of innovation going on.

Holy crap what a massive rant... sheesh I'm almost embarrassed ;)

- Paul
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: Dementhor on June 15, 2003, 04:21:18 PM
----
mpdox wrote:
I think linux must die!!! The sooner the better for all of us...
Finally, I see some actions against this plague of computers...
-----

Sure, Linux is a copy of something else and originaly started as joke/programming exercise. So what. Today it's the only freely available alternative to M$ stuff. There are even apps for it. I'd say it's definitely an overkill for a personal workstation, but all that's not a reason to demand its extermination. It's not hurting anyone and you're quite free to stop bitching and write something sooo much better. Your attitude's quite nazi.
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: Galahad-Fairlight on June 15, 2003, 05:43:32 PM
You must be tripping right?  I assume that some of the lax drugs laws from neighbouring countries also applies to your home town!

I can think of plenty of reasons why people make a noise about Microsoft, and its not because they are succesful, its because they are succesful by writing atrocious software.

I have had my Amiga's for nigh on 15 years now, and I have NEVER had to format a hard drive because the OS keeps causing problems, yet this is ACCEPTED practice on Windows systems.

Because Microsoft coders have absolutely no idea on the words 'compact', 'lean', and 'optimised', their software is overbloated and needs ridiculous specs to operate.  I mean, Word is a word processor.... since when the hell is it acceptable that it needs 64mb of ram and 300mb of free hard drive space? ITS A WORD PROCESSOR?!?!?!!?

If Microsoft were succesful and producing quality software that didn't need ANOTHER patch to operate correctly, wasn't so damned expensive, etc,  etc, I'm quite sure my load of Amiga's would have been sold years ago.

Frankly, Linux is doing a better job and for free in most cases that Microsoft can't even touch.

At the end of the day, whilst you are entitled to your opinion, that kind of opinion will eventually lead to the collapse of any valid kind of competition to Microsoft, which equals less choice, more cost, which you CANNOT possibly contemplate is a worthwhile risk?

Rant over.
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: mpdox on June 15, 2003, 06:21:14 PM
Quote

Sure, Linux is a copy of something else and originaly started as joke/programming exercise. So what. Today it's the only freely available alternative to M$ stuff. There are even apps for it. I'd say it's definitely an overkill for a personal workstation, but all that's not a reason to demand its extermination. It's not hurting anyone and you're quite free to stop bitching and write something sooo much better. Your attitude's quite nazi.


sigh... I don't think you understand exactly why I hate linux. One of the reasons is the linux fanatics... What has Microsoft to do with anything? The minute I say something about linux, the reaction is exactly the same: M$ stuff... Every time. I called a friend (linux fanatic himself), who was in a bus, and he told me the bus is moving slow, is too hot, for sure is Microsoft's fault). I just called to ask him if he wants to have a drink, but could he escape his linux fanatism? You have no idea how many people are like this.
There are applications for Linux? Yes, there are millions of text editors, mail clients etc... I think I'll do a YAVI myself (Yet Another VI), just to show people how many applications are for linux... Ok, I didn't use linux in more than three years, so my informations are outdated. But I still meet linux fanatics every day, exactly like three years ago. I'm sure, tough, there are very fine and nice applications for it anyway, so my apologies for being ignorant in this field.
In the meantime, I'm enjoying Windows 2000, Visual C++ (I make money with it and it's also fun), DirectX, Internet Explorer, Windows Update, System restore, Terminal Services, really nice Cleartype technology for my 17'' NEC LCD monitor, MS Office, support for every hardware device I would buy, ever. Should I continue? I can't wait to buy a Tablet PC in the near future, so computing will be fun anywhere I go. Yeah, those Microsoft bastards, it's so crazy to run their products...
Linux is the only alternative to Microsoft? How about Solaris or *BSD? How about MacOS X? These are alternatives, not a monolithic design for the kernel, or programs that are only poor made copies of a copy of a copy...
And for you, I am a nazi... You know, when communism came to power in Romania in 1945, they had a tactic to put every enemy of the "superior" communist party in jail. They called the enemy a nazi and that was all... I wonder who was the true enemy of the country back then, the "good" and "beautiful" communism, or the so-called nazi?
So, I'm not bitching about anything. I just don't like something and I say it, what's the problem? Or, suddenly I have to like what you like just because you don't agree with me? Use what you want, let me use what I want and that's all, the world is big enough for all of us. The only difference seems to be that I respect your opinions, but you call a nazi whoever is not a communist...

PS I hate Microsoft myself for some reasons like: Trustworthy computing (this is number one ever in my list), business tactics, monopol industry, killing  OS/2 and home-computing market... But at least I give them the respect for creating a lot of things, and always pushing forward the computer industry, instead of living in 70s forever...
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: mpdox on June 15, 2003, 06:34:51 PM
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I have had my Amiga's for nigh on 15 years now, and I have NEVER had to format a hard drive because the OS keeps causing problems, yet this is ACCEPTED practice on Windows systems.


The same thing I see everywhere... Seems that people never heard of NTFS, they install the latest Windows XP using FAT32... And after having problems (how could you not have problems with a file system designed in 1983 for floppies if used on 200 GB hard disks?), "hei, Microsoft is so stupid, I never had to format my harddrive using my Amiga"...

But ok, I'm tired of these things.
For me, this discussion is over, it never lead anywhere. Seems that all that linux users now about Microsoft is the FAT file system and Windows 95/98 as OS.
I think it's like in Dostoievski's characters, happiness through suffering, this is the best what linux can do...
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: Cymric on June 15, 2003, 08:31:09 PM
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mpdox wrote:
sigh... I don't think you understand exactly why I hate linux. One of the reasons is the linux fanatics...

To which I say: there will always be fanboys without a healthy dose of common sense. Amiga has them. Apple has them. Windows has them. AMD has them. Intel has them. And so on, and so on. Don't hate the product because of the mentality of a minor, very vocal and quite often very immature part of the user base. However, you should realise that loudly proclaiming you want to see the OS die puts you on the same par as the Linux fanboys you so despise.

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... PS I hate Microsoft myself for some reasons like: Trustworthy computing (this is number one ever in my list), business tactics, monopol industry, killing  OS/2 and home-computing market... But at least I give them the respect for creating a lot of things, and always pushing forward the computer industry, instead of living in 70s forever...

Regrettably, Microsoft are doing anything but pushing forward the computer industry. They deserve credit for one and only one thing, and that is creating a standardised mass market product which allows millions of people to use the computer. Whatever you may think of the company, the fact that they pulled it off in 20 years is nothing short of brilliant. As far as the rest is concerned, Microsoft never innovated or pioneered anything on their own, and the way the company buys, steals, borrows, licences and integrates other people's ideas into ever more complex and bug-ridden programs, means that the company is now in fact holding the industry back rather than propelling it forward.  To illustrate, you might find this link (http://www.euronet.nl/users/frankvw/IhateMS.html) a worthwhile, if very lengthy read.

Mind, I am not saying that 'Linux Is The Best'. because it is not, or not yet. I don't know if it ever will be, and frankly, I don't really care. It would be nice to see it becoming more commonplace, yes. But for now, I'm happy with my setup, just as you are with yours.
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: mikeymike on June 15, 2003, 09:06:14 PM
All operating systems have their issues and benefits, let's not pretend AmigaOS/MorphOS* haven't.

Linux distros have large installs due to the large amount of optional software that comes with them.  If you're going to talk about things on a level playing field, then talk about the absolute most minimal installs of the operating systems, and then things suddenly change dramatically, don't they.

Re: Mozilla being bloated.  Ok, so it takes longer to start up than most browsers.  But Firebird not bloated?  Has anyone checked the installation footprints of both?  I have on win32... Mozilla comes out at 19MB, Firebird comes out at 17MB.  Considering especially also Mozilla can currently do more than just be a browser.

* - ok, so I haven't used MorphOS, but I would place a large bet that at version 1.4 it isn't perfect.
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: mpdox on June 15, 2003, 11:29:54 PM
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However, you should realise that loudly proclaiming you want to see the OS die puts you on the same par as the Linux fanboys you so despise.


I have to admit, my first statement wasn't mature at all... Just an example, linux is used more and more nowadays in embedded systems like video recorders and so on, and it's doing a very good job from what I hear from some of the friends working with it... So, my mistake, sorry.
It's just that... linux people are too arrogant for my taste. They tell me, "hei, I know how to save from vi, I know to use fdisk and set up a dial-up connection, I'm so smart and Microsoft is so stupid". Well, guess what, I know those things too and it's not a big deal at all. I don't know if you understand what I'm trying to say, but it's what you do with the computer what matters, not HOW you do it...
About Microsoft's innovation, there were times when I thought it's the worst in the world. Selling Windows 95 when Pentium Pro (a real 32 bit processor) was out there was so bad for what I wanted... But ok, finally they're only pushing NT now on the market, which (in my opinion) is indeed a good operating system. Anyway, we'll see what happens, I don't think I like too many things in Longhorn anyway...
Title: Re: Hey SCO, sue me! Petition online now
Post by: csirac_ on June 16, 2003, 12:58:10 AM
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They tell me, "hei, I know how to save from vi, I know to use fdisk and set up a dial-up connection, I'm so smart and Microsoft is so stupid".


I'm sorry the Linux users you've met are this way. You know I hear this stereotype a lot, but I've only really met one person who would match it in real life. Not that I get out much, though ;)

Note that I haven't put windows down (except that as far as a platform goes it possibly has less innovation relative to linux). For 10 weeks of the year I repair, service, and install Windows PCs and networks.