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Operating System Specific Discussions => Amiga OS => Amiga OS -- Development => Topic started by: newbee on January 26, 2003, 11:41:22 PM

Title: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for "Dual booting"???
Post by: newbee on January 26, 2003, 11:41:22 PM
Dear Amiga SE Owners and developers

Just a quick question.

Does the AmigaOne have the "early boot menu" and can it be used to boot different OS's (Or even varients of the same OS eg "flavours of Linux")???

Regards
Darren
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: Calen on January 26, 2003, 11:49:43 PM
It was said that OS4 will have an early start-up menu much the same as the original (old news that may have changed)  It may  come with added features or modified based around the hardware, dunno about the dual boot though
 :-?
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: elendil on January 27, 2003, 12:10:08 AM
Is the point of the early startup menu not that it is BEFORE the OS, that being hardware?

So that you are able to boot to access a non-bootable harddrive for instance.

Not trying to flame anyone here (especially not if I am wrong :)), but I would like to know if the A1 has such a menu or if OS4 has some strange, useless (to me) startup-menu.

Sincerely,
-Kenneth Straarup.
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: Dagon on January 27, 2003, 12:21:37 AM
@those that own an AmigaOne
What happens if someone holds the two mouse buttons after a reboot?



@agli italiani
L`Amigone e` il giusto nome! come il laserone in Austin Powers :-D Col mio fratello lo chiamiamo cosi faciendo quel gesto che facieva il Dottor Male :-D :-D
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: L8-X on January 27, 2003, 12:23:53 AM
They go click!

Sorry couldn`t resist it ;-)  :-D
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: Argo on January 27, 2003, 12:24:01 AM
Yeah, It'll dual boot. Check the AmigaOne and AmigaOS4 mailing lists on YahooGroups. People are dual booting now with various Linux distros and yes, you will be able to do that with OS 4.

AmigaOne Mailing list (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amigaone/messagesearch?query=dual%20boot)

AmigaOS4 Mailing List (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AmigaOS4/messagesearch/4619?query=dual%20boot)
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: Argo on January 27, 2003, 12:33:13 AM
@those that own an AmigaOne
What happens if someone holds the two mouse buttons after a reboot?

I don't have an A1, but since they only run Linux at the moment til OS4 is released, I assume that would have the same effect as on a X86 Linux version distro ie. not much. click, click.
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: newbee on January 27, 2003, 01:07:20 AM
@Argo

I thought that the early satrt menu can from BIOS so happened prior to OS load.

In which case it should not matter what OS you boot.

Regards
Darren
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: Dagon on January 27, 2003, 01:17:25 AM
Lets make it more clear, does it have early startup menu the way classic Amigas have? (like newbee asked, from bios or some sort of rom?)

@owners that have Pegasos
Does Pegasos have an early startup menu?
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: iamaboringperson on January 27, 2003, 01:46:53 AM
screen shots please!  :-D
i want loads of detail!!
rather than breif sumaries etc...
a HUGE, FULL review all on one big web site would be cool....
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: Argo on January 27, 2003, 02:32:10 AM
Guess we'll have to wait til OS 4.0 is released to know for sure, unless we heard it from Hyperion or Eyetech before then.

All I know is that Hyperion has said that OS 4 will have an early startup menu. Weither it is in BIOS or not, they didn't say.
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: newbee on January 27, 2003, 03:03:19 AM
@argo
Quote
All I know is that Hyperion has said that OS 4 will have an early startup menu. Weither it is in BIOS or not, they didn't say.

It's hard to tell, they wrote both...

Regards
Darren
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: Seehund on January 27, 2003, 08:00:20 AM
What's the big deal with how a firmware settings screen looks like?
- "It's black and it's got white characters!"
- "No, it's blue and it's got light-grey characters!"
- "You access it by holding down 'Delete' at power-up!"
- "No, you access it by holding down 'F1'!"

Who cares? It sounds like some people think of modern hardware as an Amiga or something. It's the available settings that are interesting. Can you set both FSB frequency and multiplier? CPU and RAM voltages? Or can these only be adjusted with jumpers on the Teron boards? Et c. All this has of course nothing to do with AmigaOS or whatever other OS you use.

What I wonder is what bootloader is recommended/shipped to dual boot with AmigaOS? Yaboot? Or can PPCBoot handle this by itself?
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: Kay on January 27, 2003, 08:30:14 AM
> Who cares? It sounds like some people think of modern hardware as an Amiga or something.

And the winner of the "one-note horn" award, for the second year in a row, is...SEEHUND!

Seriously, it seems a lot of people cares. Two reasons for this, I think: Firstly, the early startup menu is a typical Amiga feature, which is much liked and something people want on the new machines as well. Secondly, with all these delays, ANY news about the new Amigas are welcome.

Kay
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: DaveP on January 27, 2003, 08:36:51 AM
Its only a little horn, which is probably why it is blown so much.

( Im going to regret that I guess )
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: Seehund on January 27, 2003, 08:59:43 AM
Quote

DaveP wrote:
Its only a little horn, which is probably why it is blown so much.


:D

Don't make me come over there and whip out my horn!


Now, could someone who owns a Teron tell us what firmware options are available? Coder?

And does someone (Rogue, EntilZha...) know how AOS and other OSes will be booted?
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: Orgin on January 27, 2003, 09:00:23 AM
This is my take on what it will be like.

The early startup menu (as in 68k AOS) won't be available until the OS (4.0) itself is booting. That is, after the BIOS boot up and OS selection.

Steps:

1. Normal BIOS boot (press Fx-key for BIOS settings)
2. Grub or similar startup menu (for booting different oses)
3. Selected OS boot
3.1 If booting 4.0, an early startup menu will be available by using the standard hot key (LMB+RMB)
3.2 If booting another OS, that OS's standard boot procedure will execute.

Can't see why it would/should be made in another way than the above.

/Björn
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: Seehund on January 27, 2003, 09:10:09 AM
Quote

Kay wrote:
> Who cares?

Seriously, it seems a lot of people cares. Two reasons for this, I think: Firstly, the early startup menu is a typical Amiga feature, which is much liked and something people want on the new machines as well.


Guess I should have phrased it "Why do some people seem to care" then. It seems to be the same people who seem to make up a worryingly large percentage of the OS4 and "AmigaOne" Yahoo MLs. "The Amiga had an Early Startup Screen, accessible by holding down both mouse buttons and letting you do things like choosing NTSC/PAL from a grey screen with button gadgets and a Topaz font. Other hardware must have this too!! And we want boing ball animations!!!" In *my* eyes this is irrational and meaningless and has nothing to do with AmigaOS. Oh well.
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: Seehund on January 27, 2003, 09:14:12 AM
Quote

Orgin wrote:

Steps:

1. Normal BIOS boot (press Fx-key for BIOS settings)
2. Grub or similar startup menu (for booting different oses)
3. Selected OS boot
3.1 If booting 4.0, an early startup menu will be available by using the standard hot key (LMB+RMB)
3.2 If booting another OS, that OS's standard boot procedure will execute.

Can't see why it would/should be made in another way than the above.


Agreed. If there are AmigaOS-specific boot options, they should of course be accessible from AmigaOS, not the firmware of whatever hardware it's running on, i.e. "the AmigaOne" mentioned in the very subject of this thread.
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: Blomberg on January 27, 2003, 11:07:22 AM
This question of Darrens came out of a discussion we had on IRC regarding dual booting.
We were wondering whether or not the 'Early Startup Menu' (if present) could be used to select which device/partition to boot from as on the original Amiga. Simply to avoid the hassles of bootloaders, which are a pain in the arse IMO.
It's not about how it *looks*, whether it's a grey screen with Topaz or not, it is simply a question of being able to select the boot device (or partition) in an easy way, something which all computers should be able to do if you ask me.
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: EntilZha on January 27, 2003, 11:23:15 AM
Quote
Does the AmigaOne have the "early boot menu" and can it be used to boot different OS's (Or even varients of the same OS eg "flavours of Linux")???


The BIOS will allow you to choose the disk to boot from.

Additionally, the original early startup menu will still be there. This can be used to boot from different disks as well...

The bootting process on the A1 is actually a two-stage approach: The first stage is carried out by the bios and loads the OS4 kernel (which used to be in ROM). The second stage is the "normal" boot that is carried out be Amiga's DOS.

The first stage is always carried out when you turn on the machine. On subsequent boots, you can skip it (the kernel will stay in memory, then), or choose to "cold boot".

Dual booting can be carried out by both, although it's probably better to cold boot and use the BIOS to boot into non-OS4 systems (like, uh, Linux, and... Linux ;)

And before anyone asks, no, cold rebooting does not mean you have to turn your machine off and on again...
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: EntilZha on January 27, 2003, 11:27:12 AM
> Can you set both FSB frequency and multiplier? CPU and RAM voltages?

Jumpers only, I'm afraid.

However, some CPU's, like the 750 FX can change their multiplier on the fly, they have a fixed one that's straped via DIP switches, and a variable on that can be programmed by software.

> Or can PPCBoot handle this by itself?

It can handle it itself.
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: EntilZha on January 27, 2003, 11:32:50 AM
> And does someone (Rogue, EntilZha...) know how AOS and other OSes will be booted?

Incidentially, yes :)

First and foremost, PPCBoot has it's predefined way of booting images via any medium available, most notably through disk or netork. However, it's missing support for file systems.

Therefore, our modified version also has the ability to load an ambedded bootloader from a RDSK compatible disk. The OS4 Media Toolbox can create these bootloaders. That's the method we'll be using to boot OS4. Linux can be booted through this as well.
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: lempkee on January 27, 2003, 11:51:01 AM
wow, when Os4 is ready and when i have it+the 800XE well thats the day i stop to go outside (again?) i think,
while i am waiting i think i must buy enough of everything....FOOD,supplies,power,pay all my bills (so that the outside doesnt come to me:P)

if i wont write much reply's here for some days/weeks dont worry as i am just buying what i need :)

thomas, this looks dandy good! and i am SOOOOOOOOOOOOO looking forward to it. (os4)

Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: Ami603 on January 27, 2003, 12:00:52 PM
Someone on AmigaOS4 mailing list post a question about
Picasso96 V3 if it is possible to set screenmodes in
Portrait mode(768x1024 instead of 1024x768 for example)
because he wants to buy some TFT monitor that allow rotating 90 degrees.
Can be this done or are planned to do on 4.x versions of
picasso96?
 
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: Dagon on January 27, 2003, 12:14:28 PM
(http://mysite.freeserve.com/blobrana/images/bounce.gif) :-D I need a new
AMIGA!


How long will it take to boot to AmigaOS 4.0 from the time I press the power button? Very cool that it has`t got to pass from the bios everytime we reboot.
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: Ami603 on January 27, 2003, 12:17:51 PM
I also!!
:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D:-D
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: Herewegoagain on January 27, 2003, 12:40:45 PM
Quote
Someone on AmigaOS4 mailing list post a question about
Picasso96 V3 if it is possible to set screenmodes in
Portrait mode(768x1024 instead of 1024x768 for example)
because he wants to buy some TFT monitor that allow rotating 90 degrees.


Like this? (http://www.sceptre.com/Products/LCD/Specifications/spec_x9s_agama.htm)

They are nice.  We sell those where I work.  But they do need softare support to rotate the screen image once it is physically turned.  Would be nice if that was in P96.

Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: on January 27, 2003, 04:21:31 PM
Nice!  :-D
Title: Re: Does the AmigaOne have "early startup" menu and can it be used for &quo
Post by: on January 30, 2003, 12:55:11 PM
You guys should read the OS4.0 features properly. Espacially those, who write nonsense in this topic.
It says on page 15:
"USB stack
OS4 will include a USB stack to support peripherals using the USB standard for connectivity.
As the stack is part of the OS it can be available during boot, allowing the use of USB mice and
keyboards in the early startup menu."

To me this is clear enough.



@Dagon:
:-)))))  Mai pensato a pronunciare AmigaOne in questo modo.