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Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / General => Topic started by: KennyR on June 25, 2004, 02:59:27 AM
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Let's just collect them all in a square and burn them and march all around it singing songs about freedom, and laugh contemptously at their charred remains.
And why not? They're the bane of humanity with their stupid questions and those crappy little boxes where you need to put loads of writing and the large boxes that look so empty where you don't need to put much writing. And those bits that 'ask' you your ethnic origins so they can ensure 'equal opportunites' (i.e. hiring token ethnic people whether suitable or not so we can't call them racist). And those horrible nebulous "Statement in support of Application" bits that you never know what to put for, without proverbally lying one's ass off, but are the size of a friggin' page.
And the fact that you can fill in about 3 a week for years and never get a strike with any, no matter who you are and what you do, because most of the time the jobs are already allocated and the company is only advertising because they're legally obliged to do so.
Naive? I'm growing less naive and more sick with this rotten system by the day. Everyone knows connections, not forms, get you jobs anyway. So who needs 'em? Destroy! Free mankind!
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You're getting all agro over .... FORMS! :lol:
What's the alternative?
What's better than a simple little form to fill out?
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Naive? I'm growing less naive and more sick with this rotten system by the day. Everyone knows connections, not forms, get you jobs anyway. So who needs 'em? Destroy! Free mankind!
Then get some connections, and stop whining about application forms!
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iamaboringperson wrote:
You're getting all agro over .... FORMS! :lol:
A simple little form? I'ts not so simple when you have to fill in hundreds of these beasts every week all asking the same questions. Only to get one or two interviews in a year.
I have a printed CV (Resume)that has all the required information on it in a nice readable format. Why can't they standardise on that.
I got sick of this system a long time ago.
Over the years I have worked for four employers (Including my current one). Out of these four jobs three were gained through contacts rather than formal application.
Says a lot about the situation. :-o
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A simple little form? I'ts not so simple when you have to fill in hundreds of these beasts every week all asking the same questions. Only to get one or two interviews in a year.
But you don't have to fill in hundreds! Once you've filled out 2 or 3, and done a decent job, just keep your answers and repeat for future forms. All application forms ask the same questions, all with small variations on the same theme. Once you have your model answers just repeat. This is especially easy for online applications. And why not use the material on your CV? Copy out relevant parts and put it on the form!
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Apparently, you have more chance of getting a job by writing to a bunch of companies just on the off chance that they have a position available. Some companies don't bother advertising in jobcentres and papers - which costs a fair bit, they just wait for someone to do what I suggest. It shows you're enthusiastic, efficient and probably want the job (if there is one.) And if there isn't, the company might just keep hold of your details and get in-touch if something becomes available. If you try doing this, all you need to do is write a cover letter enquiring if the company has certain positions available, include why you would be good at the job and bung your CV in with that. It's worth a shot. It's worked for me in the past.
Anyway, good luck with the job hunting. Don't let those forms get you down too much.
-zudo
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You people should try agencies :-P
Employers like my application forms/CVs, and I have lots of interviews, but It the interviews where I screw up! :pissed: Maybe they just see my long hair, icy, penetrating eyes and pale skin, and think "Hmm, no"
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JonoPike wrote:
You people should try agencies :-P
Employers like my application forms/CVs, and I have lots of interviews, but It the interviews where I screw up! :pissed: Maybe they just see my long hair, icy, penetrating eyes and pale skin, and think "Hmm, no"
You do indeed look like a drug addict :lol: ;-)
btw. I NEVER had any difficulty with interviews, maybe that's because I'm too charming.
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Hoya!
...Or because you ply them with drinks and presents! ;-)
Be funky
M A D
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MAD wrote:
Hoya!
...Or because you ply them with drinks and presents! ;-)
Be funky
M A D
I think a heartwarming smile and a personal and friendly word is enough.
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Speelgoedmannetje,
a personal and friendly word
Do you make them an offer they can't refuse*?
-zudo
*zudobug does a very bad impression of Don Corleone in The Godfather
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Hoya!
I was just kidding :-)
Be funky
M A D
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Smithy wrote:
But you don't have to fill in hundreds!
Yes you do. Most are simply ignored and binned. It sort of reminds me of all eggs a frog needs to release to reproduce, knowing full well 999 out of 1000 tadpoles will get eaten... except that, if it's in a fish tank, the effort is wasted. Yep, seems a lot like that.
All application forms ask the same questions, all with small variations on the same theme.
No, they don't. Just like interviews, their context differs depending on the job and the text used in the question. You must adjust your bullsh!t flavour for the reader. And do it again and again and again and again and again...
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Over the years I have worked for four employers (Including my current one). Out of these four jobs three were gained through contacts rather than formal application.
before I started doing stuff with computers I had to call people and set up appointments for jobs.
(these were all art-related: props for plays/commercials. costumes for same, etc etc)
anyway, even tho i hate talking on the phone (you have NO idea!), i'd find a list of places and call one by one. whenever anyone said 'send a resume' (which is "job-speak" for 'we have no openings now'), i said, I don't send resumes. I go in and see people.
seriously, i was very firm.
if they couldn't see me it was because they really had no jobs and if they could see me, then my BEING there is what 90% of the time was what got me the job.
and it's not because i'm charming because, believe me - I HAVE NO charm. But i was determined and forceful and this is what convinced them. It can't hurt to be JUST slightly intimidating. it also helps if ya know what you are talking about and seem competant.
Of course, this was all in NY. Where a forceful personality is considered ok.
when I worked in LA - arg! they are such pussies over there, it's impossible for me to use my normal techniques. and I really have no others. working there is all a matter of luck.
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Hoya!
... Or getting laid to get the job...
Be funky
M A D
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As has been said on previous posts about this, I think half of the problem in this situation is your attitude Kenny - you need to stop believing that you are the centre of the universe and that everyone owes you a living.
You aren't, and they don't - you need to play the game and play it by their rules, they have the whip hand, and there are likely to be dozens of applicants for the positions you are applying for, and you need to appear to be the ideal person they want. Whether you feel it is lying on the application form or simply bending the rules, it doesn't matter and frankly the firms will expect you to {bleep} to a certain extent, but its the effect it creates that you actually took the time to think about your answers and can string a full sentence together that they are looking for, not that you are whiter than white when it comes to bending the truth.
Change the attitude, and I'm sure a job will follow relatively shortly afterwards, you are not thick you just need to change your attitude......
But I'm sure you won't listen to me or the others.....
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@Kennyr
Submit your cv to www.planetrecruit.com and this will be passed on to lots of agencies so you will get some interest at least. If you have already tried this then please ignore otherwise its worth a go.
Good luck!!
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AccyD wrote:
But I'm sure you won't listen to me or the others.....
It's only by listening to others that I actually still fill in any forms at all. I considered it worthless after the first six months of nothing. On other people's advice, lowering my aim after the first month, bending the rules after the third, lying totally after the sixth, changed matters not in the slightest. I still have no job, and I'm filling in so many forms that it seems like I have one. Except I don't get paid very much.
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@dezsignersrepublic
Thanks, but all the agencies now have me registered. I got phoned by one once. But once only.
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Let's start a record label. I'll be your talent scout. You like punk rock, right? Heh. ;-)
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Zudobug wrote:
Apparently, you have more chance of getting a job by writing to a bunch of companies just on the off chance that they have a position available.
We were told in uni NOT to do that. In fact, if you go to any website offering chemistry placements (Glaxo Smithkline for example), they explain clearly not to send CVs unless asked for. They would simply be ignored, or worse, the sender marked off as a nuisance and ignored even when a placement did open. Certainly there is not much chance of any employer keeping a CV in the offchance a job might need filling. They'd just be binned.
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JonoPike wrote:
You people should try agencies :-P
Most "Agencies" here are temp services, a bloodsucking abomination.
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T_Bone wrote:
JonoPike wrote:
You people should try agencies :-P
Most "Agencies" here are temp services, a bloodsucking abomination.
But surely some job is better than no job - especially for someone who has been unemployed for a reasonably long time??
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AccyD wrote:
But surely some job is better than no job - especially for someone who has been unemployed for a reasonably long time??
Taking a job below your level of experience or education is only postponing unemployment for a relatively short time anyway. And probably ruining your career path, as well.
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T_Bone wrote:
Most "Agencies" here are temp services, a bloodsucking abomination.
They're exactly like that here too. If there is someone here who has ever gotten a job from an agency, please speak up, 'cos I don't know any.
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I know one guy who's moving from a temporary position into permanent employment with the client company. So it does happen.
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KennyR wrote:
AccyD wrote:
But surely some job is better than no job - especially for someone who has been unemployed for a reasonably long time??
Taking a job below your level of experience or education is only postponing unemployment for a relatively short time anyway. And probably ruining your career path, as well.
On the contrary I would say that it would actually boost your chances of work as the potential employers will see that you are keen to work and have the ability to hold down a job for a decent length of time.
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KennyR wrote:
T_Bone wrote:
Most "Agencies" here are temp services, a bloodsucking abomination.
They're exactly like that here too. If there is someone here who has ever gotten a job from an agency, please speak up, 'cos I don't know any.
I'm sure it happens, but belonging to one of these evil organizations (like Manpower) is like a workers union in reverse. The corporations get to collectively bargain for you, instead of vice-versa. Anyways, who wants to work for an employer that won't risk investing in or even managing it's future employees?
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T_Bone wrote:
KennyR wrote:
T_Bone wrote:
Most "Agencies" here are temp services, a bloodsucking abomination.
They're exactly like that here too. If there is someone here who has ever gotten a job from an agency, please speak up, 'cos I don't know any.
I'm sure it happens, but belonging to one of these evil organizations (like Manpower) is like a workers union in reverse. The corporations get to collectively bargain for you, instead of vice-versa. Anyways, who wants to work for an employer that won't risk investing in or even managing it's future employees?
By the gods, NO!
Don't ever start working for Manpower. I made that mistake.
I worked there for six months as a forklift driver, but I almost worked with that. I lost my temper one day, and demanded that they game me some jobs that actually included forklift driving. The day after they sacked me, as there suddenly wasn't enough work for me. :roll:
A buddy of mine didn't receive all the money he had earned, so he sued them. Apparently, Manpower got a 200 000 SEK fine for that. Needless to say, he was also sacked a few days after! :lol:
Fortunately, both of us have proper jobs now. :-)