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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Hyperspeed on June 23, 2004, 01:07:12 AM
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I have my Quantum Fireball 2.1g prepped with Phase5 SCSIConfig v1.27
and formatted with FFS in Workbench.
However when I use the PD SCSI utility ProbeScsi v0.08 it tells me
that my drive has 7 known defects, 1 grown defect.
If my Amiga drive deterioates what program do I use to show me a
graphical image of the surface like with PC ScanDisk so that bad
blocks can be avoided by the OS?
If I run HDToolBox's Verify option would that be dangerous in
conjunction with an RDB formatted with SCSIConfig v1.27? Would the bad
blocks be automatically sorted or do I have to map them manually.
Also - what is the latest revision of HDToolBox that will work on
Workbench 3.0?
(Yeah, I know I need to upgrade ROM&OS but 3.1ROM gives you ages of
extra boot seek-time).
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DiskSalv from Dave Haynie. :P
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I use DiskSalv 2 (r11.32) 1991-1994 but it doesn't look like it can
spot a surface defect and tell the filesystem to avoid it.
Like if the platter had some material damaged on it, ScanDisk would
skip around it!
I'd like to get DiskSalv 4 though, where would I get this?
Also, does DiskSalv 4 actually DO the purification process? DiskSalv 2
sorta leaves the deleted files on the disk which can get messy when
you go to salvage something and all the old junk is there.
I wish it would do an MSDOS style Defrag too, ReOrg 3.11 (patched) is
horribly unreliable and has destroyed my files on many an occasion!
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> Also, does DiskSalv 4 actually DO the purification process?
I think so...
Once I tried with an about 2 Gig partition and it whirred constantly about 14 hours and then crashed, probably the HD overheated. That's it, I didn't try again.
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DiskSalv4's CleanUp should remove all deleted files yes. I love it's salvage capabilities... once I repartisioned and formatted a drive just to still be able to recover most files from the different partisions on it. ;)
For diskettes there are "BadFormat" but for harddrives I don't know... I seem to recall QuarterBack having something for this but I can't remember what or if it was just for backup purposes.
But IF a disk have errors it's time to can it... when an error first occure it seem to rappidly multiply over the disk. I once had just this problem and format would complain about one block... went into HDtoolbox and partisioned around this just to find more on previously working blocks... In a timespan of about 4hours I found more and more of this to I ended up with 15partisions on my 2Gb drive and gave up on it. :/
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:-?
I thought DiskDoctor wich comes standard with Workbench (at least, with my wb1.3 that is) would do kinda the same as scandisk.
man, checkdisk.. THAT is long ago :-)
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Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
:-?
I thought DiskDoctor wich comes standard with Workbench (at least, with my wb1.3 that is) would do kinda the same as scandisk.
man, checkdisk.. THAT is long ago :-)
Don't use diskdoctor, there is a reason the later Workbenches did not have it...diskdoctor is no good at all (unless you want to destroy your disks)!
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If I run HDToolBox's Verify option would that be dangerous in conjunction with an RDB formatted with SCSIConfig v1.27? Would the badblocks be automatically sorted or do I have to map them manually.
It is not a good idea to use two different programes like that, you risk data loss.
Does Workbench report errors on the drive?
SFS (Smart File System) is better to use than FFS, no more invalid hard drives!
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Hyperspeed wrote:
I wish it would do an MSDOS style Defrag too, ReOrg 3.11 (patched) is
horribly unreliable and has destroyed my files on many an occasion!
I know you're only joking, so I'll let you get away with that attempt of pure blasphemy.
Sincerely,
-Kenneth Straarup.
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Although, I haven't seen it mentioned here, which makes me kind of nervous, I use Quarterback Tools Deluxe. I have always had good luck with it. I have used DiskSalv as well, and that is a very good tool likewise.
- Mike
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I've heard about Quarterback Tools, I think I might have tried it once
but it must have wanted a registration fee or something that I
couldn't afford.
DiskSalv really is good stuff but my version says it's doing the
`purification' but doesn't actually clean the dead files away.
What I liked about ReOrg 3.11 was that it showed you a graphical
sector display which gave you a better idea of where on the disk
things went wrong or where fragmentation was occuring.
I think DiskSalv should have had a graphical display of each block
rather than a progress meter and a list whizzing down the page.
That's why I liked the MSDOS ScanDisk because it would show little
circles and squares and automatically map out surface trouble such as
bad blocks.
We could do with an all-in-one first aid kit for disks that would
encompass salvage, bad-block mapping, defragging and conversion. Like
Win '98 onwards has.
I don't use any file system other than Fast File System because
DiskSalv only works with FFS. How could you possibly live without
DiskSalv?
:-D :-D
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The ONLY programs worth using to analyze / repair / optimize AMIGA hard drives are either DiskSalv 4 (Dave Haynie) or Quarterback Tools Deluxe (don't recall the version numer ATM but it came out in late 1994).
NOTE - THESE PROGRAMS ONLY WORK WITH OS3.1 and earlier! They are not for use with OS3.9 (OS3.5?) due to the change in drive parameters and updated FFS (working with drives greater then 4GB). If you are using OS3.9, look for a similar program on Aminet, etc...
I have used both programs and they essentially do the same thing (although QBD also lets you back up your AMIGA). Which one is better is a matter of preference.
Regards,
ltstanfo
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I think I'll go against the grain and say that I never liked disksalv. I don't think it's very intuitive or actually very working.
Quarterback tools have always been my favorite. Helped me lots and lots and lots of times.
Sincerely,
-Kenneth Straarup.
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> Quarterback tools have always been my favorite. Helped me lots and lots and lots of times.
Which block sizes does it support?
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If it didn't work you didn't do it right cause for me it have worked everytime. But QB work too so it's a question of taste I belive... we all have our own favourites.
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man, checkdisk.. THAT is long ago
Windows XP still uses it. In fact, "chkdsk c: /f" is the ONLY way to fix a hard drive. The GUI version of chkdsk is useless as it skips over errors if it can't lock exclusive access to the drive (which is always the case with C:).
It is not a good idea to use two different programes like that, you risk data loss.
Yeah, I found out the hard way. I used a Win2K boot disk to repair an NT4 partition, and the next thing I knew, the NT4 version of chkdsk wouldn't work anymore since the drive had been "updated" with a newer version of NTFS. What a pain!
I blamed Microsoft at first, but then I realized that many OSes do the same damn thing.
OFS and FFS shouldn't have THAT problem, but touching the RDB could be an issue.
Does Workbench report errors on the drive?
Yeah, courtesy of the Neverending Requester. :-)
SFS (Smart File System) is better to use than FFS, no more invalid hard drives!
Anything is better than OFS/FFS.
I wish it would do an MSDOS style Defrag too, ReOrg 3.11 (patched) is horribly unreliable and has destroyed my files on many an occasion!
He's right. If ReOrg runs out of memory or caches too many files, it barfs and leaves you with an invalid hard drive. ALWAYS back up your drive, first. ReOrg is NOT the same calibre as defrag utils you get with Windows. Period.
A good filesystem doesn't get fragmented in the first place, which is why BeOS didn't have a defrag utility.
I have used DiskSalv as well, and that is a very good tool likewise.
I'd do a standard filecopy to any medium possible before running DiskSalv. For some reason, DiskSalv always locks up every time I try to scan my 85 Meg drive, and I'm worried it'll do more harm than good, since my drive is healthy as it is.
That's why I liked the MSDOS ScanDisk because it would show little circles and squares and automatically map out surface trouble such as bad blocks.
Scandisk was actually written by Symantec, which is why it rocked. I was very upset when I found newer versions of Windows went back to sucky old chkdsk.
I think I'll go against the grain and say that I never liked disksalv. I don't think it's very intuitive or actually very working.
I agree. I especially hated the fact that "Verify" and "Salvage" both wrote to the drive, making it a very destructive program (destructive, in the sense that it would risk losing data just from normal investigative operation).
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Just for reference chkdsk c: /R is the most thorough under WindowsNT/2K/XP. Having a check/repair program for OS4 and Morphos would be ... erm ... nice? :-?
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I think you mean command line equivilent?
Years ago I used 'DiskDoctor' Which was crap and often dangerous, however, it certainly helped me recover some lost files when I had a faulty disk drive about 10 years ago.
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I've only used diskdoctor and that was way way too many years ago....:-D What would some of your recommend to partitions over 4Gb today with FFS?
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> What would some of your recommend to partitions over 4Gb today with FFS?
There's just DiskMonTools, it's quite slow.
Fresh backups do rule...
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I have had DiskSalv actually mess up one of my partitions and rendered it crap really. The program itself said it was done repairing the partitions, but after the next boot, it was invalid.. :-?
So basically since then, I never touched that program again.
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If ReOrg runs out of memory or caches too many files, it barfs and leaves you with an invalid hard drive. ALWAYS back up your drive, first. ReOrg is NOT the same calibre as defrag utils you get with Windows. Period.
For the record, I have never, ever had such a problem with ReOrg. It's always worked great. Though, I don't use it any more since I have a very large and fast HD now.
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Windows-related alert!
Waccoon wrote:
man, checkdisk.. THAT is long ago
Windows XP still uses it. In fact, "chkdsk c: /f"
Err. chkdsk for NTx is very very different from the old DOS checkdisk/scandisk. What you've said is like saying "WinXP still uses MS-DOS because you can type 'DIR' at a command prompt and it works".
And that's without going into NTFS vs. FATxx, the fact that NTx uses a different kernel to Win9x/DOS, etc etc...
Also, there are two ways of checking disks in WinNTx (as in, NT4,Win2k,XP and later):
* Get a command prompt up, type chkdsk driveletter: /r
* Go into My Computer, pick a disk, Properties, Tools, Check Now, tick what options you want. Ticking both does the equivalent of a chkdsk /r.
chkdsk /r does a complete check of the disk. /f is more of a filesystem check rather than filesystem + bad sector check.
For more useful information, you can do:
chkdsk C: /v /r
Which gives more verbose output as to what is going on.
I normally go for the command line version because it gives more useful information. Also, chances are that Windows will ask you to restart the computer so it can do it in a more isolated/single-user'y mode. It logs what it has done in the event log > App Log, under source 'Winlogon'.
If you want to do a quick, useful disk check and stay in Windows: chkdsk driveletter: . It'll tell you if it needs you to do a full disk check. It's kind of a light, read-only, filesystem-only chkdsk.
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Hi
If I remember right, you should throw away your SCSI or IDE drive if you find bad sectors after low-level formating. The drive itself is intelligent and hides defects to the "user", so if you find any defect, your drive is trash at all.
I use Amigas with SCSI-drives since 13 years and have never had any problems with bad blocks. The 120MB drive that was initially build into my A3000T dies once ago, but it has got problems to read/write at all, not only specific blocks.
To salvage accidentically deleted files I use Disksalv and it works great for this purpose. Recovering data from a bad disk is luck anyway.
And I still use FFS for my harddisks. It works reliable and the speed is no problem, I use a software-cache (FastCache 1.1 from Philip D'Ath, somehow simular to Smartdrive known for MS products, can be found in Aminet) with a dynamic cachesize upto 16MB and my harddrive is nearly as fast as the ram-disk :-).
Once I tried SFS and getting into troubles, getting error-messages about bad data, where I've never got failures like that using FFS (using FFS on the same drive before and after testing SFS and never got any failure).
> Yeah, I know I need to upgrade ROM&OS but 3.1ROM gives you ages of extra boot seek-time
??? After I had upgraded to OS 3.1 my systems boot-time was faster by ages than before? Very annoying was the boot-time of a coldstart after upgrading to OS 3.9 because of the extra-reboot after patching the Kickstart, but this problem is solved by the KickflashOS4 :-D
Noster
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Noster wrote:
If I remember right, you should throw away your SCSI or IDE drive if you find bad sectors after low-level formating. The drive itself is intelligent and hides defects to the "user", so if you find any defect, your drive is trash at all.
IIRC modern harddrives don't actually 'do' a lowlevel format. Or something, not that I have any idea what a lowlevel format actually is :crazy:.
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From what I understand, most modern hard drives will intercept an attempt to low-level format them, but it is not wise to try them, as low-level formatting generally does bad things to modern hard disks.
IIRC, a low-level format consists of writing zeroes over everything on the hard disk, but also includes resetting drive geometry settings.
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Yeah lowlevel usually means zero fill format, true low level format is only done in factories iirc.
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We used to use DiskDoctor then DiskSalv for RDB drives