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Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / Science and Technology => Topic started by: on June 18, 2004, 09:45:06 AM
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3811785.stm
Woah, this is rather big news :-D
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Before people start jumping up and down hoping that we'll soon be able to tell someone to 'beam them up, and don't forget the clothes this time', there's two things you need to consider:
1. Most importantly, it was 'beaming' of the state of an atom, not of the atom itself. This isn't moving matter from place A to place B, but transferring a property of matter from place A to place B---which already has the same matter available. Two very different things.
2. It has succeeded with one atom, which is indeed an important step. But our bodies contain about 4 kmol atoms, that is, 24 * 10^27 of the buggers. Even storing the quantum state of one fingertip is completely beyond us.
In other words: great science, but don't expect to be able to beam yourself from place to place in before you die.
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Hum,
Before people start jumping up and down
I think the technical name is Jaunting (http://24.195.37.133/epub/tp/images/tp9.jpg)
:-)
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obviously, this tecnhology is still in its embryonic stages, but it could get to the foetus stage soon. Remember that scientific and technological advancement seems to follow an exponential curve quite a bit of the time.
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I'm sure Microsoft will have a Release Candidate out soon! :-P
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blobrana wrote:
Hum,
Before people start jumping up and down
I think the technical name is Jaunting (http://24.195.37.133/epub/tp/images/tp9.jpg)
:-)
:roflmao:
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Cymric wrote:
In other words: great science, but don't expect to be able to beam yourself from place to place in before you die.
The report struck me as being a step towards something more akin to the "affinity" technology used in Peter F. Hamiltons various stories rather than a teleportation system. For those unfamiliar to his novels, "affinity" is a form of telepathy based on specially designed neural cells that are cloned and contain a signalling mechanism based on quantum entanglement - each cell in pair of cloned neurons is aware of the state of of the other via the phenomenon.
[or something like that ;-)]
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mikeymike wrote:
I'm sure Microsoft will have a Release Candidate out soon!
And who in their right mind would trust their body to a Microsoft powered teleporter ?
Imagine how many viruses you`d have when you got reassembled !
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Doobrey wrote:
mikeymike wrote:
I'm sure Microsoft will have a Release Candidate out soon!
And who in their right mind would trust their body to a Microsoft powered teleporter ?
Imagine how many viruses you`d have when you got reassembled !
:lol:
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:lol:
Also, once a month you'd have to go through a defrag teleportation to correctly put your most used extremities back in place :-D
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Cymric wrote:
1. Most importantly, it was 'beaming' of the state of an atom, not of the atom itself. This isn't moving matter from place A to place B, but transferring a property of matter from place A to place B---which already has the same matter available. Two very different things.
I'm not saying that this experiment brings us any closer to Star Trek style teleportation - I don't know enough to comment - but teleportation *is* most commonly used to mean not transferring the actual atoms, but instead transferring the information and rebuilding elsewhere where the matter is already available. So the way you describe them, they are the same sort of thing.
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The important part here is not that you can transmit information, but that you can transmit it instantaneously - faster than light. Theoretically you could communicate to somewhere in the Andromeda galaxy this way, in an instant.
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KennyR wrote:
The important part here is not that you can transmit information, but that you can transmit it instantaneously - faster than light. Theoretically you could communicate to somewhere in the Andromeda galaxy this way, in an instant.
Which means we've broken the "information faster than the speed of light" barrier.
I'd like to see them set up an actual transmitter/reciever based on this stuff, just so they can repeat "Come here watson, I want you."
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A couple of things have been floating in my head after hearing about this..
1. What happens to the original atom?
If this experiment could be scaled up to scan an living thing,would the original still be OK, or would it have been affected/altered by the scanning?
2. As well as its potential use as a teleport, couldn`t it be used as a duplicator?
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I think the whole 'matter cannot be made or destroyed' principle gets rid of the idea that you can simply make something blink out of existence then back in again. It has to go somewhere and back again.
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Yep, I knew the whole matter conservation thingy.
What I meant was if the orignal atom was changed in anyway by the experiment.
If for example, you could scan a nice fluffy bunny wabbit and create a replica at the other end(out of matter found there), would the original end up looking like one of the failured experiments from "The Fly", or would it still be hopping around oblivious to what just happened?
And then there`s the silly questions that pop into my mind late at night...
If cloning/duplication by this method worked, I could make a clone of myself.
What would happen if I shot my clone?
Would I be convicted for murder or for commiting suicide ?
Since the original me is still alive, would it be a crime at all ?
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sry mikeymike,
Got to pull you up there...
In fact matter can be created from `nothing`, er as in virtual particles (which are as real a `normal` particles), but the trick is to do it in as small amount of time possible...
The electricity in all the wires that have ever `flowed`, for example, were/are all virtual particles. (Each electron, is created and destroyed to form the illusion that a particle is moving along the wire.)
[I won’t go into the details of how black holes radiated energy with the creation/use of virtual particles here...]
[Er, nor quantum tunneling]
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KennyR wrote:
The important part here is not that you can transmit information, but that you can transmit it instantaneously - faster than light. Theoretically you could communicate to somewhere in the Andromeda galaxy this way, in an instant.
that means we can have the Universe Wide Web (UWW) someday. and being able to get porn on Pluto or Alpha Centauri is quite a great achievment! (seriously).
personally, i can't wait! :lol:
Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose
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Doobrey wrote:
2. As well as its potential use as a teleport, couldn`t it be used as a duplicator?
the state of an atom can be transferred, but putting it on its on place in a three dimensional axis is kinda hard I think
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Hum, it's just like the carpet (space-time) instantaneously reaches all the wall of a room; but things on the carpet have to travel no faster than light speed...
Unfortunately information is lost, due to Heisenberg uncertainty principle, and the Special Theory
Of Relativity...
So porn may be sent but you can`t know if it arrived unscrambled, or if it arrived at all, faster than light speed.
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Speelgoedmannetje wrote:
Doobrey wrote:
2. As well as its potential use as a teleport, couldn`t it be used as a duplicator?
the state of an atom can be transferred, but putting it on its on place in a three dimensional axis is kinda hard I think
It would provide a great foundation for light-year-"resistant" walkie talkies (that year of lag really dampens the conversation). I doubt anything beyond communication will come of it though
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Blobrana wrote:
Hum, it's just like the carpet (space-time) instantaneously reaches all the wall of a room; but things on the carpet have to travel no faster than light speed...
No, it really is instantaneous. It works by quantum pairing entanglements, so called EPR. So the Andromedans can get Debbie Does Dallas this aeon after all.
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T_Bone wrote:
that year of lag really dampens the conversation.
Not really, it`ll be just like trying to phone my ISP`s helpline..
"Hello and welcome to CheapCo, calls cost 50p per minute,calls could last as long as 37 years".
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KennyR wrote:
Blobrana wrote:
Hum, it's just like the carpet (space-time) instantaneously reaches all the wall of a room; but things on the carpet have to travel no faster than light speed...
No, it really is instantaneous. It works by quantum pairing entanglements, so called EPR. So the Andromedans can get Debbie Does Dallas this aeon after all.
I don't think so - I'm sure I've read that quantum teleportation doesn't allow information to be transmitted faster than light (eg, see http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/FTL.html#9 ). And besides, this would violate special relativity, I haven't heard anyone claim that this has happened as a result of these experiments.
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mikeymike wrote:
I think the whole 'matter cannot be made or destroyed' principle gets rid of the idea that you can simply make something blink out of existence then back in again. It has to go somewhere and back again.
You mean "energy cannot be created or destroyed". Matter is a form of energy, and it can certainly be created to and from other forms of energy.
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If teleportation is supposed to happen, then how come we haven't had anyone from the "future" visit us?! :-D
Regards,
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Because humanity will kill itself off withing ten years...
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Hum,
I think your scrambling in too much of the temporal aspect to the phenomena of quantum entanglement/tunnelling...
It is true, if you travel faster than light the arrow of time does point backwards, but the particles that get teleported aren’t actually moving… (They’re in both places at the same time, sort of thing)
Random word for today:
Cherenkov radiation
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Thought for the day. If c represents an asymptote in the relativistic equations for time, mass, length in the direction travelled etc, assuming a particle on the brink of crossing that asymptote could pass it, the first effect of time's arrow reversing would be that it would immediately jump back the the point in time just before it crossed it....
Or something bizzare. Assuming you can get past the weirdo effects of the undefined (tends towards infinite) mass etc before you crossed that asymptote.
There's nothing random about cherenkov radiation. It's cool :-) What I can only describe as an "optical boom" :-D
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Everything starts from somewhere.
This is just the begining of something bigger.
Give it time, maybe the sort of time that will be in about 150/200 years that we will be using this sort of tek.
Why is it, that these Sci-Fi series have a lot in them that actualy are in use today.
Dandare the vidoephone, we have mobile phones that do video now.
Startrek with there communicators in the first Startrek.
Do mobile phones now come close to this?
Its exciting to say ther least. I would say that in about 150/200 years there will be a lot of this going on teleportation mode.
But it will take a brave human to do the first ever teleport ation.
Would you do it for the first ever time after being told its all failsafe and you wont come to any harm?
Not me thanks, I will be a bit worried in case my arm comes out of my ass, and one of my eyes will be sticking out of me ear.
:lol: :lol:
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"...Would you do it for the first ever time after being told its all failsafe and you wont come to any harm?..."
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I have a feeling the first 'testers' of the teleporters will be wearing Burberry baseball caps.
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X-ray wrote:
"...Would you do it for the first ever time after being told its all failsafe and you wont come to any harm?..."
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I have a feeling the first 'testers' of the teleporters will be wearing Burberry baseball caps.
Perhaps they will be used to help recalibrate faulty transporters. They can't come out any more messed up than they went in :lol:
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:lol:
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Karlos Kommented:
Thought for the day. If c represents an asymptote in the relativistic equations for time, mass, length in the direction travelled etc, assuming a particle on the brink of crossing that asymptote could pass it, the first effect of time's arrow reversing would be that it would immediately jump back the the point in time just before it crossed it....
Or something bizzare. Assuming you can get past the weirdo effects of the undefined (tends towards infinite) mass etc before you crossed that asymptote.
There's nothing random about cherenkov radiation. It's cool :-) What I can only describe as an "optical boom" :-D
Picture the following:
:-) A happy wandering little particle of normal matter is traveling north. After a while, ahead and a bit to the left, a matter/anitmatter pair of virtual particles pop into "real" existnce. Conservation of momemtun dictates that they spring into existance traveling in opposite directions to each other. As it happens, the anti-matter particle is the one traveling east, towards our earlier happy wandering particle.
Normally, the mutal attraction of such a pair of virtual particles would overcome the momentum their initial velocity, and they'd recollide, popping back out of "real" existance. However, today it not our hero's day. Because this pair of virtual interlopers popped into existance too close to our happy wanderer, the anti-matter one collides with the traveler instead.
They vanish in a burst of energy, leaving the newly formed matter particle to wander off on its own, all alone.
;-) Now ponder that perhaps what we've seen is just one particle. As it traveled, it made a turn to the east, and with the release of tremendous energy, it reversed its direction in time.
:-( Now travelling backwards in time, but still to the east, it appears to forward-time oriented people as anti-matter.
:-) After a few moments of this, it reverses direction in time agian, now traveling forward in time as the second matter particle, the one which seemed to appear out of nothing to our point of view....
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Maybe they're talking, and we're not listening?
Does this mean, we could "remote view" and "remote listen" to what's happening on the surface of the other planets in our solar system? Beats sending a spacecraft on 9 month through to 12 year voyages, huh?
How about "see" the interior of the planet? I'm talking about down through to the core.
Or even into the sun?
How much energy would it take to send a message, say 4 light years, vs. 1 billion light years away?
Could you take energy from elsewhere, through this process?
Or transfer energy to a place, through this process?
No wires, no batteries required.
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Hum,
< gods play dice>
The information is scrambled (it’s a fundamental aspect to transfer of information faster than light – but I suppose that the information is still there….)
< /gods play dice>
Yes you can transfer energy (or information), as Hawking recently demonstrated...
`Hawking radiation` from a black hole is really entangled particles (one falls in the other escapes – thus the black hole evaporates)