Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: Naeem on June 17, 2004, 12:29:42 PM
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Hi there,
When will we be able to buy A1/OS4.0?
Will OS4.0 support the SharkPPC cards, any timelines?
Will there be a pegasos port of OS4.0? (Pegasos website thinks so!)
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Yes.
Possibly.
No.
:-)
To add to the first answer, if we knew, there would be news articles all over the place about it.
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:-)
I like your style Moderator dude.
Just a point, possibly should be directed at Hyperion (they the OS writers, right?), all this hype surrounding the A1/OS4.0 release, coupled with the uncertainty of when, where, and what, people are rekindling their passion for the Amiga and then bogging off and buying a pegasos cos thats out there and established, and does what they want it to do. They are more interested in Amiga how it is / was rather than the new A1 platform (I guess is what I'm trying to say :-) )
In a way the official amiga is becoming the nectar for a Pegasos Venus Flytrap. Ahem.
If I was in OS4.0 marketing I would put out an official (heavily optimistic) release date out there from the off and have boards going out with the pre-rel. Just to cash in on my own hype.
Incidentally where can I buy a board from? I would like a PPC linux box anyways.
[cant seem to find a website that actually has any, though they all are advertising them]
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Naeem wrote:
:-)
I like your style Moderator dude.
Just a point, possibly should be directed at Hyperion (they the OS writers, right?), all this hype surrounding the A1/OS4.0 release, coupled with the uncertainty of when, where, and what, people are rekindling their passion for the Amiga and then bogging off and buying a pegasos cos thats out there and established, and does what they want it to do. They are more interested in Amiga how it is / was rather than the new A1 platform (I guess is what I'm trying to say :-) )
In a way the official amiga is becoming the nectar for a Pegasos Venus Flytrap. Ahem.
What do you suggest Hyperion should be doing instead? Suggest 'port OS4 to Pegasos' and you will get a slap! :-)
If I was in OS4.0 marketing I would put out an official (heavily optimistic) release date out there from the off and have boards going out with the pre-rel. Just to cash in on my own hype.
That's a tad unscrupulous, and it was precisely what Amiga Inc did, and Hyperion's reputation took a hit because of it.
Incidentally where can I buy a board from? I would like a PPC linux box anyways.
There are AFAIK several suppliers of AmigaOne/boards worldwide. www.eyetech.co.uk is the centre one, they're based in the UK.
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Flamebait :-)
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Excuse my ignorance, but why is a port of OS4 to Pegasos necessary anyway? The problem, as I see it, is potential incompatability with OS4 with future apps, not OS4 itself. Morphos currently looks like a better environment than OS4 does. As long as it can run the same apps, who cares?
The Morphos team went to all the trouble to reverse engineer the 68k AmigaOS, can't they do the same with OS4? Isn't all the information required, ie the API etc, all available as part of the OS4 SDK. Theoretically they could begin now that the pre-release is out. With a bit of effort Morphos could be more OS4 compatabile than OS4. :-o
I admit, I could have this entirely wrong. So I'll shut up now. :-?
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The Morphos team went to all the trouble to reverse engineer the 68k AmigaOS, can't they do the same with OS4?
Potential legal conflict. I'm not a lawyer, I don't know. Let's not have a load of responses where people pretend they are lawyers, please.
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Isn't all the information required, ie the API etc, all available as part of the OS4 SDK. Theoretically they could begin now that the pre-release is out. With a bit of effort Morphos could be more OS4 compatabile than OS4.
OS4 SDK is available for A1 users only. But it doesnt matter because technically OS4 and MOS are very different.
Maybe if the software is not doing any OS calls you could run OS4 binary in MOS and vice versa :-)
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When will we be able to buy A1/OS4.0?
I guess now. AFAIK the new boards are sold with the same prerelease CD.
Will OS4.0 support the SharkPPC cards, any timelines?
I can start to estimate this as soon as I get a SharkPPC. Before that it's a moot point.
Will there be a pegasos port of OS4.0? (Pegasos website thinks so!)
I don't think this is about "think so" or "not think so". If someone licenses AmigaOS for Pegasos, there is a definite possibility.
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They are more interested in Amiga how it is / was rather than the new A1 platform (I guess is what I'm trying to say )
Why do you think so?
If I was in OS4.0 marketing I would put out an official (heavily optimistic) release date out there from the off and have boards going out with the pre-rel. Just to cash in on my own hype.
That's what happened in the past, and we won't make that same mistake again. The current release date is set to "when it's done", and that describes it pretty accurate.
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Morphos currently looks like a better environment than OS4 does.
Based on what assumption? Did you see both and compare?
Isn't all the information required, ie the API etc, all available as part of the OS4 SDK. Theoretically they could begin now that the pre-release is out. With a bit of effort Morphos could be more OS4 compatabile than OS4
Apart from that being a rather stupid comment ("more OS4 compatible than OS4"), it's legally impossible because the SDK material is copyright protected.
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With a bit of effort Morphos could be more OS4 compatabile than OS4
Apart from that being a rather stupid comment
Please guys, let's keep this civil.
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Hook, line and sinker once again it seems....
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Please guys, let's keep this civil.
I don't consider "more OS4 compatible than OS 4" and a call to reverse-engineer out work civil to start with.
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Rogue wrote:
Please guys, let's keep this civil.
I don't consider "more OS4 compatible than OS 4" and a call to reverse-engineer out work civil to start with.
I don't know if anyone remembers me, but I used to be a regular on these boards...just popping in for a visit.
I see nothings changed.
well, until next time.
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Very passionate.
I did check eyetech before I asked where to purchase the A1. I would have to get it from a dealer to keep all the middlemen fat :-)
But anyways the only dealer registered on the site from the UK is http://www.amiga-centre.co.uk/. I have sent them a couple of emails these last two weeks with no news. The website is more of a holding page than anything else.
From what I can gather from this useful interchange A1 / OS4.0 prerel is already out there somewhere [thanks Technoid] - I need one - where / how?
Technoid, dont you notice the wealth of comments on here by people who came to the idea of going wholly PPC thanks to the OS4.0 push and then over the course of their chat here conclude they are off to buy a Pegasos?
Good call on the OS4.0 licencing comment. Though Pegasos is explicitly saying that work is underway to bring the Amiga OS on to their platform. That work might be to pay lots of Pegasos Beta-testers / empathisers to flood this site with pro-pegasos propaganda :-) Personally I think Amiga OS should relax a little on the licencing stance, there has got to be room to negotiate.
By the way I'm new here but was born an Amigan.
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Regarding OS4 and the Pegasos, if it happens, it happens.
Opinions of people who aren't employed at the companies are purely conjecture, or are basing their opinions on second/third-hand information (which may or may not be true at all) after a game of biased Chinese whispers, it's all a bit pointless really.
As for people who come in to take pot-shots of "nothing's changed", yeah, whatever. There can only be one reason why you'd bother saying it, and that is to troll. I'd prefer it if you didn't bother. If such people continue these little games, I will moderate their posts.
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Mike,
seems like a fair stance, but let me try and explain his opinion in a somewhat less troll-like fashion.
To you, me and the 100s of other people still passionately following the Amiga and assosciated news sites, many more things are obvious because of intimate knowledge.
To someone returning to their 'old haunts' after years of absence, it's a mess! To qualify that, I'm going to point fingers at everybody ;-)
In the absence of clear direction and leadership, the baton has been taken up by the remaining user community (the developers of both 'Amiga like' alternatives do so because of the legacy of their time with the OS and the challenge of pushing it forward...surely not for large amounts of cash.)
Because of this, the companies in charge are lazy (some more so than others) and are following the trend - letting the users market their products for them. A degree of this exists with all products but the balance is shifted too far in the 'Amiga like' 'markets'
It's unacceptable (in my opinion) for Hyperion to say "When it's done..." *unless* we are in 'under the radar' mode until OS4 is ready for true commercial release?
What is the damned target market?
If it's current user base then all the sales that are going to happen probably already did beyond a few of the 'wait and see' merchants. (In fact a lot of sales were lost due to missed deadlines and scarce availability of hardware!)
If it's the ex-user base then companies better get off their backsides and start updating websites, providing real and up to date information on the product and stop relying on (polluted) user forums to do the work.
I don't consider 'new users' a viable alternative because neither MorphOS nor OS4 is viable at this point in time nor is the hardware cost acceptable at an entry point level when considering price:features/function ratio.
Over and out...
Steve
PS Credit to Michael Salcedo of the SACC user group for setting me up for this rant ;-)
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@ JKD
Points well-made. I agree with one or two of them :-)
I think that Hyperion are probably using the best strategy they can. A combination of a new product for a limited audience, the product needs to be tested by that limited audience for the product's sake as well as for business reasons. There is little point in doing a massive advertising campaign to target non-Amiga users because other than the OS what else is there to offer currently.
I think the takeup that Hyperion is expecting, eg. limited but steady increase, is realistic with the right amount of optimism. Bear in mind optimism has been a requirement from the start of the OS4 project, given the Amiga's history.
I think once OS4 is released, Eyetech/Hyperion should get it out to techie media reviewers, pushing it from a "this is the new start for Amiga, the first milestone" perspective. Trying to compare the viability of OS4 to other more established operating systems wouldn't go well for OS4, but to say "a better version of this, plus some decent supporting software, is what we want to be showing you in a few years' time", would be a good plan.
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@Naeem
Sven Harvey is now the UK dealer for AmigaOnes.
Drop him an email or visit his website
www.stellardreams.co.uk
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JKD wrote:
Mike,
seems like a fair stance, but let me try and explain his opinion in a somewhat less troll-like fashion.
To you, me and the 100s of other people still passionately following the Amiga and assosciated news sites, many more things are obvious because of intimate knowledge.
To someone returning to their 'old haunts' after years of absence, it's a mess! To qualify that, I'm going to point fingers at everybody ;-)
In the absence of clear direction and leadership, the baton has been taken up by the remaining user community (the developers of both 'Amiga like' alternatives do so because of the legacy of their time with the OS and the challenge of pushing it forward...surely not for large amounts of cash.)
Because of this, the companies in charge are lazy (some more so than others) and are following the trend - letting the users market their products for them. A degree of this exists with all products but the balance is shifted too far in the 'Amiga like' 'markets'
It's unacceptable (in my opinion) for Hyperion to say "When it's done..." *unless* we are in 'under the radar' mode until OS4 is ready for true commercial release?
What is the damned target market?
If it's current user base then all the sales that are going to happen probably already did beyond a few of the 'wait and see' merchants. (In fact a lot of sales were lost due to missed deadlines and scarce availability of hardware!)
If it's the ex-user base then companies better get off their backsides and start updating websites, providing real and up to date information on the product and stop relying on (polluted) user forums to do the work.
I don't consider 'new users' a viable alternative because neither MorphOS nor OS4 is viable at this point in time nor is the hardware cost acceptable at an entry point level when considering price:features/function ratio.
Over and out...
Steve
PS Credit to Michael Salcedo of the SACC user group for setting me up for this rant ;-)
Well said!
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mikeymike wrote:
As for people who come in to take pot-shots of "nothing's changed", yeah, whatever. There can only be one reason why you'd bother saying it, and that is to troll. I'd prefer it if you didn't bother. If such people continue these little games, I will moderate their posts.
My nickname is MarkTime and my real name is Robert Dupuy. Who is this 'People who say 'nothing's changed'??
I hope that's not passive aggressive behavior, that would be a bad sign in a moderator. Another bad sign, is when someone thinks they can read minds, by giving motivations to posts. It's best to moderate based on what's actually said, not what you think someone is thinking...since reading minds is a fallacy. Another piece of good advice is to be professional, not shrill with remarks like 'little games'...which just demeans yourself.
It is clear that you remember me, but a lot of people don't...I've been gone for a long time, and to a new observer, your response is way out of wack ,compared to my innocent observation.
My remark was actually motivated by the observation that nothing has changed. Having left and come back...it is clearer having this perspective, and not being part of the day-to-day anymore, that amigans really do bicker too much...I don't hang out here much anymore, as you can tell, I don't think I've posted in months...and that isn't really going to change either.
Feel free to moderate these posts. You couldn't pick a better person to moderate, I won't complain, and likely not to notice. (its really more of a problem for your regulars, who have to copy and paste the post and e-mail it to each other later...so much easier if its just still there you know?)
*edited* cause I don't have time for the usual back and forth....sorry, I know thats selfish, but I probably won't check for the response...I am too busy these days....love a good troll though ;-)
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$ nslookup www.stellardreams.co.uk
Name: www.stellardreams.co.uk
Address: 212.67.202.241
$ nslookup www.amiga-centre.co.uk
Name: www.amiga-centre.co.uk
Address: 212.67.202.241
Oh dear. Do you know if Sven is on hols or anything?