Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: weirdami on June 02, 2004, 08:28:25 AM
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I started using Mozilla Firefox on a Pentium (one) windows box with 48 megs RAM and <2GB total HD space (about 150 MB left on each of the two HD's). I've gone and reduced the colors to 256 in hopes of gaining some system resources and the monitor is 640x480 only. Firefox takes like 30 seconds to load, which is bad, but my post is inspired by a good thing thats kinda bad.
I recently updated a webpage and I made a mistake. I did </b? instead of
Firefox does take forever to load, but so does everything else on the computer, so really, I bet it loads much faster on the new fancy super GHz machines. IE loads fast, though, but it has the added, cheating advantage of being already technically loaded when you boot windows. I guess I'll go with IE :-(, but only because I'm tired of waiting forever for things to load.... and maybe because I want a stupidprogram so my mistakes can be seen easier. :-D
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Er - why aren't you using Opera? There are loads of browsers better than IE, especially for an old Pentium.... and Opera is the best browser I've used on any platform, ever (using it right now).
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Did you read the system requirements of Firefox before installing it?
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why aren't you using Opera?
You mean why aren’t you using an oversized bag of human feces?
... actually make that a bag with advertisements on the side.
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weirdami wrote:
....
and maybe because I want a stupidprogram so my mistakes can be seen easier. :-D
From my experience IE sees through a lot of mistakes aswell, there are lot of pages that constis of illegal html that explorer handles... (and since all of the browser have to be compliant with the market leader, so does firefox and opera). That suxx. In previous versions Opera did not allow the most stupid things in "opera-mode", however from what I have heard, it does nowadays :-(
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I recently updated a webpage and I made a mistake.
Yep... We all make 'em at sometime or another. Regardless of how many pages we've generated over the years. As well as testing with the major browsers, I run the validator at w3c. It's probably the best way to catch little errors (like unbalanced tags) and ensure that the page looks semi-reasonable to whatever browser may find it. Only thing is, you have to make sure you have the right "DOCTYPE" header for your page, or else your whole page will be marked as an error. :lol:
W3C Validator link (http://validator.w3.org/)
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I've been using firefox exclusively for about a year now. It's awesome. It's the fastest most stable browser I've ever used (yes, I've used opera). The GUI is a good mix between IE and Opera, and it renders faster than both. The pop-up blocker rules, and I can't get exploited through a web page (thanks for nothing M$). I haven't seen a pop-up in a year with FireFox. Also, CTRL-T becomes your best friend.
For testing web pages I usually use opera. It tends to break pretty easily because it doesn't make any assumptions about bad html coding.
-tom
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weirdami wrote:
I started using Mozilla Firefox on a Pentium (one) windows box with 48 megs RAM and <2GB total HD space (about 150 MB left on each of the two HD's). I've gone and reduced the colors to 256 in hopes of gaining some system resources and the monitor is 640x480 only. Firefox takes like 30 seconds to load, which is bad, but my post is inspired by a good thing thats kinda bad.
Only 30 seconds? *Memories of trying to run Mozilla 0.9 on a DX4-100.*
I'd not be so sure that 256 color setting is saving you anything. It means 1. a dithering routine has to run somewhere, and 2. PC memory isn't unified like that... I really doubt however Moz/FireFox use libjpeg, for instance, gives any thought to the output requirements, throwing away insignificant bits, etc, though I could always be wrong.
...
Firefox does take forever to load, but so does everything else on the computer, so really, I bet it loads much faster on the new fancy super GHz machines. IE loads fast, though, but it has the added, cheating advantage of being already technically loaded when you boot windows. I guess I'll go with IE :-(, but only because I'm tired of waiting forever for things to load.... and maybe because I want a stupidprogram so my mistakes can be seen easier. :-D
If you want something *really* lightweight to keep around, "Links" is pretty okay. Goofy interface, but it's standards compliant, and I occasionally use it for some pages with Javascript bugs in my old version of Moz! (I *thiiink* the graphical build of Links is available for Win32, anyway.) Dillo's also in the "1MB" browser category, but that might be *NIX-only. ... And Opera, for all the whining, is reasonable, but the problem is that it's roughly the heft of "old Netscape," and even "old Netscape" would crawl on vintage hardware. (My opinion is, for the most part, anything that Opera won't fall down on will also render in something as 'lightweight' as Links if you can live without Flash, so...)
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lorddef wrote:
why aren't you using Opera?
You mean why aren?t you using an oversized bag of human feces?
... actually make that a bag with advertisements on the side.
there is absolutely NO reason for anyone to use IE - which is the only real bag of feces.
I never notice these ads which seem to interupt your life and i've been using Opera for the last year and a half. Opera with Zonealarm on board means I have NEVER gotten a virus/trojan or other problem.
I also use Opera to test all my web pages that I know create in linux (Quanta Pro). But I test my pages in my amiga browsers as well. All the years I have been writting pages I have always tested in as many browsers as I can.
these days I never use IE, not even offline.
it's sloppy and uses illegal code, so what's the point?
I'd rather know my pages are legal. eventually, IE will be gone.
and no one will miss it.
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there is absolutely NO reason for anyone to use IE - which is the only real bag of feces.
some sites only work properly with ie . :-?
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amigamad wrote:
some sites only work properly with ie . :-?
That's not an excuse with Opera 7.23.
We always used to run into a few sites that made Opera complain, but since getting 7.23 there has been absolutely no problems at all.
Much to our surprise it handles Uni's CSA forms nicely :-D
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I'm fairly sure the only time I come across a site that is either IE only (or virtually so, totally borked in Firefox/other) is when someone posts on mozillazine about it :-)
Like for example recently a website, englishtown.com, blocks everything but IE on win32 (also blocks IE Mac). Nice.
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The national lottery website only seems to accept IE. It wont accept Firefox anyway :/
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If it's this site you're talking about, works fine here:
www.national-lottery.co.uk
Firefox, 22nd May build, win32.
(recent Firefox builds are a bit iffy though, I'd wait for the 0.9 stable release line to arrive rather than try a recent build if I were you)
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Firefox takes like 30 seconds to load, which is bad...
Ah, but only the initial load is slow. Load it at boottime while your fixing your coffee?
(FireBird 0.7) :-)
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Something that really surprised me recently was that the same date build of Firefox loads faster on Linux on my machine than on Windows. Less than a few seconds generally. On Windows I have a ramdisk set up so it's less than a second cold start.
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I guess I'll go with IE , but only because I'm tired of waiting forever for things to load....
But why not try out opera then? Opera is pretty much the fastest and most lightwight browser there is for windows.. It is fairly stable, has popup blocking and tabbed browsing aswell
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lorddef wrote:
why aren't you using Opera?
You mean why aren’t you using an oversized bag of human feces?
... actually make that a bag with advertisements on the side.
How the he*l can you call 3.3MB oversized? What other browser is smaller than that?
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cecilia wrote:
there is absolutely NO reason for anyone to use IE - which is the only real bag of feces.
Um, maybe because they want to? Which is reason enough. I use IE on my both my XP and Linux machines because it's fast, compatible, and works with everything I throw at it. You can't say the same thing about Opera. As for trojans or viruses, I've never gotten one on either system.
I never notice these ads which seem to interupt your life and i've been using Opera for the last year and a half.
You advocate the product so vigorously yet you don't spend the ~$40 to buy a real copy and support the company. Sounds a little hypocritical to me...
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Tomas wrote:
How the he*l can you call 3.3MB oversized? What other browser is smaller than that?
It's actually 3.4MB. And, if you don't have Java installed, it's a whopping 15.9MB. Firefox is much smaller. Heck, even IE is only 11.8MB.
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adolescent wrote:
You advocate the product so vigorously yet you don't spend the ~$40 to buy a real copy and support the company. Sounds a little hypocritical to me...
listen, kid, I don't have any money to spend on ANYTHING. and I don't HAVE to buy opera. if I had a regular income I would consider it because it it one of the few windows -related products that is actually not a disapointment.
when you pay my rent, you can talk. until then, shut the F up.
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cecilia wrote:
listen, kid, I don't have any money to spend on ANYTHING. and I don't HAVE to buy opera. if I had a regular income I would consider it because it it one of the few windows -related products that is actually not a disapointment.
when you pay my rent, you can talk. until then, shut the F up.
Sorry Mom. Don't take the fact that you can't afford a $40 piece of software out on me.
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adolescent wrote:
Tomas wrote:
How the he*l can you call 3.3MB oversized? What other browser is smaller than that?
It's actually 3.4MB. And, if you don't have Java installed, it's a whopping 15.9MB. Firefox is much smaller. Heck, even IE is only 11.8MB.
But since when did firefox come with java?? to get java with firefox, you have to download the sun java package, which is way bigger... IE is infact much bigger than 15megs...
Firefox is nearly twice as big, comes without java and opera has more features like built in irc client aswell...
I really like firefox myself, but what you claim is just bull..
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Tomas wrote:
But since when did firefox come with java?? to get java with firefox, you have to download the sun java package, which is way bigger... IE is infact much bigger than 15megs...
Firefox is nearly twice as big, comes without java and opera has more features like built in irc client aswell...
I really like firefox myself, but what you claim is just bull..
Bull? Not intentional, but maybe I'm misunderstanding. I went to Opera's download page and read the FAQ. It made it sound like Java was required. If that's not the case then I am wrong.
As for the IE size. This is the total size of the source distribution I just downloaded for my Windows XP. Sure, there are required files in the OS that are not included in this size, and it doesn't include features like an IRC client. I'll check how big my install on Wine is at home. But it definately wasn't that much larger.
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30 seconds?
It takes my SUN ultra 5 about 21 seconds to load Mozilla 1.6 from Solaris 9. (I just timed it) and that has 360Mhz of 64-Bit prossessing power! Not to mention 2 megs of level 2 cache for the love of god.
What's wrong with this picture?
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adolescent wrote:
Sorry Mom. Don't take the fact that you can't afford a $40 piece of software out on me.
as I've accomplished more in my life than you ever will, i don't need some pathetic loser child telling me what i should and shouldn't do.
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adolescent wrote:
cecilia wrote:
listen, kid, I don't have any money to spend on ANYTHING. and I don't HAVE to buy opera. if I had a regular income I would consider it because it it one of the few windows -related products that is actually not a disapointment.
when you pay my rent, you can talk. until then, shut the F up.
Sorry Mom. Don't take the fact that you can't afford a $40 piece of software out on me.
What the f**k?
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Bull? Not intentional, but maybe I'm misunderstanding. I went to Opera's download page and read the FAQ. It made it sound like Java was required. If that's not the case then I am wrong.
I apologize for sounding a bit rude then :-)
I am personally a big mozilla fan myself, and it is the browser i use most of the time, but i got a bit pissed when opera was called oversized, as it is the smallest and fastest browser i have seen for windows.
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cecelia chill out hun, he really isn't worth getting uptight about :-)
adolescent pack it in being such an a$$hat.
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the_leander wrote:
cecelia chill out hun, he really isn't worth getting uptight about :-)
adolescent pack it in being such an a$$hat.
Very mature. And to think, I'm supposed to be the adolescent here.
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weirdami: I want a stupidprogram so my mistakes can be seen easier.
You think THAT'S bad? Well, Firefox also auto-corrects your JavaScript code, as if it's not hard enough as it is to debug! Oh yeah, and the Mozilla JavaScript debugger will ignore many common errors that will work fine in Mozilla browsers, but will blow up most other browsers. How nice.
Also, try the W3C's official browser, Amaya. Not only does it crash every 5 minutes, but it will forcably fix your code when you save it, rather than just show you the errors, which often causes more problems than anything else. Web developer's axiom: "All HTML authoring tools suck".
I will never understand why browsers will only show an "X" if your JavaScript is broken. People should REALLY work on adding a good parser to every browser. I don't care if my documents are missing a DOCTYPE declaration, but I do care if my DIVs are not closed.
Opera rocks for debugging. It's still not much faster than IE/FF, though. If you really want error-free pages, though, you need a good editor. Relying on the browser to do thing right is a bad idea, since NONE of them work right.
If you really want an awesome HTML editor, look at EditPlus (http://www.EditPlus.com). It won't do parsing checks, but It has the best syntax highlighting I've ever seen, so you'll see if tags aren't closed, things aren't spelled right, you forgot a quote or double-quote, etc. It's also wicked fast, supports PHP, Perl, Java, Unix formatted text, and more.
Hagar: From my experience IE sees through a lot of mistakes aswell, there are lot of pages that constis of illegal html that explorer handles... (and since all of the browser have to be compliant with the market leader, so does firefox and opera). That suxx.
Yeah, but then, the W3C never included a special verification tag that tells the browser that you've verified the code, so it's always a guessing game whether you're doing things the standard way or the popular way. It amazes me how few people know how to do HTML properly, and how few things you can really do with CSS. Everybody's at fault for the mess, not just Microsoft/Netscape (I'm not terribly fond of the W3C).
Hager: In previous versions Opera did not allow the most stupid things in "opera-mode", however from what I have heard, it does nowadays
Most browsers support a "strict" mode that will show errors, but only if you have a DOCTYPE declaration to tell the browser you're using strict XHTML. Even that doesn't always work, though. So, now we have compatibility problems within the same version of a browser, let alone different browser versions, let alone brand differences! This is getting nuts.
vic20owner: It's the fastest most stable browser I've ever used (yes, I've used opera)
I'll go with fastest, but I've had it crash on me more often than I'd like, and it destroyed my profile once, requiring me to re-install it. Oh yeah, it's CSS support is also really screwed up. When making webpages with CSS, I've had to make more comprimises to get Firefox to work, than IE and Opera combined. It's particularly bad with padding, as I've often had text go right off the screen, and there's no scrollbar, so you can't read the whole text. Arrgh. When the hell is v0.9 going to be released?!
Floid: I'd not be so sure that 256 color setting is saving you anything. It means 1. a dithering routine has to run somewhere, and 2. PC memory isn't unified like that...
Even on old graphics cards, the dithering is done by hardware. I think 256 color mode only saves you some memory.
cecilia: there is absolutely NO reason for anyone to use IE - which is the only real bag of feces.
IE streams files properly, while FF/Opera have to download the file, first. This makes playing MPEG movies a real pest (Windows Media and Real still work fine). Also, IE handles filetypes LOADS better than Firefox. The download manager in Firefox is actually more trouble than it's worth. IE is also useful for ripping content, since it writes everything into the cache. Firefox won't let you save Flash files, for example. Firefox also has more caching problems than IE. I run a BBS, and I have lots of problems with wrong pictures showing up, the wrong CSS being used, etc.
I still use Firefox as my default browser, but it's not as good as people say it is. I still use IE for some pages.
cecilia: I'd rather know my pages are legal. eventually, IE will be gone.
I'm looking forward to IE 7, actually. It's supposed to have popup blockers, for one, though details are sketchy.
Amigamad: Some sites only work properly with ie.
E-mail the webmaster and complain! 15% of my web traffic is Mozilla, and 80% is IE. That's still pretty significant.
Mikeymike: Something that really surprised me recently was that the same date build of Firefox loads faster on Linux on my machine than on Windows.
I tend to shun conspiracy theories, but I have to admit that most of the Linux code ported to Win32 runs like crap, and I really think they do it on purpose. Every try to use a GTK application on Windows? Win32 isn't THAT slow.
Tomas: Opera is pretty much the fastest and most lightwight browser there is for windows.
I'll contest that. Opera 7 uses custom widgets in FORMs, and has lots of gratuitious animated buttons and crap. I never cared much for the Opera interface, and I think it's really starting to bog down the browser these days.
adolscent: Heck, even IE is only 11.8MB.
Heh. "Only". :-)
adolscent, to cicilia: Sorry Mom. Don't take the fact that you can't afford a $40 piece of software out on me.
Here here.
Tomas: IE is infact much bigger than 15megs...
Most browsers come in different packages. IE can be as small as 9MB or as big as 22MB, depending on what you already have. Lots of mandatory Windows updates are tied to IE, unfortunately. On Win2K, my system, IE 6.0 was an 11MB download.
Firefox v0.8 is currently a 6.2MB download, and requires Java seperately, which is 15MB. That's not bad.
[ED: Sorry, Java isn't required. But, Java2 is loads better than Microsoft's VM, so you might as well get it.]
cecilia: i don't need some pathetic loser child...
Stop. Just... stop.
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adolescent wrote:
the_leander wrote:
cecelia chill out hun, he really isn't worth getting uptight about :-)
adolescent pack it in being such an a$$hat.
Very mature. And to think, I'm supposed to be the adolescent here.
I think it is very mature, you go out and attack for no good reason a member of this board, then seem surprised when that person gets irritated with you...
I tell you to pack it in being such an a$$hat and *I'm* being immature? get real kid, seriously.
You DO NOT attack someone on financial grounds, not only is it a clear breach of the TOS (which clearly you've not read) its downright low! Its just bad form that I simply cannot abide, nore should anyone here have to either.
How dare you sir, how bloody dare you :pissed: :pissed:
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Why are you people using browsers to debug HTML, PHP etc.? To test, yes, but to debug?!?