Amiga.org
Coffee House => Coffee House Boards => CH / Science and Technology => Topic started by: redrumloa on May 24, 2004, 04:30:53 PM
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Electric Vehicle of course. I was holding out for a Fuel Cell vehicle, but that seems way too far off and costly. I am now very seriously considering doing an electric conversion myself. My daily beater is a 92 Ford Ranger, plenty of room for batteries and (of course) already paid for. Since this truck is a crappy beater I want to do a conversion on the cheap, with little concern for asthetics.
So Amiga.org fans, anyone here own an EV? Experiences, thoughts? I'd love to hear it.
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I read it as EEV first time, and thought it was a tad premature considering I don't have a spacecraft :-D
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redrumloa wrote:
Electric Vehicle of course. I was holding out for a Fuel Cell vehicle, but that seems way too far off and costly. I am now very seriously considering doing an electric conversion myself.
I was starting to look into that myself. Our old car is starting to get to the point where we have to put $300 a year into the motor and that seems like a good time to change the whole drive system!
But looking around it seems expensive to convert. I was looking at brushless motors the other day and I can't see why they are so much more expensive than brushed motors. Maybe it's because they're newer, maybe it's because you can pack more copper into them, maybe it's a premium they charge for the extra efficiency, whatever...
Another thing is energy density of the batteries, and how far do you want to go? Lead acid is cheap and lithium sulphur is ... well, both expensive and not in production.
Vehicle weight is another important consideration. Just a back of the envelope calculation says it takes 40 kiloWatts to go from 0 to 30 mph in 4 seconds for every ton.
Anyway, I've just joined the local EV club and I'm looking forward to seeing other peoples conversions. There is probably an EV club down in your neck of the woods too. These clubs seem to attract nerds and electrical engineers. Can't understand why.
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Our old car is starting to get to the point where we have to put $300 a year into the motor and that seems like a good time to change the whole drive system!
My truck only has ~105K, but previous owners were quite rough on it. I figured I'd yank the engine and sell it while it still runs good.
But looking around it seems expensive to convert.
Depends what you are looking at. CyberEye has done quite a bit of research, and from the little I've done it seems you can buy a pretty complete kit, and add batteries, for about $8,000. The kits I'm looking at only require about 40 hours labor for a half competant person to do their own conversion. I consider myself half competant :lol:
The thing to look at is cost of maintenance. Bateries need to be changed about every 4 years on an EV, and that's it. Cars need oil changes, parts break down and need replaced. There are just so damn many points of failure on an internal compustion engine it isn't funny. Electricty is cheaper than gas, but less than I expected.
Anyway, I've just joined the local EV club and I'm looking forward to seeing other peoples conversions. There is probably an EV club down in your neck of the woods too. These clubs seem to attract nerds and electrical engineers. Can't understand why.
:lol: That's funny. It's a good idea, but I wonder if I have the free time:-/ We'll see.
Right now i am gathering as much information as possible. I'd like to do a conversion as cheap as possible, so I'm hoping to find a solution cheaper than $8,000.
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when I 1st went to LA (california), i found out about a group of people who converted cars to electrical.
They had a meeting in Pasadena. I asked to drive the guys car in the parking lot. (i think the meeting was at the college there).
aside from turning the key and not hearing a sound, the car felt normal.
I'm sure if you searched you could find groups there that would have alot of helpful info. they have been doing it for years!
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iamaboringperson wrote:
petrol x1000
It wouldn't surprise me if you went round dumping oil into the sea because only hippies and communists refrain from doing so.
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that_punk_guy wrote:
iamaboringperson wrote:
petrol x1000
It wouldn't surprise me if you went round dumping oil into the sea because only hippies and communists refrain from doing so.
Why, would 'dumping oil into the sea' make my car run faster, have better acceleration & torque, and cause it to produce a pretty noise?
NO! So why would you even write such a thing??? :X
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make my car run faster, have better acceleration & torque, and cause it to produce a pretty noise?
Is that what matters to you in life then?
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mikeymike wrote:
make my car run faster, have better acceleration & torque, and cause it to produce a pretty noise?
Is that what matters to you in life then?
I think it is. ;-)
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I can only wish, myself... but if you're serious about it, a Honda Insight might be a shortcut, with the caveat that what was once starting to become affordable in the used market has regained value for the higher pump prices... and it still does need a bit of gas, though you can charge the electric portion with a windmills or the like.
(Someone's currently moaning about poor MPG on the Civic Hybrid, but that was intended to be the 'cushy,' completely 'normal car'-alike model.)
Depends what you intend to do with it...
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mikeymike wrote:
make my car run faster, have better acceleration & torque, and cause it to produce a pretty noise?
Is that what matters to you in life then?
Yea baby! :lol:
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iamaboringperson wrote:
Why, would 'dumping oil into the sea' make my car run faster, have better acceleration & torque, and cause it to produce a pretty noise?
No, but even internal combustion is very old, very bad tech, and modern cars are slow and have poor efficiency and performance. It's the steam engine of the 21st century. If you want a powerful car it might be worth moving your mind on to more advanced technologies. Especially those that don't use a resource that's fast running out and the price of which is going through the roof.
Anyway...don't you remember the anecdote about how men who like fast cars are 'lacking' in a certain part of anatomy? :)
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Oh wow this thread is getting political, I guess I should state my thoughts.
I love muscle cars, I appreciate internal combustion. Nothing wrong with them. However I also love technology, and the internal combustion engine is terribly outdated. Too many moving parts, too many points of failure. Also there is far, far too much dependance on big oil and OPEC. But mainly IMO the strengths of a pure EV is starting to outweigh the weakness, for a daily driver in many cases.
To people who think an EV has to be slow, not exactly. Want to see the future of EVs? Read THIS (http://www.evworld.com/archives/reports/tzero_race.html).
Here's a clip.
AC Propulsion' s tzero out-accelerated a Ferrari F355, a new Corvette, and a Porsche Carrera 4 in a series of impromptu 1/8 mile drag races held last weekend at Moffett Field in Mountain View, California, and at Calstart' s northern facility at the former Alameda Naval Air Station. The tzero was driven to the Bay Area from southern California last week. That journey spanned more than the geographic distance between those two areas, it spanned two cultures as well. Hot rodding, coming from the garages of Los Angeles, and high tech, growing from a garage in Palo Alto, are combined in the tzero.
The tzero is a silicon hot rod. It starts with the hot rodder's holy grail, horsepower - 200 of them. But the tzero harnesses the power with 120 IGBTs, equal to 7200 square millimeters of silicon-based control. The result is acceleration to 60 mph in 4.1 seconds, efficiency equivalent to 70 mpg, and emissions equal to zero. The tzero is an electric car.
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@KennyR
Stop that!!! I'm not supposed to agree with you!!(except the part about male anatomy) :nervous:
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redrumloa wrote:
@KennyR
Stop that!!! I'm not supposed to agree with you!!(except the part about male anatomy) :nervous:
:roflmao:
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Hum,
wouldn`t it be great if F1 had a EV car in it?
With the amount they spend on R&D, i bet they could come up with something outstanding...
[Yea, canna change the laws of physics , captain!]
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i guess some people just don't want to believe me when I said the electric car i drove felt JUST LIKE A REGULAR CAR.
none are so blind.......etc.
anyway, for those interested in moving into the future,
Hybrid Electric Vehicles (http://www.ott.doe.gov/hev/)
LA show (http://www.laautoshow.com/)
reva (http://www.revaindia.com/)
honda hybrids (http://whyfiles.org/005electcar/)
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iamaboringperson wrote:
that_punk_guy wrote:
iamaboringperson wrote:
petrol x1000
It wouldn't surprise me if you went round dumping oil into the sea because only hippies and communists refrain from doing so.
Why, would 'dumping oil into the sea' make my car run faster, have better acceleration & torque, and cause it to produce a pretty noise?
NO! So why would you even write such a thing??? :X
:-? you have to get rid of used dirty oil don't you? And what's cheaper than dumping it in the sea? :-)
T_Bone wrote:
redrumloa wrote:
@KennyR
Stop that!!! I'm not supposed to agree with you!!(except the part about male anatomy) :nervous:
:roflmao:
you always seem getting a bit strained about this subject, T-Bone.. :inquisitive:
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iamaboringperson wrote:
Why, would 'dumping oil into the sea' make my car run faster, have better acceleration & torque, and cause it to produce a pretty noise?
NO! So why would you even write such a thing??? :X
Are you saying you would if it did?! :-o
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Electric cars only makes sense if you are not getting your electricity from oil or coal. There is always a net gain in pollution in the conversion process using these fuels.
Californians are always harping on electric cars, but they buy a lot of their electric power out of state from oil or coal fueled plants, putting the pollution in somebody else's back yard.
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for those interested in seeing one of the many ways New York is looking into making electricity aside from wasting oil:
http://nyc10044.com/wire/2310/verdant.html
here they will be using the currents in the east river to generate energy.
and before you assume that's means very little:
"The East River off Roosevelt Island may one day generate enough electricity to power office buildings the size of the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center."
(and before some wise a55 makes some dumb comment, the East River has been clean for the last couple of decades now. last spring i saw a SWAN swimming with a bunch of ducks. it was white and stayed white. plus, alot of geese come by Roosevelt Island and make their babies there. I've got photos!!)
the Stilwell subway station in coney island will be powered entirely by solar panels. (except the trains, of course). the station is QUITE large. when i find a link i'll put it here. it should be done this year. can't wait to visit the Cyclons (minor league baseball) and see it.
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@cecilia
That's pretty cool. I think the whole state of Florida should be covered with solar panels. That would noy only provide tons of free electricity, but would also block out the damn sun :-)
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that's the way they should design malls.
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cecilia wrote:
that's the way they should design malls.
Yeah, unfortunately because of hurricanes, the building codes in FL and damn strict. It's got to be hell to get a permit to install a solar panel, mind you I havn't tried.
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Redrumloa wrote:
Yeah, unfortunately because of hurricanes, the building codes in FL and damn strict. It's got to be hell to get a permit to install a solar panel, mind you I havn't tried.
I was going to say how unfair that was, until I considered how dangerous such things could be in a hurricane if not secured properly. Still, it shouldn't be too hard to get one; I don't even own my house and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't need a permit to stick a few panels on the roof. (Haven't checked though. :-))
For a while I was looking at getting some solar panels and a wind fan to generate the 200W or so my computers use. Electricity prices will go up soon and when they do, you can bet solar panel prices will too. Takes a lot of energy to make those things. Right now they're as cheap as chips here, seems the Chinese are pumping the things out by the wagonload lately.
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I don't even own my house and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't need a permit to stick a few panels on the roof. (Haven't checked though. :-))
Pfft, actually building codes are terrible here and covers just about everything. Building codes are enforced by either the city or county. Every county (or city) has their own codes. Then there are state building codes, federal guidlines etc. Want to install a fence? Get a permit. Want to cut down that nuisance tree? Get a permit.
Not bad enough? If you are unlucky enough to live in a private community, there is neighborhood associations with their own rules.
So badly I've wanted to move to Montana or Alaska and live in a totally rural area with no contact with the outside world except an internet connection :idea:
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@ Cecilia
"the East River has been clean for the last couple of decades now"
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Just because the US hasn't signed the Kyoto treaty, too many people assume the US is a dirty place and we don't care about a clean environment. Sure there are places in the US that need more clean up, but it is a lot cleaner than it was 20 or 30 years ago, and a heck of a lot cleaner than most other countries I have been to.
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cecilia wrote:
(and before some wise a55 makes some dumb comment, the East River has been clean for the last couple of decades now. last spring i saw a SWAN swimming with a bunch of ducks. it was white and stayed white. plus, alot of geese come by Roosevelt Island and make their babies there. I've got photos!!)
But Kramer stunk so bad after doing laps in the East River that he stunk up Elaines mattress! I saw it on Seinfeld, it MUST be true ;-)
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bah double post.
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@redrumloa
Who's the sad case in your avatar???
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T_Bone wrote:
But Kramer stunk so bad after doing laps in the East River that he stunk up Elaines mattress! I saw it on Seinfeld, it MUST be true ;-)
that's "ode De Kramer"
:-D
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sumner7 wrote:
@redrumloa
Who's the sad case in your avatar???
Oh come on, I'm not THAT ugly! I took a dozen pictures of myself, and that one came out best;-)
-Edit-
But seriously, it is a pic I grabbed from a music video of one of my favorite bands.
Six Feet Under - THE DAY THE DEAD WALKED (http://www.metalblade.de/newsfu.html)
[color=990000]WARNING! VIDEO NOT SUITABLE FOR YOUNG VIEWERS![/color]
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redrumloa wrote:
sumner7 wrote:
@redrumloa
Who's the sad case in your avatar???
Oh come on, I'm not THAT ugly! I took a dozen pictures of myself, and that one came out best;-)
-Edit-
But seriously, it is a pic I grabbed from a music video of one of my favorite bands.
Six Feet Under - THE DAY THE DEAD WALKED (http://www.metalblade.de/newsfu.html)
[color=990000]WARNING! VIDEO NOT SUITABLE FOR YOUNG VIEWERS![/color]
The teeth makes him look ugly.
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He looks like a BNP supporter! ;-)
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About EV's!
I just made a small calculation, that if I want to replace the engine in my car with a electric one with the same rating, how many batteries I would need at minimum.
The facts:
My car is a Audi 100 with a 110kW engine (about 140hp).
Some common 12V led-acid batteries have the following rating 65Ah and 100A continous current.
Each battery would be able to generate 12V*100A=1200W which would give the following calculation 110kW/1.2W=91.67 batteries. So with 92 batteries I would be able to drive for 65Ah/100A=39 minutes.
Just the weight of all these batteries would probably make the care dead slow.
OK, the time calculation is a bit extreme as it assumes pushing the car to the limit (220km/h).
Anyway it's showing that with standard batteries it would be hard to pull a standard car. In this case you probably have to think about a hybrid that generates power with a gas turbin. This is the way they use to do it on many passenger ferries since the 1930's as it gives much higher flexibility in the design plus some other benefits like generating less noise.
The idea of electric conversion is cool and it should be possible since electric cars were quite common, and often outperformed gasoline cars, in the end of the 19th century.
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iamaboringperson wrote:
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But we can have our cake and eat it....
Methanol is a great fuel. It's better for the environment than petrol (gasoline) and has the recommendation of the Indy 500 in it's favour... plus there's speculation that fuel cells and hydrogen may power future cars.
Electric power = maximum torque from zero rpm. How great is that? From zero to 10,000 rpm solid torque curve. An American Le Mans racer used electric power to realise such heady outputs in 1996, via a flywheel. We've just got to adapt from what we're used to but there's no reason whay a future sports car shouldn't pull and sound as nice as what we're used to.
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Electric power = maximum torque from zero rpm. How great is that? From zero to 10,000 rpm solid torque curve. An American Le Mans racer used electric power to realise such heady outputs in 1996, via a flywheel. We've just got to adapt from what we're used to but there's no reason whay a future sports car shouldn't pull and sound as nice as what we're used to.
But PMC, what about ones petrol head mates? They're not gonna like it! :(
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But PMC, what about ones petrol head mates? They're not gonna like it! :(
If it goes like petrol, sounds like petrol and is good for the environment, I'd go for it.... I consider myself a real petrolhead, but the gasoline powered internal combustion engine is living on borrowed time.
Now if it was powered by say methanol, you'd get identical power outputs and it would sound like a proper engine - V8 Indy engines sound real nice right? Where's the harm? Methanol burns cleaner than Gasoline, so I'd be pretyy happy.