Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: gizz72 on May 20, 2004, 02:55:49 AM
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Greetings,
I need advice here. After reading the AmigaUser turned Peg2 user article earlier. I'm in a tight fix now. I can't decide weather which one I should consider for upgrades. A peg2HW and MorphOS or PeeCee based machine running emulated AmigaOS. I know it's a bit personal but I want to upgrade my classic A1200 besides playing games on a day-off or making beautiful music together. Need specs as well. I just want to merge both work and play in one machine.
Which to choose? 'the blue pill or the red pill?' kind of analogy here. Your advice(s) is/are greatly appreciated. :-D
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Well, what are you planning on doing with your machine? Cost aside, the Pegasos or A1 will ensure that you're set for the future, whereas a PC with UAE/Amithlon will give you the fastest access of Classic Amiga apps. PCs are available in some really cool, really small cases, which is always fun. You could also do the same when the MicroA1 comes to market. Also bear in mind that you'll lose direct access to older games/apps with a Peg/A1 (UAE will be needed), but an emulated system should be able to handle them directly.
It's your call, though - what do you want? Older stuff only faster, or newer stuff?
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As Matt says, what do you want? If you want to play old games, buy Amiga Forever or some other emulator.
If you want a new OS and support that will last for the life of the machine, you will have to make up your mind which of the red or blue camps is more likely to survive in the long term.
Ignore the side issues of Amiga Inc, KMOS and Genesi - none of them is doing any of the OS design and support. As far as the OS and its applications are concerned, it's MorphOS and its supporters Vs Hyperion and its supporters. I can't advise you on that, but I'm sure many others will.
tony
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It's your call, though - what do you want? Older stuff only faster, or newer stuff?
Hmmm that's tough one. It's like letting go of the past and moving on, or, leave my old games so I can play better games. Got so many games I love on Amiga that I can't leave. Anyway, that's where my A1200 comes in to fill that gap, but it's still a tough choice for me. On the other hand, my love for 'newer stuff' also kicks in. Although I'm not sure what it 'feels' like to drive a MorphOS, but my curiosity over takes me sometimes. It's the same feeling when I knew the first A1000 back in '85. I'm impressed with Morph as well. I still could not make up mind. Unless someone could give an inspiring answer.
I was hoping it to use it on games and programming. Playing games while developing a few apps(using VB, DB2 server) from office work as well. Sometimes when the need arise, web developement is one of my budding interest too, paint programs comes in to fill that. As well as Web Server. I was hoping I could do both in one system. Does A1OS and MorphOS is capable enough to meet my needs(play old games fast and do newer stuffs as well)?
Good day to all Amigans! :-D
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'the blue pill or the red pill?'
Aargh! You beat me to it :-) , I was just waiting for an oppurtunity to use that acronym.
Wasn't the red pill supposed to give you the awful truth, while the blue pill would send you back into the dreamworld(Matrix), remembering nothing? Can't get that to connect with the Amiga vs. Pegasos situation to well though :-P
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http://funwavs.com/movie/sounds/the-matrix/?page=7
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Ahh the Amiga! 'Isn't it worth dying for?'
:lol:
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Both ?
:-P
Hmmmm... a little expensive I think... :oops:
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Take both ;) Buy Peg2 and run MOS for newer stuff and use UAE on MOS to emulate the older stuff.
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THE PEGASOS!!
What would you run on the x86?
A pegasos will run AmigaOS software under emulation, plus PowerPC MorphOS , AND WarpUP & PowerUP software, natively.
See if you can find where a peg is being demonstrated. The first time I saw one, I realised it was better than I had imagined. Buying a Pegasos was one of the best decisions I have made - ever.
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Buy a fast PC and run WinUAE whenever you feel the need for some Amiga action.
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iamaboringperson wrote:
What would you run on the x86?
A helluvalot more than on the classic Amiga, AmigaOne and Pegasos platforms :-P?
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So can I still do office work(VB stuffs, office Xp, DB2 server) under MOS?
Good day to all Amigans! :-D
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gizz72 wrote:
So can I still do office work(VB stuffs, office Xp, DB2 server) under MOS?
Harhar. In any case, my opinion is to ditch all this slow and outdated PPC stuff which still doesn't allow you to choose freely from all available hardware even though it can be plugged in, and go for a PC. Much more bang for the buck. The only reason you should stick to Amigas or Pegasoses is when you have notions about 'going against the flow', 'thinking differently' and so forth. And then it becomes a matter of religion. The Pegasos has the advantage of having much more native applications, something which cannot be said for the AmigaOne. The latter has of course the name and from the scarce information available, a better redesign of the OS.
I am quite sure that even if at the moment the AmigaOne was sold with a full version of AmigaOS 4.0, you'd still hesitate. None of the mentioned computers will do exactly what your aging 1200 can do today. All of the computers will behave exceedingly fast and powerful. To stick with cheap Matrix quips: 'Try not to select The Computer, for that is impossible. Instead try to realise the truth: there is no The Computer. Then you will see it is not The Computer that you select, it is only yourself.'
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Looking at what you want to do, I'd suggest going for a PC and keeping the 1200. This'll allow you to do the newer stuff you're looking to do, and play the classics on the 1200. (Maybe it's just me, but at this point I'm wondering if I'm ever going to find WinUAE smooth enough to play games on.
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Keep your A1200 for games and other such stuff that needs the real hardware and use WinUAE on the pc for the wellbehaved programs since you want to use windows programs too.
And try AROS on that pc! www.aros.org :-)
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So I should 'Re-insert myself into the Matrix' and take the 'blue pill'. :lol:
So it 'taste like Chicken' 'but it's not.'
hmmm. 'what a mind chow!'
:lol:
well, there are 'Comstruct'(aros). :-D
Good day to all Amigans! :-D
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Hoya!
Wait for OS4 to be released if you want to compare it with MOS...
There is NO point in comparing AONE/Linux Vs Peg/MOS. You want to use AMIGAOS, not Linux, don't you?
As for emulating an Amiga with a peecee... Well, it is faster, yes, but then it is NOT the Real Thing, is it?
Be funky
M A D
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As for emulating an Amiga with a peecee... Well, it is faster, yes, but then it is NOT the Real Thing, is it?
it's real enough. I do it all the time. I've made various things in the last year on my emulated amiga. I don't regret having it at all!!!
and as it's on a laptop i have an amiga on the go, which was the entire point. at least for me.
as AROS matures and WinUAE and Amiga Forever continue to improve, it can only get better.
we never need to be without our favorite OS. :-D
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> So can I still do office work(VB stuffs, office Xp, DB2
> server) under MOS?
If you need to run PC software. Then you can do most (non-networking) stuff with the aid of BOCHS. But it'll harken you back to the days of 486's (not sound and networking though). If you need to run DOS software then DOSBox might be able to help you and it's slightly faster (maybe by the virtue of not having all of windows bogging you down.)
If you need to run MS Office, then you might be able to get away with PegXMac + MacOSX + Mac version of office (and other software that is available).
That said, I pretty much don't bother with most of that when I'm at home. :P I use my Peg+MOS as my main system but I generally only use it for general web browsing, e-mail. I use VIM to edit html and write Hollywood scripts. I do graphic work/image processing with FxPaint, ImageFx, Cinema4D and Drawstudio 2. When I need to write a nice document, I generally just go into Pagestream and save it out as a PDF for distribution.
I occasionally hop onto my low-spec (Pentium 500 Celeron) laptop for things that are only available on the PC... But that's generally not too often.
Personally I would be overjoyed if there was a JAVA virtual machine but I'm not counting on it. :-(
If you are strictly looking to play games, then in most cases you'll be stuck using UAE for MOS (unless they are later games that are system friendly). The only edge MOS gives you over PC UAE is it's compatibility with Amiga PPC software. And with PearPC, it might no longer be that much of an advantage in the future. :P
The safe solution for you, would be to go for a PC + UAE solution especially if you're just looking at using your current software and not looking at another OS upgrade. I would recommend having a catweasel mk III as well. (It greatly simplified things for me with my Pegasos. :P)
Sadly, there are better solutions to run Amiga software on PC's, then PC software on Amiga-based solutions.
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As an amigaone owner who still has no os4, I would say get a pegasos 2 as then you will be able to use it because it comes with morphos, its cheaper as well its what i now wish i had done .
remember you could be waiting another 6 months or more for os4 one time we were told it would be available for last christmas.and even then its only a beta. :-o
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Greetings to all,
Your responses are important to me. Thank you all. In due time, I'll be able to find the right one. It's quite a choice. With this community, your being one is the most important of all despite some differences. I hope that pety issues will be resolved with new solutions and alternatives on the works. In the comming days, the best practical solution will hit me. I'll have an idea of my new system. Thanks again for the support and shared experiences. I'll probably post my progress again soon. Again thanks to the Amiga Community. In any ways, Amiga still rules and rocks my world. Who knows, 5 or 50 years from now I'm still be using the Amiga(on a 'Nebukadnezar':-P ) no matter what happens to 'ZION':-P. Only time can tell. Thanks again.
Good day to all Amians! :-D
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Take the Black Pill! :-)
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@argo
Take the Black Pill!
:pint:
>gulp<
Good day to all Amigans! :-D
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@sdesros
Personally I would be overjoyed if there was a JAVA virtual machine but I'm not counting on it.
So Jamiga (http://www.jamiga.org/) is not enough to fit in a virtual machine role? Really? :-(
Greetings to all Amigans! :-D
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My advice is to follow the trend in the local community. Here in Sweden almost everyone I know use A1 or Classic Amiga. If you use a Pegasos you are not welcome in most amiga clubs. So for me it was a choice about joining a community with about 20 users (peg!) or about 300 (amiga).
The OS4 event here was visited by 250 people. The Pegasos event PUGS, well, about 10.
If the situation in your country is the opposite, choose Pegasos. If it´s the same as in Sweden, choose A1/Classic.
It´s never fun to be alone.
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If you use a Pegasos you are not welcome in most amiga clubs.
It's luckily the opposite here. And there is no "hate games" going on between classic and Pegasos users. There are clashes between OS4 developers and MorphOS owners, that's true. To my knowledge our country have one AmigaONE so far, and even that's still abroad. We have a growing Pegasos community instead, all Pegasos users having Amiga roots, with little exception.
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Which to choose? 'the blue pill or the red pill?' kind of analogy here. Your advice(s) is/are greatly appreciated.
Depends on your budget.
If you don't want to ditch most of the stuff a PC can offer (cheap HW, tons of games, etc.) keep or buy a PC and buy a Pegasos as well. Use AmigaForever on the PC as it will give you better compatibility and greater speed for older games, and you will have access to Windows if it's needed.
There is an other solution though.
If you are determined enough you can do Photoshop/Office/WebDesign et all with your Pegasos via MacOnLinux.
In both cases you will have an intensively developed OS - MorphOS: which will be something between the classic AmigaOS and the bleeding edge operating systems of today.
As always: try MorphOS out, and see how you like it. There is no brute force involved in winning you over :-)
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Here in Sweden almost everyone I know use A1 or Classic Amiga. If you use a Pegasos you are not welcome in most amiga clubs.
LOL. Why is that?
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because its an amiga club and not a pegasos club.
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Here in Finland we have Amiga, A1 and Pegasos users in the same club. Peg users contribute to A1 forums and A1 users contribute to Peg forums and we all contribute to Amiga forums. Everything works in perfect order.
Doesnt matter are you PC user or A1 user or Peg user, as long as it is related to Amiga :-D Why it can't work in Sweden too?
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because its an amiga club and not a pegasos club.
I never heard anything that stupid.
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My doctor gives me little blue 15Mg Morphine pills, that I take 2 times a day. Oh and I`m very happy with my Pegasos 2
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Well as the writer of the Article I can see how its a hard choice for you. I was dead against the Pegasos before I used one. I saw the light I guess you could say. Since you have an A1200 you dont need classic game compatability. The Pegasos wont do that for you. What it will do is run just about all the system friendly apps and games in speeds you never dreamed of. The system feels like an Amiga, there is no question about it. ITs much more compatable then I ever expected. The price is fantastic, and it looks great. At present there are more apps then for the A1. IBM and several other LARGE computer companies have signed on as partners. I see nothing but great things from this machine in the near future. I would get a G4 and leave the G3 alone. Trust me, you wont regret it al all. At first its a bit plain, but when you get the classic librarys installed and dress up the looks of MUI its a fantastic machine to use.
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because its an amiga club and not a pegasos club.
It's just as sensible as "then how come linux only machines were allowed?"
Pointless, camouflaged hate words, again. There is no point in that.
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@ gizz72
If you want to be able to keep playing classic, hardware banging games (and other software of the same kind), then I suggest that you keep your classic machine and buy a Pegasos II G4 for the more "serious" areas of usage. I think that WinUAE feels slow and sluggish, even on my 2800+ Nforce2 setup, and I would only recommend that solution if your wallet is on a diet! ;-)
You will not regret getting a Pegasos II IMHO! Go for it! :-)
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Morley wrote:
Wasn't the red pill supposed to give you the awful truth, while the blue pill would send you back into the dreamworld
I can confirm that; I took the blue pill myself and now I am back in the Amiga Dreamworld! :-P ;-) :-D
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itix wrote:
Here in Sweden almost everyone I know use A1 or Classic Amiga. If you use a Pegasos you are not welcome in most amiga clubs.
LOL. Why is that?
Because those people have created a K-K-Kommunity for themselves; a sad bunch of die hard religious people in a cult, spending their time worshipping the boing ball and Amiga logotype and trying to keep the pure separated from the infidels. That is actually how it is. But that is not a problem really, they are actually not very many who is like that, and I think they do the world a favour by sealing themselves in a closet. It can however become annoying when it shines through like when they simply refuses to be under the same roof as Pegasos owners on Amiga shows, etc. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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itix wrote:
because its an amiga club and not a pegasos club.
I never heard anything that stupid.
You see? :lol: :lol: :lol:
"Narrow minded", "childish", "low", "insane", etc, are other words that describes this!
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itix wrote:
Here in Finland we have Amiga, A1 and Pegasos users in the same club. Peg users contribute to A1 forums and A1 users contribute to Peg forums and we all contribute to Amiga forums. Everything works in perfect order.
Doesnt matter are you PC user or A1 user or Peg user, as long as it is related to Amiga :-D Why it can't work in Sweden too?
Because we have Samface! :-P :lol:
No, sorry Sammy! ;-)
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@ gizz72
BTW, you might also be interested to see a glimpse of the closest upcoming OS release from the MorphOS path, and small bits and pieces of information are beginning to find its way into the public, like from the MorphOS 1.5 presentation on the recent PUSH event:
http://www.morphos-news.de/index.php?lg=en&nid=764&si=1 (http://www.morphos-news.de/index.php?lg=en&nid=764&si=1)
:-D :-D :-D
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My advice is to follow the trend in the local community.
My advice is, make your own choice, don't let others make it!
If my father had chosen for me, I would have bought 486 instead of my A1200 back then :-D
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EDIT: Accidental double post.
I'm a Pegasos 2 user, but as I said in my previous comment, "Make your own choice"
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itix wrote:
Here in Sweden almost everyone I know use A1 or Classic Amiga. If you use a Pegasos you are not welcome in most amiga clubs.
LOL. Why is that?
Well. I guess a lot of people think that UAE, MorphOS, Amithlon and all that is fine, but it´s not Amiga.
At AmiGbg the conflict was quite obvious. Jens from Individual Computers responded to a question if he would consider supporting pegasos / morphos, with the frase "and a serious question please?" and then continued ranting about Bill Buck being a menace to society. A few MorphOs supporters were there, in spite of it being an amiga event, and they got quite upset. Well, the situation got ugly, and as a result many now feel that MorphOs users should stick to pegasos events from now on and leave the amiga community alone.
Perhaps the situation is extreme here, but the amiga community is quite large in Sweden, and loyal to the extreme. Many of us old users have followed amiga for two decades and would probably follow amiga inc through the gates of hell before we switched to any 3rd party solution.
It´s really sad. I sold my pegasos II even though I liked it, but everybody else has an AmigaOne here so it got kind of lonely. And I had to sell it cheap to, becauase here we are well stocked with brand new Peg 2 boards that nobody will buy. I should have saved the board and used it as a server, but I was short on cash :(
But with PUGS and stuff, the small Pegasos community might grow over time, and as development continues I'm sure they can break all ties with amiga and be a full fledged community by themselves. Then perhaps I will join! But today I´m stuck with the boing ball, and the butterfly will have to wait...
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At AmiGbg the conflict was quite obvious. Jens from Individual Computers responded to a question if he would consider supporting pegasos / morphos, with the frase "and a serious question please?" and then continued ranting about Bill Buck being a menace to society.
I know he doesn't like BB... But I don't have personal problems with him and his Catweasel card is getting support from MorphOS software (Frodo).
Perhaps the situation is extreme here, but the amiga community is quite large in Sweden, and loyal to the extreme. Many of us old users have followed amiga for two decades and would probably follow amiga inc through the gates of hell before we switched to any 3rd party solution.
Don't they know Amiga Inc. is no longer in the scene? But you are right for extreme... (Samface, trgse's anti-MOS code and your "if you have a peg user you are not welcome" statement).
It´s really sad. I sold my pegasos II even though I liked it, but everybody else has an AmigaOne here so it got kind of lonely. And I had to sell it cheap to, becauase here we are well stocked with brand new Peg 2 boards that nobody will buy. I should have saved the board and used it as a server, but I was short on cash :(
You could use next generation Amiga when everyone else was stuck with their Linux boxes so your investment wasn't bad at all. If you think A1 suits your needs then why not. It is your money nevertheless. At least you could rejoin your user club now if it was important for you.
But I can't still understand why ban WinUAE, Amithlon or Pegasos users from the club. It is like lonely dark fortress in the middle of nothing.
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Here in Sweden almost everyone I now use A1 or Classic Amiga. If you use a Pegasos you are not welcome in most amiga clubs.
I am afraid that's one of the reasons everything is such a mess these days. I know that if you have an Amiga group meeting you might get strange looks when asking Pegasos questions. The same goes for mailinglists. But that's not what I am talking about. It's the, oh you got an Amiga? You suck! You got an Pegasos? You suck, attitude. For some people if you have a machine that is different then the machine they got your the worst enemy.
If there is some kind of Amiga show/meeting and there are some Pegasos users that just want to see how's it going with the Amiga and they hear this ranting about the Pegasos you can imagine they are upset. Goes for the otherway around too. Sadly, that's the way it is these days.
I have no respect for people that only want to cause trouble. From both sides!
Coder
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@ itix
But I can't still understand why ban WinUAE, Amithlon or Pegasos users from the club. It is like lonely dark fortress in the middle of nothing.
I'm sorry, but I don't know of a single usergroup that bans people that are using something else than Amiga in Sweden. I think this picture that has been portrayed here.. well, it's not the picture I have of it.
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It´s really sad
Yeah they sound like a right bunch of sad {censorship}. if they are really anti-morphos/amithlon/uae then i hope all software developers using the above give this whole community the middle finger,(lets see how you pussies like that).
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There are just a few people that are being a total arse. They are spreading all that crap. They are on both sides. The rest of us get along just fine.
Coder
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Paul_Gadd wrote:
It´s really sad
Yeah they sound like a right bunch of sad {censorship}. if they are really anti-morphos/amithlon/uae then i hope all software developers using the above give this whole community the middle finger,(lets see how you pussies like that).
Unless you know first hand how it really is, I don't think you should voice so strong opinions. It's probably more like what coder says, there's a few people on both sides stirring the can of s h i t e..
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reflect wrote:
@ itix
But I can't still understand why ban WinUAE, Amithlon or Pegasos users from the club. It is like lonely dark fortress in the middle of nothing.
I'm sorry, but I don't know of a single usergroup that bans people that are using something else than Amiga in Sweden. I think this picture that has been portrayed here.. well, it's not the picture I have of it.
Well, It's not like it's a big sign hanging over doors that reads "pegasos users will get shot" but you don't exactly get welcomed with open arms, right? I think it's true to say that the conflict has caused a lot of anger and dissapointment. If you are an ACG member, wouldn't you say that AmiGbg was an event that supported A-inc and not Genesis? Or would you say that both plattforms were promoted equally, and equally welcome? Was Genesis even invited? No, I feel it's safe to say that MorphOS i generally frowned upon, even by a lot of members of your own local club. Besides, It was quite clear that pegasos user clubs were not welcome when the different amiga clubs sought to unite under one banner.
But hey, I don't say that they are wrong. You don't have to love the butterfly or the boingball. This has always been a battle of hearts, not a battle between two systems. And it will continue to be. Personally, I´m glad that there are alternatives to the x86 out there, and if everybody starts using AOS4, then thats fine. If everybody starts using MorphOS, that´s fine too. I can live with both.
What bothers me is that we, the community, have always been Amiga. Not some company. And now we get divided by some silly legal {bleep} between two companies. Well, I for one still say "We are amiga!". I hope I'm not the only one.
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crown wrote:
I'm sorry, but I don't know of a single usergroup that bans people that are using something else than Amiga in Sweden. I think this picture that has been portrayed here.. well, it's not the picture I have of it.
Well, It's not like it's a big sign hanging over doors that reads "pegasos users will get shot" but you don't exactly get welcomed with open arms, right? I think it's true to say that the conflict has caused a lot of anger and dissapointment. If you are an ACG member, wouldn't you say that AmiGbg was an event that supported A-inc and not Genesis? Or would you say that both plattforms were promoted equally, and equally welcome? Was Genesis even invited? No, I feel it's safe to say that MorphOS i generally frowned upon, even by a lot of members of your own local club. Besides, It was quite clear that pegasos user clubs were not welcome when the different amiga clubs sought to unite under one banner.
I'm one of the founders of ACG Gothenburg, yes. I think the goal of AmiGBG is on their page, it was never intended to show off all the aspects of the amiga-like systems. But anyway, I'm not here to debate that. What I do object to is what you say about usergroups. Even if members are opposed to something, that still doesn't represent the usergroup. And I stand by my comment that no usergroup today bans people using different solutions than Amiga. We have people that use Pegasos and UAE in our usergroup. I know SUA has some AROS folks.
And then about the Amiga clubs uniting, when that happened, there were no Pegasos usergroups around. What the big fight was about, iirc, was that it was to be named "usergroup of generic PPC platforms" or something to that effect when most people seemed to want something completely different (disclaimer, this is from memory).
What bothers me is that we, the community, have always been Amiga. Not some company. And now we get divided by some silly legal {bleep} between two companies. Well, I for one still say "We are amiga!". I hope I'm not the only one.
I don't think you're alone. I'm dreadfully tired of the bickerings going on. I used to be very active on the forums, nowadays I don't bother, this being an exception. I have too many other things going on in my life that I don't have the time to sit around and sulk about what platform X chose or why Y isn't supported there.
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What bothers me is that we, the community, have always been Amiga. Not some company. And now we get divided by some silly legal {bleep} between two companies. Well, I for one still say "We are amiga!". I hope I'm not the only one.
you are most definity NOT the only one!!!
this hatred of bill (fill-in-the-last-name-of-choice) has got to stop. none of the Bills (and there are three of them) speak for me, none represent ME, and none give a rats A55 about ME!
Amiga is US. I've been saying this for a long time, now and I think most of us do really feel this way.
today, before i logged on I used IFX on my WinUAE to make images for a game that is being written for MOS. eventually, it can be made for Amiga (with gfx cards or emulation).
So, where is the conflict???? only in the minds of silly, silly people.
when I 1st saw Amiga what impressed me was how i could RELATE to it - i could multitask, i could make animations, draw pictures - be an artist!!!
i didn't care about the damn custom chips (at 1st i didn't know about them). I love my Amiga 2000, but as long as my emulation and peg FEEL like my amiga, than I am a happy camper.
if i can afford an A1 and OS4, i'd love to have that too. esp if it FEELS right.
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Well, then we see things differently. When I bough my peg 1, I got mail calling me all sorts of ugly things. When I engaged in discussions and pleaded for unity and everybodys right to call themselves "amiga user" I got a similar response. Not in open discussions, but privately. I got quite tired of defending myself all the time.
Therefore, when I bought a Peg 2, I didn't say a word to anybody. And then I sold it.
And "What the big fight was about" was perhaps if the word Amiga could include "amiga-like systems" or not. Most people seems to feel it cannot. Amiga = Amiga inc and nothing else. The definition that Amiga = users is not generally accepted. Many argued that a federation should seek to be affiliated with Amiga inc.
As I previously stated, I couldn't care less of any stupid court fight, but when something that's supposed to be fun causes me great discomfort, I back off. So for now, I'll stick with my A4000.
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Great! Seems like we are at least 3 then, and probably a lot more.
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crown, you are welcome here. by me and everyone else here.
relax and enjoy yourself.
we are all amiga brothers and sisters!
and if someone bothers you, tell me and i'll slap them silly!
:lol:
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crown wrote:
Well, then we see things differently. When I bough my peg 1, I got mail calling me all sorts of ugly things. When I engaged in discussions and pleaded for unity and everybodys right to call themselves "amiga user" I got a similar response. Not in open discussions, but privately. I got quite tired of defending myself all the time.
Therefore, when I bought a Peg 2, I didn't say a word to anybody. And then I sold it.
I'm sorry to hear that, I had no idea. I wouldn't even bother, it's your life, you have the right to choose whatever you wish.
And "What the big fight was about" was perhaps if the word Amiga could include "amiga-like systems" or not. Most people seems to feel it cannot. Amiga = Amiga inc and nothing else. The definition that Amiga = users is not generally accepted. Many argued that a federation should seek to be affiliated with Amiga inc.
Ah, well I can only speak for myself and my views, and when the name was either going to be something along the lines of "Confederation of Amiga users" or "Generic PPC platforms" the choice was clear. Without Amiga in the name (cause that's the ONE thing that connects everyone AND would attract users) nothing would become of it. No one would read the name and think "hey, that sounds like it's for me!" you know? I objected strongly here and really tried to make my POV clear from all angles (disclaimer, from memory again).
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Getting back on topic... As you can see there is alot of feelings about the choice to make. I think the Amiga1 people are a bit upset us Pegasos users have such a great OS with our machine while they kjeep getting screwed and are fed the line of your OS4 will be released soon crap. I recomend you call and see if you can find a Pegasos user in the area, try the machine and it will sell itself. I thin if all these Amiga loving anti Pegasos users tried one, they would love it. I mean realy TRY it. Not just move the mouse and say, "Its not an Amiga" The truth is at present its more of an Amiga then the A1 is.
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What exactly is an Amiga?
Is it a piece of hardware, software, a combination, a name?
or what I think:
an experience.
In the 80's and 90's that experience could only be provided by a set of custom chips, a 68K CPU and OS / Software.
These days Moores law (i.e. chips get faster) means that exact same experience can be provided on completely unrelated OS / software and hardware.
In fact I can run the same software at vastly better speeds ON MY PC than any of my real Amiga's could ever get close to.
Amiga is a brand name and an experience, no one solution available today is any more valid than any other for "Amiga-ness". They all use different processors and none have the custom chips.
If you wish to argue that one solution is more valid because it contains original code then by that definition my PC is the most valid of all as it uses the original OS on UAE.
If someone thinks you're not using an Amiga argue that lot with them...
Only one can claim the brand name but the *experience* it will provide will be no better (or worse) than any other solution.
we are all amiga brothers and sisters!
Exactly.
My own experience is "talk is cheap" especially on the internet. When people get together they get on fine irrespective of "colour". As is usually the case it is a small number of idiots who cause the trouble.
If someone tries to kick someone out of a club, ask everyone in the club - in public - is this the club's policy. Then you'll get the real answer...
PS I use BeOS as my main OS on this PC because it is so Amiga like!
PS/2
I say take the yellow pill with the smiley face :-o
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@everyone
I understand your feelings. Actually I envy all you have clubs members and all. The fact is contrary here. There are no more clubs here. I only know just 1 friend who still uses an expanded A500. Heck, we struggle how alone we are but satisfied by our love for it. That's reason I joined amiga.org to meet ppl, like you guys, who still love and cherished the Amiga and what the future possibilities these new HW/SW could do. I'm still glad we're still together despite some differences. Money is no object. It's the unity. Guys, our Amiga has EVOLVED! It matured!
I hope this thread would not become a debate. It's only a 'choice' I want to make. Actually, If I could afford all I buy them all. Being with no club here is like lonely. Alone. It's hard! You guys are lucky ppl :-). The only thing that keeps me going is my love with Amiga. Nothing more. Please let's just share a unity and friendship and bring back those happy days when we first bought it and share knowledge with it.
Thanks again for your comments. I'll remember this thread as an inspiring one. Good day to all. :-D :-D :-D
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gizz72 wrote:
@everyone
I understand your feelings. Actually I envy all you have clubs members and all. The fact is contrary here. There are no more clubs here. I only know just 1 friend who still uses an expanded A500. Heck, we struggle how alone we are but satisfied by our love for it. That's reason I joined amiga.org to meet ppl, like you guys, who still love and cherished the Amiga and what the future possibilities these new HW/SW could do. I'm still glad we're still together despite some differences. Money is no object. It's the unity. Guys, our Amiga has EVOLVED! It matured!
I hope this thread would not become a debate. It's only a 'choice' I want to make. Actually, If I could afford all I buy them all. Being with no club here is like lonely. Alone. It's hard! You guys are lucky ppl :-). The only thing that keeps me going is my love with Amiga. Nothing more. Please let's just share a unity and friendship and bring back those happy days when we first bought it and share knowledge with it.
Thanks again for your comments. I'll remember this thread as an inspiring one. Good day to all. :-D :-D :-D
Well said. I honstly thing the Amiga would have become what the Pegasos is today had it not been for the way things ended up. Its a natural choice. The team behind the Pegasos is the very same team that was doing just that before it all came crashing down dont forget. The A1 is nice too, both systems have the potential to be great machines. I think it would be best for them bothe to thrive. It creates a way for one to become better then the other, only to have the other improve to overcome.
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I think you already got some reasonable advice on this thread. I will just highlight why I made my choice (forgive the slight historical paraphrasing..)
For the longest time I wanted a next gen. Amiga...I certainly had the best Classic there ever was. (Towered A4k CSPPC 233MHz/060 @ 66 and a full rack of 7 zorro cards etc.).
I pre-paid CS-NG...guess that didn't work out viz a viz P5 bankruptcy...shit happens and it was only 140EU or thereabouts. Incidentally years later I was contacted by a certain Mr Buck and a survey of people who got 'ripped off' by Phase5. I never persued it ..since it was money long gone and I knew the risks involved...rather I felt pretty bad for MR Wolf Dietrich - 140 seemned paltry compared to betting the farm and losing!
I waited and waited, all of a sudden bPlan is on the horizon....woohoo. Wait some more....all of a sudden there's a NG Amiga platform (Escena) and in parallel there's prototype version of the machine that eventually becaome the Pegasos.
Wait some more...woohoo, looks like Peg 1 specs are finalized..the A1 is in trouble but soon to be rescued by MAI/Eyetech (but no-one is sure what is going on OS wise..I guess we all assume H&P are working on it...)
At this point I still fully intend to buy both an A1 and a Pegasos...on the face of it they are both equally compelling! (and in addition run my monster A4k tower...)
Fast forward some more...
Peg 1 development seems to have hit a stumbling block (later stated as Articia S problems) and it seems someone wasn't altogether truthful about development of an OS for the Amiga One....naughty. Right here I have the first serious doubts in my mind about the short term availability of OS4.
At the same time I am using MOS beta's 0.4 and above on my classic hardware.
I order my Peg 1 in Nov of 2002, delivery is still massively delayed ... due to development of April 2. I get my Peg I in April of 2003...AOS4 is still under development...public version shown are a very rough around the edges at the same time I;m using MOS1.3 and then 1.4 ......
I'm completely sold on the Peg/MOS solution but even at this point I still intended to buy an A1...even if OS4 final release still looks to be some time away.
Quick fast forward to Oct/Nov 2003...erk, financial pressures of new house and everything kill me. Have to sell the Peg! Decide I'm no longer interested in A1 either (too much money...OS4 still nebulous and weak in public demonstrations.) Very depressing time for me!
OK...back to the future (erm, present)...I get really pissed off about the lbs of Amiga junk sitting useless in my spare room. I run $1000s of the stuff through eBay to clear debts, hopefully to realize enough money for a Peg2. You gotta realize I've had some of this stuff over 10 years, man and boy! What a heartwrenching process....anyway:
I order Peg2 in April....it's with me but 4 weeks later (production is still unfortunately in small (ish)batches) and suddenly everything seems like fun again! The speed of MOS1.4 (.2) has to be seen to be believed...meanwhile OS4 goes pre-release developer 'gold' beta....seems like I made the right choice back in 2002!
Given the choice over again today (as I was in fact given my second chance at a new machine by selling off all the stuff I loved so dearly for years) then I still make the same choice - Pegasos and MorphOS.
To make a choice, requirs you to know what you want out of a machine and it's software....for me, this is purely a hobby...sometimes fun...sometimes work but always a hobby. As a hobby there's no Return On Investment to worry about...just many hours of enjoyment with the machine/OS and participation in a great community (Pegasos always and Amiga most of the time.)
Steve :-D
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What bothers me is that we, the community, have always been Amiga. Not some company. And now we get divided by some silly legal {bleep} between two companies. Well, I for one still say "We are amiga!". I hope I'm not the only one.
What a fantastic post, crown! At last someone is talking some sense!
I think there are many of us on both sides that are happy to accept that the other side exists. However, there is a group on both sides who aren't, and are very vocal about it. I think singlehandedly these people (we all know who they are) have caused a lot of resentment on both sides which only further the divide.
When I see posts like "it's not amiga because it's not called amiga", and other stupid arguments based on religion it makes me very annoyed and I feel myself getting drawn into flaming. It is these loud fanatics that are spoiling things by drawing other people in. They give the impression that supporters of each platform foam at the mouth as much as they do, which isn't the case at all.
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If you take the blue pill, then you will wake up next to a beautiful blonde beliving whatever you want to belive.
If you choose the red pill, then we'll go to this cool rave party that we have every sunday night.