Amiga.org
The "Not Quite Amiga but still computer related category" => Alternative Operating Systems => Topic started by: McNorris on April 21, 2004, 03:40:59 AM
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What do you think?
I still mess w/ my IIc+, but a dude might want to trade a C128D for it.
What do you think had better graphics (sound is a given)?
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I thought this was a complete joke of a question until I saw who was posting it.
McNorris, let me slap you a bit.
/me slaps McNorris
Dude there is no comparison. The Apple IIc+ was pathetic in it's system specs even for it's time. The C=128D is one sweet 8bit system!
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The C128 has C64 mode to use all C64 programs.
40 colum screen mode has 320x240 resolution with 16 colors and hardware sprites. I don't remember the Apple II's exact resolutions but it was weaker and it did not have sprites. Night and day. Many well written games and demos pushed the C64 incredibly far and made it alm ost Amiga like! The C128 also had an 80 colum mode which wasn't exploited much for games but has potential. I've seen GFX programs push to to 640x480 and beyond with overscan.
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How many games actually were written for native C128 mode?
Anything to take advantage of that 2 Mhz?
I am the fourtunate owner of a mint C128, with which I play C64 games and nothing else.. I can say that even in C64 mode the graphics and particularly the sound were better then an Apple IIc.
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Can someone still get 5¼ diskettes in 2004?
You should try to port Wolf3D or Doom to the C128.
That computer had a nice case. :-o :-)
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I have doom for my hp 48gx calculator.
it's surely possible.
actually, the hp 48gx might have more horsepower than a c128.
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I saw screenshots of Doom on the Intellivision too. So there might be a chance it could be done. :-)
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The Apple IIc+ is faster - 4MHz 65C02.
The Commodore had better graphics in general, but the Apple IIc+ is no slouch. It has double-high-res mode at 140x192 in 16 colors and 560x192 in monochrome.
Commodore had better sound.
Apple had better business apps, tho the C128 could run CP/M - but I tihnk a package like AppleWorks outdid what was avail for CP/M for the avg user.
I personally find the Apple II to be more pleasant to work with than the Commodore.
blakespot
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@Blakespot
Your dead on the IIc+ specs. The monochrome double-high-res is Killer, but slow.
Nobody wrote games for it.
@all concerned
Here's the deal.
The IIc+:
4mhz
800K floppy
and I have the ultra-rare 1Meg Ram Board (why he wants it). I also have apple paddles, joystick mouse and I can get files to a Mac and straight to the Apple II via the 800K floppy.
But:
I think the crowd is right as far as games go. C64 was my third computer (1stTRS-80CoCo2w/32K, 2-Vic-20,short lived).
Most C64 games killed the AII games in sound and graphics.
Even though I have a couple of rare items for the AII I suspect my beer nights might be better served by a C128D.
(to those that used them-Those Apple II keyboards I still think are the best. I would use them today if I could)
Is a C128D rare stateside?
Now if I could find somebody to trade me my A600 setup for one I could keep both of the crusty old rigs. :) Anyone?
--(Waits for another slap from Redrumola)--
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Oh yeah, one more consideration...
How to get disk images or files from a modern computer to a C128D?
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The 128D was a cool machine! I'd choose that ANY day over a cruddy 'ol
Apple! ;-)
...and AFAIK they are somewhat rare.
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How to get disk images or files from a modern computer to a C128D?
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/5540/1541cable.htm
You may want to get a separate external drive, looks like you can copy
files directly from your PC (unless anyone knows of a better way?).
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The C128 is like 3 computers in one - C64, C128 and CPM box. It also had two processors (not dual working though) - 6510 and Z80 and it's like monster 8 bit machine, but came too late probably. The C128D desktop case is the same one used in the A1000, but in the computer world two 8 bits (or even three in this case aren't equal to one 16 bit). So I still prefer my A1000. Of course the C128 is better than the AppleIIc+ in hardware aspects, but if you look at the software base, you might find yourself more comfortable on the AppleII, except you are a hardcore gamer, who doesn't use the computers for anything else, and love to wait long diskloads (if you haven't installed fastloader). :-P
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Hmmm....it also appears that the C128D had some internal improvements
over the standard C128...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_128
http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=96
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Is a C128D rare stateside?
I don't think I'd go so far as to say rare, I'd say more like uncommon. With the internet you can find them ocasionally on eBay where they usually still sell for ~$100 or more in good condition.
The C128D had a 64K VDC(80 column vid chip) where stock flat C128s had 16K. This was a big deal for the few programs made to exploit this chip.
BTW the slap was just a joke. I respect all old school computers, just felt compelled to relive the old rivalry:-P But between the 2 I'd say the C128D is an easy choice, very easy.
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angrybrit wrote:
Can someone still get 5¼ diskettes in 2004?
Yes, but only used ones. New ones are hard to find, especially the single density ones that C64/128s require.
You should try to port Wolf3D or Doom to the C128.
There's already a simple wolfenstein clone for c64.
Varthall
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McNorris wrote:
Oh yeah, one more consideration...
How to get disk images or files from a modern computer to a C128D?
I made a cable for my 1571 drive to attach it to my old Amiga. I read and write files with Easy1541.
Varthall
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angrybrit wrote:
I saw screenshots of Doom on the Intellivision too. So there might be a chance it could be done. :-)
Are you referring to the screenshots of a Doom clone for the Atari VCS2600? They were fake.
Varthall
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How many games actually were written for native C128 mode?
Commercial games? Probably about 10 that I've heard of.
Anything to take advantage of that 2 Mhz?
AFAIK only Infocom text games.
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Well there is MOOD (http://noname.c64.org/mood/) for the C64.
(http://noname.c64.org/mood/gfx/shots/shot2.gif)
A round from the rocket launcher hits the wall and explodes on impact.
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I agree w/redrumola... 128D > Apple II/IIe/c/*
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@TheMagicM
Speaking as a Commodore fan, I still think you should check out the Apple ][ GS before including that "*" wildcard :) Sure the "classic" Apple ][ had crappy graphics compared to the C64, but the GS is something special :)
I'd say Apple ][ GS > 128D > Apple ][/e/c. Although the 128D has a shedload more software ;)
Some Apple ][ GS demos: (a good emulator for windows is KEGS)
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=11790
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=11796
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=11792
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=11788
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=11793
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=11881
http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=11789
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xeron:
no, I meant > all the IIe/c/+ versions...
I remember in jr. high the c64 vs. Apple IIe/c wars... hehehe
btw, thanks for the links.. I've *never* used a GS, but those gfx look awesome! What are the specs on the GS ?
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The GS rather compares to the Amiga.
It was a freaky weirdo, some inbetween machine when Apple didnt want to let go fo the II series and on the other side wanted to go ahead.
The Apple II has the problem of sound... does anyone actually own a mockingboard??
And, some bizarre shifts in the display. You get some pink around sprites and moving objects. When I used an emulator recently I suddenly remembered that crappy display.
The emulator programmer said "its not a bug, its a feature" lol
I must admit, the C128D was born dead as well as the GS though. CBM wanted to make a better machine but were trapped with the success of the C64 and didnt want to let get of that userbase. They wanted to offer a "natural" upgrade.
Have fun,
McTrinsic
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The 128D was a nice machine, I had one. I did some programming in 128 mode which was a lot better than the c64 mode. There should have been more 128 support software. Developers could have released games and apps that would use 128 features if detected. It was like the amiga scene in the early 90's, having a 3000 or 4000 but having to run (a500) software that didn't take use the extra cpu and graphic power.
The 128D was even better than the original 128. The separate keyboard and desktop case made it more comfortable to use.
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The AppleIIGS is an unique machine, because it have backwards compatibility with the 8 bits Apples, thanks to the 65816 CPU, and it's still 16 bit and there was no split between the dudes with the 8 bit toys and the 16 bit "monsters" at the time. I can't imagine what it could have been if the Amiga was designed to be compatible with the C64 at first place.
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I just pulled mu C128 out of storage this weekend and was delighted to see that all my old disks seem to still work.
It was amusing to see my son get impatient waiting for the games to load. He was convinced that it couldn't possibly take that long for a game to load. :lol:
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I don't know if anyone else followed the links from Xeron's post, but if you're interested in seeing what the GS can do and are using a browser capable of ActiveX, check out FTA (http://www.freetoolsassociation.com/). They've got an ActiveX GS emulator with some demos and games to check out. Pretty impressive stuff imo.
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@Madgun68
Ha ha, I still have my Apple IIgs too. Though I had to replace the original keyboard with one of the Macintosh ones, it was really freaky that it could use so much of the ADB stuff.
It's sitting on the shelves opposite of my 3 Amigas
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Varthall wrote:
Are you referring to the screenshots of a Doom clone for the Atari VCS2600? They were fake.
Varthall
I was referring to this: http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/intv/doom/ (http://spatula-city.org/~im14u2c/intv/doom/)
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And did you look at the bottom of the page?
The part where it reads
Note: This was an April Fool's Joke.
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Last update: Apr 1, 2002.
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McNorris wrote:
What do you think?
I still mess w/ my IIc+, but a dude might want to trade a C128D for it.
What do you think had better graphics (sound is a given)?
I own a IIc, and I would probably perfer a C128.
The graphics are better, the sound is better, the C128 has a 6502(or 6510) AND Z-80.
Better keyboard, better software...
It's really better all round.
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Yeah, your base C128 is better than your base AppleII. The GS was a nice bit of kit though, but by this time the Amiga and Mac were out in the wild.