Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: frankb on January 08, 2003, 08:10:55 AM
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A person on #amiga.org@irc.webchat.org (guest user nick) asked if anyone had Moz for the Amiga yet. I mentioned that there were a couple of false starts on the conversion, but that nothing became of it. He replied that it actually DOES exist, and is available from someone in Germany. When I querried where to get it, I got no responce.
I then proceeded on over to MozAmiga (http://mozamiga.mozdev.org/) and got the same old info thats been there forever (being ported to AmigaDE, blah blah blah).
The question is: Is Mozilla available for AmigaOS, or did my chain just get pulled? :-?
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I'd like to see it. I'd then do all my browsing with Mozilla on Amthlon. That'd be a combination to beat.
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@frankb
He's just another bull ####ter. If Mozilla existed for the Amiga, we would of heard about it by now.
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I haven't come across it. But I would like to have it. I use Mozilla with OS X, Mandrake and BeOS. No micro$ here.
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Speaking of which, Apple have just released a new open source browser called Safari fo OS-X. Seeing as its based on kHTML (part of KDE) would that be an easier port than Mozilla?
Wasnt someone around here investigating porting kHTML recently?
[edit]
And why does it bung my signature in even though I uncheck the box? Does that feature work for other people? (I'm on Opera 7b2 WinXP btw)
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Speaking of which, Apple have just released a new open source browser called Safari fo OS-X. Seeing as its based on kHTML (part of KDE) would that be an easier port than Mozilla?
From what I have can tell, the way they were able to port it was with the help of X11 for MacOS X, which is fully integrated into Aqua, and uses Quartz for rendering, so any X11 app can now use the Aqua interface.
To port it to AmigaOS would require the use of either Holger Kruse's X11 port, or Dale Luck/GFXbase's port, neither of which are available/being sold at the moment.
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I think that porting Chimera would be a good first choice for browser porting. Smaller code base breakoff from Mozilla, and Chimera is written for the Mac, so it's already written for PPC.
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charlatn00 wrote:
I think that porting Chimera would be a good first choice for browser porting. Smaller code base breakoff from Mozilla, and Chimera is written for the Mac, so it's already written for PPC.
Holger Kruse's 'nordic global' website does have a Chimera port listed as one of the clients that have already been ported to Amiga with his X11 library.
It was an alpha version...and it was a graphical web browser...how much this resembles the mac os x chimera, I have no idea.
The early chimera effort was not based on gecko, so I would be surprised if this is a gecko based product....
but its all interesting...didn't holger kruse go work for rebol...why not release this stuff into the pd, if he's not going to make any money on it....
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To port it to AmigaOS would require the use of either Holger Kruse's X11 port, or Dale Luck/GFXbase's port, neither of which are available/being sold at the moment.
Holger Kruse's X11 port, called AmiWin, is _available_. You can use it ... you just can't register it because Holger has been unresponsive to the Amiga community since he went to work at REBOL. I don't know what limitations it has without registration, but it seems to work perfectly fine for me when connecting to UNIX servers at work from my home.
Go to http://www.nordicglobal.com (http://www.nordicglobal.com) and click on the "AmiWin" link. You can download it from the "Software Download" link on the left side of the page.
@frankb,
As far as Mozilla being available _right now_ for Amiga, that user on IRC was pulling your chain.
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If I remember correctly, Chimera was ported as an X11 application for an X11 server running on the Amiga. It was not ported as an Amiga native application. And it definitely before they went gecko based!
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yes, but this is partially just semantics, if OS 4 builds in X11 into the operating system, then all those ports are 'native' amgia applications.
Its only not 'native' because its not.
But yes, I figured it was before being gecko based, that would be too easy :-)
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damn sad no one has ported it yet.... its open source and been around for a long time.. Says something about how tiny the amiga community is now :-x
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Tomas wrote:
damn sad no one has ported it yet.... its open source and been around for a long time.. Says something about how tiny the amiga community is now :-x
Maybe the size of the project is the major deterant. I can't imagine that it would be easy or fun. Recall when netscape released their source code. A few coders had a stab at an amiga version. It took days to compile. Now that the amiga has G3/G4 CPU's it might be more realistic but not until there is an OS4. AmigaDE....... hmmmmm no thanks :-D
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From the manual of the AmiWin 2.22 demo package:
Restrictions
************
The evaluation version has a number of restrictions that are not
present in the registered version:
* In the unregistered version the number of clients connected to the
X server at any time is limited to 4 (128 in the registered
version).
[...]
For me, this is the most important restriction. But there are
other X11 ports for Amiga:
- DaggeX can be found on Aminet
- AmiWin can be found at http://dspach.free.fr/ -> Check it out!
Kind regards,
Scholle
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Don't forget X11R6.3@GeekGadgets!
ftp://ftp.geekgadgets.org/pub/geekgadgets/amiga/m68k/alpha/X11/ (http://ftp://ftp.geekgadgets.org/pub/geekgadgets/amiga/m68k/alpha/X11/)
Great that GeekGadgets is up running again :-D
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frankb wrote:
From what I have can tell, the way they were able to port it was with the help of X11 for MacOS X, which is fully integrated into Aqua, and uses Quartz for rendering, so any X11 app can now use the Aqua interface.
X11 is not built into Aqua, it is a sepeate download (Apple are beta testing thier own version now) Safari does not require X11 (I'm running it now - not bad).
I've heard that kHTML would make a good port, but no-one has ever tried to port it, unlike Mozzilla or OOO which are quite clearly bad ideas that have had sevral aborted attempts.
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Holger Kruse's X11 port, called AmiWin, is _available_. You can use it ... you just can't register it because Holger has been unresponsive to the Amiga community since he went to work at REBOL. I don't know what limitations it has without registration, but it seems to work perfectly fine for me when connecting to UNIX servers at work from my home.
I know its available from his website, but the registered version is not available, which is supposed to have extended funtionality. Plus, it does need updating.
As far as Mozilla being available _right now_ for Amiga, that user on IRC was pulling your chain.
Well, your _right now_ statement make me think that you know something the rest of us don't :-). Do you know of anyone actively porting Mozilla to AmigaOS?
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X11 is not built into Aqua, it is a sepeate download (Apple are beta testing thier own version now) Safari does not require X11 (I'm running it now - not bad).
This is true. It was just announced and released at MWSF. I thought they used it to port Konquerer. Are you sure a verison isn't included with Safari?
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frankb wrote:
Do you know of anyone actively porting Mozilla to AmigaOS?
All I know of is this:
Interesting mailing list message (http://www.mozdev.org/pipermail/mozamiga/2001-July/000069.html)
Don't know whether that is still ongoing (it being a year and a half old an' all that), just noticed he works for IBM (or has an IBM email address at any rate)
Chris
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frankb wrote:
This is true. It was just announced and released at MWSF. I thought they used it to port Konquerer. Are you sure a verison isn't included with Safari?
Safari is only a 2.5MB download, and also doesn't act like an X11 program (X11 runs with the task on the dock and has control over the menu, while the applictions own menus are in the windows themselves, like XWindows and Windows programs) See the screenshot on the X11beta downloadpage on apple.com to see what I mean.
I'm actually quite impressed with it, it works quite nicely and is very fast and compact (and has a pop-up killer). The only thing I don't like is that it is styled like an "iApp" with the brushed metal and ugly buttons.
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I've only used Mozilla once and I found it very heavy!
What I would like to see is a port of Opera for Amiga!
I use Opera on Winsux and it's real fast!
It takes about 2 seconds to load the program while Mozilla takes ages to start!
see ya! whats so good about mozilla afterall ?
It seems netscape to me!
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The Amiga Mozilla port:
http://mozamiga.mozdev.org/
But, if you look at the mailing list archives, I think there's one developer in total, who's waiting for more volunteers.
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I've been using Mozilla (the current incarnation) for a few years now on win32 (I'm currently using 1.2.1, it's been a long time since I used IE for anything other than Windows Update). It does use quite a bit of memory when it's running, and CPU can jump a bit with certain operations, but I now use it for mail as well, instead of Eudora 5.1.
If anyone's interested, I've written two pages on my site in (the 'mikes' section) about my opinion on Mozilla. But I'd recommend trying 1.2.1 if you're running Windows, and a spec PC that isn't severely (eg. Pentium 1) ancient :-)
I wouldn't download Netscape 6/7, even though they are based on Mozilla, they have these stupid add-ons by AOL which are just nasty. I like Mozilla though.
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Yes mozilla is a little heavier than opera... But it start up quite fast if you put it in memory"a sec or 2", thats also only reason why IE starts up fast btw... Cause its allready lying in memory.
Though its a little bit slow to start up, its damn fast.... And yeah its open source.............. You cannot port opera, since its closed :\ And not very likely Opera themself will do an Amiga version...
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I was the one who started the mozamiga.mozdev.org thingy - I mistakenly thought that I could rally some Amiga coders to get together and bang out a DE port. At the time, Amiga OS 4 really wasn't even heard of. Now, I'd recommend an OS 4 native port of Chimera, because Amiga Inc. has changed their tune. I suppose I could update mozdev to this effect, but it just seems that no Amiga coders give enough of a rat's ass to actually spend some time on this project.
If anyone wants to take over the mozdev thing, let me know. I'm not a coder, and it would probably help if the project owner was an active coder.
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JamesR wrote:
I'm not a coder, and it would probably help if the project owner was an active coder.
ummm you think?
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JamesR wrote:
I was the one who started the mozamiga.mozdev.org thingy - I mistakenly thought that I could rally some Amiga coders to get together and bang out a DE port. At the time, Amiga OS 4 really wasn't even heard of. Now, I'd recommend an OS 4 native port of Chimera, because Amiga Inc. has changed their tune. I suppose I could update mozdev to this effect, but it just seems that no Amiga coders give enough of a rat's ass to actually spend some time on this project.
If anyone wants to take over the mozdev thing, let me know. I'm not a coder, and it would probably help if the project owner was an active coder.
There is currently a big discussion about porting Mozilla over on the Amiga-C list on yahoogroups
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/amiga-c (http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/amiga-c) If you want I can post on there about this (your site has been reffered too already)
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Tomas wrote:
Yes mozilla is a little heavier than opera... But it start up quite fast if you put it in memory"a sec or 2", thats also only reason why IE starts up fast btw... Cause its allready lying in memory.
IE starts quicker than Mozilla on the Mac so it isn't just the "built into the OS" advantage. It's probably more due to all the (unecessary) stuff built into it. I haven't tried the browser-only version yet but I imagine that would be a fair bit quicker.
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Please keep your sarcastic comments to yourself. Project managers don't necessarily need to be coders, and I was just trying to A) rally Amiga and Mozilla fans to the cause and B) create a center for the project.
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Please do. I just want to see the project take off, that's all. That was my original intent, and it's still what I want. Mozdev offers CVS and a mailing list, not to mention a bug system, and I think it would be the perfect place for the project.
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think maybe AOS could get Opera?... Opera would be great..I know its not totally free....but I'd pay for a good browser....
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I wouldn't pay for a browser. The concept, to me, is ludicrous. If we could get just A COUPLE Amiga developers to port Chimera, we wouldn't have to pay money for a Web browser. I think Opera is a joke; anyone who thinks that people will pay for a Web browser in today's market needs to go out of business pronto.
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@mips_proc
think maybe AOS could get Opera?... Opera would be great..I know its not totally free....but I'd pay for a good browser....
That's not out of the question, for evidence that there was going to be Opera for Amiga at one stage look here:
Opera newsgroups (http://www.opera.com/support/online/newsgroups/index.dml)
There is also a thread in the forums section (Support->Forums) calling for it on AmigaOS4.0. As people say though, it wouldn't be high on the list of platforms.
I thought the problem with Mozilla for AOS was that it was designed around threaded operation and partly due to the fact that an open source option would have hurt the competition at the time it was 1st mentioned? I think AOS sorely needs a browser that supports at least CSS1!