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Operating System Specific Discussions => Amiga OS => Amiga OS -- Development => Topic started by: Jose on March 30, 2004, 09:44:42 PM

Title: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: Jose on March 30, 2004, 09:44:42 PM
Hey 8-) I'm starting what I should've started at the same time I started reading some stuff about amiga asm programming, fiddling with some programs!
I found Asm-One a very cool assembler but there seem to be some bugs in it.
For example the Jmp address funtion on the monitor doesn't seem to jump to anywhere, unless I use a very small address. The Quick jump (what's the difference?) does work though...
Do you also get that problem?

The manual is also not complete wich is a very big drawback for me...

So generally, what is your opinon on this assembler, should I go with it?
It even has PPC support with Altivec support!!
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: PiR on April 01, 2004, 07:26:18 PM
Hi

I see nobody answered this till now.
I really like Asm-ONE.
I use it every time I want to check something, the OS behaviour, the idea of asm-procedure, sometimes algorithmic ideas if they are not so difficult to implement in asm. I also wrote some usefull stupid things simple enough that looking for them in the internet were more difficult and less fun then writing them. But I didn't use the monitor module much, so I cannot help ATM.
Thinking of optimizations in asm gives me clues in thinking of optimisations in higher languages. Although that can be tricky, as the compiler may use some other way of optimisations that programmer can break by doing manual modifications...
For example in the opposite direction I've learned the mechanism of jumptables by analysing complied to asm-source C 'switch-case' statement.
The best thing is to check the results. :-)

Returning to topic:
I really like Asm-ONE for it all-in-one philosophy and for not writing everything directly to the disk (I mean source to obj, obj to exe, then debugger... yuck). But this can be deadly on system hang-ups. ;-) ALWAYS REMEMBER TO SAVE THE CHANGES BEFORE TESTING. :-D

I've seen that info about PowerPC and Altivec, but I haven't tried it. Besides there is no PowerPC debugger for it, the author doesn't have PowerPC and had also no opportunity to really check this option, and the last thing is that AltiVec was developed later, and is not implemented in 603e/604 processors.

The latest version supports RTG and works with that.
It is rather stable, but I had some mysterious crashes.
It is not changed for some time, as the author is redesigning the sourcecode to remove some bugs.

Recently I discovered also AsmPRO that was developed by someone who really liked Asm-ONE. It went opensource so everyone is invited to improve it.
Here is the link if you're interested (http://home-1.tiscali.nl/~solognt/asmpro/)

Cheers
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: Jose on April 01, 2004, 09:41:55 PM
@PiR
Yes! Cool to know. It's allway encouraging to know other's good experiences with a prog. I've tried AsmPRO before but somehow I just prefer Asm-ONE. Also, If I'm not mistaken AsmPRO also hasn't been updated in a while, and since the Asm-ONE author is still working on it and correcting bugs I choose that...
I think I got at least one good idea for a few very usefull apps in the everydaylife of many people, that still haven't been explored much, even on the PC. No I'm serious;) I hope I'll have the time and patience to code them. But I'm going with this for fun only. Hope it won't take long...

Cheers
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: PiR on April 02, 2004, 10:17:11 AM
Hi again

The thing that will surprize eveybody is that here in Poland one pretty day one guy decided to publish the book describing only to the Asm-ONE (by real commercial publisher). It was available in computer bookstores few years ago. I've bought it. :-D
Unluckilly for all of you this is in Polish only. ;-)

The more strange thing is that the author didn't contact TFA while writing it. Actually it was me who informed them about such book in Poland.

However I've dug out the description of QuickJump in Monitor:

According to the book (I didn't verify it myself yet) it behaves diffenetly in data mode and dissassembly mode:

data mode:
the nearest long word at the current position is read and interpreted as pointer. Monitor then sets current address for this pointer.

dissassembly mode:
the nearest address is considered to be a command. That command had to have a value in it. That value is read and used as current address
example:
lea $12345678,a0
The address is read as $12345678, although the current address is set for 'lea', so if interpreted as in data mode it would read the 'lea' opcode (2 bytes) and fill to the longword with what is next, resulting in reading the first 2 bytes from that absolute value as the last 2 bytes of the pointer.

I hope I described it clearly.
I hope it works as it was described in the book.

Cheers
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: GreatLor on May 14, 2004, 01:59:41 PM
Quote

Hey  I'm starting what I should've started at the same time I started reading some stuff about amiga asm programming, fiddling with some programs!
I found Asm-One a very cool assembler but there seem to be some bugs in it.
For example the Jmp address funtion on the monitor doesn't seem to jump to anywhere, unless I use a very small address. The Quick jump (what's the difference?) does work though...
Do you also get that problem?

The manual is also not complete wich is a very big drawback for me...

So generally, what is your opinon on this assembler, should I go with it?
It even has PPC support with Altivec support!!


Lets see ... the debugging is NOT working for me (it just types the very first instruction followed below by all the cpu registers and last the usual prompt, as a result I CANNOT use the down-cursor-key to step through the code one instruction at a time. (maybe I'm doing something wrong ?)
Also, when I start asmOne it requests for the "SOURCES" disk, I did not obtain such a thing (files) when I downloaded the asmOne.
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: Jose on May 16, 2004, 11:44:25 PM
@GreatLor

I can't get the Debugging to work that way either.

The sources disk it asks has something to do with the preferences setting I think. You can define a disk/drawer for that I think.

The problem is that since some parts are undocumented it gets difficult to figure it out, and what doesn't seem to work might just be one not knowing how to use it.
The author refers some nasty bugs that still need correction thought...
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: xeron on May 17, 2004, 12:22:54 AM
I prefer Asm-Pro myself. I think Asm-Pro's debugger works slightly better, but both Asm-Pro and Asm-One have... interesting... quirks and bugs that you learn to live with.

Like Protracker, you actually become used to and maybe even a little fond of its quirkiness ;-)
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: Coder on May 17, 2004, 12:29:01 AM
Talking about The Flame Arrows (TFA), anyone knows what they are up to these days?

Coder
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: odin on May 17, 2004, 12:45:45 AM
ASM-One V1.49, Release Candidate 1 (released 17-02-2004)

Improving ASM One it seems? ;-)


Clickety-click (http://www.euronet.nl/users/jdm/homepage.html) for TFA homepage.
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: Coder on May 17, 2004, 01:51:50 AM
@odin

Quote
ASM-One V1.49, Release Candidate 1 (released 17-02-2004)


No idea they were still active on the Amiga. I remember them from their trip with Team Hoi to an Amiga party. I remember they had the demo (Hoi's AGA III) planned for that party but even though they coded like hell it did not get finished in time for the deadline. I think they also had someone as a guestprogrammer along called Rutger or Sander. I might check that out later on if I can find it back.

They got a link on the page to Amiga.org so I wonder if they hang out here. Would be cool. Having some real Dutch heroes amongst us. :-)

Coder
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: odin on May 17, 2004, 01:55:31 AM
Who were the guys behind Euphoria (Disposable Heroes) anyway. Wasn't Coala a Dutch development too?

Hmm....I saw Metin Seven's name somewhere recently. Dammit....now where was that.
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: GreatLor on May 17, 2004, 01:01:16 PM
@Jose, hey hows it going ? ok, I know now how to use the debugger, usage: "k [ea/label]" after assembling, but you probably knew that !

Hey Jose (and anyone else), you done any cool stuff (intro-/demo-like) ?
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: Coder on May 17, 2004, 02:59:37 PM
@odin

Quote
Who were the guys behind Euphoria (Disposable Heroes) anyway.


There was a big article about them in the Amiga Magazine. I remember Reinier van Holt as being one of them. I will try to dig up some more on them.

Quote
Hmm....I saw Metin Seven's name somewhere recently. Dammit....now where was that.


Check out www.metinseven.com for his site and check out www.klaar.com for a new company from Reinier van Vliet.

Coder
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: Jose on May 18, 2004, 04:57:55 AM
@GreatLor

Not really. I read the Copper, Playfield, Hardware control, and just part of the Blitter and Sprite stuff on the hardware manual.
I'm now fiddling around with creating images and copper effects. It's really cool :-D The problem is that I don't have much time, and I'm not gonna spent little time left of the day in front of a computer... :-(
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: GreatLor on May 19, 2004, 01:44:58 PM
I see ...

As for me, I just want to do some stuff I never had time/energy to do when I was a teenager, like: vector-stuff on asm. (A couple of years ago finally I managed to do a vector-cube in Amos - no, NOT Amos-3D), I read in a tutorial about that linear algebra was the thing to go for as square-rooting is too slow, I must say I used sguare to pull of the rotation (linear algebra was never my stronger side), is square-rooting really TOO slow copmpared to linear-algebra ?, replies from anyone with experience of vector-coding will really be appreciated !  :-)
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: GreatLor on May 21, 2004, 12:47:24 PM
Bah, noone cares it seems ...  :-D
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: Metin_7 on May 24, 2004, 11:02:57 PM
Hi guys,

Happened to stumble across this discussion. Flattering to see that my name and Team Hoi is mentioned here. If you'd like to ask me anything, just go ahead. Coala was created by Michiel den Outer. Check out his website at:

OuterspaceSoftware.com (http://www.outerspace-software.com/)

Maybe you'd like to read this article of mine about the Amiga days of Team Hoi:

- Team Hoi article at MetinSeven.com - (http://www.metinseven.com/article_hoisaga.htm)

Last but not least, Team Hoi's coder Reinier van Vliet is thinking about programming an Asm-One to C++ converter, in order to make it possible to relatively easily convert Amiga software to Windows. Sounds crazy, but according to Reinier it should be possible, just as an Amiga emulator is.

Cheers,

Metin
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: Coder on May 25, 2004, 01:57:57 PM
@Metin_7

Cool you dropped by! I really enjoyed reading your stuff in Amiga Magazine. I pretty much remember every detail from these articles. Any hope of seeing Team Hoi return with some Amiga software? That sounds cool what Reinier is planning. I am sure he can do it. He's the ultimate coding wizard. What's Ramon doing these days?

Quote
Flattering to see that my name and Team Hoi is mentioned here.


You all were my heroes!

Coder
p.s. Is "All you need is Love" still your favourite program? :-)
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: Metin_7 on May 25, 2004, 08:07:08 PM
Hoi Coder! :)

How very flattering to read what you wrote man. It's really heart-warming and rewarding to realize that a number of people still remember us so well. It's particularly incredible that you still remember that I used to watch the All You Need is Love TV-show, from that one personal column about me that was only printed in one of the many Amiga Magazines.

As a matter of fact I'd still like the show if it was broadcast right now, but not as much as I used to like it I guess.

I guess brand new Amiga software from Team Hoi will not be realized anymore, but the Asm-One to C++ converter idea was conceived because we'd love to have a real good dedicated emulation of our Hoi game for Windows. And if it turns out to work properly, then we can also convert our other games and demos, like Clockwiser etc., and of course share the converter with other Amiga freaks, so a lot of classic stuff can gloriously be reincarnated for Windows.

Ramon is working as a freelance musician at a commercial music studio in Huizen (Netherlands). He'll be visiting me tomorrow evening.

A question to you, Coder. Do you really live/work in Bangkok? If so, could you please send me an e-mail from your active e-mail address, so I can reply to you (you can find my e-mail address at SevensHeaven.nl (http://www.sevensheaven.nl))? Thanks in advance.

Cheers!

Metin
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: Coder on May 25, 2004, 08:46:51 PM
@Metin_7

Quote
It's particularly incredible that you still remember that I used to watch the All You Need is Love TV-show, from that one personal column about me that was only printed in one of the many Amiga Magazines.


I remember so many details it even becomes scary. :-P
(walking in a magic forest but only if it was drawn by you in DPaint) I told you, scary. :-P

Quote
Ramon is working as a freelance musician at a commercial music studio in Huizen (Netherlands). He'll be visiting me tomorrow evening.


Nice to hear that.

Quote
I guess brand new Amiga software from Team Hoi will not be realized anymore, but the Asm-One to C++ converter idea was conceived because we'd love to have a real good dedicated emulation of our Hoi game for Windows. And if it turns out to work properly, then we can also convert our other games and demos, like Clockwiser etc., and of course share the converter with other Amiga freaks, so a lot of classic stuff can gloriously be reincarnated for Windows.


That would be indeed cool. Also MoonChild was really GREAT! I think it was the only game on the PC I like.

Quote
A question to you, Coder. Do you really live/work in Bangkok? If so, could you please send me an e-mail from your active e-mail address, so I can reply to you (you can find my e-mail address at SevensHeaven.nl)? Thanks in advance.


Done!

Coder
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: odin on May 25, 2004, 09:51:36 PM
W00t!

Welcome to a.org M7!  :-D
Title: Re: Anyone using Asm-One?
Post by: Jose on May 25, 2004, 10:01:31 PM
Windows?! You traitors :-x :-D