Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: graffias79 on March 30, 2004, 03:17:06 AM
-
Hi. I have a problem with an A3000D machine here. It's running KS & WB 2.04. I think something may be wrong with Denise. I get some violent video corruption. I've seen it happen on the workbench which is 640x200 2-Bit, DPaint 640x200 3-bit mode, and some very nasty corruption in HAM mode. My question was can the A3000 use an OCS Denise or will the A3000 ROM gag on it? I have an old half-dead A2000 here that I could turn into a parts mule for other Amigas. Maybe Denise is not at fault at all now that I think about it, could it be a chipram issue? I guess another question is did the A3000 ever come with only 1MB of chipram? (mine is an A3000UX / Superkickstart 2.04) (Yes I took the AMIX HDD out of the computer :-) )
Please and thank you for any insight!
-Jamie
Also thought I might add that I doubt it is a heat issue because it happens even when the computer has just been turned on (maybe 25 seconds to boot and another 10-15 to load DPaint)
-
A3000 UX ?? UX?? you lucky stiff
my A3000/25 has been sent to the parts-mule closet,
since the day the battery & I killed it.
I havent cannibalized it for anything
gotta cousin lives in chicago
hmmm
-
What does the corruption look like?
It's possible that it's an overheated U202/U203 PAL. This is a common problem for A3000s and is a cheap fix. Mine manifested itself as random dots that speckled the screen and got worse with disk activity and mouse movements. Others have reported horizontal lines, corrupted gadgets, etc.
Also, yes, the Amiga 3000 did come as 1M CHIP. My 030/25 came with 1M CHIP/1M FAST. I swapped the 1M FAST to CHIP and replaced it with 8M FAST with the first paycheck after I bought the thing.
-
Hmm it looks weird like in DPaint when i have a stamp and i click to stamp it down (god i sound smart here lol) like the stamp is smeared horizontally as if the horizontal hold dial on an old tv has had it's influence on it. and yes gadget corruption as well, icons come up sometimes as digital noise (if that makes sense) left or right sides of windows look like $hit in workbench. it was worse during the os install.
I removed the battery when I got it, there was a small circle of destruction around one pole of the battery but it did not cover any of the traces just solid lighter green on the mb.
Other than that the cpu seems to run ok, everything else is alright, even the scandoubler circuitry seems to be fine
Thanks
-Jamie
-
Also, yes, the Amiga 3000 did come as 1M CHIP. My 030/25 came with 1M CHIP/1M FAST. I swapped the 1M FAST to CHIP and replaced it with 8M FAST with the first paycheck after I bought the thing.
Oooh this one has 1MB chip and 8MB fast. Please tell me how to make one more MB chip! I'll be honest, I'm pretty new to the big box amigas I cut my teeth on an A500 and A1200 :-) My 500 I converted to 2MB chip with a fat agnus replacement board, and my 1200... aaah my beautiful 1200... :-) I love that computer hehe.. oops anyway my 3000 is kinda plain jane. All the goodies are in the 3000T. I do have an emplant board in the 3000D but I am not a mac person at all so I want someone else to have it lol. Unfortunately I do not have any install disks or anything for it.
-Jamie
-
To get the full 2Mb chip mem, you need to populate all the chip mem sockets U259-U274 with the correct devices, I think they're 128kx8 bit DRAM. Probably just get more of whatever's currently fitted to fill the empty sockets.
As for the video problem.
If it's a permanent thing, and you're using the scandoubler and SVGA port, then adjust the 20 turn trimp pot in the hole for minimum video distortion. You might have to use a plastic or ceramic tuning tool.
If it's an intermittent problem, try pressing down on the socketed devices in the video section and see if the image alters. It could be intermittent problems with IC sockets, or corrosion in the U450 (Denise) socket. As it's right beside the RTC battery, it gets easily corroded.
If there is a socket problem, remove it and solder the device directly into the motherboard. Those kind of IC sockets cause nothing but trouble.
Could also be a problem with the PAL logic devices as mentioned in one of the other posts, but it's best to replace them to check this.
And as far as I know, ECS Denise is pin compatible with the OCS one.
A3000s with a green drive LED were usually ECS and ones with the red LED were usually OCS.
-
I don't think there were any OCS Amiga 3000s. From what I remember, the ECS chipset was part of the sales-pitch for an A3000.
-
Hi
@graffias79
> My question was can the A3000 use an OCS Denise or will the A3000 ROM gag on it?
> I have an old half-dead A2000 here that I could turn into a parts mule for other Amigas.
I think the A3000 would run with an OCS Denise, but you should really replace it with an ECS Denise. There are *NEW* ECS Denise chips available periodical at eBay -- here in Germany (http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2797254930&category=8142) -- for only a few Euros. Perhaps the seller is willed to send it to your country, if you ask him before buying it ?
Noster
-
@Steady:
You could be right, I'm probably thinking of the A2000s which were OCS then later ECS in about 1988/89. The colour of the drive LED gave you an idea which was which (red=OCS, green=ECS).
BTW, older A3000s might need Agnus upgraded to a 8372B in order to address 2Mb chip mem.
-
BTW, older A3000s might need Agnus upgraded to a 8372B in order to address 2Mb chip mem.
I've never seen an A3000 with anything other than an 8372B, and I have an original model with the Superkickstart here, so it seems like if any would have been sent that way, it would have been an early one. AFAIK, all A3000s shipped with full ECS and the 2meg Agnus version.
The models that didn't have 2 megs of CHIP ram had 8 256x4 DIPs for CHIP ram (left side of the motherboard), and 8 256x4 DIPS for FAST ram (far right side of the motherboard, below the empty ZIP sockets). Moving those 8 DIPs from the right side sockets to the empty ones on the left (next to the current CHIP RAM) gives 2 megs CHIP RAM, and SHOULD have been the standard procedure whenever adding ZIP ram to the 3000. If those DIPs are totally missing from your A3000, you'll need to find 8 matched DIPs of the same or compatible part # as your CHIP ram.
-
As for the video problem.
If it's a permanent thing, and you're using the scandoubler and SVGA port, then adjust the 20 turn trimp pot in the hole for minimum video distortion. You might have to use a plastic or ceramic tuning tool.
If it's an intermittent problem, try pressing down on the socketed devices in the video section and see if the image alters. It could be intermittent problems with IC sockets, or corrosion in the U450 (Denise) socket. As it's right beside the RTC battery, it gets easily corroded.
If there is a socket problem, remove it and solder the device directly into the motherboard. Those kind of IC sockets cause nothing but trouble.
Could also be a problem with the PAL logic devices as mentioned in one of the other posts, but it's best to replace them to check this.
And as far as I know, ECS Denise is pin compatible with the OCS one.
A3000s with a green drive LED were usually ECS and ones with the red LED were usually OCS.
Mine has a green LED but strangely the HDD LED never lights up. The little PCB on which the LEDs exist does not look damaged or cracked either, just slightly flexed where it's screwed in. Anyway off subject. I don't think its the scandoubler at all since on DPaint, if the video corruption occurs on the screen it becomes part of the picture. I can select and stamp the glitches as if I drew them myself which is what makes me suspect chipram.
I've taken her apart and reseated all the chips (paying special attention to denise) to no avail. Where can I find some program assistance logic chips? Are they a standard part or special for the Amiga?
I would still like to try my OCS Denise, but I don't want to cook anything!
Oh and if I remember right, Agnus was version 8372B.
Thanks
-Jamie
-
Castellen wrote:
As for the video problem.
If it's a permanent thing, and you're using the scandoubler and SVGA port, then adjust the 20 turn trimp pot in the hole for minimum video distortion. You might have to use a plastic or ceramic tuning tool.
This will usually result in an unstable picture, not just graphical glitches. Also, the original tool is plastic with a metal tip.
I'd reinforce the pressing down on all of the socketted chips.
-
Hi
@graffias79
Are you shure that your problem isn't the result of an amok-running program ?
Have you the same troubles if you boot ypour system using a floppy and start DPaint from floppy ?
Noster
-
Noster wrote:
Hi
@graffias79
Are you shure that your problem isn't the result of an amok-running program ?
Have you the same troubles if you boot ypour system using a floppy and start DPaint from floppy ?
Noster
Hello,
The corruption existed booting from the install disk for OS 2.04 as well, and DPaint is the only program I have installed on the machine so far. not even a screen blanker or any commodities.
-Jamie
-
Hi
@graffias79
I would take a magnifying glass and have a closer look at the pins of the RAM-chips. I've bought a used A3000T, and if I had a look at the RAM's of the chip-RAM (the A3000T uses ZIP-RAMs for both chip and fast-ram) I found two chips, where the pins where bent and doesn't stick in the sockets. Nevertheless the system was running (?!) without an obvious fault, but maybe your problem is the result of such a misplaced chip ?
Noster
-
Ok just for S&G I transplanted a standard OCS Denise chip into the A3000. For all practical purposes it worked just fine, except no ECS modes (of course). Unfortunately the machine is still flaky. It seems to bring out the worst in HAM mode. I checked the PAL chips, neither seemed very warm, the chipram is soldered on to the motherboard (theres an equal ammount of unpopulated dip sockets next to it I assume for 1 more MB of chipram). I'm begining to suspect the power supply at this point. :-( Oh well Thanks for all the help anyway.
-
graffias79 wrote:
Mine has a green LED but strangely the HDD LED never lights up. The little PCB on which the LEDs exist does not look damaged or cracked either, just slightly flexed where it's screwed in.
>> These LEDs die constantly. My power LED on my A3000D has been dead for eons, yet my HD LED works great.
I don't think its the scandoubler at all since on DPaint, if the video corruption occurs on the screen it becomes part of the picture. I can select and stamp the glitches as if I drew them myself which is what makes me suspect chipram.
Could be chip mem, also, I may be mistaken, doesn't the Agnus handle graphics operations? If it's not the chip memory, could the Agnus be at fault?
I would still like to try my OCS Denise, but I don't want to cook anything!
I have a set of chips from what I believe is an A500 ECS system that I pulled just recently. I don't know if they are the same as those used in the A3000 but, I would be willing to drop them in the mail to you if you need them. I have a Denise, Gary, Paula, both CIA's.
Is there a way to tell if the chips are ECS or not?
Thanks,
Mike
-
Is there a way to tell if the chips are ECS or not?
But of course....
8362 is an OCS Denise
R5=A1000 R6-8=A500/2000/CDTV
8373 is an ECS Denise
R3=A500+/A3000 R4=A500+/A600
(I believe an 8373 R4 should also work in an A3000 with no problem, as they both work in the A500+...)
Source: vgr.com's Amiga chip directory (http://vgr.com/tbocl/MAIN.html)
Gary looks to be incompatible between the A500 and A3000, as also, I believe the CIAs might be (they're not listed in VGR.com, though.)