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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Marketplace => Topic started by: McTrinsic on March 16, 2004, 05:15:24 PM
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Hi all,
this might be the wrong part of the forum, if so, my apologizes.
I just had a nice talk with one of the people from katodev.de about their Clockport-Adaptor for the Amigas A500, A1000, A2000 and CDTV.
There is a realistic chance for a mini-run of the boards so which you could populate by yourself or perhaps even for a small prototype-production run. The known prototype works reportedly very well.
I'm talking about getting 15 people interested in this so that it will happen. The price for the circuit board alone would be around 25 Euros.
If you actually ARE interested, please send a small eMail to either sales@katodev.de or info@katodev.de, telling them so.
Basically they are out of business, yes, but they still have a heart for the Amiga and its fans, and they still cling to their favourite range of computers.
Have fun,
McTrinsic
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Hi,
is the adaptor not usable in an A3000(T) ?
Noster
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It requires an 68000 - Socket.
No 3000(T).
Have fun,
McTrinsic
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This might be interesting, if I could get USB (subway) on my A500 too.. that would be swell :-D
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Hmmmm, this is interesting is there anywhere one can get a list of all the devices that will fit on a clockport. I think there's more than a few. :-o
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In your discussions maybe you should mention they could contact us. We may be interested in a volume purchase if these things really work.
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@redrumloa :-)
Q> if these things really work.
It works! really :-)
Just have a look at the Amiga 600 extreme customize page, there is one prototype in it stuffed with a Subway USB board :-)
@Noster :-)
For the A3000/T you can use a XSurf board that have two A1200 compatible clockports on it :-)
BTW, if it is produced, I will take ten units at least :-)
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McTrinsic wrote:
It requires an 68000 - Socket.
No 3000(T).
Have fun,
McTrinsic
Ah, so it sits in the 68k CPU socket?
Does this mean that I wouldn't be able to use my 030 accelerator that also sits in the A500's CPU socket?
If I can use both, you can count me in!
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Hehe! I'd bet that someone will try to connect a USB-SoundBlaster to a CDTV! :-) Too bad I haven't got any real-life miggies left...
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Ok,
to clarify a few things:
There has been one prototype sold so far. The other one belongs to the developer.
The one sold works very well with a Melody 1200 Pro.
They work with an accelerator installed, actually were DESIGNED to do so.
They do work with a Silver Surfer and a Twister 1200 daisy-chained to the Melody 1200-clockport, giving an extremely fast serial connection for the named Amigas, and yes that does include an A500. So I don't see a reason why the Subway module wont work. Can't guarantee, though.
If you want this thing done, please contact the developers:
sales@katodev.de or
Info@katodev.de .
Redrum, please contact them on your own for wholesaler or licence info. If you want me to make a phone call, let me know the details by eMail.
Have fun,
McTrinsic
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McTrinsic wrote:
They work with an accelerator installed, actually were DESIGNED to do so.
So they will PHYSICALLY fit between the accelerator and CPU socket?
I have a MegaMidgetRacer (http://amiga-hardware.com/megamid.html)
Cheers
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While we're at it, can we get the Viper 530 back into production :-D
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Yes, it will physically fit there.
Plus, you will have to throw a wire to one of the CIAs.
Why don't you have a look at the thing, there is a picture of it at http://www.katodev.de , they offer an english site as well.
Have fun,
McTrinsic
P.S.: Don't forget to write them, mates! ;)
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I emailed them only today, did anyone else, and did they get any reply?
Regards
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aardvark wrote:
is there anywhere one can get a list of all the devices that will fit on a clockport.
Here they are:
http://amiga.resource.cx/exp/search.pl?intf=clk
Alex
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> So I don't see a reason why the Subway module wont work. Can't guarantee, though.
The Subway driver (and Poseidon) needs at least a MC68020 to operate, so you will need an accelerator board also on-top of the clockport adapter. The A600 version has a specially compiled version of the subwayusb.device which can be obtained from me directly.
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Just have a look at the Amiga 600 extreme customize page, there is one prototype in it stuffed with a Subway USB board
The A600 CPU is different from the A500/1000/2000/CDTV. I hope this fits with the A630 as in the http://www.amiga600.de
________
ZOLOFT PRILOSEC NEXIUM (http://classactionsettlements.org/)
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No, as much as I understand it won't fit, because the 68k is soldered onto the mainboard.
You need to plug the 68k out, put the Clockport adaptor in, and then plug your accelerator or the 68k on top of it.
Btw, don't worry if they don't reply, because they won't.
I will call them this week again.
Have fun,
McTrinsic
P.S.: Redrum, did you get any answer, though?
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Well also, isn't the 68000 in the A600 a more recent 'square' 68000, rather than the rectangular ones as found in the A500 etc? i.e. they are not (physically) pin compatible
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Noster wrote:
Hi,
is the adaptor not usable in an A3000(T) ?
Noster
Could someone build an adaptor to fit the CPU slot, or one of the Zorro slots? That would provide the 68K signals.
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CDTV Clockport info with layout: http://www.katodev.de/deutsch/cdtvclock.html (http://www.katodev.de/deutsch/cdtvclock.html)
:-D
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To the best of my knowledge, the Clockport adaptor available for the A600 is something completely different. I think Individual Computers developed it as an adaptor for the Silver Surfer. It clips over Gayle, not the 68000.
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@Matt_H:
> To the best of my knowledge, the Clockport adaptor available for the A600 is something completely different.
You're right, forget what I wrote about the special a600 version, it should run with the standard drivers (still, Poseidon needs 68020+ to run).
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*bump*
Well, any news? I am interested myself, and I emailed them about it. Don't want this to be forgotten, as it will allow my uber-A500 to become even better :-)
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That's a very simple circuit by the looks of it, why not DIY, or let the PCB be made at your local electronics store if you're scared of soldering irons :-).
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Forgive me, but what circuit, where?
When I look at the site, I see something about CDTV clockport adaptors, SIMMfonie, Melody 1200 and Twister 1200, but nothing about clockport adaptors for the A500 (or is it just the same as the CDTV one?). Or is the fact that I can't spot the circuit diagram due to my lack of German?
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Here (http://www.katodev.de/deutsch/cdtvclock.html)
Right at the bottom, below the parts listing
"Layouts (Blick von oben!):
Bestückung (PS-Datei zeigt 2 Platinen)"
At least I assume that's a postscript file of the PCB(s), I can't seem to open the postscript file here.
Apparently they also sell a complete DIY-kit since feb.
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No, it's not the schematic design, but a layout without the traces. You'll need something like Acrobat Distiller to convert it into a PDF file. I could submit a PNG image to the A.org photo album if you want :-)
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Hi,
Just a few things to note. The postscript file does not have details of drill hole diameters, important to most PCB houses!
Not sure if Paintshop pro has screwed up but I do not see any tracking in the PS file!
A shame as it would only cost about 10 euros each to get some PCBs made.
I google translated the page (I only speak a little german) and found that this adapter may not work with all clockport cards due to timing issues. It will work with Kato development boards though, be warned.
The design simply adds an address decoder to decode addresses around $D80000 and provide the correct strobe signals.
Anyone had any luck with Kato Developments about kits?
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@Stedy,
It latches the lower 8 data lines too, not 100% sure if it`s really needed though.
BTW, I was fiddling about with clockports the other day, and figured out there`s enough space within it`s 64Kb memory space to have 1024 clockports... (2^10 cos there`s 10 unused address bits within the 64Kb)
I wonder how much discount Jens will do on 1000 silver surfers ?
OK, bandwidth would suffer a bit, but it`d be fun to make an adapter that size :lol:
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Sorry, kits are not available.
They were planned for February.
February 2000, that is.
Sorry for not updating you, but I have recently become father so I'm a bit distracted.
I am "working on them" to get some things done.
They do not respond to emails, but they read them, so keep them telling youre interested.
I am after them by phone :)
And yes, that PCB is a very very simple one with very vew logic on it.
But the *.ps shows only the board itself I thing, it's almost useless.
I'll get back on this topic.
Have fun,
McTrinsic
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Hi
for those of you, that wishes to have a clockport in an A2K (or A3K like me), there is a relative cheap method to get one:
I've been nerved by the two reboots of my A3000T at every cold-start, so I decided to buy a "Kickflash OS4" from Individual Computers. I've ordered it last Tuesday evening and half an hour ago it arrives.
This card works in every Amiga with Zorro-II and has a clockport. The documentation says that drivers for Silversurfer, VarIO or Delfina will be available soon :-D
I will go offline and open my case and test it, lets see if we could speed-up system-start :-)
And than lets have a look to eBay, maybe someone want's to sell his Delfina...
Noster
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Hi McTrinsic,
Sorry for not updating you, but I have recently become father so I'm a bit distracted.
Hey no worries and congratulations :-)
If I designed my own variant of this adapter and got some PCBs made, what would the interest be in kits of PCBs?
Earliest I could make prototypes would be mid May 2004.
For quantities of 5 PCBs or more they cost around 10 euro each.
bye,
Ian
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Id take one - but only the complete adaptor, i cant solder myself.
Have fun,
McTrinsic
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Ok, I got few news.
Looks like they might have a few prototypes left, can't say the actual number but maybe around two or so. Might be not working, one of them is going to check them.
The schematics have still to be dug out of the belly of the computer system of one of them. But he is working on it, so in case the schematics (circuit etc.) appear, you will be informed.
We shall then see whats possible :)
Haver fun,
McTrinsic
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Hi
The schematics have still to be dug out of the belly of the computer system of one of them. But he is working on it, so in case the schematics (circuit etc.) appear, you will be informed.
I'd be interested to see the schematics. One of the parts they used a 74F521, is tricky and expensive to get hold off. A redesign might be possible.
Keep us informed.
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Stedy wrote:
One of the parts they used a 74F521, is tricky and expensive to get hold off. A redesign might be possible.
Farnell have them for 50p each..
74F521PC (http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/catalog/viewproductdetails.jsp?prodId=376474)
But I know what you mean,
You could replace the 521 comparator and the NOR gates with 1 GAL/PAL chip.
Should even be enough spare logic to decode the address space and generate 4x Spare_CS and have 4 clockports :-)
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Sorry for the thread necromancy!
Does anyone know the status of the Clockport Adapter? I recently got a CDTV and would really appreciate a faster connect than the 19200 bps (or whatever the maximum is using BaudBandit.device &c). I have emailed Katodev but haven't received any response.
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'thread necromancy', heh, I like that
And that's precisely what I'm doing, as I would like to know.
Perhaps McTrinsic's littl'n is keeping him busy?
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:bump:
Did anyone get any further? :-)
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Sorry for my lack of technical knowledge, but can´t you just plug a Zorro card like Xsurf into the side of the A500 (without external casing of course) and use the clockport on that card :-?
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Effy wrote:
Sorry for my lack of technical knowledge, but can´t you just plug a Zorro card like Xsurf into the side of the A500 (without external casing of course) and use the clockport on that card :-?
In theory, yes.
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So why waiting for a special clockport adapter for the A500/2000 if you can just plug an existing Zorro2 Xsurf(2) with an on board clockport that can allow you to use a USB card ??? Okay, it does leave the question open about where to put the usb connector because there is no external case ... but the same problem occurs when you put the clockport adapter inside the A500/A2000 ...
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Effy wrote:
So why waiting for a special clockport adapter for the A500/2000 if you can just plug an existing Zorro2 Xsurf(2) with an on board clockport that can allow you to use a USB card ??? Okay, it does leave the question open about where to put the usb connector because there is no external case ... but the same problem occurs when you put the clockport adapter inside the A500/A2000 ...
Errr...
Why do you think?
Firstly, how much does a X-surf II cost?
Secondly, one would need an adapter to use a Zorro II card with the A500, since it does not have a standard Zorro slot - and there would be no case (although I guess one could be made)
Thirdly, most A500 users already have something in the 86-pin expansion slot at the side, such as a hard drive.
Find me a reasonably priced X-surf II, and then maybe I would take this route! At the end of the day, the A500 is purely a hobby machine, and I don't want to shell out huge amounts of money...I reserve that for my A4000 and A1200! :lol:
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Sorry folks,
I am after them, but they evade me ;)
Seriously, I am in contact with one of the developers, but he is extremely busy at work and is flooded with spam.
So I am having a hard time getting through to him and get anywhere.
And another one is having the scematics.
So this really takes time, especially since I dont have much of it by myself with my little great kids.
Its so much more fun with them instead of circuits...
Anyway, I too want one of these simply because I dont want to spoil the design of the A1000 case.
I want it all in one :)
Have fun,
McTrinsic
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This design should work!!
http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Downloads/CDTV_clockport.png (http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Downloads/CDTV_clockport.png)
I adapted what I thought was the original design, to add an additional clockport, so this design has 2 clockports. I have not done a PCB layout yet!
TTFN
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cool cool
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I'd buy one!!
McTrinsic
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Nice one Ian, looks cleaner than the original version.
BTW, since you`re breaking out signals from the CPU socket, how about merging in the 14Mhz CPU hack ?
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To all:
What would be the interest if I got a small batch of boards made?
If I did make some PCBs, could someone sell me a cheap A500? :-D
I need to correct an error in my additional clockport address decoding but that is trivial.
to Doobrey:
PCB space with the old fashioned DIP chips is a problem with the 14 MHz hack. Going to SMT parts would help I suppose, I was trying to follow the spirit of the original design though so no SMT. I'll try laying out this PCB first!
TTFN
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Hi
I'd probably be interested in two - what is the cost likely to be?
As far as the A500 goes, I don't have one spare, sorry, but plenty turn up on ebay all the time.
The only prohibitive thing is the cost of sending it, what with the heavy PSU an' all. So in any case, you'll have to look out for one locally, otherwise it'll cost more to send than the 'puter itself
Regards
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Hi, as this project seems to get ahead - if anyone is interested in getting his old Amiga upgraded with a SUBWAY USB controller (with this clockport adapter, or on a 1200 clockport, or a Zorro based clock port), please let me know by mail (mboehmere3b.de).
I may consider another production run of SUBWAY USB controller boards, if enough requests are there.
Thanks, Michael Boehmer
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Ball park pricing,
For quantities of 20+ PCBs they cost 17 Euro/11.3GBP/20 USD each. I may be able to lower this.
Components are about 5 Euro/3.35 GBP/6.1USD in total.
So a kit is currently 22 Euro/14.65 GBP or 26.1 USD, approximately. Prices subject to change.
I am getting some manufacturing quotes for another project of mine soon, so I will look into the costs of assembled PCBs.
I would need to build a prototype first of course, my current batch of designs (5 to date) will be made mid-september, time and travel allowing.
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As I said,
I'd buy one.
But I won't have much options in making the kit a complete board... what would an all-in-one-package cost??
Anyway... won't we need a wire to a Gary or any other chip for an interrupt? Would we need rivers?
@ m boehmer
I am interested, but it depends on the function of this new clockport...
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@McTrinsic
I am looking into production costs at the moment, I'll keep you posted.
A wire is needed from the board to U8 (even CIA) to connect INT6, I know an easy way to do this.
Drivers are another issue. I am starting to talk to some existing vendors about their products. If necessary, I can make developer boards available.
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I'm interested in buying at least one, almost certainly two. I'd prefer a complete board with already soldered components, but a kit will do if that's not possible. Just got to brush up on my soldering skills..
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Any news?
I am pretty curious ;) ...
Besides, I think the 14-MHz-hack is not a good idea here. For the use of the most Clockport-expansions, you need a 030 anyway (I think), so you need another accelerator in any case.
Plus, making this thing SMB would *require* it to be sold as a complete board and not a DIY-kit? What do you think?
P.S.: I'd gladly test one baord ;) ...
Have fun,
McTrinsic
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It doesn`t have to stop it being a DIY kit, it just depends on the size of the parts and the skill of the person building it.
Using an 030 card won`t make the clockport any faster, it`ll still be limited by the 7mhz system clock, but as others have said it depends on the drivers, since most were originally written for an 020 powered A1200 ( I think the silversurfer and subway have 68000 versions for the A600 adapter).
Wouldn`t adding a CPU card cause more problems?
If it sits in the 68k socket it`d have to have a passthrough socket for the clockport adapter to plug into (unless you stacked a couple of DIL sockets together to give clearance so the CPU card can plug into the clockport adapter).. is there enough space in an A500 to do this, or will it foul on the bottom of the keyboard?
Or do most people interested in this have the A500 in a tower?
Anyway the 14Mhz hack was just a suggestion ,but it would probably double the cost of the adapter
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Hi guys,
I have been doing some 'behind the scenes' work. Enquiring about software support, manufacturing, costing the system and financing the initial builds. I am also talking to potential distributors.
I will not be adding the 14 MHz hack. It only adds maybe 2 UKP to the price but it can cause problems with the floppy drive and a few timing issues. I don't want the hassle.
The silver-surfer will work with the 68000, need to check in relation to USB cards.
The original CDTV PCB design would not work in the A500, the clockport connector would have fouled one of the custom chips, I forget which, so it needs moving. Easy done in the CAD package.
I have had some feedback on the original design, which I need to incorporate before I finalise the PCB design. I am still aiming for mid-september for prototype PCBs. Production PCBs will be a few weeks later.
The other thing I should do, is get hold of a cheap A500+ to test the design. This is work in progress.
That's all for now.
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@Stedy
I'd buy a couple for the ole A500 if the cost is as you say. A DIY kit is fine with me.
@mboehmer_e3b
Thanks for the USB hardware; I don't have one yet but am planning on buying a ZII or clockport version real soon, especially for my digital camera USB port (Sony). Any idea if this would work?
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Hi,
I just want to double check - will it be compatible with other hackish expansions that use the 68000 socket, such as 030 accelerators and the MegAChip Agnus upgrade (this connects to pin 16 (IIRC) of the CPU - although I have a feeling this signal can be taken from elswhere...)
Regards
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Thanks for the USB hardware; I don't have one yet but am planning on buying a ZII or clockport version real soon, especially for my digital camera USB port (Sony). Any idea if this would work?
If the Sony supports Mass Storage Device or Picture Transfer Protocol standards, then you shouldn't have big problems. In case you may switch to a cheap USB card reader.
You may check your specific camera in the Linux USB devices (http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/) lists for known problems.
Michael
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@Cyberus:
It should be, working it out from some pictures of various CPU upgrades but I can not be certain at this stage. Another thing to add to my checklists!
Pin 16 of the 68000 is 0VL. What pin does the MegAchip connect to?
I may be able to add a solder pad for this.
@Argus:
I am awaiting some manufacturing quotes, no need to heat up the soldering iron just yet! :-)
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Stedy wrote:
@Cyberus:
It should be, working it out from some pictures of various CPU upgrades but I can not be certain at this stage. Another thing to add to my checklists!
Pin 16 of the 68000 is 0VL. What pin does the MegAchip connect to?
I may be able to add a solder pad for this.
pin 16 must have come from the top of my head. Its pin 48 of the 68000 it attaches to, or pin 36 of Gary.
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> The silver-surfer will work with the 68000, need to check in relation to USB cards.
Poseidon is compiled for 68020 and up. I once tried to compile it for 68000, but something didn't work and it crashed. I didn't have time to investigate. It could have been some word accesses to odd addresses as USB does not use any sort of alignment for WORDs or LONGWORDs in its data structures. So even with the clockport adapter, you'll need at least a 68020 CPU.
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I'd dtake it anyway :) .
Besides, I got a few people on Amiga-news.de interested.
Might even mean a few more people to buy a Subway!
Have fun,
McTrinsic
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Ok, time for a quick update.
I have put some information online now at:
http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/designs/designs.html (http://www.ianstedman.co.uk/Amiga/designs/designs.html)
PCB designs are in progress, time allowing. Things will slow down a bit over the next 2 weeks as I will be away on business, why design PCBs when you can drink beer :-P
I need to gauge interest in these products prior to production. I can realistically make 20 off units of the CDTV/A500 clockport adaptor and the Clockport expander. Would this be enough?
I have had about 10 emails from interested parties. If you are interested and have not contacted me already, message me via Amiga.org or email, address on my website.