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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: JimJagger on May 03, 2020, 04:40:17 PM
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Hello,
I'm new to the forums but I'm a very old friend of the Amiga. I recently broke my A1200 out from the loft and set it up to show my kids. The core machine is working fine but I'm struggling to utilise my old hard drive.
I've managed to get it to boot into Workbench but the cursor is stuck on the stopwatch, making it impossible to click on anything. It must have been 25 years since I had this running so I can't recall much about why this might be happening. Can anyone offer any tips? The core machine appears to boot up fine via the floppy drive.
https://ibb.co/z2nVCGx (https://ibb.co/z2nVCGx)
It's worth noting that I get the same issue when I tried this with an old Amiga 600 too.
My ultimate goal is to extract old DPaint artwork from the hard drive and transfer it to a PC. That will likely be my next task once I've cracked this.
Thanking you all in advance.
Cheers,
Jim
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How long did you wait? Maybe you set a ridiculus large jpeg as the wallpaper and the machine is on its knees to decode it.
Or,
as your Workbench is set to window-mode, there might be another applications window behind that awaiting your input.
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Thank you for your reply.
I waited about 5 minute initially but I've just booted it back up and will leave it a little longer, just in case. It's quite likely that the 17 year old version of me would have put an enormous image on my desktop.
I minimised the window but couldn't see anything else behind.
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There are endless possibilities, really.
When your harddrive LED is on, the computer might try to repair the harddrive (validating). Or you put something in the WBStartup folder that needs to quit first by itself.
Or you have a setup that is waiting for a specific hardware or connection ....
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Thanks again. I'll try leaving it on for a good while, just in case it is doing something in the background. I was a little nervous of doing this initially as the machine is so old. I don't suppose there is much else I can do. I was hoping I might have forgotten something obvious but I guess not.
I'm sorry I can't offer more information. I appreciate you trying to help though.
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If the machine is booting well from a Workbench floppy disk you can certainly have a peek onto the harddrive partitions, maybe you find the culprit. :)
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Welcome back!
Did you used to have other peripherals hooked up? CD drive, etc.? If those are absent now, any startup software that was expecting them might be hanging.
Others mentioned booting from floppy—the fact that that works is a good sign. You can also hold down both mouse buttons early in the boot process to get to Early Startup Control. From there, you can boot with no startup sequence to get into a command Shell. Whether via shell or floppy, you’ll want to look at the startup-sequence and user-startup scripts, along with the WBStartup drawer. I suspect the issue is in one of those locations. It might also be something in Devs:DOSDrivers. Let us know which avenue you want to investigate first and we’ll talk you through.
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That's amazing info. Thanks for your help - especially the idea of booting from the Workbench floppy. I need to get back in the loft to dig out the rest of the disks but I'll let you know how I get on.
With regards to additional hardware, I used to have a couple of chained disk drives that aren't yet hooked up. I can certainly dust those off and hook them up if you think they'll help. There's certainly no harm in trying.
I'm afraid I'm a bit out of my depth when it comes to Shell (certainly was at the time). I'll gladly brush up and investigate though. I was probably about 17 the last time I used the machine so I can't imagine I would have done anything too complex with my set up. It's quite possible that I poked around where I shouldn't have done though!
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Welcome back!
Did you used to have other peripherals hooked up? CD drive, etc.? If those are absent now, any startup software that was expecting them might be hanging.
Others mentioned booting from floppy—the fact that that works is a good sign. You can also hold down both mouse buttons early in the boot process to get to Early Startup Control. From there, you can boot with no startup sequence to get into a command Shell. Whether via shell or floppy, you’ll want to look at the startup-sequence and user-startup scripts, along with the WBStartup drawer. I suspect the issue is in one of those locations. It might also be something in Devs:DOSDrivers. Let us know which avenue you want to investigate first and we’ll talk you through.
Boot without startup-sequence, first <Assign Env: RAM:> to suppress Env requester and then <LoadWB Endcli> to launch the default Workbench which you then can check for problems.
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Boot without startup-sequence, first <Assign Env: RAM:> to suppress Env requester and then <LoadWB> to launch the default Workbench which you then can check for problems.
(Minor edit to LoadWB command)
This is a good test because if you get the stuck busy pointer (the stopwatch) it tells us that the issue is with something in WBStartup.
The absence of additional floppy drives shouldn’t cause the issue you described *unless* there was a particular disk you always had inserted in one of them and the system is trying to find something on it. Ordinarily there should be a System Request window asking for the disk in question, so the fact that there isn’t one suggests to me that this is unlikely to be the issue.
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Thanks for everyone's help so far. I finally managed to get back in the loft and dig out an old Workbench floppy. Unfortunately the WB3 disk didn't work but I managed to find a WB2 one that did and I was able to boot into Workbench without locking up. however, as soon as I tried to browse the contents of my hard drive, the stopwatch reappeared and was stuck busy again - it did show more contents than booting directly from the HD though.
Would this suggest that my hard drive is busted? Are there any tools or applications within WB that I can use to examine the drive or try to repair it? My Shell knowledge is very limited but I tried poking around with a few commands. Given that DF0: displayed the contents of my floppy drive, I tried to access CC0: but it kept returning the contents of my floppy drive. Is that normal, or does that suggest more issues with the HD?
Typing 'Info:' into shell shows a CC0: of 29k, 0 errs and a status of read/write. I'm pretty sure this drive was about 300MB
Despite my delayed response, I really appreciate the help you have provided so far - it's just hard to set aside time for personal projects with the kids off school!
Thanks,
Jim
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Revisiting your provided picture, something occured to me:
Your harddrive is not internal, but this Overdrive external connected to the PCMCIA slot!
That explaines the CC0 has 29kB in size, as the plug contains a "fake disk" with the driver.
Some of those Overdrives required an adapter to the floppy port for stealing 12V to supply the usually big harddisk. Do you have this too?
I guess the hd is indeed near death. If you really need the data on this drive you should get an adapter of some sort to create an image of it before try and rescue files.
As a replacement you would need a cheap CF card adapter and a small (1-4 GByte for example) industrial CF card that would fit internally. It will be a little bit slower than the external one but delivers more comfort. Just make sure you pick a compatible CF card.
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Thanks for the feedback. Yes, sorry if that wasn't clear about the harddrive. It plugs into the side slot and has the power adapter from the floppy drive socket into the drive itself. I'm pretty sure that part is set up correctly. Does that mean the drive would be DF1? I'm guessing so. That would make sense.
I have some old DPaint artwork on the drive that I was hoping to view and ultimately transfer to a PC. I don't need the harddrive for the Amiga itself - other than to reminisce and noodle about with.
I'm sure there have been plenty of posts of people trying to convert/transfer files so I'll have search of this site to find the best method for me.
Thanks again,
Jim
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The problem with the external harddrive is the connection. You basicly loose the easy way of transfering files via the PCMCIA to CF cards.
You can still boot a floppy disk that is almost empty and only consists of some commands (dir, copy, info) and a startup-sequence in folder s.
But without some routine this could be an annoying and frustrating experience.
It would be the best if you can get some personal help from an user nearby.
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Thank you. Unfortunately I feel I'm a little out of my depth here.
I might experiment with Amiga Explorer to explore data on floppy disks that I can copy across - https://www.amigaforever.com/ae/
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You have a problem with a stuck hard drive. That length of time dormant its not unusual. You do have some of the partitions visible which is a start. First thing to do is switch her on and boot to that screen and leave the computer on all day long. I once had a ViperCD on a 500 that took over a day and then magically OK. I have a 4000 sitting behind me here that can take all morning before the light clears and I can start using her. These drives are slow to respond.
Also at what angle were you storing the drive... vertical, upside down. Try standing it on its side and opposite to how she was stored and maybe giving the box a very gentle tap. I have had A2000s that I literally stood on end and left them running all day. I would suggest the old freezer trick which I have used to revive half a dozen stuck drives. Mostly I just tap them. Listen when she boots and see if she make a couple of high pitched noises.
You will like this ...
https://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuzzblog_september19/scuzzblogdseptember19_2201.htm
I recently had the red light of death on a PS3 that I used a hair dryer to revive, but that was a slightly differing problem.
Little tip, if you do get her working try switching her on every now and then. I have an A600 on the bench at the moment that has a slowly dying hard drive. Happens.
PS I also have a Checkmate with an external SCSI drive that leaves the screen blank for ages and the light stays on. I have to soft boot CTRL right and left Amiga at least three or four times before she shows me an error message that identifies a checksum, which I cancel and then remarkably the drive activates. I have another 600 that I have to boot hard and then twice from a soft but she always fires up. There is a trick to it. Doesn't always work but with a little TLC should be able to get her back. All is not lost.
I have a similar drive to yours.. not the same but another make. It has a drive connector at the back.
https://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuzzblog_december18/scuzzblogddecember18_2602.htm
scuzz
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Thank you for your response, and apologies for taking so long to respond. I've been dabbling on & off with the file transfer (once I acquired the cables).
I tried leaving the hard drive on for about 48 hours in total - but no luck I'm afraid. I believe the drive was store on end (with the connection pointing upwards). I'm still too afraid to give it a tap but I may resort to that next. (I love the sound of the drive in your videos from the blog - the slow whir and gentle grinding brings back so many memories.)
I'll keep pottering around with the drive but I've also started hunting for local (or not so local) Amiga groups that I can attend. I'm based in Edinburgh but have found one in Lincoln (where my mother lives). Once lockdown eases I'll aim to take my gear down there and see what we can do.
Yes, your drive is almost identical to mine. I have the same connector at the back and it plugs into the PCMCIA slot.
Thanks again!
Jim
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Hi JimJagger, great that you've still got your Amiga and it's (mostly) still working! Hours & days of fun are ahead.
I had a similar HD to that one, like Scuzz mine was branded the Archos Overdrive 35. Mine had a separate power supply which plugged into a 3-pin plug but from your description I think your power supply plugs into the floppy drive port (like on Scuzz's pictures?). This doesn't make the hard drive DF1:, it's only using that port to get power.
The way mine worked if I had to boot from floppy (I am trying to remember back about 20 years as I stopped using my Overdrive when I got a Blizzard Accelerator and they don't work together) was a small 'AQ' icon appeared on the Workbench (it's a bit strange - a small icon with no apparent name but it was cleverly blank by it being named a single space). Double-clicking this mounted the partitions which were called AQ0: and AQ1: as standard. You can run this command from shell by typing " " and hitting enter (that's quote-space-quote).
I recall that the Overdrive was very particular about it's set up and the boot partition (AQ0:) must be 8MB and AQ1: uses whatever capacity is left. I still have my boot floppy which has tools on to set up the hard drive in this way (effectively reset to default settings).
Overall the Overdrive is a case and adapter with a standard 3.5" IDE hard disk inside so if you DO need to replace the disk, then it's quite easy to do.