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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: First Ninja on January 30, 2020, 04:02:06 PM
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The Envoy (http://www.amigareport.com/ar137/p1-6.html) networking service is a good way of connecting Amiga computers in a local area network. Unlike TCP/IP, Envoy has been designed for AmigaOS from scratch allowing for tight integration with the OS environment. Developers may appreciate the streamlined SDK available on the Developer CD.
Where do you buy brand new Envoy licenses in 2020? Who owns it?
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It's distributed by Aminet benefactors Schatztruhe and costs £40 from Weird Science in the UK
I cannot verify the accuracy (or age) of this information.
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It's distributed by Aminet benefactors Schatztruhe and costs £40 from Weird Science in the UK
I cannot verify the accuracy (or age) of this information.
Schatztruhe were the last commercial distributors. I suspect they only did a single production run, which ran out even before they shut down in the early 2000s.
I got an old-stock copy from Software Hut in... 2006, maybe? Since then I’ve only seen a single copy turn up for sale.
Heinz Wrobel was maintaining the code through 2004. I don’t know if he owns/owned it, but he had it. I hope it hasn’t been lost in the intervening years.
I know I say this a lot, but I *love* Envoy. I’d really like to see it re-released, either commercially or as freeware/open source, or, better yet, integrated into the OS. It is phenomenal software, and absolutely essential if you have multiple Amigas on a LAN.
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I know I say this a lot, but I *love* Envoy. I’d really like to see it re-released, either commercially or as freeware/open source, or, better yet, integrated into the OS. It is phenomenal software, and absolutely essential if you have multiple Amigas on a LAN.
I agree with much of this, and of course it would be a huge advantage if it was open sourced so that certain components also could be implemented for other platforms and operating systems. The big gripe with Envoy used to be that it could not co-exist with TCP/IP stacks, as it grabbed the sana2 device for its own use. I know that in the latest versions this was changed, but if it was changed so that it could share the sana2 device with a TCP/IP stack, or if it can actually run as a service on top of TCP/IP, I don't know. Also there was the issue with the reversed user database, from what I recall it uses UID=0 for "nobody" and UID=65536 for its "root" equivalent user. All this could of course be fixed and worked around in a Fresh and New open source version.
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I’d really like to see it re-released, either commercially or as freeware/open source, or, better yet, integrated into the OS.
You got my vote!
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I know I say this a lot, but I *love* Envoy. I’d really like to see it re-released, either commercially or as freeware/open source, or, better yet, integrated into the OS. It is phenomenal software, and absolutely essential if you have multiple Amigas on a LAN.
I agree with much of this, and of course it would be a huge advantage if it was open sourced so that certain components also could be implemented for other platforms and operating systems.
As in OS4/MorphOS/AROS? Or as in Win/Mac/*nix? The former are obvious targets, although the existing 68K version works very well under MorphOS and OS4. There are speed/performance issues on MorphOS when using one of the wireless devices and OS4 throws up some warnings, but it does work on those platforms. I don't know the state of AROS's 68K compatibility. As to the latter platforms, a port may not be necessary. See below.
The big gripe with Envoy used to be that it could not co-exist with TCP/IP stacks, as it grabbed the sana2 device for its own use. I know that in the latest versions this was changed, but if it was changed so that it could share the sana2 device with a TCP/IP stack, or if it can actually run as a service on top of TCP/IP, I don't know.
Co-existence with another TCP/IP stack requires changing Envoy's IP and ARP packet types--easily done in the config GUI. I'm not sure which version introduced that option. But, as the documentation describes, the ideal solution would actually be to have a version bsdsocket.library running on top of Envoy as a service. (i.e., it wouldn't be Envoy running as a service on top of TCP/IP, but TCP/IP running as a service on Envoy.) That's not something that currently exists, but it's a good example of the extensibility and power offered by Envoy services.
All sorts of cool things could be done--right now--with services, like the aforementioned TCP/IP service. You could do an smb.service for cross-platform sharing (making ports to non-Amiga platforms unnecessary), you could do a remote.service for VNC-like screen sharing. Remote Shell, remote ARexx, and LAN chat utilities already exist. You might even be able to do a distributed.service to offload heavy tasks to other machines--Dave Haynie once said Commodore had a prototype of such a thing (http://aminet.net/package/docs/misc/dave).
Also there was the issue with the reversed user database, from what I recall it uses UID=0 for "nobody" and UID=65536 for its "root" equivalent user. All this could of course be fixed and worked around in a Fresh and New open source version.
That might not be necessary. Even today, a hypothetical bsdsocket.service or smb.service could include a wrapper to account for this difference. Besides, other than the conceptual idea of users/groups databases, I don't think Envoy's implementation shares anything in common with the Unix-derived databases, so some level of translation would already be needed.
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I’d really like to see it re-released, either commercially or as freeware/open source, or, better yet, integrated into the OS.
You got my vote!
:)
I guess the point I'm trying to make in my regular Envoy love-rants is that so much could be done with the software/API/devkit, even without further development of the core package itself. It just needs to get into the hands of more users/developers!
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Well said. Envoy was great. I had version 2 in the 90s and version 3 some time around 2004
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Ok, now I have to dig my copy up and use it! I had it for 20 years and never used it to connect my Amigas.
Thanks for the great information and Merry Christmas!
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Would you mind sharing a few photos of the original package? So far I've yet to see a single photo of it.
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Ditto!
BTW...... Merry Christmas!
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The Envoy 2 packaging was literally a paper envelope with the disk inside. Think I got it from the only public distributor at the time which was the same company that sold DICE C - IAM. It's a great piece of software, totally built in the way Amiga software should be built, although ultimately a bit redundant now in a world of TCP/IP. IIRC there was some talk of envoy tunneling over TCP/IP software back in the day.
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That sounds about right. The only printed manual i ever saw is 'Appendix E' in this book:
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I think V3.0 came in a regular CD jewel case, like Schatztruhe’s other releases. Mine was just a loose CD, though. V3.0 documentation was all in AmigaGuide format, but for v2.0 VillageTronic also produced a manual that was bound in with the manual for Liana and possibly Ariadne. It’s actually much better than the “official” documentation - it fully explains how to use gateways and Realms. The official docs give only a vague overview of those features.
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Thank you everyone involved in this thread for trying to sort out what Envoy actually looks like (along with its manual). It may be in place to emphasize that Envoy features a slew of features native to AmigaOS that aren't integrated in TCP/IP (filesystem notifications comes to mind). In that sense, the two protocols are not mutually exclusive but rather complementary - and fortunately, I also recollect that Envoy 3 allows for TCP/IP tunneling.
About the Envoy 3 box, this super low-res piece of cover art is the single photo I've found of what I presume is the jewel case (provided that Envoy ships on a CD). What the back of it, along with any actual box, looks like is still a big mystery to me - so anyone with some insight is more than welcome to post a few photos here.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-3JqlRN7vbbY/Vi4WUXh-m0I/AAAAAAAAG_k/aPiexd7-IQg/s1600/envoy.jpg)
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@ First Ninja
I've had similar luck in finding what the original 3.0 retail version looked like. I think I mentioned above that I've only ever seen one other copy, on eBay at least five years ago, probably much longer. That low-res image is indeed the front, and the back looks similar to Schatztruhe's other CD-ROM releases, e.g., the Aminet CDs. Almost certainly the same designer.
I suspect it shipped as jewel case only, with no outer box or printed docs, like the Aminet CDs, and in keeping with the minimalist style of v2.0.
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Got it, and thank you for digging out a few more pieces of this jigsaw puzzle. You've likely come to the same conclusion yourself, but searching for Envoy on online market places gets complicated by the fact that there is another piece of Amiga software called "Terran Envoy (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Commodore-Amiga-Terran-Envoy-Stratagem-LCB-/174551353852?hash=item28a41249fc)".
Since Envoy reportedly runs really well on Release 4.1, here's hoping that the development will be picked up one way or another. Personally, I think a multiplayer game using the Envoy API would be something truely special.
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There have been some issues on recent versions of 4.1. It throws up some DOS warnings if you try to write to a shared volume from another machine. Dismiss the warning and all is well, but it’s annoying. I’ve tried playing with the DOS Compatibility prefs to auto ignore the issues, but no luck so far. I haven’t tried it with the new Update 2 yet. Really hoping that will resolve it...
And there are one or two games that support Envoy—see Aminet. They’re turn-based as opposed to real-time, but a game is a game :).
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All the more reason to update Envoy, then - fingers extra crossed that development will resume as soon as possible, especially with the increasing interest in the Amiga echo system in mind.
About those games, thank you for bringing it to everyone's attention. Using the search term "Envoy" currently yields 23 results (http://aminet.net/search?query=envoy) on Aminet, and one of them is clearly a game - MUI Empire (http://aminet.net/package/comm/net/EnvoyEmpire). Here's the description, for anyone interested:
This game has never been tested on a real Envoy setup. I only have one computer so please give me all the information you can if you run into a problem.
This is a beta version and you are welcome to download it and take a look. I will not take any responsibility to any damage done by this program since it is still beta.
Description: Multiplayer galactic conquest game using MUI. It can support unlimited players, unlimited planets and unlimited ship types (limited by memory). It has a sector by sector approach for the game. You can program flight plans for your fleets. It has space mines, hypergates, fuel, taxation, troops, trade and alot more.
It even comes with source code.