Amiga.org
Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga News and Community Announcements => Amiga.org site announcements => Topic started by: SilvrDrgn on March 09, 2004, 03:31:50 AM
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The official moderation policy of the site has been updated. You can find it in the "AO Information" section under the System Info menu on the left hand side of the site. For convenience, here is a direct link -
Moderation Policy (http://www.amiga.org/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=18)
The policy is a work in progress, and it contains a direct link to the Posting Guidelines page. In fact, both pages contain links to each other, respectively. The moderation policy can and probably will change in the future, with or without notice to the users (though we'll make every effort to post a notification).
Thanks for your time!
The Amiga.org Staff
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Looks like your basic "treat others how you'd like to be treated" guidelines. What changed? :-?
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neo-nazis?!? anti-semites?!? The generic rule against racism isn't enough? And what exactly are neo-nazi ideas and views these days, I haven't been keeping up with their propaganda as of late...
- Mike
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neo-nazis?!? anti-semites?!? The generic rule against racism isn't enough?
Hmmm....I was also curious as to why there are several rules
applying to the same general topic, seems a little excessive for
a computer forum (is there an excess of neo-nazi amigans out
there or something?).
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seems a little excessive for
Keep in mind please that the "Coffee House" forums get 3x the traffic of the actual computer-related forums on this site. In those forums, there are those who continually seek to express neo-nazi (and other extreme) views which a good number of our patrons find offensive.
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I am a selective reader ;-)
They can write whatever they want...
I reserve my right to READ it or NOT.
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I have read it and I agree with some of it, but not all of it. :-D
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Hey I wrote some criticism and now I'm banned from the site!!!!
How am I writing this then?
Oh ya....good point.
Well, first let me say, that Amiga.org probably should remain focused on the amiga platform of computers and not on neo-nazism. However, for having place that in the document, we are discussing that, far more than I would have expected.
The other thing is....ya'll really are NOT free speech advocates..I would just remove all the free speech talk, since its a red herring. If you can just label someone as a nazi, or as having insulted a moderator, then you really have no safeguards for speech, at all.
And maybe you won't. tis ok, its just an amiga board.
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Marktime,
What the hell are you talking about?
Wayne
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I could be wrong here, but my guess is
the stuff is specifically banned because
it is a pretty serious crime in Germany.
(At least it was when I was there.)
It may be similarly criminal to voice
neo-nazi views in other European countries
so it makes sense to me that the policy is out
of respect to our European amigans and their
laws.
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Wayne wrote:
Marktime,
What the hell are you talking about?
Wayne
The document mentions the subject of free speech, but it isn't clear how free speech is protected, and indeed it seems that commitment to free speech doesn't extend far beyond simply stating that we have it.
I would recommend removing the references to free speech and admitting that this is not a site for free speech.
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Sigh.
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@huronking,
hey just noticed you are from nashville...cool.
good to have another nashville resident on board.
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@MarkTime:
I side with Wayne here. There isn't a single country in the world where true *public* free speech exists. Not in Europe, not even in the US. Genuine free speech exists only in the privacy of your mind. I'm sure that the meaning of the phrase in the Policy runs along the lines of 'what is commonly accepted as public free speech in real life is also accepted here in this public virtual community'. I think it's a bit silly to argue that the phrase suddenly should mean 'genuine, unrestricted free speech' when in almost all cases, it doesn't. Therefore there is no need to write down the elaboration, it is implied and understood. Deal with it.
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What happens when moderators make racist comments?
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Moderators are to be treated no differently than other users in the eyes of their fellow moderators. I know that I have been "called out" by certain moderators on occassion when I stepped out of line so I trust that they will keep everyone in line appropriately.
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I'm curious about all of the neo-nazi stuff on there.
Has this place really had a problem with NAZI's? (appart from kennyr, I mean ;)
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In those forums, there are those who continually seek to express neo-nazi (and other extreme) views which a good number of our patrons find offensive.
Hey what about those George Bush/Republican views _I_ find offensive :-D
No, seriously my preference would be to have a way of killing the posts of anyone I find seriously offensive, but others would be in total agreement with. Hmm, if only I could do that with my daily paper. :-?
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@Wayne
Keep in mind please that the "Coffee House" forums get 3x the
traffic of the actual computer-related forums on this site. In
those forums, there are those who continually seek to express
neo-nazi (and other extreme) views which a good number of our
patrons find offensive.
Wow, well, although there are many threads and posts I don't
get around to reading, I had never read anything even resembling
neo-nazi viewpoints here in the past, and I'm sad to hear that's
the case. (Although I hope noone is confusing racism with general
criticism of governments and politics.)
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-D- wrote:
Wow, well, although there are many threads and posts I don't
get around to reading, I had never read anything even resembling
neo-nazi viewpoints here in the past, and I'm sad to hear that's
the case. (Although I hope noone is confusing racism with general
criticism of governments and politics.)
I don't ever remember reading any neo-nazi stuff here. :-? I wonder where it happened?
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Maybe we should change it to "See DCMA and Patriot Act". Would that make some of you feel better?
What is freedom of speech? Say what you want, basically. Though, you will be held accountable for what you say. Everything has consequences that you have to live up to. There are also bounds, like we want to keep this site PG-13ish.
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Wow, well, although there are many threads and posts I don't get around to reading, I had never read anything even resembling neo-nazi viewpoints here in the past, and I'm sad to hear that's the case.
Yeah, that's what got me to make that initial post about the neo-nazis (and I never intended to have it turn into another debate about freedom of speech). As someone who practically lives in the off-topic/CoffeeHouse forums, I can't recal anyone advocating neo-nazism or anything anti-semetic. Just thought it was funny how something that didn't seem to be a problem was so over-stated in the rules. But then I guess it's possible all the neo-nazi/anti-semetic comments get deleted before I get to them :-? (I always miss the good stuff anyway ;-) )
- Mike
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Has this place really had a problem with NAZI's
There have been a few incidents with people expressing these views, but nothing I would consider a substantial problem.
The bigger problem has been with the use of Nazi materials in avatars, but that's usually quickly dealt with.
I think everyone here is a bit confused about the new posted policy and it's intent. Most people here who have a problem with it are usually the people who caused the rule to be put there in the first place. The people who {bleep} about censorship are usually the same people who desperately need to be censored.
We don't intend to censor anyone though. Just like when the posting guidelines were put in place, these are the rules that we go by.
Let's put this in an analogy... In the United States, every swimming pool which can be used by the public, or customers (like a hotel) MUST by law have a sign which states "no running, no horseplay, swim at your own risk" that sort of thing. It's not as though "no running, no horseplay, swim at your own risk" don't apply when a sign isn't there. They're just good, common sense (which I know is a problem for some here) rules to keep everyone protected.
The sign -- or in this case, our posted policy -- is JUST the COMMON SENSE ground rules which explains what, how, and why we would moderate a post or thread. That way, when some dumbass goes to screaming "censorship" when we do our jobs, we can point at the "sign" and say "told ya so before hand".
Having a posted policy, there is no ambiguity, there is no grey area, and I for one DON'T see all the problems or {bleep}ing over it, except that some people are still confused between the ideal of free speech, and the fact that it doesn't really exist ANYWHERE.
Just as it says in the Moderation policy itself;
"We at Amiga.org highly encourage the free expression of ideals. Without the ability to express ideas, what's the point? However, "Freedom" is not anarchy. All freedoms must be guarded with both respect and responsibility."
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*edit*
OK,
I should take a different take on this discussion, because the old line of thinking
is hitting a dead end.
First, lets state right off, that this isn't 100% censorship vs. 100% free speech.
Both censorship advocates and free speech advocates are not on the extremes, at
least the thoughtful ones are not.
A good example of not being on the extreme's are the ISP end user agreements.
You can take a company on one side of the equation, like Comcast, a cable
monopolist who has entered the internet arena...who writes
a very restrictive end-user agreement, based on their principles as a monopolist,
that pretty much just goes down the list of things they are going to deny, and
outlines harsh penalties for violating the agreement...and then
you can go to some of the larger ISP's that were started by internet pioneers...
our peers...our brothers...and you see a very different type of end user agreement.
They are not exact opposites, however. Both agreements recognize some speech will
occur, and both agreement recognize some types of activities are absolutely
illegal. But there are 'subtle' differences, that turn out to be real differences.
One...(hint comcast) might sell you down the river for a buck, and the others,
might even go so far as to stand in the transom and protect your privacy rights
with their own attorney's and fight an RIAA subpoena.
Now, back to our little virtual community. Of course, illegal speech is going to
be banned. Of course, some speech is going to take place and be allowed.
That isn't the question, as much as some here, would like to pretend that is the
question.
The question is, really, what type of community do we want. One more aligned with
freedom, or one more aligned with restrictions?
I'm not even going to try to be more specific until the conversation turns from
the shrill level it usually is....and maybe it will never shift from the shrill
level...
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There should be a rule against Marxist attitudes, too.
(Marxism being slightly more destructive than NAZIsm)
And I've seen saddam avatars, are they acceptable while NAZI ones are not? Explain that :-)
:-)
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Neo nazism? Blimey. It all goes on whenever I'm away :-)
Seriously, I've never really noticed anything like that and I tend to pour over the CoffeeHouse (I miss talkabout :-( ) a bit - admittedly not much recently.
I only ever recall one avatar that had any nazi connotations but that was actually an anti facism thing with a swastika behind the "no smoking" style circle. Or so I recall...
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4. Any post or comment advocating neo-nazi ideas or views.
5. Any post or comment advocating anti-semitic or racist views.
The newly updated moderation policies contradict most modern "liberal" ideas and views. :lol: ;-)
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iamaboringperson wrote:
There should be a rule against Marxist attitudes, too.
(Marxism being slightly more destructive than NAZIsm)
And I've seen saddam avatars, are they acceptable while NAZI ones are not? Explain that :-)
:-)
It's what your intentions are with it.
I still do not know what your intentions were with posting that KKK flag.
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iamaboringperson wrote:
There should be a rule against Marxist attitudes, too.
(Marxism being slightly more destructive than NAZIsm)
Y'know, both Marxism as well as christianity has no intentions to kill and/or exclude people. Both dissaprove it.
Nazism embraces it.
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The question is, really, what type of community do we want.
One more aligned with
freedom, or one more aligned with restrictions?
Essentially...and maybe I can partially relate to where MarkTime is
coming from here...and that's, are we responsibile enough to
conduct ourselves "freely", understanding at a fundamental level
what is and is not beneficial to oursleves and others socially,
or would we rather forgo that...and subject our decisions and
actions to an "external" rulebook, which spells everything out??
(at someone else's discretion?) Some will choose the former,
whilst others may need the latter...so, in that sense, I understand
the judgement call which Wayne and the moderators have to make.
I do believe though, that "overall", we should tend to shoot for the
former...and I suppose I mean that moreso as "societies", not only
here at Amiga.org.