Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Chucky on December 02, 2017, 08:47:47 PM
-
Many maybe know that I bought 2 PCBs from Phase5 for BPPCs.
I got them this easter. but never really done anything with them.
after Amiga32 I decided to finally move the components from my busted BPPC to a new PCB.
Did that..
but had an issue.. it seem that the boards COMPLETLY lacks the GND plane.
This is why the P5 boards are not in the market yet.
However. Phase5 refuses to do anything about this. as.. apparently I did broke the pcb..
So I made a video about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJYIj-92IVE&t (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJYIj-92IVE&t)
(YES camera is %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ty and it is after FB livefeed )
so.. this is what you can expect..
ADMINS: if this break any rules.. I am sorry and please remove this.
but this is imortant before anyone does any prepayment.
-
You must have damaged it. Both of them. :roflmao::rofl:
Many maybe know that I bought 2 PCBs from Phase5 for BPPCs.
I got them this easter. but never really done anything with them.
after Amiga32 I decided to finally move the components from my busted BPPC to a new PCB.
Did that..
but had an issue.. it seem that the boards COMPLETLY lacks the GND plane.
This is why the P5 boards are not in the market yet.
However. Phase5 refuses to do anything about this. as.. apparently I did broke the pcb..
So I made a video about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJYIj-92IVE&t
(YES camera is %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ty and it is after FB livefeed )
so.. this is what you can expect..
ADMINS: if this break any rules.. I am sorry and please remove this.
but this is imortant before anyone does any prepayment.
-
yes! especially the UNTOUCHED one. I CAREFULLY split the board in half and sanded off the GND plane and glued it together.
-
yes! especially the UNTOUCHED one. I CAREFULLY split the board in half and sanded off the GND plane and glued it together.
Or maybe when you picked them up, you folded the pcbs in half to fit in your shirt pocket.
It's for the best, just a sign you should have spent more time working on those A3660 upgrades.
-
but please remember I am the incompetent person here..
you know. the guy at Amiga32 that showed a CPU board with a booting 060 cpu.. :)
-
cut n paste of discussion:
http://www.hertell.nu/files/p5crap2.txt (http://www.hertell.nu/files/p5crap2.txt)
http://www.hertell.nu/files/p5crap3.txt (http://www.hertell.nu/files/p5crap3.txt)
-
It seems like the boards are working as intended. They are just 160 Euro drink coasters.
-
Many maybe know that I bought 2 PCBs from Phase5 for BPPCs.
I got them this easter. but never really done anything with them.
after Amiga32 I decided to finally move the components from my busted BPPC to a new PCB.
Did that..
but had an issue.. it seem that the boards COMPLETLY lacks the GND plane.
This is why the P5 boards are not in the market yet.
However. Phase5 refuses to do anything about this. as.. apparently I did broke the pcb..
So I made a video about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJYIj-92IVE&t (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJYIj-92IVE&t)
(YES camera is %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ty and it is after FB livefeed )
so.. this is what you can expect..
ADMINS: if this break any rules.. I am sorry and please remove this.
but this is imortant before anyone does any prepayment.
Easter is almost 9 monts ago, there should be a new version by now with GND :)
-
Many maybe know that I bought 2 PCBs from Phase5 for BPPCs.
I got them this easter. but never really done anything with them.
after Amiga32 I decided to finally move the components from my busted BPPC to a new PCB.
Did that..
but had an issue.. it seem that the boards COMPLETLY lacks the GND plane.
This is why the P5 boards are not in the market yet.
However. Phase5 refuses to do anything about this. as.. apparently I did broke the pcb..
So I made a video about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJYIj-92IVE&t
(YES camera is %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ty and it is after FB livefeed )
so.. this is what you can expect..
ADMINS: if this break any rules.. I am sorry and please remove this.
but this is imortant before anyone does any prepayment.
We dont need no stinking ground plane!!! lol
how could they miss something so incredibly important. Its plain to see they must of never built one. Is this a pcb house quality control issue or P5's boo boo? Are they sending people bad proto's?
I wonder how many of these bad boards they have? lol
-
they cannot ever have built one.. as he "liked" the picture when I posted that I was starting to solder my board.. IF he had built them, he would know about the issue and tell. so.. guess why we doesn't see anyting except empty boards?
my guiess: he cannot solder a through hole resistor.. yet less those mach-chips on the bppc.. he maybe doesn't even have the equipment needed to program the chips. or.. EVEN the damn chips?
-
So, they made these as a 2 layer board instead of a 4 layer board (or 4 instead of 6)?
-
nahhh.. as my video sjhow.. internal layers is there..
I have seen screenshots of the board so I would say a 8 layer board. BUUUT! my guess is that he simply.. did not include the GND gerberfile when ordering.
-
nahhh.. as my video sjhow.. internal layers is there..
I have seen screenshots of the board so I would say a 8 layer board. BUUUT! my guess is that he simply.. did not include the GND gerberfile when ordering.
I read the thread with you speaking to the phase 5 guy. I will say it's total crap and he should have requested that you send the boards back and he should have immediately issued you a full refund.
He also should have admitted that the GND was forgotten, ok, simple mistake, and this could have been solved quickly and quietly without any damage to his company. Now it is a PR nightmare. Obviously he is not educated in how to be a successful leader, entrepreneur or how to handle customer complaints, from which by all evidence you have given is a valid complaint.
Reading how this guy responds to you makes me NOT want to ever do business with him. I didn't trust this phase5 re-birth to begin with and now I even more don't trust it.
Until shipping, testable, verifiable products are available and tested by independent 3rd party reviewers I am not giving that guy ANY money.
-
I consider Chucky a good friend of mine now and it pissed me off having to see him go through this. He is respected like no other and his reputation is legendary. I take a lot of advice and guidance from him in the work I do even. Heck, half of the larger project I have taken on is a direct result of his encouragement and being motivated by his projects!
I suspected from the start this Phase5 crap was going to be another scam. I lost money on the preorders from the G3 PPC boards that were going to be released at the end of its life, I would never have trusted my hard earned money with them again on a preorder, even if its not the same people this time. This guy trashing Chucky is the final straw for me. I will never in a million years support this guy!
-
I decided to ask them on their Facebook page if it is true about the boards being faulty, that the ground plane is missing. Their response was to delete my question and block me. Totally unacceptable, companies that treat potential customers with such contempt deserve to go out of business
-
And also that means they do not have a single board with GND..
I mean.. how easy would it be to takea PCB and a multimeter and show?.. especially when he said he would have production started in November.
so.. unless I am proven wrong (of the facts that he doesn't have a single BPPC board with GND): do NOT do any kind of prepayments.
My boards was still sold as tested.. and no GND. but they are old and could be a pre-production error.- (in that case he would send me new working pcbs as that was our deal)
Anyway.. history will show.. my guess is thar mr. Salvador will soon be in his next bankruptcy.. sad.. so sad..
-
And also that means they do not have a single board with GND..
I mean.. how easy would it be to takea PCB and a multimeter and show?.. especially when he said he would have production started in November.
so.. unless I am proven wrong (of the facts that he doesn't have a single BPPC board with GND): do NOT do any kind of prepayments.
My boards was still sold as tested.. and no GND. but they are old and could be a pre-production error.- (in that case he would send me new working pcbs as that was our deal)
Anyway.. history will show.. my guess is thar mr. Salvador will soon be in his next bankruptcy.. sad.. so sad..
BTW, in your conversations with him he said "his" boards were tested working and booting....well I totally do not believe that. I have seen no evidence of any of his new version "2" boards booting. And I don't think anyone has. In fact I have only seen photos on the facebook page with unpopulated boards.
If I am wrong, someone please point me to a video showing his version "2" PCB's booting...otherwise I file this in the "BS" category.
-
I decided to ask them on their Facebook page if it is true about the boards being faulty, that the ground plane is missing. Their response was to delete my question and block me. Totally unacceptable, companies that treat potential customers with such contempt deserve to go out of business
Again, this is not how to handle the situation. Deleting your post after asking a valid question (it is public knowledge now what happened) just shows he is trying to cover this up and hope it will go away. Well it won't, it's too late for that now. Doubling down on his (incorrect) decision will make things worse, not better.
The best thing he could have done was admit he made a simple mistake, corrected the situation quietly and quickly with Chucky, fixed the error and moved on. This all could have been done privately between him and Chucky. The entire fiasco could have been avoided. Now all of us will look on this phase5 re-birth with even more scepticism and doubt.
We know how many false starts and scams there have been over the years regarding Amiga...too many I forget them all.
-
I saw the thread about this over on the Amiga Facebook page the other day... it had around 500 comments at the time. All I can say is, OMG, people are ridiculous. :angry: :angry: :mad: :angryfire: :madashell:
-
Hahaha uh oh... Someone forgot to restore a shelved polygon before going to print! If he was competent, he would have run a DRC prior to exporting the Gerbers. This is standard procedure, especially for a board this complex. It would have warned him about the missing ground plane (would be detected as an un-routed net or net antennae)
...UNLESS, all he has are the Gerbers, and not the source files? Or maybe he switched the DRC warnings off entirely?
-
Hi Chucky -
The guy seems to have a reputation as a flake and yet you carried forward and spent money with him? And now you have a bad purchasing experience. Surprise?
What other outcome could have been expected? All the gnashing, videos, copies of email conversations, etc... is just a lot of drama.
This thread seems like a cry for attention on your part more than anything.
Feel free to flame me, but this is my knee-jerk opinion.
-
Hi Chucky -
The guy seems to have a reputation as a flake and yet you carried forward and spent money with him? And now you have a bad purchasing experience. Surprise?
What other outcome could have been expected? All the gnashing, videos, copies of email conversations, etc... is just a lot of drama.
This thread seems like a cry for attention on your part more than anything.
Feel free to flame me, but this is my knee-jerk opinion.
Or he's actually trying to tell other people why they should not buy a broken product. And then demonstrated why it is broken quite clearly. He purchased this 9 months ago when the seller was showing newly built pcbs, the part that he actually needed.
Unless you're specifically against telling others why they shouldn't buy a falsely advertised and deficient product?
-
Or he's actually trying to tell other people why they should not buy a broken product. And then demonstrated why it is broken quite clearly. He purchased this 9 months ago when the seller was showing newly built pcbs, the part that he actually needed.
Unless you're specifically against telling others why they shouldn't buy a falsely advertised and deficient product?
+1
-
Oh good grief. The phase 5 guy has a reputation as fake5. That has been going on for quite some time now.
It's like buying a car from a used car salesman on a street corner with no license or retail premises who says "trust me" and then acting all surprised when it breaks down 10 miles down the road. And then warning others not to do the same? Duh. And then making a video? And copying/pasting email exchanges? drama.
I am in no way defending fake5, but at the same time this whole episode is a bit silly.
-
Hi Chucky -
The guy seems to have a reputation as a flake and yet you carried forward and spent money with him? And now you have a bad purchasing experience. Surprise?
What other outcome could have been expected? All the gnashing, videos, copies of email conversations, etc... is just a lot of drama.
This thread seems like a cry for attention on your part more than anything.
Feel free to flame me, but this is my knee-jerk opinion.
Well. He aparentlty had the data.. so I would't expect him to fail to produce the PCBs. just export the gerbers and.. presto.
also. remember there is a reason I told him that they must pass qualtycontrol and ship tracked. so I had any possability to go back to him.
I never belived he would be able to produce a working card. (yet less the complete p5 line.. why even try?)
And. well. yes! IF it would fail. I finally had real data to stop his madness. and when I was tealking to him and seen his talk it was more and more clear that he actually doesn't know %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! about this. So it was time to see if the board would ever work.. I wouldn't expect such a extreme fault as a missing layer..
but then also. we have now a full story how he would handle an issue with a custumer. any issue like a DOA? bah! got your money! go away.
It was a risc I was taking. so for me it is not really about the money. I can take it. but now we all know he is a fraud.
-
Aaand I was really hoping to get this damn blown bppc to work..
-
Hi Chucky -
Thanks for the gracious reply. I can put my flameproof gear away. Drat. ;)
If anything you have definitely removed any doubt as to the quality of the "flake5" product. They (he) can't even get a PCB manufactured. Good grief.
Shame about the bppc... that was an expensive investment.
Looking forward to seeing what other hardware projects you come up with. I have plans (evil plans) for the I/O ports on the Vampire 4.
Cheers!
-
New "Phase5" seems actually have product, no matter that it has a problem. I was 99% sure that they can't actually offer anything.
-
Thing is. people asked if I was an employee of P5..
IF I was.. they would have booting version of every card provided the data was correct. OK I cannot solder BGA. But give me proper tools and a week and that BGA would sit ther like a boss :)
-
I have no clue about this stuff whatsoever, but how do such gnd planes on a pcb look like? Is there always a single gnd "island"/"blob" or can there be multiple isolated islands/blobs on the gnd plane? Such that before installation of pcb component gnd blob #1 and gnd blob #2 are not connected, but after installation of it the blobs are connected.
-
you can say that it is basically a whole copperlayer for ground (- power)
so if you need a - power in your design (ground) you just put a via (hole with a conductive area in it) to fish up the ground where you need it..
in tyhis case, the via (hole) is there. but no layer to connect to.
so ICs get + power but never -. and to get something to work you need both + and -
-
:lol:
-
Was it a scam, or was it a good (newbie)try to actually sell working PCB´s?? Important question in the respect of LAW :)
Anyway, probably a couple of guys learned something form this :)
-
Was it a scam, or was it a good (newbie)try to actually sell working PCB´s?? Important question in the respect of LAW :)
Anyway, probably a couple of guys learned something form this :)
it is proof that he cannot do a PCB.. yet less a assembled board.
even less a complete P5 lineup!
-
it is proof that he cannot do a PCB.. yet less a assembled board.
even less a complete P5 lineup!
Assuming that ALL new PCBs are bad is an error. Assuming that ALL future PCBs will be bad also is an error.
You decided to get PCBs and I think you should solve issue with the seller directly (if you can). At this point what I can tell you have bad PCB based on YOUR expertise.
-
Assuming that ALL new PCBs are bad is an error. Assuming that ALL future PCBs will be bad also is an error.
You decided to get PCBs and I think you should solve issue with the seller directly (if you can). At this point what I can tell you have bad PCB based on YOUR expertise.
By applying simple logic: 2 PCBs was wrong.. I contacted him about that. IF he would have working PCBs it would be an easy thing to send 2..
and if he wanted be a cheap-ass and refuse. when I presented that video. it would be easy for him to show: looksie. he is wrong..
neither happend... so basically: all is %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!. and that is also the reason why the empty boards is all we have seen.
My guess is that he doesn't know how to export the files to gerbers.. and the 1260 he had at A32 also have no gnd plane.
-
:lol:
SlowClap.avi
-
I was very happy to hear that new BPPC can be produced again, but now everything looks... as usual :(. Chucky I hope you did not spend to much.
-
I was very happy to hear that new BPPC can be produced again, but now everything looks... as usual :(. Chucky I hope you did not spend to much.
Are there even ROHS compliant drop replacements for all the parts required to build designs from 2 decades ago.
-
@rob
NO. That is what makes the whole thing such a farce.
-
NO. That is what makes the whole thing such a farce.
I can't remember the exact details, but wasn't there some way around this if the parts are for "hobby use", or something like that?
-
I can't remember the exact details, but wasn't there some way around this if the parts are for "hobby use", or something like that?
well.. then I guess it must be sold as DIY kits.
-
you can say that it is basically a whole copperlayer for ground (- power)
so if you need a - power in your design (ground) you just put a via (hole with a conductive area in it) to fish up the ground where you need it..
Yes, but the whole copper plane is not filled with copper, or is it (ie. it is not like a solid filled rectangle in a paint program)?
So the copper in the copper plane forms some islands/blobs or maybe better said some kind of trace maze. And I was wondering if on pcbs there is always just one single such trace maze/labyrinth (where you can get from every possible point in the maze to every other possible point on the maze) or whether there can be multiple ones which are not connected by themselves (no way to get from a point on maze #1 to a point from maze #2 because they are not connected). And it's only the installation of some pcb component which later will causes the mazes to be bridged, so that they end up being connected.
stupid example: if you had a circuit with a lamp and a fuse on the negative side then as long as the circuit is unpopulated then it would look like the ground connection from DC In to lamp ground pin is missing.
-
Yes, but the whole copper plane is not filled with copper, or is it (ie. it is not like a solid filled rectangle in a paint program)?
So the copper in the copper plane forms some islands/blobs or maybe better said some kind of trace maze. And I was wondering if on pcbs there is always just one single such trace maze/labyrinth (where you can get from every possible point in the maze to every other possible point on the maze) or whether there can be multiple ones which are not connected by themselves (no way to get from a point on maze #1 to a point from maze #2 because they are not connected). And it's only the installation of some pcb component which later will causes the mazes to be bridged, so that they end up being connected.
stupid example: if you had a circuit with a lamp and a fuse on the negative side then as long as the circuit is unpopulated then it would look like the ground connection from DC In to lamp ground pin is missing.
well. more or less it IS a copperplate (with areas missing around vias (holes) that shuld not be connected to ground.. you do not bridge via other components (the lampexample) as then you put a lot of stress on that component.
However in the BPPC example, this is also not the design (bridge needed) as my video show: the old board with all components removed shows perfect groundplane where the new pcb show no signal whatsoever.
What you do in the cad sofrtware is to design a area, and tell it to fill this area totally. but if a component is placed there (like a hole conneting other layers) then it automatically makes a small area without copper around that hole.
so . either he simply forgot to send the gerberfile with the groundplane data, or when importting/exporting data between software (to move it to more modern software) this information did not come with it..
OR. he never connected the vias (holes connecting different planes/layers) to GND, meaning the software simply removed the copper around those holes INSTEAD of actually letting it be there. connecting that pin to ground.
and well. as told. as haven't been able to send 2 new working PCBs or even showiung the world thath there is a GND on new boards. my guess is: THERE IS NONE! and never was. as it would not require much to show this.
if he show this in a week or 2. well then it just shows that he made a new pcb order (propably a small one) based on my information.
-
I did a compilation on my web:
http://wordpress.hertell.nu/?p=562 (http://wordpress.hertell.nu/?p=562)
This info needs to be shown so noone does prepayments as the risc if fraud is too big.
IF he does deliver: pay when buying it. not befoore