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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: RobertB on October 26, 2017, 08:10:15 PM

Title: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: RobertB on October 26, 2017, 08:10:15 PM
See my photos of A.L.I.C.E. at

http://blog.retro-link.com/2017/10/unboxing-alice-laptop-incorporating.html

Writing and posted using A.L.I.C.E.,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: kolla on October 27, 2017, 12:11:46 AM
So a laptop with UAE :p
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: Acill on October 27, 2017, 12:37:21 AM
Quote from: kolla;832226
So a laptop with UAE :p


Its a lot more than that. Its got some very cool integration.
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on October 27, 2017, 04:32:34 AM
Personally I wouldn't spend money on any system with only an i3, but I'm sure it's plenty of power to run Amiga stuff. ;)
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: SACC-guy on October 27, 2017, 06:31:06 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;832240
Personally I wouldn't spend money on any system with only an i3, but I'm sure it's plenty of power to run Amiga stuff. ;)
@Mike

There were three A.L.I.C.E. models.. i3, i5 and i7.
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: kolla on October 27, 2017, 10:45:20 AM
Quote from: Acill;832229
Its a lot more than that. Its got some very cool integration.


Such as? Rabbithole, the glorified uae_rcli? :)
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: Gulliver on October 27, 2017, 02:37:17 PM
Quote from: kolla;832226
So a laptop with UAE :p


It clearly is that.
I can get a much better laptop for that price at my local Wallmart store and slap UAE on it.
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on October 27, 2017, 03:03:38 PM
Quote from: Gulliver;832255
I can get a much better laptop for that price at my local Wallmart store

*cough cough* Walmart laptops?  Cheap-arse Amiga users *cough cough*  :laughing::laughing:
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: BozzerBigD on October 27, 2017, 04:07:15 PM
@Gulliver (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=4890)

You do that if that makes you happy. This is a consumer grade product that adds an edge of professionalism and seamlessness (from what I've seen). Also, this is truly the first Amiga Laptop that can actually convince you that you are not using an emulation layer. It looks like an Amiga product, it behaves like and Amiga product, you can use both Amikit and Amiga OS4.1 and have access to Linux apps in those environments!! Great. What's not to love?

Some of us don't like messing around with Windows or Linux and just want to get straight to the Amiga bit.
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: SACC-guy on October 27, 2017, 04:10:57 PM
At his talk at the banquet..
Ken said first...anyone can do this (build an ALICE)
It would take time (lots) and effort and not just the laptop, but the licenses for..
Windows and AmigaOS 4.1 and the Enhancer Pack. Plus Amiga Forever and AmiKit and of course getting a working Linux setup.

I watched them setup a machine... it takes lots of time even for them who have the skills and have done it before!!!

The ALICE also comes with a backup system to restore all this should Windows try to over write during updates.

So... yes it's money and time!

I think it's better for ME to let them to do it!
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: wiser3 on October 27, 2017, 04:41:22 PM
I've been trying to decide between A.L.I.C.E. or a  stand alone Vampire system.

I like the portability of ALICE and how the Linux apps are themed to look like Amiga apps on the WB screen. It also provides more modern capabilities then Vampire.

On the other hand the Vampire is a more "pure" Amiga with some modern capabilities over the classics.

Once the Vampire actually comes out i'll be able to do a better comparison and pick between them.
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: dirkzwager on October 27, 2017, 05:36:11 PM
Tomorrow i go to amiga 32 in germany. I am from belgium and it is only 1,5 u driving with the car. I hope that the ALICE   there is. I think it is a great product, Ready to use. No install what you must do self or on whatever . What is the price in euro? It is normally a lot more than in the US.
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: wawrzon on October 28, 2017, 03:46:07 PM
Quote from: SACC-guy;832258

So... yes it's money and time!

I think it's better for ME to let them to do it!


i have set up amiga emulation on every system i use, inclusive the laptop im currently posting from. it isnt complicated at all. and it is free, just take winuae for windows and fs-use for linux. i even tend to use fs-uae under a linux vr to have direct access to my development builds from the emulation.

also setting up the software should be no brainer. you can copy your working setup over, just watch for things like the correct cpu libs in case of 040/060. as i usually use aros anyway, i literally do not have any problem to set up amiga anywhere. i just decompress aros iso to a directory that is used as system drive by uae, edit one or two lines of scripts, and fire it up, optionally adjusting few settings.
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: kolla on October 28, 2017, 03:58:25 PM
I always thought much of the appeal of AmigaOS was that it is small and easy wrap your head around, so anyone can install it and configure it to their hearts will :)

I bought AmKit out of curiosity, but sadly, after having tried to use it for some time, I realised it takes away everything I like about AmigaOS and leaves me with the same type of frustrations that I have when someone puts me in front of Windows, so... I dropped it.
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: SACC-guy on October 28, 2017, 10:16:17 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;832292
i have set up amiga emulation on every system i use, inclusive the laptop im currently posting from. it isnt complicated at all. and it is free, just take winuae for windows and fs-use for linux. i even tend to use fs-uae under a linux vr to have direct access to my development builds from the emulation.

also setting up the software should be no brainer. you can copy your working setup over, just watch for things like the correct cpu libs in case of 040/060. as i usually use aros anyway, i literally do not have any problem to set up amiga anywhere. i just decompress aros iso to a directory that is used as system drive by uae, edit one or two lines of scripts, and fire it up, optionally adjusting few settings.
I still stand by my statement.. for me this is a good idea

As I am less gifted than you.

Maybe you should write up a real step by step on how to do this as you described.
With the "scripts" completely written out.

Just to help us who don't have your knowledge.

Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: bison on October 28, 2017, 11:54:24 PM
Quote from: kolla;832293
I always thought much of the appeal of AmigaOS was that it is small and easy wrap your head around, so anyone can install it and configure it to their hearts will :)

I bought AmKit out of curiosity, but sadly, after having tried to use it for some time, I realised it takes away everything I like about AmigaOS and leaves me with the same type of frustrations that I have when someone puts me in front of Windows, so... I dropped it.


I've used UAE and its descendants a lot, but not AmiKit, so please expound on this -- what is frustrating about the experience?
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on October 29, 2017, 01:28:50 AM
Quote from: kolla;832293
I bought AmKit out of curiosity, but sadly, after having tried to use it for some time, I realised it takes away everything I like about AmigaOS

+1  From what I've seen, it looks and acts absolutely nothing like the "AmigaOS of yore".  :(
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: SACC-guy on October 29, 2017, 02:01:09 AM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;832326
+1  From what I've seen, it looks and acts absolutely nothing like the "AmigaOS of yore".  :(
You are thinking of Amiga forever. (classic in my eyes)

Amikit has all the eye candy. (NG)
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: IanP on October 29, 2017, 10:16:29 AM
The first portable machine I owned was a Linux netbook. I found Linux a pain to configure and maintain. This was replaced by a dual boot Windows 7/Android netbook, the Android environment was rarely used as again it would have taken time to install and keep apps up to date. Now I have a Windows 10 Laptop with WinUAE. A Laptop with Windows, Linux, AmigaOS 4 and a classic Amiga environment with the associated emulation, configuration and enhancement software sounds like a nightmare. I don't follow OS 4 development closely so I don't know if updates are frequent but just Windows updates are frustrating enough.
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: wawrzon on October 29, 2017, 12:23:06 PM
Quote from: SACC-guy;832317
Maybe you should write up a real step by step on how to do this as you described.
With the "scripts" completely written out.

i have done it repeatedly for everyone seriously interested. its trivial. to run aros on your amiga computer drcompress nightly to your boot partition and edit the s-s adding at the beginning:
arosbootstrap boot/amiga/aros.hunk.gz

and optionally appending the p96 drivers along with paths in this line just behind, juts like that:
cirrusgd542x.chip picassoii.card

simple. isnt it?
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: cgutjahr on October 29, 2017, 12:52:54 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;832333
simple. isnt it?

So is mowing your lawn or walking your dog - yet some people chose to pay a neighbour's kid to do that for them.

I don't see the point of this discussion? I'd never pay for a product like that, for the same reason you wouldn't. But I understand some people are simply not interested (anymore) in figuring out low-level computer setup problems. We're all getting older - and computers are mostly plug-and-play these days.

It would be more useful to give this a good review, so everybody who's about to pay hundreds of dollars for a novelty knows what he's getting into.

The 'rabbit hole' functionality is completely useless for everyday tasks, for example. As somebody already mentioned, it's not ALICE specific - and it was never meant to be used like that. Note that all of the promotional videos are carefully constructed to hide this problem: Most likely, you can only run one Linux application - and it will always be the top window, you can't really switch back to an AmigaOS program while the Linux app is still running. So it's basically "open Firefox, watch a website, close Firefox, run Wordworth". Maybe they found a way around that, but their promotional videos seem to suggest otherwise.

Also, Ken seems to have given a honest run-down of the product at Amiwest - including its drawbacks. Apparently, there's a reason ALICE comes with an emergency boot stick. I didn't see the presentation, but from what little I heard Windows overwrites parts of the harddisk occasionally, making the entire setup unusable. The user then has to rewrite the HD (or the Linux/Amiga parts? no idea) using the emergency boot stick. Not my idea of a "consumer grade product that adds an edge of professionalism and seamlessness", as BozzerBigD put it.
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: wawrzon on October 29, 2017, 01:20:34 PM
Quote from: cgutjahr;832334
So is mowing your lawn or walking your dog - yet some people chose to pay a neighbour's kid to do that for them.


if you bought a dog only to have some neighbour kid to walk it out, then i think you money might have been better spent.
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: psxphill on October 29, 2017, 01:24:39 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;832335
if you bought a dog only to have some neighbour kid to walk it out, then i think you money might have been better spent.

Yeah, we should charge them for the privilege of walking it, because that is the only reason to own one.

Also why buy a million pound mansion if you're just going to pay someone to clean it.
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: SACC-guy on October 29, 2017, 06:15:26 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;832333
i have done it repeatedly for everyone seriously interested. its trivial. to run aros on your amiga computer drcompress nightly to your boot partition and edit the s-s adding at the beginning:
arosbootstrap boot/amiga/aros.hunk.gz

and optionally appending the p96 drivers along with paths in this line just behind, juts like that:
cirrusgd542x.chip picassoii.card

simple. isnt it?
Now I'm really confused...
Why did you say to run on your amiga, I thought we were talking about ALICE (a pc )?
edit the s-s, You mean startup- sequence?
why would I add picasso96, I already have this on my amiga

Again, I thought this was for how to setup a pc laptop to run win/linux/3.1/4.1 maybe AmiKIt or Amiga forever

No, not so simple!

BTW, I don't have a dog
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: SACC-guy on October 29, 2017, 06:46:53 PM
Quote from: cgutjahr;832334

It would be more useful to give this a good review, so everybody who's about to pay hundreds of dollars for a novelty knows what he's getting into.

The 'rabbit hole' functionality is completely useless for everyday tasks, for example. As somebody already mentioned, it's not ALICE specific - and it was never meant to be used like that. Note that all of the promotional videos are carefully constructed to hide this problem: Most likely, you can only run one Linux application - and it will always be the top window, you can't really switch back to an AmigaOS program while the Linux app is still running. So it's basically "open Firefox, watch a website, close Firefox, run Wordworth". Maybe they found a way around that, but their promotional videos seem to suggest otherwise.

Also, Ken seems to have given a honest run-down of the product at Amiwest - including its drawbacks. Apparently, there's a reason ALICE comes with an emergency boot stick. I didn't see the presentation, but from what little I heard Windows overwrites parts of the harddisk occasionally, making the entire setup unusable. The user then has to rewrite the HD (or the Linux/Amiga parts? no idea) using the emergency boot stick. Not my idea of a "consumer grade product that adds an edge of professionalism and seamlessness", as BozzerBigD put it.
I would like to read your complete review.
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: wawrzon on October 29, 2017, 08:07:53 PM
Quote from: SACC-guy;832353
Now I'm really confused...

BTW, I don't have a dog


alright. its a waste of time, go, get your alice laptop.
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: EugeneNine on October 29, 2017, 08:37:14 PM
Quote from: cgutjahr;832334


Also, Ken seems to have given a honest run-down of the product at Amiwest - including its drawbacks. Apparently, there's a reason ALICE comes with an emergency boot stick. I didn't see the presentation, but from what little I heard Windows overwrites parts of the harddisk occasionally, making the entire setup unusable. The user then has to rewrite the HD (or the Linux/Amiga parts? no idea) using the emergency boot stick. Not my idea of a "consumer grade product that adds an edge of professionalism and seamlessness", as BozzerBigD put it.

Why does it have windows and Linux on it, whats the point?
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: cgutjahr on October 29, 2017, 09:19:08 PM
Quote from: EugeneNine;832370
Why does it have windows and Linux on it, whats the point?

Well, it needs to have one of these as the underlying (hidden) OS running UAE anyway - they probably chose Linux for that job, since it's a lot more configurable.

But to get stuff done - which is sort of the whole point with a brand new notebook - you can't solely rely on AmigaOS these days, so they also had to include a more "modern" option. Since Linux users aren't exactly the target group for this kind of product, it makes sense to also include Windows, doesn't it?

(note that "makes sense" refers to their point of view, obviously. Personally, I think admitting that you have to use some other OS to get actual work done and then offering a system that has a "boot into an AmigaOS only environment" option is kind of weird)
Title: Re: Unboxing A.L.I.C.E. (A Laptop Incorporating a Classic Experience)
Post by: SACC-guy on October 29, 2017, 09:38:41 PM
Quote from: wawrzon;832365
alright. its a waste of time, go, get your alice laptop.
Thanks,
You could have just said..
I don't wish to share my knowledge with you.

Wait! That's what you said!

Maybe someone else can step up to help?