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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Marketplace => Topic started by: guest20923 on September 30, 2017, 11:39:49 AM

Title: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: guest20923 on September 30, 2017, 11:39:49 AM
Thought I'd post a link for a neat external scandoubler I've just ordered. Mentions Amiga compatibility on the Ebay listing. Allows use of any VGA monitor which is great.:)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/15Khz-RGsB-RGBS-YUV-CGA-480i-Component-Video-to-VGA-Converter-Scaler-/350244621369?epid=689720387&hash=item518c34cc39:g:JlIAAOSwBLlU-mfS
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: rshimada on September 30, 2017, 04:42:40 PM
Due to the link location, I should point out Microbee's GBS-8200 VGA product which is about the same price http://www.microbeetechnology.com.au/vga-video-converter.htm

Please post an update after you've tried the product. I'm not aware of any newly available VGA converters that are really worth getting.
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on September 30, 2017, 05:31:04 PM
There was a thread about this one a while ago, if I recall. I think the consensus was that it sucked. :lol:  Benefit was that it's external and good for people with lots of retro systems who don't want to put a scan doubler in each one.
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: kreciu on October 01, 2017, 08:52:48 PM
I'm using this:

https://www.amazon.com/Scart-Video-Converter-Scaler-Coaxial/dp/B00MUNIVRO/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1506887503&sr=1-1&keywords=Scart+Hdmi+to+Hdmi+Video+Converter+Box+1080p+Scaler+3.5mm+Coaxial+Audio+Out

VERY nice quality from Amiga RGB (there is also component version)

and this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Composite-S-Video-Converter-Screen-Version/dp/B003NUN7DG

Cheaper and way worst, especially if you want to work on Workbench. For games, both works fine.

BOTH of them seems to by "flicerfixers" so you can easily use DoublePal etc. modes in Workbench.
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: guest20923 on October 03, 2017, 07:56:29 AM
Hasn't arrived yet but at $89 USD plus postage it's not cheap. I also found that if you search Ebay fro a CGA to VGA converter you'll find something like this:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-RGB-CGA-EGA-YUV-to-VGA-HD-Video-Converter-Board-Moudle-HD9800-GBS8200-JR-/152471535273?epid=929785172&hash=item238002fea9:g:6cEAAOSw1DtXF5yQ

Which at $25 AUD plus free postage is pretty cheap although they're only an open board, no case. No  Idea if they'd work with Amigas.

I could have gone for an Indivision MkII for the A1200 but would rather have the one for multiple machines.:)
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: guest20923 on October 03, 2017, 07:58:57 AM
Looks awesome rshimada. Didn't know about that one.
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: guest20923 on October 03, 2017, 08:08:48 AM
Kreciu: I have two Amiga Scart cables, one I bought recently the same as the AmigaKit one, but neither works (only a black screen) with the $40 AUD Scart to HDMI converter I also bought on ebay. I have a 4K TV so I decided it was a bit much and have opted for VGA instead.
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: orange on October 03, 2017, 10:21:45 AM
check if you have enough voltage on SCART pin 16 (blanking signal)
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: kreciu on October 03, 2017, 05:09:16 PM
Quote from: PreEminant Amiga User;831237
Kreciu: I have two Amiga Scart cables, one I bought recently the same as the AmigaKit one, but neither works (only a black screen) with the $40 AUD Scart to HDMI converter I also bought on ebay. I have a 4K TV so I decided it was a bit much and have opted for VGA instead.


I got my SCART cable also from Amigakit.com AND on one of my Amiga1200 it does not work. I suspect that my RGB output is bad... (didn't have time to see what is exact problem).

So, it can be your Amiga problem. I assume you have not possibility try another Amiga?
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: kreciu on October 03, 2017, 05:10:52 PM
Quote from: orange;831238
check if you have enough voltage on SCART pin 16 (blanking signal)

I will most likely do the same for this A1200 that have also problem with RGB/SCART cable.

BTW. SCART to HDMI converter is really nice, only thing what is noticeable is a "haze" around mouse pointer (when it is moving).
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: guest20923 on October 04, 2017, 09:22:36 AM
Quote from: kreciu;831250
I will most likely do the same for this A1200 that have also problem with RGB/SCART cable.

BTW. SCART to HDMI converter is really nice, only thing what is noticeable is a "haze" around mouse pointer (when it is moving).
I have used the A520 composite on my A1200 RGB port and it works, so RGB port output is fine. (Composite on a 4K TV is horrible though).
Looking forward to nice VGA image.
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: stefcep2 on October 04, 2017, 10:37:39 AM
Quote from: PreEminant Amiga User;831235
Hasn't arrived yet but at $89 USD plus postage it's not cheap. I also found that if you search Ebay fro a CGA to VGA converter you'll find something like this:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-RGB-CGA-EGA-YUV-to-VGA-HD-Video-Converter-Board-Moudle-HD9800-GBS8200-JR-/152471535273?epid=929785172&hash=item238002fea9:g:6cEAAOSw1DtXF5yQ

Which at $25 AUD plus free postage is pretty cheap although they're only an open board, no case. No  Idea if they'd work with Amigas.

I could have gone for an Indivision MkII for the A1200 but would rather have the one for multiple machines.:)


It works

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5daXoHw1s4g

and you can get DB23 adaptors here:


 http://www.electronicplus.com/search-return.asp?search=db23&Submit=Search
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: guest20923 on October 04, 2017, 02:11:36 PM
Quote from: stefcep2;831277
It works

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5daXoHw1s4g

and you can get DB23 adaptors here:


 http://www.electronicplus.com/search-return.asp?search=db23&Submit=Search
Looks good. Will definitely look if buying more for more monitors. As I've said, I'm waiting on an US$87 box I bought (link in earlier post).
Looking at the youtube link I'm wondering why people are wiring up a VGA connection. Couldn't you buy a DB23 RGB to VGA cable like are on Ebay and use that?
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: kirk_m on October 04, 2017, 02:28:16 PM
There is a guy selling a 3D printed case for that bare board on Ebay.  It looks fairly decent.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Case-for-GBS8200-Commodore-Amiga-scandoubler-warm-gray/172890457509?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D46657%26meid%3D18b2bbc3c2834b0c881f636f1d695eb9%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D13%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D112585627831&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%253Ae46dddb5-a907-11e7-a074-74dbd180c26e%257Cparentrq%253Ae792a8ec15e0a9c178efc711fffc2892%257Ciid%253A1

or, print it yourself:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2301666
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: stefcep2 on October 04, 2017, 02:45:30 PM
Quote from: PreEminant Amiga User;831284
Looks good. Will definitely look if buying more for more monitors. As I've said, I'm waiting on an US$87 box I bought (link in earlier post).
Looking at the youtube link I'm wondering why people are wiring up a VGA connection. Couldn't you buy a DB23 RGB to VGA cable like are on Ebay and use that?

Thats not how it works...the VGA is output from the board.  The amiga video comes To the scandoubler through those 6  colored wires.  You have to solder each one of those to the DB23.  This then plugs into the amiga video out.  The other end of the wires is plugged in to the scan doubler board.  Its done this way because this scan doubler is also used for numerous analogue consoles that have their own custom video out connectors, the idea being you solder those 6 colored wires to the matching input connector(in the Amiga's case its the Db23)

http://amigamodblog.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/amiga-500-scan-doubler-vga-converter.html?m=1
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: rshimada on October 05, 2017, 04:18:20 AM
Quote from: kreciu;831193
I'm using this:

https://www.amazon.com/Scart-Video-Converter-Scaler-Coaxial/dp/B00MUNIVRO/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1506887503&sr=1-1&keywords=Scart+Hdmi+to+Hdmi+Video+Converter+Box+1080p+Scaler+3.5mm+Coaxial+Audio+Out

VERY nice quality from Amiga RGB
Yeah, agreed - for HDMI output. Those of us in the Americas have to wait patiently for our SCART cables to arrive.

The HDMI/SCART upscaler also takes composite input, which I've needed on the low quality 4:3 LCDs monitors currently available. (The composite input on these monitors often have trouble with vertical sync.)
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: guest20923 on October 05, 2017, 07:28:20 AM
Quote from: stefcep2;831288
Thats not how it works...the VGA is output from the board.  The amiga video comes To the scandoubler through those 6  colored wires.  You have to solder each one of those to the DB23.  This then plugs into the amiga video out.  The other end of the wires is plugged in to the scan doubler board.  Its done this way because this scan doubler is also used for numerous analogue consoles that have their own custom video out connectors, the idea being you solder those 6 colored wires to the matching input connector(in the Amiga's case its the Db23)

http://amigamodblog.blogspot.com.au/2012/06/amiga-500-scan-doubler-vga-converter.html?m=1
I was wondering because the coloured wires plug in behind a VGA input connector. Would a DB23 to VGA Amiga custom cable be able to plug from Amiga out into VGA input socket? Otherwise what's the Input VGA connector on the board for?:)
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: guest20923 on October 05, 2017, 07:35:45 AM
Quote from: kirk_m;831286
There is a guy selling a 3D printed case for that bare board on Ebay.  It looks fairly decent.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Case-for-GBS8200-Commodore-Amiga-scandoubler-warm-gray/172890457509?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D46657%26meid%3D18b2bbc3c2834b0c881f636f1d695eb9%26pid%3D100675%26rk%3D13%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D112585627831&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci%253Ae46dddb5-a907-11e7-a074-74dbd180c26e%257Cparentrq%253Ae792a8ec15e0a9c178efc711fffc2892%257Ciid%253A1

or, print it yourself:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2301666
Nice Amiga style case. I didn't realise that GBS 8200 was the name of the cheap board. I've heard it mentioned before but cased ones sell for around AUD$120 on Ebay. Would be a bargain to get a board and case instead.:)
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: guest20923 on October 05, 2017, 08:26:36 AM
Quote from: rshimada;831316
Yeah, agreed - for HDMI output. Those of us in the Americas have to wait patiently for our SCART cables to arrive.

The HDMI/SCART upscaler also takes composite input, which I've needed on the low quality 4:3 LCDs monitors currently available. (The composite input on these monitors often have trouble with vertical sync.)
Well; I've learnt a few things about Amigas since focussing on VGA. One thing is the authenticity of the 4:3 screen ratio. I really believe in the "spirit" and Amigaesq feedback of the Amiga and,  in keeping with it's manufacture (factory Commodore) , doesn't present well with a 16:9 widescreen.
Although I've tried HDMI without  success, it seems VGA is as far as I should go. I'm not a fan of Escom as they didn't keep the original Amiga framework and followed in worldly PCifying the Amiga.(In my opinion) PCs' are anybodys business and not far from dwelling in crap. (In my opinion). Steve Jobs from Apple said "NO" to investing in Commodore and I think that to be a value rather than a detraction.
I guess for my interest in the Amiga it's about being workable and relevant without losing the presence the Amigas came out with in 1985. (I feel better now):)
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: kolla on October 05, 2017, 09:10:46 AM
To make things worse, if you pretend that PAL (interlaced) has 1:1 pixels, you get a 5:4 display ratio, but PAL is also 4:3 and the "pixels" are not 1:1 :)

There are, however, quite a few native 1280x1024 LCD/TFT monitors that indeed are 5:4.
I always found it a bit strange that Indivision and other flicker fixers cannot just double 640x512 to a native 1280x1024 :p
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: guest20923 on October 05, 2017, 10:52:11 AM
Quote from: kolla;831327
To make things worse, if you pretend that PAL (interlaced) has 1:1 pixels, you get a 5:4 display ratio, but PAL is also 4:3 and the "pixels" are not 1:1 :)

There are, however, quite a few native 1280x1024 LCD/TFT monitors that indeed are 5:4.
I always found it a bit strange that Indivision and other flicker fixers cannot just double 640x512 to a native 1280x1024 :p
In 1986 I had an A1000 with a 1081 monitor (scart connector and green screen opt). I have a 1084S now but think I'd prefer TFT (despite my previous rant) as these days the CRT looks a little "fish-eyed" for want of a better word.
Is the 1081/84(s) series 4:3 or 5:4? I assumed 4:3 was the standard.
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: stefcep2 on October 06, 2017, 01:31:09 AM
Quote from: PreEminant Amiga User;831322
I was wondering because the coloured wires plug in behind a VGA input connector. Would a DB23 to VGA Amiga custom cable be able to plug from Amiga out into VGA input socket? Otherwise what's the Input VGA connector on the board for?:)

Good point!

I assumed it was duel VGA output- why have a VGA input if your source is already VGA?  The manual says the VGA input is RGBHV if that makes any difference.

https://www.mikesarcade.com/estore/datasheets/GBS-8200-booklet.pdf

http://retroactivearcade.ca/content/GBS-8200%20VGA-CGA%20Manual.pdf


All the amiga examples I have seen use the colored ribbon cable soldered to an amiga db23.  They also draw power from the RGB port to power the scan doubler-this is apparently risky to the amiga.

I actually ordered one of the scan doublers myself and a DB23 connector, but I also have an amiga DB23 to VGA kicking around at home and if it works yippee no soldering, and a spare DB23.
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: QuikSanz on October 06, 2017, 02:26:44 AM
Quote from: PreEminant Amiga User;831322
I was wondering because the coloured wires plug in behind a VGA input connector. Would a DB23 to VGA Amiga custom cable be able to plug from Amiga out into VGA input socket? Otherwise what's the Input VGA connector on the board for?:)


I agree, That should work The adapter just converts the wiring but no scan doubling happens there. you would need a 15Khz capable monitor, Hard to find so still needs to be doubled.
However you will have a lot of stuff sticking out the back and would be cleaner to just solder on your own connector.
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: guest20923 on October 06, 2017, 05:07:38 AM
Quote from: QuikSanz;831362
I agree, That should work The adapter just converts the wiring but no scan doubling happens there. you would need a 15Khz capable monitor, Hard to find so still needs to be doubled.
However you will have a lot of stuff sticking out the back and would be cleaner to just solder on your own connector.
I was thinking of say, Amiga RGB-DB23/VGA adaptor-VGA cable-GBS8200-VGA cable-VGA TFT monitor.
I know you can connect without a doubler board but the monitor would have to be 15KHZ capable like an LG 1717a etc.
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: guest20923 on October 06, 2017, 05:11:36 AM
Quote from: stefcep2;831361
Good point!

I assumed it was duel VGA output- why have a VGA input if your source is already VGA?  The manual says the VGA input is RGBHV if that makes any difference.

https://www.mikesarcade.com/estore/datasheets/GBS-8200-booklet.pdf

http://retroactivearcade.ca/content/GBS-8200%20VGA-CGA%20Manual.pdf


All the amiga examples I have seen use the colored ribbon cable soldered to an amiga db23.  They also draw power from the RGB port to power the scan doubler-this is apparently risky to the amiga.

I actually ordered one of the scan doublers myself and a DB23 connector, but I also have an amiga DB23 to VGA kicking around at home and if it works yippee no soldering, and a spare DB23.
I'd be interested to know how you go. The USD$89 doubler box I bought; it's listing mentions a separate 5v supply and normal VGA ports in and out so that's what I was going to do (with a DB23 adaptor).:)
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: guest20923 on October 06, 2017, 05:14:23 AM
Quote from: stefcep2;831361
Good point!

I assumed it was duel VGA output- why have a VGA input if your source is already VGA?  The manual says the VGA input is RGBHV if that makes any difference.

https://www.mikesarcade.com/estore/datasheets/GBS-8200-booklet.pdf

http://retroactivearcade.ca/content/GBS-8200%20VGA-CGA%20Manual.pdf


All the amiga examples I have seen use the colored ribbon cable soldered to an amiga db23.  They also draw power from the RGB port to power the scan doubler-this is apparently risky to the amiga.

I actually ordered one of the scan doublers myself and a DB23 connector, but I also have an amiga DB23 to VGA kicking around at home and if it works yippee no soldering, and a spare DB23.
booklet also says CGA/EGA autoscan 15KHZ/...
Should be fine with a normal cable unless it ALSO drains power. Wouldn't think so though - it has a separate power supply point.:)
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: guest20923 on October 18, 2017, 05:45:23 AM
Quote from: PreEminant Amiga User;831160
Thought I'd post a link for a neat external scandoubler I've just ordered. Mentions Amiga compatibility on the Ebay listing. Allows use of any VGA monitor which is great.:)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/15Khz-RGsB-RGBS-YUV-CGA-480i-Component-Video-to-VGA-Converter-Scaler-/350244621369?epid=689720387&hash=item518c34cc39:g:JlIAAOSwBLlU-mfS
Well, it arrived. It's an Ambery AV-1M and all I had to do was set it to RGB (Has also YpBr) and switch it to XGA output(has VGA, XGA and QXGA). I'm using an Acer AL1717 monitor which cost me all of $9 so the bit of vertical banding I see isn't a worry. That's the monitor not the signal. Anyway works a treat and is in a nice compact case that's easily placed under or behind the monitor.
http://www.ambery.com/rgbcgatovgac.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au
Thanks everyone.:)
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: stefcep2 on October 23, 2017, 12:00:14 PM
Well received the GBS board.  Mine is a Version 5 with VGA in and VGA out.

On PAL A1200 with Db23-VGA adaptor I get a rolling PAL high res screen.  Same with any games.

 The component input->VGA out works perfectly as tested with DVD players, Bluray player and a Gamecube with component out.

So no go with DB23-VGA adaptor.
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: rshimada on October 24, 2017, 01:43:08 AM
Quote from: stefcep2;832089
Well received the GBS board.  ... no go with DB23-VGA adaptor.

The sync level may be too high. See https://ianstedman.wordpress.com/gbs-82xx-experiments/
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: guest20923 on October 24, 2017, 11:03:07 AM
Quote from: stefcep2;832089
Well received the GBS board.  Mine is a Version 5 with VGA in and VGA out.

On PAL A1200 with Db23-VGA adaptor I get a rolling PAL high res screen.  Same with any games.

 The component input->VGA out works perfectly as tested with DVD players, Bluray player and a Gamecube with component out.

So no go with DB23-VGA adaptor.
Bummer. Oh well..
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on October 24, 2017, 12:15:20 PM
Quote from: stefcep2;832089
Well received the GBS board.  Mine is a Version 5 with VGA in and VGA out.

On PAL A1200 with Db23-VGA adaptor I get a rolling PAL high res screen.  Same with any games.

 The component input->VGA out works perfectly as tested with DVD players, Bluray player and a Gamecube with component out.

So no go with DB23-VGA adaptor.

Have you tried fiddling with all the knobs?  :laughing:
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: stefcep2 on October 26, 2017, 02:00:20 AM
AFTER ordering a Db23-VGA adaptor form Amigakit, I found my original one.  The Amigakit one is yet to arrive.  And AFTER finding it doesn't work, I researched it and found on EAB and Amibay others have been down this road and found it didn't work.


Lesson: Research because chances are someone in the world thought of it before you!
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: guest20923 on October 26, 2017, 05:11:00 AM
The Ambery AV-1M I bought works well and is in a case. Has VGA and XGA + 1 other output. Works with DB23 to VGA adaptor no probs.:)
Title: Re: External scandoubler for 15KHZ RGB Amiga
Post by: guest20923 on January 21, 2018, 08:24:26 AM
Quote from: PreEminant Amiga User;831160
Thought I'd post a link for a neat external scandoubler I've just ordered. Mentions Amiga compatibility on the Ebay listing. Allows use of any VGA monitor which is great.:)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/15Khz-RGsB-RGBS-YUV-CGA-480i-Component-Video-to-VGA-Converter-Scaler-/350244621369?epid=689720387&hash=item518c34cc39:g:JlIAAOSwBLlU-mfS
An update: I've just fitted an Ambery AV-1M to my CDTV and found the 17"TFT monitor couldn't handle the signal. No picture - kept autocorrecting. I contacted Ambery.com and received a reply that their converter is probably not compatible with A500-esq machines. Although the blurb on their website clearly promotes Amiga compatibility. After considering this; and thinking it's all bollocks - I bought some 50cm shielded SVGA cables. (The one I was using was a cheap less shielded 1M vga cable.
Voila we have a picture!!
Also as a side note I'm quite proud of just having set up a SCSI 1GB Jazz drive as a boot option on the CDTV. Running the standard OS 1.3 for authenticity. Did it easily using HDInstallTools . (Automatic config). That was after I realized how to change the programs default language from German to English. Yay. :)