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Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: sim085 on September 19, 2017, 08:16:51 PM

Title: metal shield
Post by: sim085 on September 19, 2017, 08:16:51 PM
Hello, I always hear about how Commodore always wanted to reduce cost. I also see how many people remove the metal shield from their Amiga. So I wonder, why did Commodore put the shield in the Amiga? Wouldn't they have reduced costs if they removed the top one at least? Did all other Amiga competitors have the same thing?
Title: Re: metal shield
Post by: Matt_H on September 19, 2017, 08:24:20 PM
It was probably a regulatory/FCC requirement. Some machines did ship without the top shield. I wonder if its inclusion was related to the regulatory environment of the country where the machine was to be sold.

As an anecdote, I have a few US 1200s and a US 500 and they all have the top shields. My UK 600 came without a shield.
Title: Re: metal shield
Post by: Tellurium on September 19, 2017, 08:27:46 PM
Because, you see, cutting on the RF shielding, they would not have passed EMC (electro magnetic compliance). This would have cut costs, but also potential markets. And stupid as it may seem, Commodore really wanted to stay in the US market. Even if death came from that market, hilariously
Title: Re: metal shield
Post by: sim085 on September 19, 2017, 08:32:04 PM
But am I wrong, the A1000, A2000, A3000, etc don't have such shields...

Quote from: Tellurium;830830
Because, you see, cutting on the RF shielding, they would not have passed EMC (electro magnetic compliance). This would have cut costs, but also potential markets. And stupid as it may seem, Commodore really wanted to stay in the US market. Even if death came from that market, hilariously
Title: Re: metal shield
Post by: wiser3 on September 19, 2017, 08:33:04 PM
The shields provides two way protection.

First of all the shield helps prevent the device from producing any emissions, (radio, electrical, etc...) that interfere with the operation of other devices.

Secondly the shield helps protect the device from emissions that other devices are allowed to emit.

Exact laws and standards of how much and what types of emissions are allowed vary from country to country. Without the shields these standards wouldn't be met, the device wouldn't get certification and would be illegal to sell.
Title: Re: metal shield
Post by: Matt_H on September 19, 2017, 09:44:49 PM
Quote from: sim085;830831
But am I wrong, the A1000, A2000, A3000, etc don't have such shields...


I can't explain the A1000, but the other big box machines' metal cases may have served the same function as the RF shield in the smaller Amigas.
Title: Re: metal shield
Post by: kreciu on September 19, 2017, 09:50:30 PM
Quote from: wiser3;830832

Secondly the shield helps protect the device from emissions that other devices are allowed to emit.


Considering what I did to my A1200 motherboards in last 20 years, IMO they could survive anything ;).
Title: Re: metal shield
Post by: Oldsmobile_Mike on September 19, 2017, 10:39:10 PM
FCC shielding.  IMHO unless you're working in a hospital or somewhere else that could possibly be sensitive to this sort of thing, toss 'em.  They just trap heat and cut your fingers when you open the system up to work on it.  But don't tell Scuzz that, I seem to recall he had a whole thread a few months back about how those metal shields are the greatest thing next to sliced bread.  :lol:
Title: Re: metal shield
Post by: scuzzb494 on September 19, 2017, 11:00:42 PM
Quote from: Oldsmobile_Mike;830837
FCC shielding.  IMHO unless you're working in a hospital or somewhere else that could possibly be sensitive to this sort of thing, toss 'em.  They just trap heat and cut your fingers when you open the system up to work on it.  But don't tell Scuzz that, I seem to recall he had a whole thread a few months back about how those metal shields are the greatest thing next to sliced bread.  :lol:


You will like this then ....

http://www.scuzzscink.com/amiga/scuzzblog_september17/scuzzblogdseptember17_1602.htm
Title: Re: metal shield
Post by: QuikSanz on September 20, 2017, 01:57:39 AM
They used to think RF could cause undesired operation and interference on yours or others devices. Notice how now you can have your phone on in an airplane for example.
Title: Re: metal shield
Post by: Motormouth on September 20, 2017, 05:30:48 AM
EM interference can be significant in some cases.   The FCC was particularly crazy about this in the 80's with so many computers and gaming systems coming out.   It was unclear what effect they would have like television or radio inference etc.  you also have to remember we were still using 12v and 5v lines had the "potential" (in this case both meanings) to radiate. and since the computer has signals of 10s of kilohertz to megahertz frequencies which are in the the radio/and TV bands and other communication bands of the era.  In the A500 the filter choke and the floppy cable are particular noisy according to my field meter.  

In an unrelated topic
@Tellurium,  Just curious why Tellurium, do you like the smell of onions?  Eventhough it is used in many things, tellurium is not the element most people think of.....
Title: Re: metal shield
Post by: a1200 on September 20, 2017, 11:17:31 PM
With the exception of an A600 with an accelerator, I always build/restore my Amigas with the metal shield on. One because it "completes" the build and second, being a radio ham, most Amiga clock speeds sit on a HF band (7MHz, 14MHz, 50MHz accelerators etc) so does raise the noise floor so try to keep it as suppressed as possible.
Title: Re: metal shield
Post by: arttu80 on September 21, 2017, 07:50:34 PM
Quote from: Matt_H;830834
I can't explain the A1000, but the other big box machines' metal cases may have served the same function as the RF shield in the smaller Amigas.


Maybe not very relevant, but A1000 is of plastic case construction (remember team member autographs underside of top cover?), it does have RF shielding.
Title: Re: metal shield
Post by: Matt_H on September 21, 2017, 11:58:59 PM
Quote from: arttu80;830888
Maybe not very relevant, but A1000 is of plastic case construction (remember team member autographs underside of top cover?), it does have RF shielding.


But wasn't the A1000 the only plastic Amiga to ship without metal RF shielding? What RF sheilding are you referring to on the A1000?

I wonder if the regulation was introduced post-1985...?
Title: Re: metal shield
Post by: Motormouth on September 22, 2017, 12:27:45 AM
Quote from: Matt_H;830891
But wasn't the A1000 the only plastic Amiga to ship without metal RF shielding? What RF sheilding are you referring to on the A1000?

I wonder if the regulation was introduced post-1985...?

At least in the US  The regulations were pre 85.  Even the early system like the Atari VCS and Atari 800s had to meet specifications.  Particularly in the VHF and UHF bands ie 30 Mhz to 3Ghz (if my memory is correct) and the public radio air wave bands.

This of course only applies to the US.  Other countries has their own regulations, sometimes very stringent, sometimes non-existent
This is why the Commodore 128D  has a US version and an everywhere else version.  
The US version has a big heavy metal case.