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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Findlarn on August 29, 2017, 10:00:06 PM
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I just ordered a CF card with WB 3.1 preinstalled on it. However, it doesn't work :( When starting up the computer the screen just remains black, all the lights on the SCSI card reader is constantly on, and nothing more happens. But games, demos etc. works just fine.
And yes, of course I have Kickstart 3.1 installed... I have a switch with both 1.3 and 3.1. I have also double checked that 3.1 is the auto booting one.
Could it be the controller card? It's just a slow A2091. However the ROM's have been upgraded to 7.0...
I have also tried playing around with the JP5 jumper (LUN on or off) with no result.
The CF card is connected to the PCMCIA port...
Any ideas..?
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Are you using one of the Mechware SCSI card readers? Is termination and SCSI device ID set correctly for your system? Can you confirm the card reader works correctly with other cards?
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Yes it is a Mechware reader.
And well... I've actually had quite some trouble with other cards. In fact it was one of the reasons I ordered this one. (thinking the other ones where incompatible somehow) As I foolishly thought that would be an easy, hassle free quick fix.
The (other) cards (32mb, 64mb and 4GB) where not recognized some times and they where very difficult to set up. Size couldn't always be recognized and once created, partions refused to be formated etc. And the 4GB card was even more useless as it would not even let me into the HDToolbox setup...
So yes, I think we are on the right trace here... So I guess the question is, how do I set up the card reader correctly?
However it has worked somewhat ok in the past with the 64mb card. The only problem then was that I constantly got messages about bad blocks. And that was the main reason why I tried using other cards in the first place.
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I've never got my mech card reader to work in an A2000 and had massive issues with it in a friends 3000. I ended up just selling it to get an IDE solution when building an A1200 for him.
I would look more into one of these honestly. http://www.generationamiga.com/2017/06/10/the-new-ide4-zorro2-a-new-idecf-controller-for-amiga-2000/
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I've never got my mech card reader to work in an A2000 and had massive issues with it in a friends 3000.
FUD. ;) Works great for me in an A2000, also in an A500. Suggest it may be a problem with the controller board, or not set up correctly for LUN's, or some other configuration error (ID, termination, etc.). The A2091 isn't exactly the best SCSI controller option for an Amiga...
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FUD. ;) Works great for me in an A2000, also in an A500. Suggest it may be a problem with the controller board, or not set up correctly for LUN's, or some other configuration error (ID, termination, etc.). The A2091 isn't exactly the best SCSI controller option for an Amiga...
LMAO Paul doesnt do "FUD" that is just dumb. Its based on his experiences. Having said this it looks like there are several ppl here sucessfully using that hardware
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LMAO Paul doesnt do "FUD" that is just dumb. Its based on his experiences. Having said this it looks like there are several ppl here sucessfully using that hardware
Ok, but if that's true, what would be the first step to try here? And also, how should the jumpers on the card reader be configured? I just checked, and right now they are set to "termination ON" (pin 7-8) Should it be set to 0 instead? And exactly what does "termination" mean in this case? Anyway... the other configuration part (NC and WR Protect) is left as it is, with no jumpers...
Oldsmobile_Mike:
Yes, I'm fully aware that the A2091 isn't the greatest card by any means. It's very slow etc... So what other controller card would you recommend?
Acill:
That IDE interface sure looks good. But if other people can manage to get these things going I probably should try solving this issue first, before jumping into something completely new. Besides I really like the feature of having access to everything externally on the front. Especially when swapping files between PC/emulator and stuff like that. And the ability to have one card for the OS and programs and another one for my files.
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I have a Mechware scsi in my A2000 with a GVP Impact HC+ 2008 and its working fantastic with the CF card in the PCMCIA Port.
When i get some spare time i can try to take a look at my jumper configuration and get back to you.
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And exactly what does "termination" mean in this case?
http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/scsi/cablesTermination-c.html
tl;dr Terminators stop signal reflection and are built into every SCSI device these days, however they must only be enabled on the furthest devices away from each other and not on devices between. If you only have a 2091 and a card reader, then both should have termination enabled (the 2091 is just as much a SCSI device as a hard drive). If the cable has more than two connectors then use the ones at each end.
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Is the reader the only thing connected to the 2091 and do you know that the 2091 is actually good (working)?
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Ok, but if that's true, what would be the first step to try here? And also, how should the jumpers on the card reader be configured? I just checked, and right now they are set to "termination ON" (pin 7-8) Should it be set to 0 instead? And exactly what does "termination" mean in this case? Anyway... the other configuration part (NC and WR Protect) is left as it is, with no jumpers...
Oldsmobile_Mike:
Yes, I'm fully aware that the A2091 isn't the greatest card by any means. It's very slow etc... So what other controller card would you recommend?
I can't speak for the A2091, mine is currently in a box (I was halfway finished with the Speedgeek 14MHz hack and put it away a couple years ago, unfinished), would have to dig out the manual... but for the card reader itself (assuming you have a PCD-60b like mine, the 50-model may be similar) there's four jumpers on the bottom. 0, 1, 2, and Termination. The first three are for setting the device ID. It should be set to an ID that doesn't conflict with the controller card or other devices. The last one - Termination - if this is the only device on your SCSI chain you'll want to set that on. If you have other devices in your chain you'll need to adjust accordingly.
My best recommendation (if you have multiple devices) is to start with just one device. Get that working 100% correctly then add a second device, and so on.
Also, just a side thought, have you tried with a different SCSI cable? May be you have a bad cable.
As for "recommended devices", I have successfully used my card readers with an A500 GVP Series II sidecar (using both 4.15 and Guru-ROM's), a GeForce '040 (using 4.15 ROM), and a TekMagic '060 board (using the latest ROM's for that device). When in doubt, always make sure you have the latest ROM. I know you said you did that for your A2091, which is good, but if possible you might try swapping to a GVP-brand SCSI controller. IMHO they have a few more modern features than the older 2091.
But check those jumpers and try with a different cable. Rule out the easy stuff first. :)
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http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/scsi/cablesTermination-c.html
tl;dr Terminators stop signal reflection and are built into every SCSI device these days, however they must only be enabled on the furthest devices away from each other and not on devices between. If you only have a 2091 and a card reader, then both should have termination enabled (the 2091 is just as much a SCSI device as a hard drive). If the cable has more than two connectors then use the ones at each end.
Ok so that's what it means. And thanks for the link! :) It made me remember those external ones as well...
But what I don't understand however is that the A2091 doesn't seem to have any termination jumpers on the PCB:
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=1161
Should I put an external terminator on the SCSI port on the back? In that case I think I have an old one lying around somewhere...
madgrizzle:
Yes, the card reader is the only thing that is connected. And good question... Didn't think of that... How do I know if it's faulty then? That would be a bit odd however, considering how little use it has seen.
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Oldsmobile_Mike:
Ok I will check that out as soon as I can. (You posted the same time I was writing my previous reply)
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Spitballing here, but is JP2 enabled?
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Spitballing here, but is JP2 enabled?
You mean autobooting? Yes, it is set to "AUTO"...
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But what I don't understand however is that the A2091 doesn't seem to have any termination jumpers on the PCB:
http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=1161
The 3 black pins between the internal scsi connector and the words "Internal SCSI Connector" are the termination and can be removed.
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The 3 black pins between the internal scsi connector and the words "Internal SCSI Connector" are the termination and can be removed.
Do you mean those soldered resistor packs? But if those are there, that means termination is on, right? So no need to remove them... But does that also mean that you cannot have an external SCSI device installed at the same time?...
Anyway... I will play around with those jumpers as soon as I can, and will come back later to report my results...
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It's been a while since I mucked around with it, but I think you need to have termination on the card, the last device of your internal chain, and the last device of your external chain. But SCSI can be finicky, lol. Still, I wouldn't remove them from the card unless you are really are sure what you're doing.
Edit: btw, what are your Mask and MaxTransfer values in HDtoolbox?
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It's been a while since I mucked around with it, but I think you need to have termination on the card, the last device of your internal chain, and the last device of your external chain. But SCSI can be finicky, lol. Still, I wouldn't remove them from the card unless you are really are sure what you're doing.
Edit: btw, what are your Mask and MaxTransfer values in HDtoolbox?
Well, I didn't exactly plan to desolder them... ;) When I said "playing around" I only meant the jumpers on the card reader... I would never attempt to remove those unless it turns out to be absolutely necessary.
And regarding the Mask and MaxTransfer values I will try to remember checking those as well...
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Found this thread:
http://www.amiga.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-61819.html (http://www.amiga.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-61819.html)
So it should be workable.. someone else has managed to get an A2091 to work with a mechware reader.
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I'm using one of these card readers (I think it's the -50B) on an A2000 with a 2091 with no issues. Not really sure what the problem could be. I have LUNs disabled so only the PCMCIA slot works, which I use with a CF adapter. With LUNs enabled, the machine takes far, far longer to boot - longer than I have patience for ;) - since it polls each LUN at each SCSI address. My 2091 has 2MB of RAM installed and the system is also using a 2630 accelerator with 4MB. I don't remember my jumper settings on the card reader, but presumably I have termination enabled since it is the only SCSI device in the machine. I have nothing connected to the external SCSI port.
It sounds like you are able to boot from floppy and insert the CF drive afterwards to work on it in HDToolbox? Are there any filesystems installed in the RDB? Maybe the system is getting hung up on something there. SCSI reselection may be another flag worth investigating.
Are the v7 ROMs installed correctly (i.e., not accidentally swapped)? What revision DMAC chip is in your 2091? What revision SCSI chip?
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Do you mean those soldered resistor packs? But if those are there, that means termination is on, right? So no need to remove them... But does that also mean that you cannot have an external SCSI device installed at the same time?...
Anyway... I will play around with those jumpers as soon as I can, and will come back later to report my results...
Sorry, I screwed up. I've been working on different systems with 2091, Fastlane, and Rapidfire. The 2091 has them soldered.
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I'm back folks! :)
And I think that I have finally solved it now! It was a ridiculously easy fix! All I needed to do was to add another jumper to the card reader, making it device number 1. Previously it was set to 0. I also remember now that when I originally installed it I did not know that the A2091 counts as a device itself, hence I set it to 0. In other words the A2091 is apparently by default set to 0 so therefore your added unit must be 1 or higher in order to work. At least that's what I can make of it.
Matt_H:
That's strange... mine isn't any slow when booting with LUN activated!? Or how inpatient are you? ;) It was painfully slow however, before I changed the jumper settings. But now it boot's up pretty quickly. Even when the CF card is inserted in the CF slot. Although it boots slightly faster when it's through the PCMCIA slot... Actually I'm very surprised at this. So that was indeed a nice bonus feature! In fact I think I can live with this controller card a bit longer now before upgrading. Mine is rev. 4.0 btw... :)
wlemonds:
Well... That that took care of a lot of confusion for me. Thanks! :)
And now when all this is taken care of I have a couple of other small questions I would like to take care of in order to get me going with this :)
What do I need in order for the Amiga to be able to read FAT formatted devices? Where do I find a driver for this? And how do I install it? Do I just need a simple driver file to put in my "DosDrivers" drawer? (I remember having something like that for my 1200, unfortunately I don't remember where I got it or how I installed it) And also, are the cards (other than the HDD with the OS) hot-swap able? I ask this because I (obviously) want the simplest/fastest way possible to transfer files over to the Amiga...
And one more final question... Is there a driver or something for reading jpg/jpeg? (Good for desktop backgrounds etc.)
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What do I need in order for the Amiga to be able to read FAT formatted devices? Where do I find a driver for this? And how do I install it? Do I just need a simple driver file to put in my "DosDrivers" drawer? (I remember having something like that for my 1200, unfortunately I don't remember where I got it or how I installed it) And also, are the cards (other than the HDD with the OS) hot-swap able? I ask this because I (obviously) want the simplest/fastest way possible to transfer files over to the Amiga...
You need this:
http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/fat95
Read the instructions carefully, it can be kind of tricky to do the initial setup. Otherwise, yes to all of your questions. I use a FAT-formatted SD card in my A2000. When I want to swap files I pop it out and pop it in the card reader on my PC and copy away. Yes, I could also use USB or network (since my A2000 has both of those) but the SD card is almost too easy to need any other solution. :D
And one more final question... Is there a driver or something for reading jpg/jpeg? (Good for desktop backgrounds etc.)
Plenty of applications on the Amiga can read .jpg files. If you want to open them natively (i.e., with Multiview or the Workbench wallpaper prefs) you need a .jpg datatype. These are the best:
http://www.warpdt.co.uk/
You don't have to register but it doesn't hurt to throw the author a few bones for his trouble. ;)
Also, while you're at it, you mention using 3.1. If you're not ready to upgrade to 3.9 (or don't have the system specs to support it), check out this:
http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/BetterWB.htm
Have fun! :)
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I believe the 2091 controller itself is ID 7, so your device should have worked at ID 0. There are a number of hidden RDB flags having to do with identifying the last device on the chain so that the controller stops looking for others. (Sometimes HDToolbox with start up with a message "Drives have been added or removed from the system" which is an indication that it wants to update that flag.) I wonder if one of those flags was choking with ID 0.
My controller starts to boot instantly with LUNs disabled, but enabling them added a 20-30 second delay. That delay wasn't worth it to me since I don't need to sneakernet files to the machine. It's on the network so I just send things over that way.
For transferring from Windows drives you need fat95 on Aminet. I think you'll need to create a DOSDriver, too. GiggleDisk (also Aminet) can pull the geometry and do that for you.
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Oldsmobile_Mike:
Thanks for the links! :) And of course it was on Aminet! Why didn't I think of that!? But on the other hand I didn't remember the name of it.... I know now that I've used it before. But that time I think it was pre-installed and used under that alternative, strange "clunky" WB version. What was the name of that monstrosity again? Anyway... I also upon further inspection noticed that "FAT95" was already included! But not installed. I've looked into it a bit, but it looks quite complicated... Have I gotten this part right?
compactflash.device in "DEVS"
fat95 in "L:"
CF0 in "DEVS/DOSDrivers"
Is that all I need to know? Or is there more to it? How about the startup sequence? (the part that looked most complicated)
I will eventually check out the jpeg thing as well... It's just that I prefer to focus on one thing at a time, and when that works 100% I can move on to the next. Makes most sense to me... :)
And yes, I know about "BetterWB" Maybe I should give that a go. Because with my current specs there's no way that 3.9 would work. Plain 68000 processor and 3mb of ram...
Matt_H:
So the 2091's ID is actually 7. Hm... that's interesting... Might be useful to know sometime in the future :) And pardon my ignorance, but what is "Sneakernet"...? Is that something you use with "X-Surf"...?
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Sneakernet means to walk a disk from one machine to another. :roflmao:
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Sneakernet is a joke networking term referring to transferring files by walking them from one machine (while wearing sneakers :) ) to another using removable media (floppy, CD, USB stick, etc.). No actual network hardware/software is involved.
(To explain my previous comment further, since my machine is on the network, I don't need to use any of the other card reader slots for transferring files back and forth and so I disabled LUNs.)
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Have I gotten this part right?
compactflash.device in "DEVS"
fat95 in "L:"
CF0 in "DEVS/DOSDrivers"
Is that all I need to know? Or is there more to it? How about the startup sequence? (the part that looked most complicated)
Forget about compactflash.device since this is for the A600/A1200 PCMCIA port only. Fat95 is correct, and you can use the CF0 file after modifying it a little. Just open CF0 in a text editor and change compactflash.device to scsi.device. Next you must change the Unit number, which must consist of the Unit number of your card reader followed by the LUN number of the slot you want to use. In your case it should be 10 for Unit 1 and the first slot (LUN 0) for example.
You shouldn't have to change anything in the Startup-Sequence.
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Sneakernet is a joke networking term referring to transferring files by walking them from one machine (while wearing sneakers :) ) to another using removable media (floppy, CD, USB stick, etc.). No actual network hardware/software is involved.
Haha ok, you really got me there! :lol: I'm Swedish you know, and doesn't always know these terms :laugh1: And yes I understand what you meant now with the networking thing :)
Forget about compactflash.device since this is for the A600/A1200 PCMCIA port only. Fat95 is correct, and you can use the CF0 file after modifying it a little. Just open CF0 in a text editor and change compactflash.device to scsi.device. Next you must change the Unit number, which must consist of the Unit number of your card reader followed by the LUN number of the slot you want to use. In your case it should be 10 for Unit 1 and the first slot (LUN 0) for example.
You shouldn't have to change anything in the Startup-Sequence.
Sounds a lot easier then the included instructions... I think I can get it going now. I will try that out as soon as I can :)
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which must consist of the Unit number of your card reader followed by the LUN number of the slot you want to use. In your case it should be 10 for Unit 1 and the first slot (LUN 0) for example.
No, it's the other way round. Unit 12 means ID 2, LUN 1. So to get LUN 0 of ID 1, it's unit 1. Unit 10 would be LUN 1 of ID 0.
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Hello everyone! Sorry for the delay. It's been a very busy week...
Anyway... I still haven't got it to work yet. And I have some new questions...
Under what text editor can you edit these type of files? It doesn't seem to work with "Multiview"...
And is there a way under windows to convert the "readme.too" file so that you can print it out on paper? Would make thing's a lot easier... (I don't have a working printer for my Amiga)
Why isn't there any simple step-by-step instructions for this!? Down below is a list of how I have understand things so far...
1. Copy "compactflash.device" into DEVS (A600/1200 only)
2. Copy "CF0" into Devs/DOSDrivers
3. Copy files in "C" drawer into "C" in Workbench.
4. Copy files in "L" drawer into "L" in Workbench.
5. Edit "Cf0" to correspond with your setup.
What should I do next? Follow the instructions provided in the "readme.too" file? And why doesn't those instructions say anything about editing the CF0 file? And where should the finished "mountlist" be stored?
I'm starting to get very confused by all this. I'm almost at the point of giving up now... :(
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Under what text editor can you edit these type of files? It doesn't seem to work with "Multiview"...
C:Ed
As the name suggests, Multiview is just a viewer. Ed is a text editor built into every version of Workbench.
The docs are next to useless - they pre-date your type of setup and have nothing referring to SD cards, but they do give examples of the type of file you'll need to create. Will try to copy an example from my setup later.
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Quick thought: you did enable LUN's on the controller, yes?
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And is there a way under windows to convert the "readme.too" file so that you can print it out on paper? Would make thing's a lot easier... (I don't have a working printer for my Amiga)
Third thought - I had no problem opening the .lha archive on my PC with WinRAR and then opening the "Readme.too" file in MS Word. If you rename the extension from ".too" it'll open automatically, or just select Word from the list of "What program would you like to open this file with?" that Windows pops up. :)
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Okay, 4th post in a row now from me and I'll STFU. Make sure your card is properly formatted (I would format and test it on a PC, just to make sure). Start with a small card to make it faster.
Next you'll want to put "FAT95" in your SYS:L directory. I'm using version 3.18, which I think is the latest.
Configure yourself a DOSDriver in SYS: Devs/DOSDrivers/ like my screenshot attached. Note that as a previous post said, you'll need to modify the unit number for your specific device, although you can always try mine (assuming you have the same model of card reader I do), and the device name.
Don't forget the tooltypes in your icon info file (see second screenshot, attached). Although it may be redundant, it probably can't hurt.
Make sure your SD card is inserted, reboot, and see what happens. I know it works because I used my card right now to transfer the attached screenshots from my Amiga to my PC to post this. I suppose if I was really a glutton I could've posted it directly from my Amiga, haha. ;)
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C:Ed
As the name suggests, Multiview is just a viewer. Ed is a text editor built into every version of Workbench.
The docs are next to useless - they pre-date your type of setup and have nothing referring to SD cards, but they do give examples of the type of file you'll need to create. Will try to copy an example from my setup later.
Aha ok... Didn't know that. You see I usually use Multiview for everything, and never had any need for editing...
And yes, I started to slowly realize that the docs doesn't match my setup. Hence the big confusion earlier when you guys say one thing here, and the docs says something completely different!
Quick thought: you did enable LUN's on the controller, yes?
Yes LUN's are enabled. In fact I have the jumper hooked up to a wire, leading to a switch on the back for easy access. Sense we all know the card is very slow, having the option to easy switching it off when booting from a gotek or floppy is a really neat feature! ;)
Third thought - I had no problem opening the .lha archive on my PC with WinRAR and then opening the "Readme.too" file in MS Word. If you rename the extension from ".too" it'll open automatically, or just select Word from the list of "What program would you like to open this file with?" that Windows pops up. :)
I've just tried that, and it worked great! :) So I have printed it out now. I always in troublesome cases like this prefer to have physical documents at hand. So much better in my opinion ;) At least the setup examples might be useful...
Okay, 4th post in a row now from me and I'll STFU. Make sure your card is properly formatted (I would format and test it on a PC, just to make sure). Start with a small card to make it faster.
Next you'll want to put "FAT95" in your SYS:L directory. I'm using version 3.18, which I think is the latest.
Configure yourself a DOSDriver in SYS: Devs/DOSDrivers/ like my screenshot attached. Note that as a previous post said, you'll need to modify the unit number for your specific device, although you can always try mine (assuming you have the same model of card reader I do), and the device name.
Don't forget the tooltypes in your icon info file (see second screenshot, attached). Although it may be redundant, it probably can't hurt.
Make sure your SD card is inserted, reboot, and see what happens. I know it works because I used my card right now to transfer the attached screenshots from my Amiga to my PC to post this. I suppose if I was really a glutton I could've posted it directly from my Amiga, haha. ;)
And once again thank you so much for taking your time helping me with this. And as usual I will try things out as soon as I can, and come back later to report :)
And a little side thought.... You really should sometime in the future when you have the time for it make a Youtube video about this. I've always liked your Amiga related videos. Especially the one on how to install 3.9 :) Witch I used for setting up my 1200, a bit slow perhaps with the expansion I'm currently using. But at least it worked :)