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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Software Issues and Discussion => Topic started by: madgrizzle on July 06, 2017, 08:40:39 PM
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I have an Amiga 2000, GVP 68030/25 MHz Combo Board, VA2000 graphics card and a Supra 6 GB RAM (downgraded to 4 GB through jumpers to work with the graphics card). I'm running OS3.1 and want to know if this setup would work with OS3.9? The GVP card has some RAM on it, but I'm not sure how much. It's got 1 of the SIMMs populated. Looks almost identical (maybe missing a sticker or two) to the G-Force 030 Combo with Items here: http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=177 (http://www.bigbookofamigahardware.com/bboah/product.aspx?id=177)
I'd like to ultimately get the computer on the Internet so a TCP/IP stack is a must and I know(think) OS3.9 has that built in. I'm just concerned that it will be really slow, like C-64 floppy drive slow..
Any thoughts?
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3.9 will work on that setup, but you might find your RAM doesn't stretch as far as it does with 3.1 (3.9 needs more RAM). You can see how much RAM is on your accelerator using ShowConfig or SysInfo - it will show all the different contiguous RAM blocks. The Supra RAM will show as 16bit, the GVP RAM will show as 32bit.
But by no means is 3.9 required for TCP/IP. Miami, AmiTCP, and Roadshow will all work under 3.1.
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I'm running 3.9 on a bog-standard A4000D (25mhz '030, 16mb fast) with no issues.
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Running 3.9 on a GVP combo 030/40 with 12MB and PicIV card and runs great but would suggest 2MB chip to go with it. I notice a difference.
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3.1 + BetterWB (http://lilliput.amiga-projects.net/BetterWB.htm) for low spec systems
3.9 + BB1, 2 (http://os.amigaworld.de/index.php?lang=en&page=12), 3&4 (http://amigan.1emu.net/releases/BoingBags3&4.readme) for high spec systems
Yours will run 3.9 fine (although I wouldn't try for high color modes), but better if you add more RAM.
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The GVP has 5 MB of 32-bit RAM. The Supra has 6 MB but I had to set it back to 4 MB because the VA2000 needed 2 MB of address space. So, if there is a max of 8 MB in the Zorro II address space, is the GVP doing 2 MB of Zorro II address space RAM, Supra doing 4 MB, the VA2000 taking up the other 2 MB and then the GVP doing the remaining 3 MB somewhere else? Is there a way to put all GVP RAM "somewhere else" so I can set the Supra back to 6 MB?
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I think the GVP should put all of its RAM into the 32bit space. So your current config is only using 6MB in the Zorro II space (Supra & VA2000). You should be able to put your Supra card back to 6MB, which will max out the Zorro space with 8MB.
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Just noticed the VA2000 is reporting as 4MB board.. The developer said it needed 2MB of address space so I'll inquire with him.
Anyway, if I switch to OS3.9 and don't like it, how hard is it to revert back to 3.1? Can I just reinstall 3.1 from the floppies and all work?
Thanks for the help all
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GVP Combo cards can be picky. My 030/40 card will handle 16MB on board, after that nothing on Zorro. If I remove 1 Mem to 12MB it will take 4 MB on Zorro with room for auto config. A Tekmagic2060 will take anything even with 128MB on board. Depends on card.
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Anyway, if I switch to OS3.9 and don't like it, how hard is it to revert back to 3.1? Can I just reinstall 3.1 from the floppies and all work?
Yes, you can. But you won't want to ;-)
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When I tried 3.9 with my 030 and 8 MB of fast ram, it was hogging resources to the point of being unusable. I suppose with the right amount of tuning it would be better, but I ended up going with classic workbench.
http://classicwb.abime.net/classicweb/advsp.htm
I wish that an official version of 3.9x existed that included everything that classicwb has, including all the updates and optimizations to make it useful out of the box.
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Just noticed the VA2000 is reporting as 4MB board.. The developer said it needed 2MB of address space so I'll inquire with him.
I went to the website and it says it uses 4 MB of ZorroII address space. So, If I have a Supra 6 MB card I had to jumper to 4 MB to get to work and a GVP 68030 Combo with 5 MB, how much Fast RAM do I have? OS 3.9 needs 6 MB I believe. When I go to sysinfo, it reports the Supra 4 MB as Fast RAM but the GVP as 32BitRAM. Is this considered Fast RAM?
John
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32-bit ram installed on an accelerator is considered "fast ram", that is correct. In fact it is typically faster than the 16-bit memory installed in a Zorro slot by several orders of magnititude (how much faster, exactly, depends on the design of the accelerator card).
A properly configured system will use the 32-bit fast ram first (since it's the fastest), followed by any 16-bit fast ram, and lastly chip ram (once all other resources are exhausted). --- The exception being for data that requires chip ram, obviously.
You may also want to look into installing the TLSFMem patch (http://www.amiga.org/forums/showpost.php?p=826697&postcount=16), which IMHO organizes the RAM a little better than the standard system architecture. YMMV. ;)
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You can also use BetterWB.
Anyway, if you want, I can guide you into torturing AmigaOS 3.9 to run, just eating only 1MB of ram. I have done it on my unexpanded A1200 with success.
For using internet with Genesis and Ibrowse you will need a minimum of 4MB of additional ram. Replacing Genesis TCP-IP stack with roadshow will probably eat you even less ram. And if you decide to go on the archaic internet that Amigas can provide, you may also replace your Aweb web browser for another ancient one, that will consume less memory, at the expense of fewer features.
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The GVP has 5 MB of 32-bit RAM. The Supra has 6 MB but I had to set it back to 4 MB because the VA2000 needed 2 MB of address space. So, if there is a max of 8 MB in the Zorro II address space, is the GVP doing 2 MB of Zorro II address space RAM, Supra doing 4 MB, the VA2000 taking up the other 2 MB and then the GVP doing the remaining 3 MB somewhere else? Is there a way to put all GVP RAM "somewhere else" so I can set the Supra back to 6 MB?
I think I would try 9MB on the GVP and remove the Supra. You will probably see a jump in performance.
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Running OS3.9 with a Vampire Board 500v2 in my Amiga 2000.
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Running OS3.9 with a Vampire Board 500v2 in my Amiga 2000.
@SaludaLabs Your configuration will blow a mere 68030 out if the water. It is 20-50 times faster (depending on the benchmark) and has 128 megs of 32bit ram.
I have run 3.9 on a A3000 with 030 and 8meg of 32bit fast ram without any problems. With only 5megs of 32bit fast ram you may run out of 32bit ram from time to time, the 16 bit ram will keep things running, but the programs loaded into it will slow down.
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I would say 3.5 for that. 3.1 is nice also
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I upgraded the GVP to 13 MB of RAM... was cheap enough. I'm waiting on a GVP 4.15 ROM to arrive tomorrow (woot) so I can install OS3.9 to a CF card and see how it runs. Since the GVP seems to load most everything it its RAM, is there any reason to have the Supra and its 4 MB in the computer?
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Since the GVP seems to load most everything it its RAM, is there any reason to have the Supra and its 4 MB in the computer?
Some older applications require 16-bit RAM to be present. I'd keep it, it's not costing you anything other than a few cents extra on your power bill each month. :lol:
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@madgrizzle,
Your combo card has a limit, it is 16MB of total memory. With a total of 13 MB on the card you only have 3 MB of room left on the Zorro bus! If you plan on a graphics card add that to the bus, If a 2MB Card you will Have 1MB left. With a 4MB Graphic card you would have to do with 9MB or change the soldered Mem to 4MB and leave out 1 stick of 4MB. Or if not adding any card you can change the soldered mem to 4MB, fill the GVP and have 16MB.
Chris
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@madgrizzle,
Your combo card has a limit, it is 16MB of total memory. With a total of 13 MB on the card you only have 3 MB of room left on the Zorro bus! If you plan on a graphics card add that to the bus, If a 2MB Card you will Have 1MB left. With a 4MB Graphic card you would have to do with 9MB or change the soldered Mem to 4MB and leave out 1 stick of 4MB. Or if not adding any card you can change the soldered mem to 4MB, fill the GVP and have 16MB.
Chris
If the GVP card puts its memory in the 32-bit address space (I assume it does, most do), then this information is incorrect.
Your actual limits are closer to 128MB (32-bit RAM), 8MB (16-bit RAM), and 2MB of chip. If you later add a graphics card (2MB or 4MB) that will come out of the 16-bit (Zorro 2) address space.
Of course YMMV, bases on any limitations of your particular accelerator. If it maxes out at 16MB of 32-bit RAM, then adjust accordingly. ;)
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If the GVP card puts its memory in the 32-bit address space (I assume it does, most do), then this information is incorrect.
Your actual limits are closer to 128MB (32-bit RAM), 8MB (16-bit RAM), and 2MB of chip. If you later add a graphics card (2MB or 4MB) that will come out of the 16-bit (Zorro 2) address space.
Of course YMMV, bases on any limitations of your particular accelerator. If it maxes out at 16MB of 32-bit RAM, then adjust accordingly. ;)
I have the 030/40 one with 4 MB on board. If I load it to 16MB and add anything to Zorro it either will not boot, have glitchy operation or things will just not show up. I must remove 4 MB to put anything in Zorro. There was a post from a GVP engineer not too long ago about this on this site or the other but can't find it yet to point to it. Something about limited address space on old cards.
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Well, that's interesting.. I get my 4.15 ROM today in the mail and will be trying it out. Bummer the VA2000 uses 4 MB of Zorro space. It's not like I'm using the high resolutions. I wonder if that can be configured. If it was 2 MB, then I could get 13 MB on the GVP card. I'll inquire with the developer.
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If it was 2 MB, then I could get 13 MB on the GVP card.
If it were me, I'd look for a different accelerator - one that's not so limited - rather than crippling your graphics. Plenty of other cards out there that properly support up to 64MB or 128MB, assuming you have the budget. Good luck!
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@Oldsmobile_Mike,
I loved the way the TEK2060 made my A2000 fly. I think it's time for a Vampire now that Gold Core 3 is going to be released!
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I have the 030/40 one with 4 MB on board. If I load it to 16MB and add anything to Zorro it either will not boot, have glitchy operation or things will just not show up. I must remove 4 MB to put anything in Zorro. There was a post from a GVP engineer not too long ago about this on this site or the other but can't find it yet to point to it. Something about limited address space on old cards.
Well, I booted the Amiga and installed OS3.9 and boingbags 1-4 with 13 MB in the GVP, 4 MB in the Supra and the VA2000 taking up 4MB of address space (which apparently can be changed to 2 MB if needed per the developer). I had no problems with it running all night, but I'm not sure I really taxed the memory.. All I had time to do was bring up aminet.net on AWeb after I got the plipbox working. I'll see if I can max it out tonight to see what happens. At the worst, I can set the VA2000 to 2 MB and pull the Supra leaving 13 MB on the GVP.
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Plenty of other cards out there that properly support up to 64MB or 128MB, assuming you have the budget. Good luck!
And there's the rub. :(
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Set you accelerator's memory jumpers for all memory mapped high.
Set your VA2000 for the preferred size for your machine (I have read that 2MB is preferred in Zorro II situations, not for speed, but to leave space for other memory allocations in the 8MB Zorro II expansion (8MB) space.)
Set the Supra to 6MB mode if the above is true, or 4MB if you are advised otherwise.
Make sure you are using some kickstart remap tool (GVPCPUCTRL - if the CPU is an EC model) or the OS CPU FastROM command (if the CPU has an MMU), and that both caches are on (CPU Cache). I don't know if the VA2000 is preferred to have the data cache turned on after the drivers load for it - check the docs.
As for being 'picky', know the Amiga memory architecture and where your product's memory is being placed. In most cases, placing all Accelerator 32-bit RAM up high is best, unless you have a need for some in 16-bit DMA space. 16-bit RAM,l like on the Supra, is used later, after all 32-bit FastRAM is used.
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The GVP accelerator boards never had any further RAM expansion options when they came out. Back then, 16MB was a lot. The 64MB on the 68040 was enormous. These boards came out in 1991-1992 and were very popular.
Cards that came out after the 'fall' of the market in 1993 have since taken RAM amounts further, with cheaper memory packages.
I've got a 256MB RAM expansion on my A4000T - made in the last 15 years. Unheard of in 1994. And the A2630 big RAM expansion was rarely seen back then, if you could find one.
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Well, I booted the Amiga and installed OS3.9 and boingbags 1-4 with 13 MB in the GVP, 4 MB in the Supra and the VA2000 taking up 4MB of address space (which apparently can be changed to 2 MB if needed per the developer). I had no problems with it running all night, but I'm not sure I really taxed the memory.. All I had time to do was bring up aminet.net on AWeb after I got the plipbox working. I'll see if I can max it out tonight to see what happens. At the worst, I can set the VA2000 to 2 MB and pull the Supra leaving 13 MB on the GVP.
Let me know how this goes. Maybe I need the newer ROM in my card or something else is wrong...
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@OP - you should drop down to the command line and do an avail, or at least verify in SysInfo or some other tool that all memory is being recognized and configured correctly. But from your previous post, it sounds like everything is good. Kudos! :)
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@OP - you should drop down to the command line and do an avail, or at least verify in SysInfo or some other tool that all memory is being recognized and configured correctly. But from your previous post, it sounds like everything is good. Kudos! :)
from running avail (commas added)
chip: 892,728 avail, 139,464 in use, 1,032,192 max, 889,664 largest
fast: 13,134,000 avail, 4,691,792 in use, 17,825,792 max, 6,272,312 largest
total: 14,026,728 avail, 4,831,256 in use, 18,857,984 max, 6,272,3212 largest
Looks like its all there.
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Hmm, Looks like there is a problem with my card or setup!
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...
Looks like its all there.
Nice! Great setup! :D
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But by no means is 3.9 required for TCP/IP. Miami, AmiTCP, and Roadshow will all work under 3.1.
A tid bit off topic. but, here goes:
Is there an easy or usable tcp/ip stack for os1.3 or os2.1?
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A tid bit off topic. but, here goes:
Is there an easy or usable tcp/ip stack for os1.3 or os2.1?
RasberryPi?
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No.
Amiga 2000 with network card.
and A500 when i get the plipbox completed.....
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A tid bit off topic. but, here goes:
Is there an easy or usable tcp/ip stack for os1.3 or os2.1?
Looks like Miami works under 2.1, but I don't think much other internet software does.
For 1.3, I doubt there's anything. It predates the SANA-II and bsdsocket.library standards. *Maybe* Commodore's AS225 v1 works under 1.3 (hardcoded for the A2065), but as far as compatible software goes, you're probably going to be limited to the included command line tools.