Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: utri007 on June 24, 2017, 09:10:16 PM
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There is a bounty to develop Opensource PPC laptop. First step goal is %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8364;12,600.00.
1.Hardware components research, analysis of the architecture, and design of the electrical schematics [12600 euro, 30 net days];
2.Printed Circuit Board (PCB) Gerber format delivery of the electrical schematics [11950 euro, 30 net days];
3.Production and delivery of five working prototypes [ 8800 euro, 40 net days];
4.Hardware testing using software provided by the producer (ACube) [14400 euro, 30 net days];
5.Pre-certification CE certification [12.500 euro].
Those who are interested might want to contribute.
https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/campaigns/electrical-schematics-notebook-powerpc-motherboard-donation-campaign/
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Good luck! I of course have little interest in such a device (since ARM have competently filled that gap), but I am curious as to which PPC variant you plan to use?
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CPU: NXP T208x, e6500 64-bit Power Architecture with Altivec technology
4 x e6500 dual-threaded cores, low-latency backside 2MB L2 cache, 16GFLOPS x core
RAM: 2 x RAM slots for DDR3L SO-DIMM
VIDEO: Radeon HD
AUDIO: sound chip, audio in and audio out jacks
USB: 3.0 and 2.0 ports
STORAGE:
NVM Express (NVMe), M.2 2280 connector
2 x SATA
1 x SDHC card reader
NETWORK:
1 x ethernet RJ-45 connector
WiFi connectivity
Bluetooth connectivity
POWER: on-board battery charger and power-management
CHASSIS: standard notebook case 15,6"
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I have little interest in laptops but I wish you best of luck.
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@bloodline and toRus:
If your little interest amount at least at one dollar, please consider donate it. It is very cheap amount of money but ny donation will help this fab project to reach its goal! You're welcome in this project!
Remember that the team will release any design and Gerber CAD files for free as they believe in Open Source movement.
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CPU: NXP T208x, e6500 64-bit Power Architecture with Altivec technology
4 x e6500 dual-threaded cores, low-latency backside 2MB L2 cache, 16GFLOPS x core
RAM: 2 x RAM slots for DDR3L SO-DIMM
VIDEO: Radeon HD
AUDIO: sound chip, audio in and audio out jacks
USB: 3.0 and 2.0 ports
STORAGE:
NVM Express (NVMe), M.2 2280 connector
2 x SATA
1 x SDHC card reader
NETWORK:
1 x ethernet RJ-45 connector
WiFi connectivity
Bluetooth connectivity
POWER: on-board battery charger and power-management
CHASSIS: standard notebook case 15,6"
Will it run AOS 4.x ?
Not much point for me otherwise.
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Will it run AOS 4.x ?
Not much point for me otherwise.
No
It will run Linux PowerPC
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Only Linux PPC is promised, but it is produced By aCube. So if it materializes there is a good change it will have OS4 or any other amigsh OS.
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Will it run AOS 4.x ?
Not much point for me otherwise.
That is up to Hyperion.
But Timothy De Groot is aware of the project and has made the comment that the matter is open for discussion.
However, you need hardware before you can port software.
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CPU: NXP T208x, e6500 64-bit Power Architecture with Altivec technology
4 x e6500 dual-threaded cores, low-latency backside 2MB L2 cache, 16GFLOPS x core
RAM: 2 x RAM slots for DDR3L SO-DIMM
VIDEO: Radeon HD
AUDIO: sound chip, audio in and audio out jacks
USB: 3.0 and 2.0 ports
STORAGE:
NVM Express (NVMe), M.2 2280 connector
2 x SATA
1 x SDHC card reader
NETWORK:
1 x ethernet RJ-45 connector
WiFi connectivity
Bluetooth connectivity
POWER: on-board battery charger and power-management
CHASSIS: standard notebook case 15,6"
Given that this is supposed to be an "open source" laptop how did you manage to get licenses to use Radeon and PPC/Altivec ? Last time i checked these were proprietary. If the only open source component is Linux , whats the point ? might as well stick with Intel , which also runs Linux ? This sounds like making a rod for your own back.
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Given that this is supposed to be an "open source" laptop how did you manage to get licenses to use Radeon and PPC/Altivec ? Last time i checked these were proprietary. If the only open source component is Linux , whats the point ? might as well stick with Intel , which also runs Linux ? This sounds like making a rod for your own back.
AW! Come on!
We already have Altivec software both on AmigaOS and MorphOS so there will be no problem porting it.
Linux Drivers of this machine will be available Open.
Any Amiga Developer enough skilled could made a port for AmigaOS or MorphOS of its Graphic Chip drivers.
What's the problem if Linux Drivers are reversed engineered from original proprietary ones?
This machine is a very interesting beast, more powerful than any Amiga ever, and people calculated its cost will be from 600 to 900 Euro (I talk personally with Mr. innocenti of the Laptop Project Team on about price) and the fact it sports Laptop design, it just means you need no extra money to buy case, memory modules, power supply and GFX card.
If Hyperion and/or MorphOS team will realize a porting of their respective Operating Systems we'll have the coolest fastest Amiga ever and it will be reasonably cheaper than X1000 or X5000!!!
It will be same price of AmigaONE (850 Euro at its launch) but with enormously more horsepower and remember it will need no extra money to assembling it in order to make it run!
I cannot believe you will renounce donating from 1 to 5 Euro for that. i is a very small sum suitable for any people's pocket, and you will keep a door open to Amiga too, and contribute maintaining the dream alive...
At least it is like playing your state Lotto but with chances to win in the orders of 1 to hundreds, instead than impossible 1 on 47 millions as any lottery jackpot.
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I wouldn't start quoting prices just yet, and those seem a little on the low side for the components being considered, but I'm really hopeful that we can pull this off.
And I just exchanged a couple of messages with Roberto myself last night and this morning to confirm we were still planning on using MXM form factor video boards (which could allow for future upgradability).
As far as a comparison to X64 goes, this cpu is slightly slower than my i7 laptop, but supports twice as many threads.
Under Linux, it should be more than adequate.
And there is some interest amongst the community in maintaining big endian PPC linux distros (which would benefit all PPC Mac and AmigaOne users as well).
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Given that this is supposed to be an "open source" laptop how did you manage to get licenses to use Radeon and PPC/Altivec ? Last time i checked these were proprietary. If the only open source component is Linux , whats the point ? might as well stick with Intel , which also runs Linux ? This sounds like making a rod for your own back.
Since when has anyone needed a "licence" to buy an IC and use it?
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Since when has anyone needed a "licence" to buy an IC and use it?
I think you are missing the point . The architecture of the chips is not open. Can you supply complete schematics for the GPU and CPU? I think not.
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@ utri007
this looks like a great project by one of our respected hardware suppliers so I'll be donating for sure:hammer:
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I think you are missing the point . The architecture of the chips is not open. Can you supply complete schematics for the GPU and CPU? I think not.
Actually, schematics are not a problem.
The proposal calls for the use of a standard MXM video card, and Acube has offered to prepare the initial motherboard schematics (that would be the first funded step).
The list of components that has been posted elsewhere is reasonably accurate, but I wanted to clarify what was meant when "Radeon HD graphics" were mentioned. As this can be changed or upgraded.
There's no IP issues that I am aware of that would prevent moving forward.
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I think you are missing the point . The architecture of the chips is not open. Can you supply complete schematics for the GPU and CPU? I think not.
Why do they need to?
Schematics and everything you need to make your own laptop will be open, there are no laptops with Intel chips that are open that I know of.
https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/2016/10/about-open-source-hardware/
If you want an CPU with open schematics then start a bounty for a RISC-V laptop.
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Only Linux PPC is promised, but it is produced By aCube. So if it materializes there is a good change it will have OS4 or any other amigsh OS.
Just so we are clear, this is a bounty for an as yet unbuilt low power Linux box... I already have of of those (several in fact), it's called a Raspberry Pi. What does this bring to the table?
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Just so we are clear, this is a bounty for an as yet unbuilt low power Linux box... I already have of of those (several in fact), it's called a Raspberry Pi. What does this bring to the table?
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe I'm missing something but why do we want a Opensource PPC laptop? How is this an OpenSource PPC Laptop? Just because it runs Linux doesn't make it an OpenSource laptop in the way you are using the term.
This seems fraught with issues.
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I was thinking the same thing. Maybe I'm missing something but why do we want a Opensource PPC laptop? How is this an OpenSource PPC Laptop? Just because it runs Linux doesn't make it an OpenSource laptop in the way you are using the term.
This seems fraught with issues.
From our point of view, a lot of us probably dont care if the laptop is open source or not. Thats not the detail I am interested in. It would be neat to have schematics and layout files for it, but not my primary interest. That is one of their goals, which makes their usage of the term appropriate. Hopefully they can achieve that goal part of their goal, but if something they really cant do without sticks them with an NDA, and breaks their open design files plan, then that doesnt ruin my day so much...
What some of us here would be interested in is a PowerPC laptop that OS4 could be ported to run on. Thats my only interest.
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Just so we are clear, this is a bounty for an as yet unbuilt low power Linux box... I already have of of those (several in fact), it's called a Raspberry Pi. What does this bring to the table?
I have 2 or 3 pi's ad well. They are not laptops, and they do not run OS4. And there woukd be a lot more to do to fix either of those two weaknesses than with this poc laptop project. Sorry, but I dont even understand the comparison on context of potential laptip for Amigaos...
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I was thinking the same thing. Maybe I'm missing something but why do we want a Opensource PPC laptop? How is this an OpenSource PPC Laptop? Just because it runs Linux doesn't make it an OpenSource laptop in the way you are using the term.
This seems fraught with issues.
You must first build the computer and test it working with software in order to release the full design as Open Source...
At this moment the team almost decided the hardware components they want to use, ACube helped them to find the correct chip parts.
Now it is the moment to realize the first circuitry design and then assemble it for real in a PCB mainboard prototype.
You need weeks of hard job at Electronic CAD designing, and then hard work at manufacturing. This all requires money to repay the efforts. Or you believe a computer builds it all by itself?
If you want to help donating you are welcome.
If you think it is a fraud then stay on your own.
In the worst scenario that this project will remain just a Linux project, at least ACube will acquire the necessary know-how to realize a LapTop.
In the best scenario the Linux Laptop will be built and then Amiga Software Houses (Hyperion already announced they follow with interest this laptop project) will be free to decide to port their Operating System on it, and we will obtain brand new hardware up-to-date with modern specifications.
It is up to you decide.
If you want you may just donate only a single dollar.
I think you should have enough money to risk just a single dollar.
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You must first build the computer and test it working with software in order to release the full design as Open Source...
At this moment the team almost decided the hardware components they want to use, ACube helped them to find the correct chip parts.
Now it is the moment to realize the first circuitry design and then assemble it for real in a PCB mainboard prototype.
You need weeks of hard job at Electronic CAD designing, and then hard work at manufacturing. This all requires money to repay the efforts. Or you believe a computer builds it all by itself?
If you want to help donating you are welcome.
If you think it is a fraud then stay on your own.
In the worst scenario that this project will remain just a Linux project, at least ACube will acquire the necessary know-how to realize a LapTop.
In the best scenario the Linux Laptop will be built and then Amiga Software Houses (Hyperion already announced they follow with interest this laptop project) will be free to decide to port their Operating System on it, and we will obtain brand new hardware up-to-date with modern specifications.
It is up to you decide.
If you want you may just donate only a single dollar.
I think you should have enough money to risk just a single dollar.
Much as I'm looking forward to running OS4 on my PowerBook a modern higher specced laptop for OS4 and/or MorphOS would be even better.
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I have 2 or 3 pi's ad well. They are not laptops, and they do not run OS4.
There are plenty of laptop/mobile computing projects for the Raspberry Pi, and as for running AOS4, this project doesn't do that either. It may never do that.
If you want to run AOS4, then you would be better served by getting a cheap pc laptop and running the latest WinUAE. That is perfect for emulting a PPC Amiga, and excitingly/upsetingly (depending upon your position), it runs faster than my actual BlizzPPC.
And there woukd be a lot more to do to fix either of those two weaknesses than with this poc laptop project. Sorry, but I dont even understand the comparison on context of potential laptip for Amigaos...
This project is for a low power Linux Box, the Raspberry Pi already does that for £30.
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...If you want to run AOS4, then you would be better served by getting a cheap pc laptop and running the latest WinUAE. That is perfect for emulting a PPC Amiga, and excitingly/upsetingly (depending upon your position), it runs faster than my actual BlizzPPC....
Yes, but not as well as a recent AmigaOne, and with the limitations inherent with emulating older hardware.
And as to expense, I could get a 14" 64bit ARM laptop for a fraction of the cost, but it won't run PPC software.
But you ARE right, the only operating systems that will initially work with this are Linux based.
No one said we were practical people. :hammer:
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If you want to run AOS4, then you would be better served by getting a cheap pc laptop and running the latest WinUAE. That is perfect for emulting a PPC Amiga, and excitingly/upsetingly (depending upon your position), it runs faster than my actual BlizzPPC.
From what you say, it is clear that you never used a computer running AOS4.1 natively. I am using both extensively and, even if I appreciate the possibility to run (but not to enjoy) AOS4.1 on WinUAE on my laptop, I would NEVER put the two options on the same level from the user experience point-of-view.
The biggest difference is made by 2D compositing, 3D OpenGL ES, and Warp3D Nova (and old Warp3D is coming too), all hardware accelerated by out-of-the-shelf modern Radeon GPUs, a quantum leap forward in the right direction.
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Yes, but not as well as a recent AmigaOne, and with the limitations inherent with emulating older hardware.
I'm sorry, I am unaware of any "limitations inherent with emulating older hardware"?
WinUAE, is far more compatible with my Amiga software than any single real Amiga, and I have great difficulty finding a TV which will even accept a 15Khz RGB signal anymore... not to mention the nightmare that is 27 year old floppy disks.
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From what you say, it is clear that you never used a computer running AOS4.1 natively. I am using both extensively and, even if I appreciate the possibility to run (but not to enjoy) AOS4.1 on WinUAE on my laptop, I would NEVER put the two options on the same level from the user experience point-of-view.
The biggest difference is made by 2D compositing, 3D OpenGL ES, and Warp3D Nova (and old Warp3D is coming too), all hardware accelerated by out-of-the-shelf modern Radeon GPUs, a quantum leap forward in the right direction.
It's only a matter of time before UAE pass through drivers are made for those things.
Old hat Radeon vs 1080i. Which will perform better?
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It's only a matter of time before UAE pass through drivers are made for those things
Really looking forward to it!
However, I must admit I don't see it coming anytime soon, at least what, 5 to 10 years? Will it have the same performance as a native solution? I very much doubt it.
Personally, I am sick of waiting, and by supporting this PPC notebook project is the only thing I can do to (finger crossed) obtain a notebook that can give me the same user experience I have when I use my AOS4.1 machine, with all the doubts that comes with it (e.g. will it be AOS4.1 be ported to it, well, most probably yes).
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The biggest difference is made by 2D compositing, 3D OpenGL ES, and Warp3D Nova (and old Warp3D is coming too), all hardware accelerated by out-of-the-shelf modern Radeon GPUs, a quantum leap forward in the right direction.
but precisely, except 2d compositing, all these are features delivered by rather recent third party extensions to the os, provided by third party. so strictly speaking os4 under winuae must be delivering exatly the essential experience of the os as such.
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Really looking forward to it!
However, I must admit I don't see it coming anytime soon, at least what, 5 to 10 years? Will it have the same performance as a native solution, I very much doubt it.
Personally, I am sick of waiting, and by supporting this PPC notebook project is the only thing I can do to (finger crossed) obtain a notebook that can give me the same user experience I have when I use my AOS4.1 machine, with all the doubts that comes with it (e.g. will it be AOS4.1 be ported to it, well, most probably yes).
This notebook is cool because it's different and I might get one myself because I like new toys but I wonder how much itb would cost to pay someone to write a pass through driver for UAE?
I'd wager it'd be much less than what's needed to fund a whole computer to be designed and manufactured. On the latest generation nvidia or radeon hardware it'd be faster than a native driver for an old RadeonHD too I reckon.
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but precisely, except 2d compositing, all these are features delivered by rather recent third party extensions to the os, provided by third party. so strictly speaking os4 under winuae must be delivering exatly the essential experience of the os as such.
This third party software is pretty much standard on most systems that support it and compositing support isn't even available in the RadeonHD Lite driver included with FE. Most dealers seem to have been shipping the Enhancer package with X5000 systems and boards and most X1000 and Sam460 owners that want to get the most out of their hardware probably have it installed already.
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I'm sorry, I am unaware of any "limitations inherent with emulating older hardware"?
WinUAE, is far more compatible with my Amiga software than any single real Amiga, and I have great difficulty finding a TV which will even accept a 15Khz RGB signal anymore... not to mention the nightmare that is 27 year old floppy disks.
Uh, did you read the post above yours?
You're emulating old hardware (albeit faster), while better hardware is in use now.
All the points mentioned about modern video are the crux of the biscuit.
And while you could certainly enable better functionality (eventually) in UAE, its still just a downgrade from running native X64 software.
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It's only a matter of time before UAE pass through drivers are made for those things.?
I would really love to see Qemu's PCI-passthrough, VirtIO and SoC-Passthrough capabilities come to UAE. That would help with new hardware drivers before we could plug said hardware into an AmigaOS-native platform... Including stuff inside t2080, outside of t2080 in this laptop, or in Rpi, etc...
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There are plenty of laptop/mobile computing projects for the Raspberry Pi, and as for running AOS4, this project doesn't do that either. It may never do that.
Unfortunately actually is just AmigaOS that is not running on Raspberry Toy neither on any ARM architecture and we don't know if it will be ever available for...
If you prefer using AROS instead of AOS then prego... You are welcome.
If you want to run AOS4, then you would be better served by getting a cheap pc laptop and running the latest WinUAE. That is perfect for emulting a PPC Amiga, and excitingly/upsetingly (depending upon your position), it runs faster than my actual BlizzPPC.
Any solutions that run any Amiga-Like OSes sitting on top of the virus called Windows are not solutions. NEXT!
And sincerely simply running faster than BlizzardPPC at 120MHz, not even yet emulating PPC FPU even on i7 beasts is sure a little satisfaction... You are flying low pal...
For example my satisfaction will be seeing AmigaOS running NATIVE on multiple GHz cores at fastest speed with multimedia streaming Altivec coporocessor. X1000 and X5000 are too expensive and still AmigaOS is single core. This still not fulfill my dreams. What a pity.
This project is for a low power Linux Box, the Raspberry Pi already does that for £30.
My consideration in your post ended when you compared CPU: NXP T208x, e6500 64-bit Power Architecture with Altivec technology, 4 x e6500 dual-threaded cores, low-latency backside 2MB L2 cache, 16GFLOPS x core, with Raspberry toy...
If only you used RasPi clones like PandaLatte (that is even Windows10 compatible) or OrangPi (that sports Mini SATA connector and has twice horsepower than Raspberry at 49 euro) as examples for anyday computing like Amiga with Amiga feel of use experience, I could had understood... But Raspberry is a little underpowered card computer... No surprise its price is so cheap.
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I'm sorry, I am unaware of any "limitations inherent with emulating older hardware"?
display and input latency.
WinUAE, is far more compatible with my Amiga software than any single real Amiga
and you can run uae on a PPC laptop as well, to give you the same classic experience while hopefully running PPC software at least one order of magnitude faster.
, and I have great difficulty finding a TV which will even accept a 15Khz RGB signal anymore...
Europe is full of them. Outside europe then get an RGB to component converter. http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67929 or http://gglabs.us/node/983
not to mention the nightmare that is 27 year old floppy disks.
Get a gotek.
But neither of those two last points is relevant to a PPC laptop.
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display and input latency.
An issue maybe 13 years ago, but not today. I use UAE for music software, so I'm very aware of latency issues.
Even the cheapest PC hardware (or Mac) can run Amiga emulation without latency issues.
and you can run uae on a PPC laptop as well, to give you the same classic experience while hopefully running PPC software at least one order of magnitude faster.
Given the performance of the specified PPC CPU, I would would doubt the "order or magnitude faster" claim. I would grant you that using a PPC would certainly be an order of magnitude more expensive.
Europe is full of them. Outside europe then get an RGB to component converter. http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67929 or http://gglabs.us/node/983
Living in Europe (at least until the fascists push through their Brexit agenda), I am away of hardwarei could buy. But again I'm not prepared to waste valuable Apartment space on a TV for one purpose.
Get a gotek.
But neither of those two last points is relevant to a PPC laptop.
No, I was replying to Iggy who was trying (rather pathetically), to suggest that this Linux PPC laptop would be in any way better and more useful than an inexpensive PC (or a pretty MacBook) for use by an Amiga user.
This Linux PPC laptop is little more than a vanity project, which offers us as Amiga users very little.
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Living in Europe (at least until the fascists push through their Brexit agenda), I am away of hardwarei could buy. But again I'm not prepared to waste valuable Apartment space on a TV for one purpose.
Sorry but why you asked then?
This Linux PPC laptop is little more than a vanity project, which offers us as Amiga users very little.
Actually is a project by people who think PPC architecture has still things to say in the world of information technology.
But instead to struggling and crying (as in our Amiga preferred sport) that there are no firms building PPC computers, they squeezed oil on their elbows, and start working to build one themselves.
These guys (as being Linux ans Open Source supporters and believers), made in two years what entire Amiga Community was not capable to made in the last 10 years (i.e. start the project, made 4 appearances at crowded linux meetings to promote the idea, set up a forum site to discuss how to build computer with the help of the users of various OSes, they reached a consensus on specs and electronic parts after listening various users requests, started a ONLUS -so are called no profit orgs in Italy- and in the end contacted ACube in order to be helped in manufacturing). Now they started the funding campaing.
I think they deserve respect not to be considered fancy vanitY.
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I think they deserve respect not to be considered fancy vanitY.
a lot of stuff is based on vanity, especially around here. but so far i dont see anything i need to respect the ppc notebook initiative for so much. people have been considered this idea for a few years and came now to the conclusion that they need to delagate this to some professional electrical engineer, who of course needs to be paid for his service so they need to gather funds. thats fine, but not respectable.
i respect people like igor or gunnar who pull on complex project, others have deemed impossible.
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...No, I was replying to Iggy who was trying (rather pathetically), to suggest that this Linux PPC laptop would be in any way better and more useful than an inexpensive PC (or a pretty MacBook) for use by an Amiga user.
This Linux PPC laptop is little more than a vanity project, which offers us as Amiga users very little.
If I an viewed by someone living in an apartment in Europe as 'pathetic' while living in my own home (with more than enough room for whatever I care) so be it.
At least I would never make SUCH a weak statement as to refer to MacBooks as 'pretty'.
I mean, not to be snarky, but what next, advocating a nice Michael Kors watch to accessorize your new Rose Gold MacBook Air?
You could color coordinate everything with your iPhone, pretty AND pathetic (or pretty pathetic).
Frankly, I think that Microsoft's Surface is a better platform, and I'm looking forward to the rugged functionality of the a retro Thinkpad.
Because for follows function, and 'pretty' Macs have proven to lack utility.
You can continue to advocate the Pi, I notice its made no realistic impact on our community.
I'll continue to use 68K software on legacy and FPGA hardware, and NG software on dedicated platforms (which don't have to be that expensive).
And my PCs...they run Windows, Linux, and occasionally MacOS, but not AmigaOS, because as I've said, its silly to downgrade them that way.
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At least I would never make SUCH a gay statement as to refer to MacBooks as 'pretty'.
please keep such language out of things. This would suggest that being gay is somehow derogatory
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please keep such language out of things. This would suggest that being gay is somehow derogatory
JJ...changed the word you objected to.
However, my favorite Uncle was gay and I have a friend who is gay who refers to flamboyant gays as faggots.
Would you prefer that term?
Because that IS the direction I'm going.
People being caricatures of themselves, preferring style over substance, and judging a computing device on how 'pretty' it is, rather than how functional it is.
Of course, there is nothing wrong with personal style, just that when its taken to its extreme, you look more clownish than someone making a statement.
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The lack of response shows my verbiage may have been perceived as overly judgmental or hostile.
Admittedly, I DO tend toward excess, therefore with some apoplectic sense of the need for an apology, can I just plead the fifth and ask that we turn to the subject at hand?
Jim
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JJ...changed the word you objected to.
However, my favorite Uncle was gay and I have a friend who is gay who refers to flamboyant gays as faggots.
Would you prefer that term?
Because that IS the direction I'm going.
People being caricatures of themselves, preferring style over substance, and judging a computing device on how 'pretty' it is, rather than how functional it is.
Of course, there is nothing wrong with personal style, just that when its taken to its extreme, you look more clownish than someone making a statement.
To be fair this argument is bordering on I can't be racist I have black friends. But lets move on and back to the conversation at hand :)
I was being a bit of a tit and have used that word when I shouldn't many times because it was in common usage growing up, so have no right to pick others up on it.
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but
People being caricatures of themselves, preferring style over substance, and judging a computing device on how 'pretty' it is, rather than how functional it is.
on an amiga site?
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To be fair this argument is bordering on I can't be racist I have black friends. But lets move on and back to the conversation at hand :)
I was being a bit of a tit and have used that word when I shouldn't many times because it was in common usage growing up, so have no right to pick others up on it.
Actually, it closer to "I can use the 'n' word because I got a pass from my black buddy"...but you're right, lets move on.
And I don't use either word much, as I really do have close friends that are...uh, lets drop it.
Besides, I think you all get my point about color coordinating your laptop, watch, and phone without picking on any specific group.
'Pretty' laptops...this project we are discussing is based on a standard laptop case that is not as artistically refined as a MacBook, but the X64 version does have room for a separate graphics board which is nice.
And its a nice rugged case.
I've just received word from Roberto Innocenti that they don't want to promise the incorporation of an MXM card in production models yet.
But as plans for the prototypes currently calls for the gpu not to be incorporated onto the motherboard, a solution like that seems a strong possibility.
but
on an amiga site?
O..K, you DO have a point there.
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It's just over 20% at the moment. Hopefully it doesn't take too long to meet the first goal. I expect there'll be a core of supporters that have already decided to support each stage of the project. Hopefully as it once the schematic is more people will be more confident in the project succeeding and it will pick up more support as it progresses.
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I was being a bit of a tit and have used that word when I shouldn't many times because it was in common usage growing up, so have no right to pick others up on it.
That's discriminatory against all manner of garden visiting birds!
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That's discriminatory against all manner of garden visiting birds!
I sexually identify as a Eurasion blue tit and defend my right to fly over your car and drop hot sticky loads on the windscreen.
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I've just received word from Roberto Innocenti that they don't want to promise the incorporation of an MXM card in production models yet.
But as plans for the prototypes currently calls for the gpu not to be incorporated onto the motherboard, a solution like that seems a strong possibility.
I think the choice is either mxm-3 or solder gpu directly on motherboard. There are only a couple laptops doing mxm these days, so not a lot of variety in chassis selectiom to use mxm card, but mxm is preferable to decrease motherboard design and test effort, and gpu tech info is likely only by nda, so mxm slot is preferable for open design motherboard goal.
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That's discriminatory against all manner of garden visiting birds!
:roflmao::roflmao:
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Good thing this thread isn't drifting off-topic. ^_^
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a lot of stuff is based on vanity, especially around here. but so far i dont see anything i need to respect the ppc notebook initiative for so much. people have been considered this idea for a few years and came now to the conclusion that they need to delagate this to some professional electrical engineer, who of course needs to be paid for his service so they need to gather funds. thats fine, but not respectable.
i respect people like igor or gunnar who pull on complex project, others have deemed impossible.
This is exactly my point.
The Vampire and the associated FPGA CPU projects are of immediate and direct benefit to the Amiga community. Work was undertaken at the expense of the individuals involved. Two key things this project doesn't have.
If this was an FPGA laptop, where it had no CPU or GPU, but simply a couple of FPGAs (to be set up with any cores the user so desired) then it would be far more interesting and exciting to the Amiga community.
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This is exactly my point.
The Vampire and the associated FPGA CPU projects are of immediate and direct benefit to the Amiga community. Work was undertaken at the expense of the individuals involved. Two key things this project doesn't have.
If this was an FPGA laptop, where it had no CPU or GPU, but simply a couple of FPGAs (to be set up with any cores the user so desired) then it would be far more interesting and exciting to the Amiga community.
That would actually be interesting even outside the Amiga community.
Great idea, how it would interface with the display panel could prove tricky, and most chassis' these days rely on USB ports for connectivity.
But that is a really good, and original idea.
My apologies for the off base comments, that IS sharp.
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That would actually be interesting even outside the Amiga community.
Great idea, how it would interface with the display panel could prove tricky, and most chassis' these days rely on USB ports for connectivity.
But that is a really good, and original idea.
My apologies for the off base comments, that IS sharp.
The Vampire 500 V2 really isn't very far away from this idea already.
Simply add a LVDS for direct LCD display output, a USB hub, and some power management chips, then engineer it into a laptop chassis compatible form factor.
A cheaper and more interesting project, by a long way.
-Edit- I'm not trying to be negative, I just can't see any positives with respect to a PPC Linux laptop.
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The Vampire 500 V2 really isn't very far away from this idea already.
Simply add a LVDS for direct LCD display output, a USB hub, and some power management chips, then engineer it into a laptop chassis compatible form factor.
A cheaper and more interesting project, by a long way.
-Edit- I'm not trying to be negative, I just can't see any positives with respect to a PPC Linux laptop.
Yes, well I was being a bit of an ass, especially considering my core beliefs.
Beyond that, I know further PPC projects are not that practical.
I explored the idea awhile ago, and even got as far as enlisting Bill Buck who approached Freescale about the idea.
I am reasonably sure the PPC laptop will gain some traction, as the first step is quite likely to be financed.
And I'm one of the people that would want one.
Then again, I'm also one of the people that sees the value of the X5000 over the A1222.
But you're right that an FPGA laptop might have broader appeal.
I could see that being used for multiple cores, not just Amiga based projects.
Spreading out that way would offer an opportunity to enlist people from outside the Amiga community as well as having appeal to our core constituency.
The saving grace with the PPC project is the interest outside of the Amiga community, primarily from the Linux community.
But an FPGA laptop would have even broader appeal in multiple segments of the retro market.
Portable Amigas, Apples, Amstrads , heck I'm still in the 'A's'...the potential for your idea is massive.
Again, really sharp.
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The Vampire 500 V2 really isn't very far away from this idea already.
Simply add a LVDS for direct LCD display output, a USB hub, and some power management chips, then engineer it into a laptop chassis compatible form factor.
A cheaper and more interesting project, by a long way.
-Edit- I'm not trying to be negative, I just can't see any positives with respect to a PPC Linux laptop.
Some reality check. Do you understand that Vampire is not power full enough to general desktop use? This laptop has about 500x more horsepower than Vampire.
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Some reality check. Do you understand that Vampire is not power full enough to general desktop use? This laptop has about 500x more horsepower than Vampire.
and even more reality check:
there already are platforms out there that support laptops more powerful and have better software coverage than ppc laptop may ever receive. if there was any rational reason for a ppc laptop someone would have developed and be selling one. since none did and its even difficult to find interested audience to crowd fund such a project, it has obviously nothing to do with "reality".
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and even more reality check:
there already are platforms out there that support laptops more powerful and have better software coverage than ppc laptop may ever receive. if there was any rational reason for a ppc laptop someone would have developed and be selling one. since none did and its even difficult to find interested audience to crowd fund such a project, it has obviously nothing to do with "reality".
Maybe its not going to be made for the masses, but I don't care about that, I think it be nice to have real PowerPC laptop, it be nice to sit outside working some program when it really hot inside.
Yes I can emulate AmigaOS4.1 on X64 laptop, but speed and lack of features, I just won't be the same, I just love the idea of a laptop.
I guess it selfish thing, but looks like there are other who also like go places. even if did just run Linux this something I like to see, I like PowerPC to have some kind of future outside of embedded, it's nice CPU to program for, just like 680x0 CPU is.
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Maybe its not going to be made for the masses, but I don't care about that, I think it be nice to have real PowerPC laptop, it be nice to sit outside working some program when it really hot inside.
Yes I can emulate AmigaOS4.1 on X64 laptop, but speed and lack of features, I just won't be the same, I just low the idea of a laptop.
I guess it selfish thing, but looks like there are other who also like go places. even if did just run Linux this something I like to see, I like PowerPC to have some kind of future outside of embedded, it's nice CPU to program for just like 680x0 CPU is.
Thanks.
To address those two comments, when recently has any element of the Amiga community felt itself constrained by 'realities'?
Yes, there are more powerful platforms (than either PPC or FPGA).
Further, if I wanted a cheap laptop, I've been offered some great deals on ARM based units, and I can get X64 hardware at a pretty good price.
And emulation on ARM or X64 platforms certainly has its place, but native hardware really does it for me.
Luckily recently I've had older Apple PPC hardware to use that has remain surprisingly competitive.
While I'm an advocate of the X5000, a comparison between PowerMac G5 and more recent PPC system is enlightening.
BUT, I don't have a problem with higher price, limited production system aimed at our market.
And I'm open to anything Aeon, the Power Progrees Community, or the Apollo team dream up, including a potential FPGA laptop.
After all, I already have a few hundred invested in FPGA hardware and its a better solution for me than mainstream hardware or emulation.
Then there's the 'fun' aspect of having dedicated hardware in a format it wasn't originally offered in (ie portable).
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Some reality check. Do you understand that Vampire is not power full enough to general desktop use? This laptop has about 500x more horsepower than Vampire.
I have a PPC laptop already. It can run Linux and an old version of MacOS (10.5).
The laptop being proposed in this thread is based on an embedded CPU, it isn't even in the same class as my multicore 64bit Arm devices which run Debian Linux, Android and even Windows 10.
Put simply, this PPC Linux laptop doesn't bring anything to the party. It doesn't even run AOS4.
It you want to dream, don't dream so small.
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I have a PPC laptop already. It can run Linux and an old version of MacOS (10.5).
The laptop being proposed in this thread is based on an embedded CPU, it isn't even in the same class as my multicore 64bit Arm devices which run Debian Linux, Android and even Windows 10.
Put simply, this PPC Linux laptop doesn't bring anything to the party. It doesn't even run AOS4.
It you want to dream, don't dream so small.
Actually, its a 64 bit, four core, dual threaded cpu (for eight concurrent threads), which if you compare it to current ARM cpus doesn't come off that bad.
Although it WON'T run Windows 10.
Then again, I have better hardware than an ARM platform for that.
And it could run PPC NG software (if the OS' were ported), something ARM can only do by emulating older hardware.
And I have PPC Apple laptops too. I just don't run OSX on them, as the OS isn't terribly efficient.
Come to think of it, even though I had to struggle to get it to work, I don't use OSX on more powerful PPC desktops either, I use Linux.
It allows me to use more modern video cards than OSX supports.
And the PowerBook is based on the Radeon 9800 gpu, with a single cpu core.
While the proposed laptop will run slightly faster, with eight times the concurrent threads, and modern Radeon HD graphics (which I'd definitely prefer over an integrated gpu in an ARM Soc).
Although...the ARM hardware IS cheaper.
Either way, to each his own.
Dude, I much prefer having a discussion with you based on facts and statistics.
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Either way, to each his own.
sure. just it has nothing to do with any "reality check". according to what people write none behind two amigalike ppc oses has been contacted so far, to check if they would port their system.
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sure. just it has nothing to do with any "reality check". according to what people write none behind two amigalike ppc oses has been contacted so far, to check if they would port their system.
Actually...as I've already stated, Timothy De Groot has already made a positive statement about the fact that a port of OS4 would be considered.
And I already know at least one MorphOS developer who is interested in owning one.
Beyond that, many of the people supporting this are from the Linux community, and are more concerned with making sure that there is support there.
With more modern PPC based hardware, Linux ports may be maintained that support big endian PPC processors, benefiting the owners of Aeon and Acube hardware (as well as legacy Macs).
So your 'reality check' is purely your own reality, and there are times when I'm not sure we share the same one.
While I can interact rationally with bloodline, you don't appear to want to back up your opinion with facts.
And the fact is, there's interest in this, so its moving forward.
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(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/48/c9/c2/48c9c289b4e83f2179d2b28d0b31fa2b.jpg)
The only PPC laptop I need, and a fine piece of hardware it is!
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(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/48/c9/c2/48c9c289b4e83f2179d2b28d0b31fa2b.jpg)
The only PPC laptop I need, and a fine piece of hardware it is!
I always liked the way those looked and rather wish they were supported by MorphOS.
I do have an iBook, not as stylish (I actually had to avoid 'pretty', so now I'm really feeling foolish), but a bit more powerful (with a 1.42 GHz G4 and R300 graphics).
Apple PPC laptops were actually pretty solid, and I'd love to see OS4 support for them, as the models that are supported under MorphOS run great.
Again, what we are proposing is slightly faster than the fastest Powerbook, with eight times the potential number of concurrent threads, and more modern graphics. As well as using a 64 bit, rather than a 32 bit, processor.
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39.02% and counting.
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Well, everybody can donate one buck, can't he?
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Ugh, the clam-shell iBook whilst novel for its time, was crappy even back then, due to the 800 x 600 screen. Once they went to 1024 x 768 it was usable. And I prefer the white polycarb finish.
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I always liked the way those looked
it always looked like a toilet seat to me..
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it always looked like a toilet seat to me..
Interesting comparison...well you've ruined that for me. :)
In the meanwhile, I'm still waiting for an announcement that the initial 4000 euros has been turned over to Acube.