Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Vlabguy1 on June 21, 2017, 12:49:43 AM
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Is this old news? I know I have not been keeping up on the "new" Amiga stuff but is this thing really... real?
R.
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Is this old news? I know I have not been keeping up on the "new" Amiga stuff but is this thing really... real?
R.
I'd rather buy a second hand Mac Mini or PowerBook. I reckon most others who like OS4 but can't afford an X5000 would too.
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Is this old news? I know I have not been keeping up on the "new" Amiga stuff but is this thing really... real?
R.
Yes, it is very real! It has been shown at several shows and online!
BTW, nicholas "reckons" wrong for me and several others.
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Yes, it is very real! It has been shown at several shows and online!
BTW, nicholas "reckons" wrong for me and several others.
We shall see.......
And most > several. ;)
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The hardware made it's first appearance back in 2015 but OS4 isn't quite ready yet so it's not on sale yet.
A1222 in action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPdr7MaGvLo
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I saw it at Amiwest back in 2016. Here's a photo I took
(http://ece.uprm.edu/~raymond/Amiga/Tabor.jpg)
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@RNSpeed
Obviously this board is real and had been seen running at shows so it's fine. However, even Troika's Amy '05 board had a prototype board with pictures!!!
http://amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=46687
... and some photo links still exist!
http://www.webalice.it/fulvio.peruggi/public/Pegasos&MorphOS/Articles/07_PianetaAmiga2006/amy05.jpg
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I'd rather buy a second hand Mac Mini or PowerBook. I reckon most others who like OS4 but can't afford an X5000 would too.
I'd rather an OS4 port for the PS3 than a Mac Mini.
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I'd rather buy a second hand Mac Mini or PowerBook. I reckon most others who like OS4 but can't afford an X5000 would too.
Those old Mac computers are very outdated hardware. It cannot match A1222 in any aspect if we go trought hardware specification.
For example:
FrontSideBus:
Mac Mini: 167 MHz
A1222: 400 MHz
Memory subsystem:
Mac Mini: Max 1G 333 MHz DDR SDRAM
A1222: Max 8GB DDR3 800 MHz
Expansion GFX card:
Mac Mini: old limited AGP card
A1222: modern PCI Express 4x with any RadeON cards that has a driver support for AOS4
Disk interface:
Mac Mini: Ultra ATA/100
A1222: SATA 2.6 compliant controller
Network:
Mac Mini: 1x 10/100 Base-T
A1222: 2x 1000 Base-T
Overall IMHO CPU is better in Mac Mini at the moment since it has Altivec, bigger caches and can range to 1.5 GHz. But CPU in A1222 is a dual core issue in contrast to Mac Mini which has only single core. When AOS4 start to support second core A1222 with P1022 CPU will outperform PowerPC G4 (7447A) CPU in Mac Mini.
However it is really questionable if Mac Mini CPU can be faster than A1222 right now since it has much slower memory, system bus, disc subsystem and in the end bus to graphic card. IMHO it cant right now.
Also you can have only 64 MB GFX RAM on Mac Mini. You can install 2 GB GDDR5 card in A1222. I have Asus R7 250 with 2 GB GDDR5 in my A1222 and it works great.
-Dooz
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Some A1222 Tabor motherboard in action on foto with RadeON R7 250 2 GB GDDR5:
[ATTACH]5706[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]5707[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]5708[/ATTACH]
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Depending on price I see this as a possible purchase. OS4 on emulation sucks even on powerful hardware.
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I'd rather an OS4 port for the PS3 than a Mac Mini.
Do you really think you could cope with 256MB of RAM in desktop use? You might get a browser started, but it'll kill it if you try to open any page nowadays :P
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I'd rather an OS4 port for the PS3 than a Mac Mini.
Not enough memory.
...
However it is really questionable if Mac Mini CPU can be faster than A1222 right now since it has much slower memory, system bus, disc subsystem and in the end bus to graphic card. IMHO it cant right now.
A 1.5 GHz G4 versus the cpu in the A1222? Tough call, but it probably goes to the G4 (as long as SMP is not a factor).
And in a similar argument, the X5000 can't outperform a PowerMac G5, even though the G5 has slower memory, expansion slots, and hard drives.
Also, both Apple options would cost a small fraction of the Aeon hardware.
The primary advantage of the Aeon boards is that they can be had new.
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@Iggy
Still enough for The Last of Us and Split Second. Arcade racers are a dying breed and Split Second is awesome and full of fun explosions. Why regular racing games are churned out year on year while games like Outrun 2, Split Second and Twisted Metal get left on the shelf I'll never understand. Forza, Project Cars and GT just bore me and F1 games are too stressful. Nothing has beaten The Last of Us for multiplayer or the story on the single player.
Until Spiderman, TLOU 2, Days Gone and Sonic Mania are out there are no good reasons to get a PS4 (Pro). But even then where's the arcade racer?
In regards to the A1222 (rubbish name by the way) it will definitely be better than an old Mac Mini.
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@Iggy
Still enough for The Last of Us and Split Second. Arcade racers are a dying breed and Split Second is awesome and full of fun explosions. Why regular racing games are churned out year on year while games like Outrun 2, Split Second and Twisted Metal get left on the shelf I'll never understand. Forza, Project Cars and GT just bore me and F1 games are too stressful. Nothing has beaten The Last of Us for multiplayer or the story on the single player.
Until Spiderman, TLOU 2, Days Gone and Sonic Mania are out there are no good reasons to get a PS4 (Pro). But even then where's the arcade racer?
In regards to the A1222 (rubbish name by the way) it will definitely be better than an old Mac Mini.
Interesting conclusion about the PS3, as to the A1222, we will just have to wait to see the benchmarks. The primary advantage being discreet graphics.
And you're right, the name sucks.
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Supposedly, it might come out in October this year. The boards themselves have existed for at least 1.5 - 2 years and were available to beta testers, but OS4 development isn't exactly known for being speedy.
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Do you really think you could cope with 256MB of RAM in desktop use? You might get a browser started, but it'll kill it if you try to open any page nowadays :P
Not enough memory
It's no worse than the Phase 5 PowerPC boards.
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It's no worse than the Phase 5 PowerPC boards.
256MB was plenty for 68k Amiga OS in the late nineties but it would be too restrictive for PPC Amiga OS two decades later.
I started out with 256MB with my A1XE but felt much more comfortable when I upgraded to 512MB and eventually ended up with 1GB just to make sure I'd never run out of memory.
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The PS3 could run Yellow Dog Linux before the infamous firmware update that removed the feature. It also works fine as a backup web browser if an emergency. Even the PS2 with Music Generator 2 can produce some great music so I really don't see that RAM is a major limitation to usability.
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I'm curious how the A1222 FPU issue turned out, whether it means everything needed recompiling or they got around it with kernel tricks. Assuming it isn't too bad, I would have bought one by now.
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I'm curious how the A1222 FPU issue turned out, whether it means everything needed recompiling or they got around it with kernel tricks. Assuming it isn't too bad, I would have bought one by now.
Do you mean if it was available you would have already bought it?
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Do you mean if it was available you would have already bought it?
Yes possibly, depending on price and whether the discussion about whether the FPU issue was actually a big problem, meaning big compatibility problems or terrible performance. There was a lot of talk about this when it was announced and I haven't heard much more about it since.
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I think the issue is overblown. FPU's aren't useful for most regular computing, and even then, emulating instructions shouldn't be a big deal if done right.
I guess we'll find out once the NDA's are lifted, since no one is allowed to talk about AmigaOS on the A1222 at the moment. I don't know why they have NDA's for such a niche platform...I guess it makes the 4 people that are beta testing it feel important, when they can keep secrets from the 7 people that are planning on buying it :lol:
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LOL JimmiG I be one of the 7
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Yes possibly, depending on price and whether the discussion about whether the FPU issue was actually a big problem, meaning big compatibility problems or terrible performance. There was a lot of talk about this when it was announced and I haven't heard much more about it since.
Here's the video I linked earlier in the thread with ScummVM, UAE and Emotion video player on OS4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPdr7MaGvLo
Another video of Tower 57. The Amiga port uses pure software rendering.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS4Eyfywbng
This guy has done a bunch of videos demonstrating Linux on the A1222.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxAPb9mmyCRYYGPOj_gnbWQ
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@amiadudeorwat
Unfinished product benchmarks are always not welcome. That kind of benchmarks are wrong and not really represent the real possibilities of new product like A1222.
As a beta tester I also dont see the purpose of premature benchmarks. One day something is slow and not acceptable, then developers do something and you get dramatic increase of performance or new possibilities. When the product is finished we (both beta testers and regular users) will see the real benchmarks. Even then the process is not finished, we will just have minimal acceptable level for all users.
I also think that FPU issue is overblown. In fact from the tecnical point of view A1222 has a double precision FPU integrated inside P1022 CPU. Its there and it is functional. Software just needs to use it if required. Its not like A-Eon is delivering system without FPU. If there is a high demand for speed we will see recompiled old software or if not it will work under emulation. This is also valid for new software. For 3D games right approuch is to use possibilities of modern GFX cards over PCIe bus. Only that approuch will produce excellent results....not FPU.
At least this is how I think.....
I think the issue is overblown. FPU's aren't useful for most regular computing, and even then, emulating instructions shouldn't be a big deal if done right.
I guess we'll find out once the NDA's are lifted, since no one is allowed to talk about AmigaOS on the A1222 at the moment. I don't know why they have NDA's for such a niche platform...I guess it makes the 4 people that are beta testing it feel important, when they can keep secrets from the 7 people that are planning on buying it :lol:
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i guess it makes the 4 people that are beta testing it feel important, when they can keep secrets from the 7 people that are planning on buying it :lol:
lmao
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It should be economy priced, compared to previous Amiga OS mobos.
Price has been promised to be less than 400%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!8364;, just wondering what I'll get in that price
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It's no worse than the Phase 5 PowerPC boards.
It's no more than on those == not enough
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I think the issue is overblown. FPU's aren't useful for most regular computing, and even then, emulating instructions shouldn't be a big deal if done right.
I guess we'll find out once the NDA's are lifted, since no one is allowed to talk about AmigaOS on the A1222 at the moment. I don't know why they have NDA's for such a niche platform...I guess it makes the 4 people that are beta testing it feel important, when they can keep secrets from the 7 people that are planning on buying it :lol:
Unless a solution is implemented in the OS, software packages using floating point instructions will either have to be recompiled or they will fail to work.
Emulating the instruction with code based on the alternate fpu is not that big a deal, but trapping and translation IS.
At least initially, I don't anticipate that this will be a particularly efficient process, so we are likely to see specific binaries being compiled for the A1222.
And this is not THAT big a deal, but it IS a PITA.
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Unless a solution is implemented in the OS, software packages using floating point instructions will either have to be recompiled or they will fail to work.
Emulating the instruction with code based on the alternate fpu is not that big a deal, but trapping and translation IS.
At least initially, I don't anticipate that this will be a particularly efficient process, so we are likely to see specific binaries being compiled for the A1222.
And this is not THAT big a deal, but it IS a PITA.
This was more what I was wondering about. If software still runs but it's just theoretically slower than it otherwise would be then that's ok-assuming it's not horribly slow. But if everything needed recompiling then that's a big problem and I might not be interested. I wasn't looking for benchmarks necessarily.
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This was more what I was wondering about. If software still runs but it's just theoretically slower than it otherwise would be then that's ok-assuming it's not horribly slow. But if everything needed recompiling then that's a big problem and I might not be interested. I wasn't looking for benchmarks necessarily.
No one knows what the impact of the work around will be, so once OS4 is released for the A1222, THEN we will finally have a answer to this well worn topic.
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Yes, it is very real! It has been shown at several shows and online!
BTW, nicholas "reckons" wrong for me and several others.
Wow, very cool.
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I saw it at Amiwest back in 2016. Here's a photo I took
(http://ece.uprm.edu/~raymond/Amiga/Tabor.jpg)
Well I figured the board was real..but I was more curious if the A1222 "folding" machine was real.. I think that is pretty cool, imo.
R.
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What is the reason for going with the P1022 which has the E500v2 core in the first place, just price? Is it that big of a deal to switch to one of the other QorIQ chips with the E500mc core or just too expensive which would negate the low price target of this board?
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What is the reason for going with the P1022 which has the E500v2 core in the first place, just price? Is it that big of a deal to switch to one of the other QorIQ chips with the E500mc core or just too expensive which would negate the low price target of this board?
If you want e500mc core than you must go to quad core P3041 or P2040. There are no dual core e500mc CPUs. Another "advantage" of P1022 is that it has integrated sound card into the SoC. Otherwise you have to add PCIe slots on the board or integrate sound chip on the motherboard which will result with more complexity and development cost of the board. If you add PCIe slots then you cannot have mini-ITX format of the motherboard any more.
All above can increase cost of the board and then it will not be "low cost" any more. There are for sure other factors that will influence the cost that we do not know about. If I remember correctly the mentioned price for motherboard was 400 EUR.
Only the price change for CPU from P1022 to P3041 will cost more than 100 EUR more for the motherboard itself without anything else.
P1022 = 1000 @ US$54.29 each
P3041 = 1000 @ US$181.70 each
And all of this because of problem that we still do not know if will affect performance in a real world applications. In fact P1022 have double precision FPU integrated. In this kind of "low cost" product everything counts! Maybe next mid level cost product will have more powerful CPU.
Unfortunately "T" series of CPUs was not available for delivery at the time when design was started.
-Dooz
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If you want e500mc core than you must go to quad core P3041 or P2040. There are no dual core e500mc CPUs. Another "advantage" of P1022 is that it has integrated sound card into the SoC. Otherwise you have to add PCIe slots on the board or integrate sound chip on the motherboard which will result with more complexity and development cost of the board. If you add PCIe slots then you cannot have mini-ITX format of the motherboard any more.
All above can increase cost of the board and then it will not be "low cost" any more. There are for sure other factors that will influence the cost that we do not know about. If I remember correctly the mentioned price for motherboard was 400 EUR.
Only the price change for CPU from P1022 to P3041 will cost more than 100 EUR more for the motherboard itself without anything else.
P1022 = 1000 @ US$54.29 each
P3041 = 1000 @ US$181.70 each
And all of this because of problem that we still do not know if will affect performance in a real world applications. In fact P1022 have double precision FPU integrated. In this kind of "low cost" product everything counts! Maybe next mid level cost product will have more powerful CPU.
Unfortunately "T" series of CPUs was not available for delivery at the time when design was started.
-Dooz
Thanks that does explain things a bit better, I didn't know about the integrated audio codec. The P2040 at 1.2GHz is about double the price around $125 plus they would have to do something about audio, pushing up the final price up at least another 100.
We'll see how the performance and compatibility are when the NDA is lifted.
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So will a Tabor outperform a 1.67GHz PowerBook G4 that costs a quarter of the price?
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So will a Tabor outperform a 1.67GHz PowerBook G4 that costs a quarter of the price?
Don't talk sense to them, Nik.
After all, they're busy making foolish comments about e500mc cored products while ignoring the fact that there are cheaper dual and quad e5500 core cpus that could be used.
Again, Aeon has a LOT of processors that they've already purchased that they HAVE to put on something.
Someone has to pay for the decision to invest in the development of Tabor and the purchase of those processors. Might as well be OS4 users (because the Linux users appear to want to build their own 64 bit PPC laptop). :hammer:
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So will a Tabor outperform a 1.67GHz PowerBook G4 that costs a quarter of the price?
If you can find one that still works (as laptops, they got lots of abuse) and the batteries aren't dead. Not to mention the caps are ready to leak!
buy new, and miss all that 20year old stuff!
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Thanks that does explain things a bit better, I didn't know about the integrated audio codec. The P2040 at 1.2GHz is about double the price around $125 plus they would have to do something about audio, pushing up the final price up at least another 100.
We'll see how the performance and compatibility are when the NDA is lifted.
I investigated how much will *really* cost to buy those CPUs in high volume:
P1022 @ 1.2 GHz ($88.30)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/p1022nse2mhb/nxp-semiconductors
P2041 @ 1.5 GHz ($214.06)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/p2041nsn7pnc/nxp-semiconductors
P2041 @ 1.2 GHz ($182.22)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/p2041nsn7mmc/nxp-semiconductors
P3041 @ 1.5 GHz ($256.03)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/p3041nse7pnc/nxp-semiconductors
Yes, obviously it is not possible to have $182 CPU in 400 EUR A1222. Maybe a little bit cheaper if you order 1000 units but those are approx. prices. As a user I understand that some people would like something like P3041 @ 1.5 GHz but that is not possible for A1222 type of price range in a given moment when A1222 was designed.
-Dooz
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I investigated how much will *really* cost to buy those CPUs in high volume:
P1022 @ 1.2 GHz ($88.30)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/p1022nse2mhb/nxp-semiconductors
P2041 @ 1.5 GHz ($214.06)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/p2041nsn7pnc/nxp-semiconductors
P2041 @ 1.2 GHz ($182.22)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/p2041nsn7mmc/nxp-semiconductors
P3041 @ 1.5 GHz ($256.03)
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/p3041nse7pnc/nxp-semiconductors
Yes, obviously it is not possible to have $182 CPU in 400 EUR A1222. Maybe a little bit cheaper if you order 1000 units but those are approx. prices. As a user I understand that some people would like something like P3041 @ 1.5 GHz but that is not possible for A1222 type of price range in a given moment when A1222 was designed.
-Dooz
I'm not disagreeing with you but I was referring to this P2040 here at $126 for 60. It could be the wrong package type or any other thing wrong plus the lack of audio as mentioned.
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/nxp-usa-inc/P2040NSE7HLC/P2040NSE7HLC-ND/5155398
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I'm not disagreeing with you but I was referring to this P2040 here at $126 for 60. It could be the wrong package type or any other thing wrong plus the lack of audio as mentioned.
https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/nxp-usa-inc/P2040NSE7HLC/P2040NSE7HLC-ND/5155398
Yes of course, there are many suppliers and price can vary. But you cannot use cheaper P2040 because it does not have any network (NIC) integrated into the SoC. Also it does not have L2 cache. You must use 2041 and it is more expensive then because you are getting then bunch of NIC integrated ;-) That is why some CPU QorIQ models are sometimes expensive.
Complete Pxxx series is problematic for desktop and only few CPU models can somehow fit in our desktop use.....and not without compromises.
Interesting is also that in fact P1022 is the only representative in complete "P" series that have sound and gfx integrated into the SoC. And all that for the low price tag and a very good performance which is comparable to G3 at 1.3 GHz raw CPU power. The compromise for P1022 was non-standard integrated FPU for which we will see if that is a problem in the future. If that is not a problem then this P1022 is perfect choice since "T" series was not ready at the time when A1222 was designed.
-Dooz
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So will a Tabor outperform a 1.67GHz PowerBook G4 that costs a quarter of the price?
No - it will not. At least not in pure CPU crunching. I published dnetc OGR-NG benchmark on this link:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=41954&forum=33#799349
SAM460EX 1.1 GHz: 11,708,929 nodes/sec
A1222 1.2 GHz: 13,837,837 nodes/sec
Mac mini G4 1.5 GHz: 14,881,017 nodes/sec
Those are OGR-NG numbers that do not use Altivec present in G4. Disapointing is how despite bigger L1/L2 caches and 300 MHz faster clock G4 can score only about 1000 nodes/sec more against A1222. A1222 is a real winner here and SAM460 is not very far.
In real world applications A1222 is probably faster then the fastest Mac mini G4 at 1.5 GHz. Probably faster FSB and memory is doing some good to A1222 performance. Not to mention what GFX performance will show in a real world. Also P1022 CPU is dual core which is still not exploited on OS4/MorphOS.
Now I must find some FPU benchmark under Linux on A1222 ;-) Any suggestions from anyone what I can use?
-Dooz
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If you can find one that still works (as laptops, they got lots of abuse) and the batteries aren't dead. Not to mention the caps are ready to leak!
buy new, and miss all that 20year old stuff!
Thankfully Hyperion don't share your typically American consumerist view.
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Thankfully Hyperion don't share your typically American consumerist view.
Hyperion is releasing AmigaOS 4.1 for Apple G4 laptops?
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I agree with SACC-Guy. Waiting on bated breath for the Tabor.
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Thankfully Hyperion don't share your typically American consumerist view.
I just think it's great when you get all judgy!
BTW, I own a G4 1.42 DP (FW800) and a G4 1.25 (MDD2003) and a G4 1.67 1.5 mac mini. (all used)
but I bought a new powerbook g4 1.67 laptop...yep it's dead jim!
Maybe you don't know it all.
and yes, I tried morphos, but iggy/Jim talked me out of using it over at morphzone...
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Hyperion is releasing AmigaOS 4.1 for Apple G4 laptops?
Yep.
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...
FPU's aren't useful for most regular computing,
...
Hmmm - what do you mean by 'regular computing'?
Gaming?
Surfing and writing e-mails?
Or what?
For me 'regular computing' is e.g. using productive software like 3d-CAD (e.g. DynaCadd; mech. engineering), CNC, rendering of 3d photorealistic scenes and animating them (e.g. Maxon Cinema 4d), robotics and the like...
And as far as I'm aware, most of them require FPUs or at least gain massively from using an FPU...
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Yep.
This is excellent news! Do you have any other details about it? When will be available?
-Dooz
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Hmmm - what do you mean by 'regular computing'?
Gaming?
Surfing and writing e-mails?
Or what?
For me 'regular computing' is e.g. using productive software like 3d-CAD (e.g. DynaCadd; mech. engineering), CNC, rendering of 3d photorealistic scenes and animating them (e.g. Maxon Cinema 4d), robotics and the like...
And as far as I'm aware, most of them require FPUs or at least gain massively from using an FPU...
Yes, regular computing would be emails, word processing, listening to music, watching videos, light photo editing etc. 3D rendering and engineering software are exactly the type of niche software that benefits from an FPU. But that's not "regular computing". Maybe it is for you, but not for most computer users and certainly not for the target market of the A1222. Surely you realize that?
Although if there's enough demand for it, I guess the software could be re-compiled for the A1222 FPU...It does have one.
The X5000 would also be a poor choice for 3D rendering etc., especially under AmigaOS as it doesn't support SMT. You'd get maybe 20-30x the performance from a $400 8-core x86 CPU running Linux or Windows. Even more if the tasks could be accelerated by a GPU. If you're a professional, you know time is money. More projects completed in a shorter time means you earn more...
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No one knows what the impact of the work around will be, so once OS4 is released for the A1222, THEN we will finally have a answer to this well worn topic.
In the first video Rob posted, Entwickler X made a comment about a SPE-version vs the Sam460.
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This is excellent news! Do you have any other details about it? When will be available?
-Dooz
I just know that they are working on it as we speak and it already boots to workbench successfully.
Great news for people that don't live in colonies that became wealthy off the back of enslavement and murder. ;)
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I just know that they are working on it as we speak and it already boots to workbench successfully.
Great news for people that don't live in colonies that became wealthy off the back of enslavement and murder. ;)
Like UK ? :)
They had it booting on Macs years ago iirc ? Its too late anyway....
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Like UK ? :)
They had it booting on Macs years ago iirc ? Its too late anyway....
Da li je Velika Britanija kolonija?
Been a long time since the French ruled us. ;)
Yes it's probably too late but an OS4 laptop will be brilliant. Octamed doesn't work on MorphOS so I'm happy. :)
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Da li je Velika Britanija kolonija?
Been a long time since the French ruled us. ;)
Yes it's probably too late but an OS4 laptop will be brilliant. Octamed doesn't work on MorphOS so I'm happy. :)
Nije ali je jedna od najvecih kolonijalnih sila sto je cini jednom od uzroka problema, samim tim mnogo gore nego sama kolonija.
I think hyperion should spend more time on os3.x development, wishing it is not going to make it happen unfortunately....
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Nije ali je jedna od najvecih kolonijalnih sila sto je cini jednom od uzroka problema, samim tim mnogo gore nego sama kolonija.
Slazemo se.
I think hyperion should spend more time on os3.x development, wishing it is not going to make it happen unfortunately....
We agree on this too.
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Yes, regular computing would be emails, word processing, listening to music, watching videos, light photo editing etc. 3D rendering and engineering software are exactly the type of niche software that benefits from an FPU.
Yeah - bummer!
Back in the days when I started to tinker with computers there was no internet and most off-the-shelf computers came with just monochrome video (Hercules) and regarding audio, all they could do was "beep".
So they were not really well suited for listening to music, watching videos, light photo editing etc. - and overpriced.
As I was studying mech. engineering back then my focus obviously was on CAE, CAD, CNC, CAM and 3D-rendering/animating (e.g. for 'collision investigations' - virtually assembling and animating the 3d-parts to see if they collide with other parts when in motion).
But that's not "regular computing". Maybe it is for you, but not for most computer users and certainly not for the target market of the A1222.
From an designing engineers perspective it actually IS "regular computing", as we're usually working at least 8 hours per day with such software. Other computer work (like e.g. e-mailing or word processing) is easily regarded as annoying, as it takes our minds off 'the really important things'.
And yes, I somewhat forgot that this thread is about the A1222, as I was thinking of software that benefits from FPUs.
Surely you realize that?
Now that you mention it...
;)
Today I'm walking straight up to my retirement and I somehow get the feeling that I'm no longer part of the target audience of the computer industry. Today, the majority of computer users obviously uses their computers "just" for gaming, listening to music, watching videos, e-mailing or word processing or even worse: for the so-called 'social networking'.
I'm one of the dinosaurs who sees all this as a massive waste of time and mainly regards the use of productivity software as 'serious computing'.
I used to play rarely, and if so, I played something like FA-18 Interceptor, Falcon, F1GP or a good Flipper simulation - once or twice per year. But the last time I did so is long ago- at least 5 years...
Although if there's enough demand for it, I guess the software could be re-compiled for the A1222 FPU...It does have one.
I don't think so.
ISD Marketing, Ditek International and CRP Koruk were DynaCadd owners and none of them is active in the Amiga market anymore, if they still exist at all.
The same situation for Cinema 4d - Maxon left the Amiga market ages ago and stopped support for it. My heart starts bleeding in the face of the possibilities the current version of Cinema 4D offers: Just look at the cutaway drawing of a wheel at https://www.maxon.net/en-gb/products/cinema-4d/features/modeling/polygon-modeling/ - that's what I'd like to be able to do on an modern Amiga!
Too sad Maxon left the Amiga market!
The X5000 would also be a poor choice for 3D rendering etc., especially under AmigaOS as it doesn't support SMT.
Did you mean SMT or SMP? As "multithreading" seems to be part of SMP...
If I understand correctly what Thomas Frieden states in the Hyperion Entertainment Blog - Development News (http://blog.hyperion-entertainment.biz/?p=1184),
hardware (CPU) needs to have several cores and software (OS) has to support SMP:
Original by Thomas Frieden:
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When looking at SMP support, we need to take actual processor technology into account.
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Later on, chip manufacturers added additional so called “cores” to one physical processor.
A very recent development is the ability of such individual “cores” to execute more than one instruction stream in parallel. We call those instruction streams threads.
The development of SMP support has been separated into several distinctive steps. The first step was to rewrite the scheduler in C for easier accessibility.
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The second, more fundamental step was to decouple the scheduler from its current data structures.
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This has now been achieved. The current development build uses a scheduler that no longer uses the original AmigaOS data structures, but a structure that is replicated for each core.
The next step is to have each core in the development system (currently, the X1000) to run the scheduler. Test code will then start tasks on the different cores and see how they behave. We have already experimented with this and the results look promising. The tests basically showed that the lockout mechanism for Forbid works as planned.
As a final step, the balancing will be introduced, which then finalizes the first implementation of SMP support in AmigaOS.
You'd get maybe 20-30x the performance from a $400 8-core x86 CPU running Linux or Windows. Even more if the tasks could be accelerated by a GPU.
Is it asked too much to be able to have this on NG Amiga systems?
The X5000 actually HAS more than one core - and Hyperion is working on SMP for AOS.
If you're a professional, you know time is money. More projects completed in a shorter time means you earn more...
Yeah, but being close to retirement I also know that money isn't all that matters in a human life.
There are also things like love, fun and the like...
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I just think it's great when you get all judgy!
BTW, I own a G4 1.42 DP (FW800) and a G4 1.25 (MDD2003) and a G4 1.67 1.5 mac mini. (all used)
but I bought a new powerbook g4 1.67 laptop...yep it's dead jim!
Maybe you don't know it all.
and yes, I tried morphos, but iggy/Jim talked me out of using it over at morphzone...
I did? I don't remember that. :laughing:
I sourced two of the hi-res 128mb vram models and sent them to friends in Europe (one to Wiktor Glowacki).
I like the PowerBook, its a solid performer. I'd even recommend the 1.42 GHz iBook (even if it only has 32mb of vram).
Not to mention that the last PowerBook I saw posted for sale was going for 80 euros.
And faster memory hasn't given the X5000 and edge over the PowerMac G5 (which as far as I know has better memory throughput), so there is no proof that the memory used in Tabor will be a significant improvement.
You oversold the X5000 as being a G5 killer, and now you're doing the same with a G3 level processor based board.
Why not just accept Aeon hardware for what it is, and for that fact that it's new?
The boards do offer some useful features, like PCIe expansion.
I agree with SACC-Guy. Waiting on bated breath for the Tabor.
Is that the fishy odor I smell?
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People should stop being so critical and take (or ignore, I guess) what's on the way. It's such a thin thread, the continuation of AmigaOS 4 and new hardware. I've owned several Amiga 1000s, 2000s, 1200s, and a SAM 440ep-Flex. I will buy a Tabor. I already have the case.
I think it was a mistake to go PPC way back when. What I would best like to see is a quality emulation layer inserted such that next OS4 ver could run on Intel, and then see a slow conversion of emulated parts to native --- exactly what happened w/ Mac going from MC68K to PPC. It took a LONG time. Many years. But things were always fast. Performance was good. I'd like to see a freeze on features after next OS release and an Intel shift.
MorphOS and AROS are not AmigaOS. IMHO they fracture the tiny bubble that is the AmigaOS experience. I have no desire to run those operating systems. I want to use a modern "Amiga."
Intel switch or not, I'd prefer if "Amiga" users stuck to AmigaOS vs. the aforementioned. It would strengthen things and that's what's needed. My $.02.
bp
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Blake, while I appreciate your input, it sounds like you are ready to just run Amiga Forever on a PC.
PPCs were chosen at the time because they, like the 68000 series, were big endian.
And MorphOS predates Amiga OS4, and at one time stood a chance of becoming the successor to Amiga OS 3.X.
AROS, on the other hand, is a successful re-implementation of the Amiga OS API as an open source OS.
Personally, I could care less where the 'official' licensable trademarked Amiga IP goes.
As fpga based systems get stronger, I may not even have to rely on legacy Amiga OS 3.X implementations.
And whatever happens with OS4, continuing with PPC, moving to X64, etc., the fact that it carries the branding 'Amiga' is not enough to earn any specific loyalty from me.
Hyperion will have to do that by producing a competitive product.