Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: neofree on December 30, 2002, 07:54:08 PM
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I know the Amiga's of the past have had patented hardware preventing the possibility of cloning. Is this the case of the AmigaOne?
I think that if the hardware of the AmigaOne was clonable it would benefit the Amiga community. The success of the PC was probably mostly to this fact alone. Also VHS beat Beta because there was no licensing on the technology.
Anyone know the answer to this? I don't think that the AmigaOne *has* to be this way to succeed, but it would help. If it is proprietary, then I would hope the specs would well exceed that of the competition, and stay on top. Right now it seems that the new A1 is "modern" but still slightly behind the Mac, for example (as far as hardware specs). I think it would be realistic to take some of Mac's market if the A1 was actually spec'd better. Or, priced lower. Or if it was possible to make clones, then there is a very good chance of success...
Comments?
Neofree
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Considering AmigaOne is just a licensed board ANYONE can license this is no problem! however hyperion has decided to dongelise OS4 (not that it will stop crackers) but it will stop legal users from running on the other boards.
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You might want to sign the petition with those who agree with you. (http://amigapop.8bit.co.uk/intro.html)
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What do you mean by "dongelise OS4"?
This being said, I think the AmigaOne then sounds like it is simular to the way Beta was. Although this is better then before, it is still going to have a very hard time beating the PC - not that it is expected to.
Sounds like it's left to bang vs. buck and it's real chance is competing with the Mac.
I hope Amiga does make a comeback, and stays around... I personally won't be able to afford anything new until the prices come way down though. If I could get an Amiga motherboard for say $100-$200 USD, and the rest of the components are just standard PC stuff, then I would be able to do it.
Neofree
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Clones of computers are never usually as successful as the real thing ;-)
I mean look at the Panasonic GameCube!
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Compaq (now HP), Dell, Gateway, etc are some of the larger examples of successful clones. IBM today is still the leader, but I don't think they always were in the time of their own PC.
The clone may not be as good as the original, but the fact that it is possible opens up the marketing possibilities. Besides, do you actually care if you have an IBM PC instead of any other box? (If you use PC stuff too.)
Neofree
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A clone is ok in a market that is already working, but given the small size of the Amiga market as it stands a company needs to know that they will sell a certain amount to make a return to make the venture worth while. At the moment few is better, although if the Amgia gets anywhere near as big as it used to be, Amiga "clones" would be a great thing. It creates competition and lowers prices, but the market has to be able to sustain the number of manufactures, without that ability no (sane) businessman would consider it.
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@T-Bone
I just signed the petition. I've thought this way for some time now. What I can't understand is how AI doesn't see the logic of it.
Tony P
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Hey I signed the petition! Agree the hardware should just be POP like it says!
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jumpship wrote:
A clone is ok in a market that is already working, but given the small size of the Amiga market as it stands a company needs to know that they will sell a certain amount to make a return to make the venture worth while. At the moment few is better, although if the Amgia gets anywhere near as big as it used to be, Amiga "clones" would be a great thing. It creates competition and lowers prices, but the market has to be able to sustain the number of manufactures, without that ability no (sane) businessman would consider it.
This doesn't make sense. If I am selling software, my only concern is how many machines can I get it on. Remember that expression, user base? That is what selling software is all about. Anyone with a PPC Lunix system might like to give AOS a try. :-) But if you have to fork out a lot more money just to buy another system for the sake of the OS.... A cheap scape like me might send $100 for an OS just to try it out, but $800???? :-o
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Seehund WILL be pleased :-o
:-D
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Well I guess it is really going to come down to bank vs. buck. I hope someday to be able to afford one.
I am sick of Unstable Windows, I'll never go the Mac (one button mouse?? COME ON)... The A1 is the only viable alternative to me. Except maybe Linux on any platform. But family and friends wont accept linux, plus it's great for servers but still needs work for end users.
But again, it's going to have to be a lot cheaper for it to be reachable to me. I can't beleive I just paid $150 USD for an A1200 with A1230 and SCSI. Sure this is an awesome deal compared to all of the others, but for as old as this machine is, it is high.
Neofree
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Ladies....
The reason AI doesn't see it has to be because they needed someone to develop the board (and in fairness to eyetech it was developed), with a view to them getting a 100% market share for a good period of time.. (how long is a piece of string)... I think thats why the Peg hasnt been licenced, or it could be because Bill Bluck is a tool... who knows..
IMHO , don't expect to see any clones until the initial market has been sated....
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neofree wrote:
But again, it's going to have to be a lot cheaper for it to be reachable to me. I can't beleive I just paid $150 USD for an A1200 with A1230 and SCSI. Sure this is an awesome deal compared to all of the others, but for as old as this machine is, it is high.
Neofree
Hey, I just saw a 266 PC for $350 at some kind flea market. Talking about rediculous. :crazy:
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The reason AI doesn't see it has to be because they needed someone to develop the board (and in fairness to eyetech it was developed), with a view to them getting a 100% market share for a good period of time.. (how long is a piece of string)... I think thats why the Peg hasnt been licenced, or it could be because Bill Bluck is a tool... who knows..
Not true. Other companies (IF there where any besides genesi?) are welcome to get their PPC boards tested as compatible and license the AmigaOne name.
Bplan wasn't interested in supplying Hyperion with the needed technical details or a developer board and didn't want to sign the contract with Amiga. They could have used a "dongle" onboard like the A1 OR used a little USB dongle if they wanted OS4.
I really don't see why people can't understand that Hyperion have to take every step possible against piracy. Our userbase is VERY small and they have to ensure a certain revenue.
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No, you miss the point, the dongle in itself is not a bad idea, just dont expect to see any companies cloning until eyetech has had it's fill....
AI will not licence anyone else until their 'partner' is satisfied... should be one hell of an orgasm. ;)
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by neofree on 2002/12/30 21:02:27
Hey I signed the petition! Agree the hardware should just be POP like it says!
OK for thoses who sign things with out undserstanding what they are signing
& for thoes who dont understand that there are no POP PPC mobos out there for us to buy at the moment.
Understand this.
The Aone is not s pop mobo
THe Pegasos is not a pop mobo
The Mac is not a pop mobo.
There is no set standard like there is on the x86 mobo.
Every PPC mobo is different THERE IS NO STANDARD SET YET.
So even with out the dongle Aos4 will not just run on every PPC mobo.
A HAL will have to be coded for each type of PPC mobo that comes to market.
And for that you will need the mobo & the hardware docs to do that.
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by Skyraker on 2002/12/30 22:39:11
No, you miss the point, the dongle in itself is not a bad idea, just dont expect to see any companies cloning until eyetech has had it's fill....
AI will not licence anyone else until their 'partner' is satisfied... should be one hell of an orgasm. ;)
Now thats what a call FUD.
What info have you been reading to come to that conclusion.
When & IF a PPC mobo maker offers up a mobo to get a Amiga Cert, that does not have its own competing clone of AmigaOS & then Amiga.inc turns them down then.
i would say you may have a point. but that has not happened.
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@Alkemyst
It's not FUD, it's just my opinion, i have no insider knowledge or any special powers like that, just the way i see it.... this is a forum after all...
I am A1 pro as anyone who know's me will (reluctantly) testify....
I just don't think you'll see any clones until Eyetech has covered their outlay.... tbh do you blame them?
Sky.
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It's not FUD, it's just my opinion,
Sorry but i just cant see where you stated that it was just your opinion.
Besides there are no other ppc mobo makers out there anyway so its moot point to make.
there are no clones cos there are no clone makers in the first place.
so the amiga Cert has no effect.
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@alkemyst
The whole bloody thing was my opinion....
non of it is based on fact , just my interpretation of events..... for ####s sake... why do i bother with teenagers
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The whole bloody thing was my opinion....
non of it is based on fact , just my interpretation of events..... for ####s sake... why do i bother with teenagers
You should know by now that things are most likely to be taken as fact un less clearly stated as an opinion.
The fact you just started calling me names implys your the younger.
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(I know this may sound quite negative, but)
Personally.. I see no point on trying to clone A-one. There is nothing special in it. Ok technically It can run OS4 some day but until that happens it's yet another Linux Box.
And even after long waiting OS4 appears, having it to your clone would be unlikely due these licensing and protection deals. So why bother? :-?
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@Skyraker
Please don't state things as if they are facts and not just your opinion. You are wrong btw.
@JoannaK
(I know this may sound quite negative, but)
Personally.. I see no point on trying to clone A-one. There is nothing special in it. Ok technically It can run OS4 some day but until that happens it's yet another Linux Box.
Well, you do sound negative (very often :-) ) but I must admit you're quite right (this time). Unless you can take the PPC boards and change it for the better or cheaper, theres no need to bother.
And even after long waiting OS4 appears, having it to your clone would be unlikely due these licensing and protection deals. So why bother?".
Well if you made a clone why not get it certified? It's not like this "dongle" would cost a lot to add. It might even be added to the cost of OS4 (just a thought) and not to the hardware.
No one knows, cos no one have bothered to contact Amiga on that matter.
Happy new year to all of you
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Well if you go and listen to Redhouse's speech at Woase skyraker's oppinion becomes quite walid.
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Say anything negative about any pathetic amiga company Elbox, Amiga inc, Eyetech, etc and your straight away chopped down by people who clearly WILL defend anything that Amiga companies do (GOOD OR BAD) to make them sound like they are some sort of "I love Amiga" hippy,
For ####s sakes people look at my avatar and now try and defend your beloved hero`s, people clearly should not be defending thieves.
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What did Mr. Redhouse say at WOASE?
Both Hyperion and Amiga have always stated the opposite of what Skyraker is stating (as a fact).
Hyperion have even said that a dealer could buy a quantity of pegasos's and sign the license with Amiga to get OS4 to run on these. Offcourse hyperion would still need technical details of the hardware.
Now where does that fit in with Skyrakers conspiracy theory?
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Say anything negative about any pathetic amiga company Elbox, Amiga inc, Eyetech, etc and your straight away chopped down by people who clearly WILL defend anything that Amiga companies do (GOOD OR BAD) to make them sound like they are some sort of "I love Amiga" hippy,
Well thats how this community have become. Everything is either Black or white, theres no greyzones anymore.
I believe every company leftin our market have made some (big) mistakes.
I don't agree with all of their directions but I know that no-one will benefit if I just moan about it constantly like you do! No-one will benefit from that, not even my-self.
I don't know if Eyetech have gotten special treatment by Amiga Inc, but you should feel free to prove it.
Did look at your avatar, it's copyrighted material. Thief....
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>I really don't see why people can't understand that
>Hyperion have to take every step possible against
>piracy
Seriously, do you *really* think that OS4 would run
(technically) on any other mainboard (besides the
AmigaOne) if there was not such a dongle? And why
are the versions for BlizzPPC or CybPPC not
dongled?
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Did look at your avatar, it's copyrighted material. Thief....
Then please feel free to email the following and report me, while you are at it ask them where the hell are the T shirts and peoples coupons,
bill@amiga.com
fleecy@amiga.com
randy@amiga.com
vince@amiga.com
gary@amiga.com
dean@amiga.com
gordon@amiga.com
tarah@amiga.com
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" Seriously, do you *really* think that OS4 would run
(technically) on any other mainboard (besides the
AmigaOne) if there was not such a dongle? And why
are the versions for BlizzPPC or CybPPC not
dongled? "
Well it's not like there's a lot of PPC hardware to choose from, so i'm not too sure off what it would run on and what it wouldn't run on.
Aren't they "dongled"...? I guess there could be more ways to achieve that.
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"Then please feel free to email the following and report me, while you are at it ask them where the hell are the T shirts and peoples coupons,"
Why the #### should I do that...? It was you who started talking about thiefes and your avatar.
I just pointed out that your avatar is copyrighted material that you have no right to use. I guess Wayne will notice sooner or later.
Anyway I have no intentions about contacting Amiga regarding any t-shirts or coupons, simply because I didn't buy any.
If you did I suggest you contact them yourselves instead of bitching about it here.
You should offcourse feel free to post your answer here as I am sure you are not the only unsatisfied customer they have.
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Let#s make a few "what ifs":
What if Genesi would get a licence ?
The wouldn't be able to sell one single extra board, as OS4 is not ready to be bundled.
The might even sell less, since some people might wait for the dongled version.
They would give differnet (hostile) companies some control over their HW.
They would have no guarantee that future products will get a licence.
Not a good idea for them.
What if OS4 would still be promised for "any suitable HW" ?
A lot of users might buy the Pegasos and use MorphOS until OS is finished.
These users might get used to it, and selling them another OS might proove
difficult when they are allready satisfied with the one they got "free".
The number of sold A1s would be lower and since it is the only board with an
"AmigOne-the-name-licence" AInc income would be dramaticly reduced.
(very low fees on OS4, HW-licence "free").
So it is the interest of atleast AInc and Eyetech that there are no other licences,
and it might even suit Hyperion, while Genesi have no reason to sign such a
licence.
Copy-protection with a shrink-wrapped USB-dongle would be just as good
regardless if it comes with the HW or the OS.
Also: The A1-SE had an licence when it only existed in the form of MAIs eval-board,
and the XE even before it actually existed.
Funny kind of quality-control :-P
The Pegasos is on sale, the HW is no secret, same goes for the OF.
It is AInc's/Hyperion's decision if the want to reach that market or not.
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>Well it's not like there's a lot of PPC hardware to
>choose from
Well the mainproblem for them is that they failed to
deliver an own board. So they had to select a third
party board. But because of this they can not include
OS4 in the price of the hardware. That makes them
very expensive and reduces their market chances
dramatically. They are 80EUR more expensive than a
company that delivers the same board without "the
name" and dongle (even 160EUR more expensive if
you also count OS4) and around 110/190EUR more
expensive than the Pegasos incl. at least two
operating systems. It's very unlikely that for
example a Linux user will chose an AmigaOne over
an other PPC mainboard. And that's the dilemma
they're in. Their only advantage is that they have not
really a high risk (at least Eyetech) as they just buy
the boards and earn a few US$ when reselling them
(although warranty could cause a problem). The risk
of Hyperion is a bit higher, however only 4(?) of the
OS4 members are actually employeed by Hyperion
so they don't have to pay high wages for a big team.
If something doesn't work out for them they just put
the project on hold/low priority and do contract work
(BIOS, Linux, Mac ports etc).
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I just pointed out that your avatar is copyrighted material that you have no right to use. I guess Wayne will notice sooner or later.
Yes Wayne should remove 100s of copyrighted images/avatars from this site unless you are trying to state an image from Amiga.com is the only copyrighted image which should be removed,
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by Paul_Gadd on 2002/12/31 2:33:14
Quote:
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Did look at your avatar, it's copyrighted material. Thief....
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Then please feel free to email the following and report me, while you are at it ask them where the hell are the T shirts and peoples coupons,
bill@amiga.com
fleecy@amiga.com
randy@amiga.com
vince@amiga.com
gary@amiga.com
dean@amiga.com
gordon@amiga.com
tarah@amiga.com
@Paul_Gadd
I don't see anything wrong in using your avatar ... didn't You/we buy it ;-)
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@hnl_dk
LOL, the only time the amiga users will see a coupon is if they print out and cut that picture out and put it in a nice silver frame :-D :-D .
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Yes Wayne should remove 100s of copyrighted images/avatars from this site unless you are trying to state an image from Amiga.com is the only copyrighted image which should be removed,
You where talking about your avatar and about theft, it was simply too tempting to comment that "your" avatar is copyrighted and your use of it is theft.
Guess I should have placed a smiley (or 10) for you to see that I don't have any intentions of reporting anything, to any Amiga employees.
My mention of Wayne was that he as a webmaster probably know how annoying it is to see your gfx be stolen and used on anti/fan sites and that sort of thing.
I am quite sure that Wayne know that your avatar is copyrighted and where it's from, unlike the 100's of other avatars in here that may be stolen from other sites Wayne doesn't know of.
I was not suggesting that Wayne checked every avatar in here if thats what you thought, neither did I set up special rules for Amiga Inc.
EOD from here, have a happy new year :-)
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Before I even go on I must say here that this post has nothing to do with pegasos. It's a nice piece of HW but even if i had the money i wouldn't buy it. This settled...
Alan's speech at woase: he was talking about how the whole deal couldn't have been made between him and fleecy if there were more licensees. About how the end cost would actually rise etc... Go listen to it. Now I don't really blame eyetech for this it's a small market afterall but if there's one thing that really brings prices down it's competition and not bussines' goodwill. It worked for PCs, don't see why it wouldn't work here.
I mean this was weird from beginning actually. Amiga Inc. says 'We'll do software alone' but immidiately gives eyetech the license for the name Amiga (amigaone)? I thought we would have no 'amigas' anymore? Afterall OS is all that's left of amiga now. Now we also have basically identical boards out there with the exception of 'amigaone' being more expensive and it's twin teron not running amigaos although it could. Market lost IMO.
Flame away if you wish, happy new year!
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Eyetech and special treatment? Not that it proves anything, but this (http://www.amiga.com/products/one/pr.php) and maybe this (http://www.amiga.com/corporate/041201-techupdate-B.shtml) makes an interesting reading.
Especially these two quotes:
"The AmigaOne process involves close co-operation between Amiga and our partners' hardware groups, the running of the AmigaDE on the hardware, and a thorough quality certification of the final product. Only then can the product be called an AmigaOne."
and this:
"he first zico compliant device, the Eyetech AmigaOne - the first, new Amiga certified hardware in over five years"
Getting a certification means the certification of the final product... Now, the statement Eyetech AmigaONE is the first _certified_ hardware in over five years is dated back to 12 April 2001.
Not that they shouldn't do that, or it's forbidden. I even go further, I have absolutely no objection against it, as Eyetech is their only partner (we can suppress Elbox IMO). I only used to mention "interesting business practice". Oh yes, for the nitpickers, all the above is my opinion, and only the statement "I don't know if Eyetech have gotten special treatment by Amiga Inc, but you should feel free to prove it." inspired it.
It's all acceptable IMO, just it's presentation bothers me (acting like if it were something open), and the zealots... Neither AInc nor Eyetech has the resources not to be affected by company interests, yet they chosen to communicate it the way they did. Sorry for disturbing and don't take me serious :-)
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I signed the petition aswell..and I think others who care about amiga and its future should also... I doubt it will do much good though... since their not budgeing on the idea of keeping OS4 on one board it seems....
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Why the #### should I do that...? It was you who started talking about thiefes and your avatar
so taking money and not paying up is the same as putting a copyrighted image on your web forum avatar?...
I respect your intelligence and opinon about as much as I do AI right now...
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neofree wrote:
Compaq (now HP), Dell, Gateway, etc are some of the larger examples of successful clones. IBM today is still the leader, but I don't think they always were in the time of their own PC.
HP and Dell both outsell IBM in computer units worldwide.
-Tig
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Skyraker wrote:
The reason AI doesn't see it has to be because they needed someone to develop the board (and in fairness to eyetech it was developed), with a view to them getting a 100% market share for a good period of time.. (how long is a piece of string.
Then lets be real fair, and realize Eyetech didnt develop the board, dont manufacture it and just a distribute it for MAI. The Eyetech magic in the board is called a DONGLE. Its not rocket science, I know rocket science and this definitely aint it.
-Tig
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Troels_E wrote:
I really don't see why people can't understand that Hyperion have to take every step possible against piracy. Our userbase is VERY small and they have to ensure a certain revenue.
Understand, the dongle is not there to guarantee software sales, the dongle is there to guarantee hardware sales to Eyetech. The dongle will be broken in a day, two days worst case. Amiga Inc has encouraged piracy of their new OS by locking it to a hardware platform that has an Eyetech premium on it. We could have the OS running on all the mac models, (and we will it just will be done as a pirate copy), instead we have a single source motherboard from our sole distributer as our last great hope.
-Tig
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@Tigger
OS4(warez) on Apple-HW ?
Ain't gone work due to missing drivers for the HW.
OS4 on Teron-boards by TerraSoft ?
Should be easy and you might be right with 2 days.
OS4 on Pegasos ?
Should be possible, but a bit harder (different SB/BIOS).
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Kronos wrote:
@Tigger
OS4(warez) on Apple-HW ?
Ain't gone work due to missing drivers for the HW.
OS4 on Teron-boards by TerraSoft ?
Should be easy and you might be right with 2 days.
OS4 on Pegasos ?
Should be possible, but a bit harder (different SB/BIOS).
Kronos,
Though it will take some work, they have macs running Linux, Be etc, it will take some work, but drivers will get written for OS4 to put it on the Mac, with support from Amiga Inc we could have started out with that as one of the supported platforms. I agree with your other comments.
-Tig
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@Tigger
I had a discusion about that with Ben some time ago, and it seems that
Hyperion plan to keep the HAL closed up, making it very very hard to
write new base-drivers (PCI/IDE/..) for it.
I really doubt that there are enough people out there who are willing
to make it happen. Real shame when that (OS4 on Apple) could have
been the biggest market for OS4, and with an open HAL it would have
happened with next to no work for Hyperion.
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With a known hardware platform (the Teron board) plus the other version of the OS running on the PPC cards, its really not that big an issue. Give a dozen Amiga geeks a weekend and its likely to happen, but it wont be 1000s of sales for Amiga Inc, because you cant buy AOS 4.0 with a USB dongle ready for installation on PPC hardware.
-Tig
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Tigger:
This may be true, but I work for HP, and they told us themselves that they are #2 to IBM. IBM isn't just sales of computers. They do a lot of service and software related things too. It may be true that Dell and HP sell more units, but overall company value IBM is at #1 currently.
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Well, I've started a big topic...
After reading everyone's arguments I really do think that Amiga should rethink the proprietary move. Amiga has said themselves that they are a software company now, and they would benefit by their software being easier to run on various platforms. I don't mind paying $50-$100 for an OS. But I do mind paying too much for hardware.
That all being said, I am studying computer electronics and plan to design a small computer in the next few years... To those out there with a litle bit more of hardware knowledge... How hard is design of motherboards for the PowerPC vs. Intel/AMD? I've read enough about the PC that I think it would be a very hard task to design a PC clone. (Plus hard to market.) Is it comparibly difficult for a PPC motherboard? And is PPC truely better then Intel/AMD? If so, can someone explain why?
Thanks,
Neofree
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neofree wrote:
Tigger:
This may be true, but I work for HP, and they told us themselves that they are #2 to IBM. IBM isn't just sales of computers. They do a lot of service and software related things too. It may be true that Dell and HP sell more units, but overall company value IBM is at #1 currently.
First of all the discussion wasnt about #1 company value, and frankly depending on what we are counting to represent company value, (sales, stock value, profits, etc) we can sort those 3 companies in many ways. None of them are the #1 company in anything but their field. We were talking about selling computers, and worldwide sales this year, both Dell & HP (HP+Compaq) exceed unit sales of IBM. The big 5 accounted for almost 50% of worldwide sales of appox 140 million computers. Total Apple sales less then 3 million units, Dell sold over 4 PCs last year for every mac sold. If you want to see us make your HP computers, come visit and I'll take you to see the HP lines at work.
-Tig
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neofree wrote:
That all being said, I am studying computer electronics and plan to design a small computer in the next few years... To those out there with a litle bit more of hardware knowledge... How hard is design of motherboards for the PowerPC vs. Intel/AMD?
I've read enough about the PC that I think it would be a very hard task to design a PC clone. (Plus hard to market.) Is it comparibly difficult for a PPC motherboard? And is PPC truely better then Intel/AMD? If so, can someone explain why?
Thanks,
Neofree
Its not any harder to use PPC vs x86, the issue is that if you really want to do a motherboard (with PCI slots etc) you are going to need northbridge and southbridge chips or roll your own (I wouldnt suggest choice 2) and there are alot more x86 bridge chips then PPC (MAI and Apple (which isnt really Apples, but thats what it says on the chip, and I'm tired of explaining the chips real heritage). I believe are the only two modern ones). The fastest x86 chip is not only cheaper then the fastest G4, its also much more powerful. Current Dual G4 Mac at 1.25 Ghz is getting eaten up by single 3 Ghz P4 systems at less cost. In 4 days we may see faster Macs, but all I have to do to beat them is talk about dual P4s and its all over again. However I am going to make a comment about you designing a new computer. DONT. Its a silly quest, its Cervates all over again, and it really is just a windmill. If you want to design something yourself, design something useful. Get a Analog Devices or TI kit and make it into a sound card that works like you want, or build an embedded system that digitizes video, or figure out how to make some cool PCI card work in the AmigaOne or Pegasus, or get a PCI build card, and make a PCI card that does something useful to you, someone else, or just fun to play with. At least a dozen people on this board have designed a computer motherboard, for most it was a waste of time that could have been used on not repeating what 100's if not 1000's had already done.
-Tig
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I think company value is (or atleast was recently) more important then you think. HP and Compaq were both hurting really badly. There was a good chance of at least one of the companies getting close to bankrupcy. IBM had a lot less trouble during this time. "The New HP" has recovered, but it's value today is only what one of the two were seperately before the downfall that happened before the merger. IBM is very strong in enterprise solutions. They take on huge contracts. And the service industry (such as taking on the responsibility of an entire IT department of another company) is growing a lot and is keeping these companies where they are. Last I knew, IBM was aproximately 2 times the value of the "New HP". I think it was HP's own Carly who recognized this and wanted to make a strong effort in making HP mean as much as IBM. I don't know if they'll do it but hey they can try. ;)
Neofree
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About the computer, I was only planning on making an 8 or 16 bit machine with very inexpensive components. It is mostly for a sense of accomplishment, but there is a special market it will actually have a chance to make some money in.
Neofree
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Say anything negative about any pathetic amiga company Elbox, Amiga inc, Eyetech, etc and your straight away chopped down by people who clearly WILL defend anything that Amiga companies do (GOOD OR BAD) to make them sound like they are some sort of "I love Amiga" hippy,
Right. As if you'd have anything POSITIVE to say.. Ever. I don't see how a "I love Amiga" hippy is any better/worse than a "I hate Amiga" hippy. Then again, what else would you have to post about?
For ####s sakes people look at my avatar and now try and defend your beloved hero`s, people clearly should not be defending thieves.
Ho ho ho. A thief, err, pot's calling the kettle black.
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I have to say that when working as a HP/Compaq engineer, when I meet IBM engineers on site they're generally arseholes.
@Paul_Gadd
Put a sock in it will you
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Regarding the Eyetech aspect, I seem to remember reading somewhere that at the first attempt at making the A1 was a total disaster for them, the H/W design wasn`t very good they had trouble with northbridges or southbridges or london bridges can`t really remember. Anyway they also had HUGE probs with the firmware which never ran at all, and in the end Eyetech lost a bundle on it.
Then they saw the teron which was all in a far better board and they could get it at a reasonable price, so they went for that instead.
They could have just let it all end and pull out of the market altogether, but they stuck at it. I don`t know what deals A.inc/hyperion/Eyetech did, but I do know this....if I owned a Co. I would be trying to get the best deal possible for my money spent investing in the market. If I can get all sales of the OS tied to MY h/w I`m gonna be pretty happy.
I think that maybe A.inc had to let Eyetech have sole h/w rights for a short period, at least 1 yr or so so that they get the chance to recoup some cash.
I also don`t think that there will be many "clones" if any at all, for the simple reason there isn`t enough users to support them.
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L8-X wrote:
Then they saw the teron which was all in a far better board and they could get it at a reasonable price, so they went for that instead.
What I always read was that when they discovered the Teron, MAI only had very expensive demo boards ($6000USD) and not cheap boards and that from then they co-developed a cheaper board by deciding on the SPECS and then let the layout and production of the board be done by an Asian company (which is very normal in this branche).
Or is there proove that the cheaper boards existed before the contacts between Eyetech and MAI ?
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Had a dig around and this is what is said on the Eyetech site......
Is the AmigaOneG3-SE the same as the MAI Teron Cx? No. During the period leading up to the OS4 development agreement being signed we evaluated the Articia S northbridge chip for possible use in a redesigned AmigaOne. We concluded that it was the most cost-effective chip for the design and proceeded to draw up some new specifications for an uprated, more cost-effectively engineered AmigaOne, the AmigaOneG3-SE. Clearly using the Articia S instead of Escena's custom northbridge design meant that both the schematic design and the PCB layout would be entirely new. MAI logic are a chipset manufacturer, not a PPC motherboard manufacturer, but they had commissioned a low volume, high cost evaluation board, the Teron Cx, to help sell their chipsets. The Teron Cx was never designed to, or intended to, go into volume production. We therefore asked them if they could recommend a design company who was familiar with using the Articia S in PPC motherboard design. They recommended the same (Far Eastern) company that designed their Teron Cx evaluation board.
The new Eyetech AmigaOne design obviously shares a lot of commonality with the Teron Cx board, but more than a cursory glance at the specifications (ATA speed, integrated ethernet, custom firmware, number of active PCI/AGP slots etc) - and the price - of both boards should be enough to convince most people that they really are different designs.
However if you remain unconvinced you are of course perfectly welcome to purchase the Teron Cx evaluation board. It costs $3900, misses many features of the AmigaOneG3-SE, and won't run OS4.
@Fats
My explanation wasn`t explained very well! :-)
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As a sidenote, I would have loved to have seen the A1200 pci bridgeboard, (access to all my lovely demos) but sadly it was not to be. :-(
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Or is there proove that the cheaper boards existed before the contacts between Eyetech and MAI ?
Don't know the details, but prior to Teron being AmigaONE the pricing was depending on volume at MAI's site. The (very high) price was for one unit, and if you order in volume you get discount. It's usual business practice, however exact prices were not disclosed, just "call us" or something instead. I really have no idea how deep Eyetech was involved (if any) in Teron/Articia evolution.
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I am sick of Unstable Windows, I'll never go the Mac (one button mouse?? COME ON)... The A1 is the only viable alternative to me. Except maybe Linux on any platform. But family and friends wont accept linux, plus it's great for servers but still needs work for end users.
Oh please.. just plug in a 16-button mouse then. I use a logitech optical 3-button mouse in OS X and all the buttons work out of the box.
OS X is /the/ usable *nix on a desktop.
That said.. I'm still looking forward to OS 4 8-)
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I signed the petition as you all (that haven't yet ) should.
a good analogy for our situation:
its not just the "strain" that decides the end results; that is only latent potential..
what brings max yield is the consideration of the following factors
1. temperature
2. ph level
3.aeration
4.nutrients
5. complete flush of growing medium 10 days before harvest (to remove taste/aroma of nutrients)
(for the ever-best (award winning) strains info: www.hightimes.com)
now, what in the world does this have to do with AmigaONE? thats up to you to speculate. you can look at it from any angle..
but is it speculation that can prove Eye-tech is our best prospect instead of offering/auctioning a shot for anyone that thinks they can? wouln't it be better for all interested to compete for the best results (that Wayne will give verdicts upon?)
besides whats the big deal for BIll McEwin to authorize/negotiate HALs for any new )(not to mention existing) board standards- as a priority high and above producing cell-phone games for microsoft???? wasn't it all supposed to be write once run anywhere????
if somebody really has thorough understanding on what is happenning at this moment and what can be done (petitions are a great way to influence awarenesses/perception)
If Bill McE is really the big bastard...if its really true...anybody come across him... F**k him up and send him on his way! :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-x :-( :-o :-( :-x
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Same old discussion again. You just don't get it do you?
Why do you think that it would be in Hyperion's or Amiga Inc's interest to "keep OS4 on one board"? Does the CyberStorm and Blizzard not count?
Can you give me one example of a reaily-available, affordable, non-Mac PPC machine that would justify the effort of porting AmigaOS?
No, Pegasos isn't. Out of different reasons.
No, Barbie isn't. You can't buy it as far as I see.
No, POP isn't either. The POP boards that are available (if at all) are rather expensive.
So what is the use of this whole whining and petition writing anyway?
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But the hardware isn't POP. The only POP hardware available is way too expensive. Get over it.
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Paul_Gadd wrote:
I just pointed out that your avatar is copyrighted material that you have no right to use. I guess Wayne will notice sooner or later.
Yes Wayne should remove 100s of copyrighted images/avatars from this site unless you are trying to state an image from Amiga.com is the only copyrighted image which should be removed,
The coupon is legal to display, after all, you bought it. If someone wants to throw a fit, offer to show them your reciept.
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Childish...
Everyone can get a licence. Stop making claims you cannot back up.
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Skyraker wrote:
It's not FUD, it's just my opinion, i have no insider knowledge or any special powers like that, just the way i see it.... this is a forum after all...
Oh yes, it is. You have stated that Amiga Inc will not give a licence to anyone, without any knowledge or prove to back this up. You didn't even bother to say "in my opinion". You stated it as fact, and there are enough narrow-minded people out there that will swallow this.
I just don't think you'll see any clones until Eyetech has covered their outlay.... tbh do you blame them?
Sky.
I think this is again an indication of one of the fundamential issues in the amiga "community": Everyone grabs a piece of hearsay and posts this somewhere as a glorified news item. Everyone has picked his side already, so he hails all news from his side as truth and from the other side as lies.
Facts? Why bother with them.
The petition business is a good example. No one acknowledges the work it takes to actually make the thing, no one acknowledges the amount of work required to actually *support* this thing. Do you honestly believe that you can tell a customer "sorry we don't officially support your Hardware" or "No, we didn't get any official documentation from Apple, so we can't say what your problem is"? Do you think that this will be a customer for your next product?
No. If you want to keep the support effort in any kind of financially bearable framework, you need to restrict the options. Otherwise you can forget about it.
Of course it is aways easier to bash. (Or to use f-words on Bill McEwen, like in this other post. Can't you use civilized language? )
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This Mac user usually has four mouse buttons. The key to the Mac interface is it doesn't REQUIRE more than one mouse button so you avoid craptacular interfaces like S-Plus on windoze which require special right-click combination gestures.
Loser...
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@Rogue:
"Of course it is aways easier to bash." Exactly, as you bash the community. What's happening, "I think this is again an indication of one of the fundamential issues in the amiga "community"": they will support you as long as you sided with Amiga Inc, and piss you off when you are not. Wishing you will not have the same fate as Haage und Partner.
This community is a rather interesting one. But anyway, these ppl are the market. Looking at it, the only potential purchasers of AmigaOS4 and the AmigaONE. Convince them, instead of bashing them. Sure, there will remain plenty who will support you whatever you do, but the rest will go away. And those supporting you whatever you do will support you just because you act in name of the Holy Office. May easily became your enemies next day.
Look at where Haage und Partner is now, with their anti piracy measures, OS development, applications. They managed to knock out competition, gain control, they were the backbone of Amiga. They are now public enemy.
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Minion:
Well, I never said I liked IBM. :) But then again I really don't like HP all that much either. I worked for Compaq before the merger. They were very nice to their employees.
Neofree
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@l8-x
Now that sounds like development to me, albeit not on the same scale as the Pegasos. oh yeah, thats just my opinion not a fact....
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ppl are focusing too much on the Protection to why they have no choice of PPC mobos to run Aos4 on.
If anyone thinks that the dongle code in the Aos4 rom is to just restrict choice & keep MAI & Eyetech the only mobo providers for AOS4
are ignoring the FACTS.
Even with out the protection code, Aos4 will still not run on the pegasos or any other PPC mobo that may come onto the market
unless Hyperiona gets a mobo & docs to write an amiga HAL for that mobo.
This is not the PC x86 market where a standard has been set.
Like write OS once for x86 & should work on all x86 mobos.
There is yet to be a standard set for PPC.
So infact they would not have to go Through all the trouble of a dongle to restrict choice.
They would just have to not write any HAL's for any other PPC mobos when they come to market.
So what would be the point in Making as much of Aos4 source code in portable C & having HAL Hardware Abstraction Layer if the whole plan is to run it on one mobo type.
And im not going to explain to ppl what a HAL is for.
The info is on the net for thoese who want to know.
I would say that seehund is doing more harm then good with his petition.
By taking his petition on to more general computing forums besides amigaonly one.
makes us look like a bunch of fanatics.
Any any ppl who are not still with the amiga or ppl who come across his petition,
either would be putoff by the bickering & think sod that im stay with MY PC/MAC or agree with the petitions
And say Sod that im not supporting Amiga.inc if they do that & will stay with his PC/MAC.
Most Terrorist do things for a good course but i think most would agree that thats not the way to go about it.
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Alkemyst wrote:
ppl are focusing too much on the Protection to why they have no choice of PPC mobos to run Aos4 on.
If anyone thinks that the dongle code in the Aos4 rom is to just restrict choice & keep MAI & Eyetech the only mobo providers for AOS4
are ignoring the FACTS.
Even with out the protection code, Aos4 will still not run on the pegasos or any other PPC mobo that may come onto the market
unless Hyperiona gets a mobo & docs to write an amiga HAL for that mobo.
You are the one ignoring the facts, Terrasoft sells the identical MAI motherboard for $150 less, without the magic amiga dongle of doom. It will run on that board, period if not for the dongle code, it will take the hackers a day to fix that issue. Despite posting of old Eyetech messages (ie lies) lets be real clear hear, Eyetech is a distributer for MAI boards in this case, thats it. The other MAI boards dont work with AmigaOS because Eyetech put a dongle on the board, period.
So infact they would not have to go Through all the trouble of a dongle to restrict choice.
They would just have to not write any HAL's for any other PPC mobos when they come to market.
So what would be the point in Making as much of Aos4 source code in portable C & having HAL Hardware Abstraction Layer if the whole plan is to run it on one mobo type.
Because when MAI upgrades their board they want to be able to move it to a new one, and MAI will upgrade it because their larger customers (Terrasoft among them) will want it, and little Eyetech will have to move to the new boards or not have boards to sell. And your comments about the HAL and "portable" C would point to you having less knowledge about those topics then at very least most of the engineers on this board.
-Tig
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Tigger wrote:
The fastest x86 chip is not only cheaper then the fastest G4, its also much more powerful. Current Dual G4 Mac at 1.25 Ghz is getting eaten up by single 3 Ghz P4 systems at less cost. In 4 days we may see faster Macs, but all I have to do to beat them is talk about dual P4s and its all over again.
Tig
IMHO, I think is functionality. P4's and AMD's might be faster, but they cannot do as many things. Not being an expert on processors, I could be wrong, but comparing the RIST vs CIST(?) design, the RIST has greater functionality and uses less energy. The fact that you don't need a bunch of cards to do things on a Mac, where as a PC can't do anything without a bunch of cards is the point. ;-)
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And your comments about the HAL and "portable" C would point to you having less knowledge about those topics then at very least most of the engineers on this board.
-Tig
My comment about C & HAL have come from what Hyperion have said.
They said they re-done things in C & used HAL Technic to make it easyer to port in future.
Hyperion said that a NEW HAL would have to be made for each Make of PPC mobo
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Alkemyst wrote:
No the Facts are that this petition was started way before
a Terrasoft came on the sence to sell the mobo.
I have trouble believing that since Terrasoft has been working with MAI longer then Eyetech. Are you saying that the petition was started when Eyetech still thought they could design there own board??
Only you have brought that up at this point & only now after months & months of this bebait.
Terrasoft stuff has been posted for months, we had the whole, we arent those boards, we designed those boards, etc from Eyetech, and then finally the truth came out with we are putting a special rom on the MAI board so you have to buy it from us.
PPL are moaning about not being able to run it on PPC hardware of there choice.
From Amiga Incs (and frankly Hyperions) it makes no sense to lock the OS to the Eyetech board. They get paid on unit sales, if they want to protect the OS from Piracy, put a real USB dongle on it, and let everyone buy it. Wayne would have a dozen topics on how to run the OS on Dual Mac G4s, IMacs, Terrasoft boards etc, if that was the case. Instead we have one supplier who blames Motorola for their inability to deliver boards one day before christmas.
As ppl think its just the dongle thats the issue with out understanding the HAL aspect.
It is just the dongle issue, if there werent a dongle issue, the HAL issue would be handled by the community. Linux runs on the Macs, on the other PPC boards, there is enough info out there to make an Amiga OS run on the other PPC machines, its not that big an issue. The real issue is that even once 4.0 is out, I cant buy it without buying a very expensive (and slow) motherboard. Every single day of the year, Apple sells more PPC computers then Eyetech will sell for the entire year of 2003. There are over 15 million PPC macs sitting around, is that really a market that they should be uninterested in running their OS on?????? Dont want OS 4.0 on a laptop???
-Tig
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I have trouble believing that since Terrasoft has been working with MAI longer then Eyetech. Are you saying that the petition was started when Eyetech still thought they could design there own board??
Most ppl here knew nothing about Terrasoft & the MAI mobo untill lately.
No where on the petition does it mention Terrasoft & for a non dongled version of the board to run a non dongled version of Aos4 to run on it.
If the petiton was about the fact Terrasoft sells the same mobo & no aos4 for it then yeah the petition would have a point, but it does not.
From Amiga Incs (and frankly Hyperions) it makes no sense to lock the OS to the Eyetech board. They get paid on unit sales, if they want to protect the OS from Piracy, put a real USB dongle on it, and let everyone buy it. Wayne would have a dozen topics on how to run the OS on Dual Mac G4s, IMacs, Terrasoft boards etc, if that was the case. Instead we have one supplier who blames Motorola for their inability to deliver boards one day before christmas.
Amiga.inc & Hyperion already said if a supplier comes forward with a USB dongle for there mobo then that would be concidered.
It is just the dongle issue, if there werent a dongle issue, the HAL issue would be handled by the community. Linux runs on the Macs, on the other PPC boards, there is enough info out there to make an Amiga OS run on the other PPC machines, its not that big an issue. The real issue is that even once 4.0 is out, I cant buy it without buying a very expensive (and slow) motherboard. Every single day of the year, Apple sells more PPC computers then Eyetech will sell for the entire year of 2003. There are over 15 million PPC macs sitting around, is that really a market that they should be uninterested in running their OS on?????? Dont want OS 4.0 on a laptop???
-Tig
Aos4 is not open source & is not linux.
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Alkemyst wrote:
Most ppl here knew nothing about Terrasoft & the MAI mobo untill lately.
Lets be real clear on this, this topic is not about the petition, this topic is about OS 4.0 being donglized to the Eyetech board. And just because you didnt know about Terrasoft, doesnt mean that the MAI board didnt exist before the petition.
Amiga.inc & Hyperion already said if a supplier comes forward with a USB dongle for there mobo then that would be concidered.
Explain how that would work, lets see, I would have to pay Hyperion to write a USB dongle driver for their OS, then they would have to release a special version that used the USB Dongle (not to be confused with Cool AmigaOne Rom Dongle (TM)) for its antipiracy feature, and then I have to buy computers (or motherboards) that anyone can buy themselves and put them together and sell them so noone gets AOS 4.0 without my cool dongle with it.
Instead they could have sold 1 package with the dongle and this whole issue would have been moot.
Aos4 is not open source & is not linux.
Gee, thats news to all of us here, we were all confused and thought the Aos4 was open source and Linux. See you really dont understand why what I said was important to the HAL do you??? Windows isnt Open Source either, yet someone you can run windows on some pretty weird devices if you know what you are doing, and work on it. But you can buy windows by itself, just like you can pretty much all OS's, except Aos 4.0, got to buy an AmigaOne with it or run it on an old Amiga with a Phase 5 board (and I'm still pretty sure we'll see some form of copy protection on that) or that it will be "different" then the AmigaOne version.
-Tig
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, except Aos 4.0, got to buy an AmigaOne with it or run it on an old Amiga with a Phase 5 board (and I'm still pretty sure we'll see some form of copy protection on that) or that it will be "different" then the AmigaOne version.
Offcourse that will bê different:
a) It won't have drivers for VIA/MAI (IDE/PCI/PS2).
b) It will need a real KickROM (3.1)
c) The bootstrap is completly different to th one used by PCCBoot.
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Lets be real clear on this, this topic is not about the petition, this topic is about OS 4.0
being donglized to the Eyetech board. And just because you didnt know about Terrasoft, doesnt mean
that the MAI board didnt exist before the petition.
I siad most ppl i did not say that i did not know.
You are useing TerraSoft as an argument for the Petition when no other person was, when the
petition was made.
Explain how that would work, lets see, I would have to pay Hyperion to write a USB dongle
driver for their OS, then they would have to release a special version that used the USB Dongle (not
to be confused with Cool AmigaOne Rom Dongle (TM)) for its antipiracy feature, and then I have to buy
computers (or motherboards) that anyone can buy themselves and put them together and sell them so
noone gets AOS 4.0 without my cool dongle with it.
Instead they could have sold 1 package with the dongle and this whole issue would have been
moot.
they could have sold 1 package with the dongle and this whole issue would have been
moot.
Cool some one sees a nice looking PPC mobo buys Aos4 + USB dongle for all gets home & oh boy no HAL
yet made for it.
Or HAL was made by the community but Aos4 run flaky on that modo.
Ill just email Hyperion & complain.
Gee, thats news to all of us here, we were all confused and thought the Aos4 was open source
and Linux. See you really dont understand why what I said was important to the HAL do you??? Windows
isnt Open Source either, yet someone you can run windows on some pretty weird devices if you know
what you are doing, and work on it. But you can buy windows by itself, just like you can pretty much
all OS's, except Aos 4.0, got to buy an AmigaOne with it or run it on an old Amiga with a Phase 5
board (and I'm still pretty sure we'll see some form of copy protection on that) or that it will be
"different" then the AmigaOne version.
-Tig
i didnt say how important the HAL is Hyperion did.
Even in the x86 stand Windows does not run right on all mobos.
who gets the blame when that happends windows most of the time.
I would not want Aos4 to get blamed when it was the HW at fault or the badly coded HAL.
But avgjoe would know nothing about HAL & would not know that the AmigaPPC he/she had just bought
had a badly coded HAL.
Hyperion would get email from loads of ppl blaming them.
The reason such things work on the linux platform cos most linux users are not the avg joe & know a
bit more about computers.
But in the end your aproach makes copying as easy as can be CD to CD.
The point of protection is NOT IF it will be will not be cracked.
The point is to make it hard as you can for the cracker & the user of the cracked version.
I can see by some of your comments that you have not been follwing all the events of the Aone & Aos4.
alot of your question have already been answered by hyperion, here & on the Aos4 ML.
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Alkemyst wrote:
i didnt say how important the HAL is Hyperion did.
Hyperion?? Or Lawyer boy??? We were explaining HAL to Ben a year ago, so dont take too much of his vast technical knowledge (NOT) to heart.
But in the end your aproach makes copying as easy as can be CD to CD.
No, read my approach, AmigaOS 4.0 bundle is
1) Manual
2) CD
3) USB Dongle
Its no easier to pirate then the AmigaOne method but I now have doubled the distributers for the official boards, plus we'll see it run on Pegasus, plus we'll see someone (maybe even Terrasoft) run it on the Macs. Is this really that hard to understand.
The point is to make it hard as you can for the cracker & the user of the cracked version.
And the Rom is basically bad in two ways. One you have have the dongle on your motherboard, your dongle goes bad, you have to send your computer back. Two you have limited you customers to people with Teron PPC boards with dongles soldered to them, not people with Teron PPC boards, not people with PPC boards, but one specific distributers board. What happens when Terrasoft or one of the other distributers buys alot of boards and the smallest buyer (ie Eyetech) gets none that month. Gee no amigas this month, but thats ok, because when we get ours we'll have a CARD on our boards.
I can see by some of your comments that you have not been follwing all the events of the Aone & Aos4.
alot of your question have already been answered by hyperion, here & on the Aos4 ML.
I see you believe whatever a belgian lawyer tells you whether it makes technical sense or not. The original AmigaOS has been moved to at least 3 different non-amiga hardware platforms the best known beeing the Dracos, its strange they needed only the RKMs to do this in all 3 cases, yet Ben believes that its impractical for the new AmigaOS to run on anything but one board from one distributer.
-Tig
[/quote]
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@Tigger
when you say HAL he probably thinks of a movie :P
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i Get my info from the Aone & Aos4 ML.
Maybe you should to.
And the fact is dongle or no dongle if there is a lot of Os4 copying then its all over.
THE USB dongle can be cracked as well.
the hope is that enough ppl will buy Aone/Aos4 before it cracked.
some ppl say no protection at all very good for the users in the sort term but bad for the Aos4 coders thus no more Aos versions thus bad for the users.
& let it run on every type of PPC mobo huge choice for the users millions of AmigaOs users running copied version of Aos4.
But very little money for the Aos4 coders.
All firms do whats best for them first to keep then afloat.
The customers & users always come second weather you see it or not.
The only time they ever give customers/users what they want is if THEY can see gain by it & that gain is always £ first & form most.
Sometimes you get what you want & sometimes you dont.
If i had a new car making firm but all i could afford was to only sell it in one colour then that has to be that.
but there will be ppl who would not buy the car cos of the colour & will say to that im cutting my own throat cos
im not given them more choice of colour & will be limiting my sale cos if it.
But they just dont undertand the cos upfront of given them wehat they want would kill my firm off out right.
When the sales of my one colour only car makes me just enough money to offer more choice of colours then i will do so.
Then i can afford to give the customers more of what they want.
But i will only give them what they want if it brings me more money.
I will not give them what they want just cos its what they want if there would be no gain in money.
Aos4 is like a new Babe it need restriction just like a new babe untill it grown enough with in those
restriction to be able to stand on it own 2 feet.
in alot of cases in the computer & console market, giving to users & customers what the want strate away cost a HUGE amount of money.
Even selling the Hardware at a Loss to keep it cheap to make it back on the software later on.
But to do that you will need HUGE reserves of money to hold out untill the scale of sales make a profit.
Aos4 can not do that.
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Alkemyst wrote:
i Get my info from the Aone & Aos4 ML.
Maybe you should to.
That would be the same mailing list that gave us such important tidbits as "this isnt an MAI board", "we designed this board all ourselves", "we manufacture the AmigaOne", "all boards will be delivered before Christmas"??? Yeah you are right, I dont find it full of alot of factual data there.
And the fact is dongle or no dongle if there is a lot of Os4 copying then its all over.
THE USB dongle can be cracked as well.
Sure, just like the Cool Amigaone Rom Dongle (CARD), but the USB dongle allows people to buy the OS to try their other platforms, there is no such product with the CARD (tm) approach that Eyetech has implemented and so anyone who wants to try and run AmigaOS on a PPC board they have around will be FORCED to pirate the OS. Gee that seems like a good way to prevent piracy, dont let people buy the OS.
the hope is that enough ppl will buy Aone/Aos4 before it cracked.
If that were true then they should make it available to the most amount of people they can, they are not, AOS4.0 is good for Eyetech and thats about it.
& let it run on every type of PPC mobo huge choice for the users millions of AmigaOs users running copied version of Aos4.
But very little money for the Aos4 coders.
All firms do whats best for them first to keep then afloat.
First of all there are not millions of AmigaOS users, there have not been millions of AmigaOS users for years, add to that that over 1/2 the professional Amiga Users out there have no interest in the Amiga One because it wont run their hardware. I have yet to figure out why limiting the amount of people who can run your OS (Amiga Inc/Hyperion) is the way for the OS company to maximize profit, they dont teach that in economics here, maybe you can explain it. I want to buy a copy of AmigaOS 4.0, but not an AmigaOne, why wont they let me do that, doesnt that seem like it would increase sales, and thus make more money for the company??? Or is Eyetech giving kickbacks to Amiga Inc for each unit, which is why we are paying $150 premiums on CARD enabled Teron boards??
-Tig
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Minion wrote:
I have to say that when working as a HP/Compaq engineer, when I meet IBM engineers on site they're generally arseholes.
Yea, I'm sure where they work made all the difference in the world. I'm sure there are no arseholes working at Compaqard?
:-o
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Lambs to the slaughter,
Eyetech and Amiga inc are liars and the quicker you hero worshipers deal with that the better,
Face facts the TeronONE board and OS4 is a SCAM to force Amiga zealots to buy already out of date machines.
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Paul_Gadd right on man.
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About the Aone ML
just like any other ML there are some good stuff & some bad stuff.
Take the rough with the smooth
Make it avail to as many ppl as they can.
your style is Aos4 with USB dongle.
that only would works on the MAI board at this time cos of the HAL.
wich you totally ignored.
Yes there are not millions of amigaOS users but there soon would be as if there was no protection in Aos4.
millions of a type of OS user's = nothing. you want millions of paying OS users.
no wonder linux is the fastest growing OS on the x86 platform Its free most SW for it is free as well.
very little of pay for SW for linux is for the home user cos the linux home user dont want to pay.
For the part you dont understand about limiting the OS to the HW Apple seems to do ok.
You want a copy os Aos4 but not an Aone.
If its cos you think the Aone is crap hardware then your on a no winner here.
cos atm Os4 will only run on the same HW with USB dongle, HAL only for MAI mobo atm & for amiga PPC cards.
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OK paul what the solution for ppl who want to run Aos4.
All you can do is moan & never offer any help.
I dont like how Amiga.inc done things anymore than you do.
but i would not knock ppl & call them Amiga.ink lovers cos they want to run the next version of the O|S they have liked & have beenuseing for years.
Maybe you have not noticed that Amiga.inc is not Making Aos4 & im glad they are not.
When you see me deffend Amiga.inc in a comment when they have clearly done yet another stupid thing then you then may have the right to call me An amiga.inc lover.
But i have not. so hold your mouth.
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@mips
Paul_Gadd right on man.
Didn't you just spend your hard earned (heh) cash on a Pegasos?
It's the same hardware.... or at least the same spec.
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I orderd a Pegasos yes... similer it is...but it isnt attached to eyetech or A.inc... and I'm not a zealot about the board... I know that a P4/AthlonXP will crush PPC and that the boards features are fairly out of date and obselete....
I think pauls referring to the zealots/cheerleaders who for no other reason then the name 'Amiga' sit and preach superiority for it... I've talked that one to death so I'll leave it at that.
and I didnt work 'hard' for the money I blew on the peggy :P
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@Alkemyst
It really must be tearing you apart knowing what so called wonderfull Amiga companies are really like, liars,theives,cheats,scammers,fraudsters,con artists,amateurs,
OK paul what the solution for ppl who want to run Aos4
I want to see OS4 run on a PPC machine of my choice instead of a poor board what has not even got DDR slots on it which is pathetic,
I have nothing against people who want to buy a TeronONE but i find it hard to believe REAL PEOPLE are worshiping Amiga companies so badly it is going out of control.
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My opinion on this AmigaONE clones dispute...
It seems (as the original plan of an Eyetech/Escena designed AmigaONE have failed) that only OS4 determines if something is an AmigaONE or not. Yet I doubt (opinion, for the two nitpickers) that if someone purchases a few hundred Teron boards from MAI and applies for a license to Amiga Inc will ever get a licence.
Eyetech invested a serious amount in developing an AmigaONE, even if fruitlessly. They are now little more than distributors of a dongleised Teron, and clearly at the mercy of Hyperion.
The strange thing is, there is no OS4 yet, but AmigaONEs are out. In the moment Hyperion announces OS4 for either the Teron or the Pegasos, AmigaONE buyers are shot in the back.
Another issue, that it's Amiga Inc granting the licenses, not Hyperion. Three different companies, three different interests. Hyperion holds the cards though, Amiga Inc only has veto - they can withdraw the permission of IP usage from Hyperion.
The question is - which company of the three is interested having this OS available on other platforms than Eyetech boards?
Eyetech is absolutely not. The question is, how much influence Eyetech has on Amiga Inc and Hyperion.
Amiga Inc? They play no role in the game. Even if they want OS4 on a board on which Hyperion doesn't, they cannot force Hyperion to port OS4.
Hyperion? Hyperion has become the key factor with an unfinished product. (Not unusual in the Amiga market, sad to say) The question is, what their contract's contain - something we will never know.
That's it. The contracts, licenses, permissions and vetos make up nothing more than about 10% of the issue. These lay out the possible movements, but we don't know the matrix of possible moves, so it's a waste of time speaking of it. We may guess however, and get a rough picture where we can place our three companies. The rest is dirty marketing crap and even dirtier politics.
Speaking of clones running AmigaOS 4 when it is not available is really a good topic to chew on. Sigh.
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The question is - which company of the three is interested having this ..........Amiga Inc? They play no role in the game.
Sure they do !!!
Ben Hermans claimed that AInc gets very little of every copy of OS4
and that the OS4-licence is free (believing that is another thing).
The licence for the name "AmigaOne" ain't free and that is the only part
were AInc could make some money (to rebate al those coupons ??).
So the question si what is more important to AInc ?
Making OS4 a success, and therefore spreading to as much HW as possible ?
Making a maximum of money without any work and in a minimum of time ?
Looking back the last 3 years the answer should come easy :-x
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Alkemyst wrote:
Make it avail to as many ppl as they can.
your style is Aos4 with USB dongle.
that only would works on the MAI board at this time cos of the HAL.
wich you totally ignored.
You guys have let the word HAL became scary and have power over you. Those of us that deal with HALs every single day, laugh at your fear and throw popcorn at you. True if the only HAL that was ever supported was the great HAL of Teron, then this process would only support the 1000s of boards of boards Terrasoft and the other distributers will sell, but even that makes the OS 4.0 platform larger. But what would really happen is new drivers and a modified HAL for other PPC solutions would become available and as this happened more and more people would buy OS 4.0. Gee that sounds like a good idea again, much better then the Eyetech CARD(tm) idea.
Yes there are not millions of amigaOS users but there soon would be as if there was no protection in Aos4.
millions of a type of OS user's = nothing. you want millions of paying OS users.
Do you really believe that, do you really believe that millions of people are sitting around waiting for OS 4.0???? My approach offers as much protection as the CARD(tm) approach but increases the number of boards the software will run on several fold, with the promise of it running on even more platforms. Thats more users not less, Eyetechs limited resources wont ship 5 figures worth of boards next year.
For the part you dont understand about limiting the OS to the HW Apple seems to do ok.
You really dont want to have this conversation with me, first of all last year Apple sold about 2% of the computers worldwide, thats right 98% were not Macs, in fact 97+% were x86 boxes. Secondly despite high prices etc, Apple is not making money with their computers, look at their quarterly reports for the last 4 quarters, only one quarter did the computer division make money. Is that really a model we should push for??? Which of the 3 companies of the current OS 4.0 effort have a big non computer profit center to offset computer division losses???
You want a copy os Aos4 but not an Aone.
If its cos you think the Aone is crap hardware then your on a no winner here.
cos atm Os4 will only run on the same HW with USB dongle, HAL only for MAI mobo atm & for amiga PPC cards.
If the OS is any good, it will get moved to better hardware, only Hyperion and Amiga Inc wont get royalties for it because it will have to be a cracked version, the other option would have had it people buying the OS for those hardware options. Talk about encouraging piracy. And lets be honest, for the price AmigaOne is crap hardware, its scary to have to pay more for an amiga then a comperable mac. New Imac 700 Mhz G4, memory, video card, 15 inch flat screen, case, harddrive, DVD rom drive $1199. AmigaOne G4 board $850, think you are going pick up all the missing stuff for $350??? Anyone else think they can pick it up for $350??? Gee that could be an Aos 4.0 platform, they only sold 750K units last year, oh wait no lets lock ourselves to the Teron + CARD(tm) board thats much better.
-Tig
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@Alkemyst
This issue has nothing to do with piracy...'millions' of people
nor the 'average joe' are going to buy outdated hardware to
run OS4. Would you buy a G3 or single G4 if you already
had a much faster Mac or PC? That's part of the issue...they
are limiting the OS to a few die - hards and the hands of a
few small companies. If the OS were available for purchase
to the 'millions' or the 'average joe' the losses due to
piracy would be drastically reduced. It's not quantum
physics ; a broader market (by at least tens of thousands)
= higer sales = higher profits = more money to fund
better OS technologies.
The piracy card is just a card. Its intended purpose
is to smokescreen the real issues....
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Wow what a load of garbage this all is. :)
A few facts first:
- Terrasoft made an announcement in december about selling Teron boards. Eyetech has been showing the same board with the rom dongle (AmigaOne) for months now.
- Hyperion reworked PPCboot thats on the Teron and AmigaOne.
- MAI's own Teron board was a far cry from what it is before Eyetech showed up at thier doorstep.
Even if i was into conspiracy theorys i wouldn't even touch this one.
Just reciently MAI's site shows a Teron board with the same specs as Eyetech's designs. Call me a liar if you wan't, i can remember how pathetic a board the Teron was a year ago. Do i think Eyetech just bought Terons from MAI like some people here are insinuating? Not a bit.
What i believe is the truth, Eyetech had too many problems with the custom chips they were working with before and spotted a PPC ATX board at MAI that with some changes would make a decient PPC board. They contacted MAI and MAI said sorry, we can't make a motherboard, we got this thing built at some far eastern company, here's thier phone number. Eyetech gets with this company and makes the A1 design. MAI comes back later, sees an even better board sporting thier chipset and places it on thier site. Why not, a better board makes thier chips look better. Terrasoft sees the board and orders 1k and sells them as linux systems.
People start saying that it's all MAI's designs, forgetting Eyetechs specs, Hyperions work on PPCboot, etc, and claim all Eyetech have done is hack in an extra socket to corner the market. All of it garbage but even if they did, hard cheese. :) There is only one motherboard design capable of running the OS, contrary to what the experts say and there is only one company supporting Amiga OS, thats Eyetech.
Your not going to get OS4 without buying the rom dongle. Hyperion don't give a damn if you like it or not and who could blame them. They wan't to sell the OS. If you wan't to buy a ppc board from MAI or Terrasoft, ask them to go to Hyperion and see if they will strike up a deal. All it takes is a USB dongle (pennies a unit), shrinkwrap it with the CD and there you go, choice of hardware.
But Eyetech are already doing that and for only a few bucks more. I care so much for that extra $100 when i've just forked over 50 times more for a system? Not when it's running Amiga OS too.
If any of you wan't OS4 on other PPC motherboards besides the AmigaOne i'd like to see you try convincing them to support Amiga OS. Apple sure won't, and all the wouldbe hackers here haven't got a clue of how much work they are in for when they try porting Amiga OS to MAC hardware. IBM? haha sure, i'll pay 10k for a power4 system just to run OS4, which it wont run on anyway. There IS Terrasoft though. It's about the only other place selling a board capable of running the OS. But nobody's going to give you OS4 for it unless it's protected so, you better beg Terrasoft to offer it along side linux. That or convince Hyperion to release a pirate version of the OS just for you. Good luck with both though. Actually, Terrasoft might consider it. If you can get $5 from an Amiga fanatic, why not take his money?
In the end, for all the BS'ing and name calling around here, i don't see what difference any of it would make. The OS still only runs on a board that was designed by Eyetech and won't run anywhere else. The Terons on MAI's site start at $6000, less if you buy in bulk but i only want one! Terrasoft has a board nearly identical but it won't run the OS because of no support for the OS. It's a bit cheaper, but ya know what? For $50 more it's worth it to me to go with the AmigaOne, just to dual boot the OS. And even if Terrasoft were to wrap OS4 with thier boards, it would still be the same price as the Eyetech offer! It seems all it is, is the price of the OS that everyone is bickering about.
Hard luck.
Still would like a power4 running Amiga OS though. :)
Ok, flame me as a troll, fanatic, zealot, blind follower, or worshipper or whatever else you can think up to make me look like a nut.
Anyway, Happy New Year everyone! :)
Ivan
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@ivan
You've just confirmed what i've been saying, the A1 is NOT a rebadged teron board, more has gone into it than that......
Eyetech should be applauded for at least giving us the option of a decent PPC based Miggy, nevertheless, dont expect to see a clone anytime soon... FUD my arse, it's the way it is, deal with it...
Zealots or trolls need not apply.
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>This issue has nothing to do with piracy...'millions' of people
>nor the 'average joe' are going to buy outdated hardware to
>run OS4. Would you buy a G3 or single G4 if you already
>had a much faster Mac or PC? That's part of the issue...they
>are limiting the OS to a few die - hards and the hands of a
>few small companies. If the OS were available for purchase
>to the 'millions' or the 'average joe' the losses due to
>piracy would be drastically reduced. It's not quantum
>physics ; a broader market (by at least tens of thousands)
>= higer sales = higher profits = more money to fund
>better OS technologies.
>The piracy card is just a card. Its intended purpose
>is to smokescreen the real issues....
You completely overlook the fact that OS4 is FOR the diehards,
its FOR the current market, it WILL be spread to all that
wonderfull hardware in the future. Whats so funny is how some
of you can expect operations that take billion dollar
companys years to do from 2 or 3 small companys like Hyperion
Eyetech and Amiga Inc in the same time! Get in touch with the
reality of the situation for once. There are no millions
looking for the OS. Outside of the Amiga community there
are only pirates looking for a freebie.
The first order of business was to bring OS4 to the PPC cards
in our amigas now, then AmigaOne. If you think they are
going to putter about with G3's for the rest of time your
as blind as a bat.
(did this come off like a flame? sorry if it did, dont want to edit it)
Impatience i can empathise with though.
Ivan
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You Sir are a LIAR !
Okay folks let me say this again for you people who have not been listening.
AMIGAOS 4.0 WILL BE MADE AVAILABLE FOR ANY HARDWARE COMPANY THAT WANTS IT.
IF YOU WANT AMIGA OS FOR YOUR BLIZZARD OR YOUR PEGASOS BOARD
DON"T YELL AT AMIGA INC, HYPERION, OR EYETECH!!!!!!!
YELL AT GENESI/BPLAN/PHASE5 OR WHATEVER NAME THEY ARE CURRENTLY GOING UNDER.
THEY DON'T WANT YOU TO HAVE OS4.
They want you to run MorphOS.
Which they control and only runs on Their hardware ( PHASE5/DCE/Pegasos hardware is Their hardware
same people , same manufacturing equipment. )
If you want AOS 4 on your PEGASOS ask Genesi to make it available.
Only GENESI can make it happen.
BTW I don't know about you but I PAID TWO TIMES MORE FOR MY COPY OF LINUX THAN I DID FOR AmigaOS
V3.9.
Linux is free if you have gobs of free time , and are willing to compile and set up everything
yourself.
which is why alot of people !!BUY!! linux off the shelf. Or have a copy of an off the shelf
version installed.
MY PC version of SUSE Linux 8.1 Pro cost $79.00 well worth the money comes with nice books and a
couple of thousand programs on a stack of CD's.
MY Amiga version of SUSE PPC Linux 7.3 cost $79.00 comes with nice books and a couple of thousand
programs on a stack of CD's.
MY Amiga classic Version of OS V3.9 cost $39.00 no book one CD.
please if you want to Lie go elsewhere, spreading dissention
and mistrust helps no one. NOW GET A LIFE!
Kurt
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@Kurt
Get a bit of reality PLEASE !!!!
There is a difference between "don't want" and "don't care".
Genesi just DON'T CARE if OS4 runs on the Pegasos just like they don't
care if BeOS or IBMs AIX runs on it.
Do they prevent anybody from porting any OS ?
No, they are just won't sign any licence-deals for 3rd-party-SW.
Is the Pegasos documented good enough to port an OS ?
I would say docu on VIA-SBs and MAI-NBs should be easy to get, and
OF and no secret either. The rest could be pulled from sources of
a Linux-kernel.
At some time someone decided that OS4 will only run on licenced
and bundled HW, and that one did know that this was unacceptable
for bPlan and now Genesi.
Their decision, not Genesi's.
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bottom line is they dont want to sell OS4 to people like me....people who dont want to buy a 'special"(rebadged teronCX) motherboard to run their OS.... I want OS4 on my Pegasos...they dont want to sell it to me... you can sit and cry and carry on that OS4 needs this massive anti-piracy to keep people from stealing it...but the other side of the coin is...who really cares enough about OS4 to buy an A1 to run it? 'diehards' do... and those diehards would buy OS4 anyway...so there is no 'win' in tieing it to one board...
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@kronos
Don't get me wrong, i think the peg is a decent piece of hardware, better than the A1 maybe, but morphos isnt going to be enough to keep it alive... and i think you know that....
But nevertheless AOS4 wont make an appearance until eyetech have recouped their outlay.... which is sad b ut thats the way the market works mate.,..
Personally I would love a peg with os 4 over any other variant....
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@Kurt
I think this time you have gone too far. What was this if not "spreading dissention and mistrust"?
(Expecting Samface to step forth and protect you as usual.)
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@mips
For once i am in agrement with you.. nuff said.
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@Skyraker
Why ? The missing name ? How many people outside the "community"
would even consider buying a computer based on a name ?
Currently MorphOS is leading by a distance and after I read the latest
interviews were all Hyperion-guys said something like "no no I mainly
work on Mac/Linux/?? projects, OS4 is done by someone else" I
don't see tha gap getting closer. Genesi on the other side have been
hiring and licenceing like mad. Turboprint and a real JAVA-VM are
things that will be important. Genesi is also the only company working
on real new HW (eclipsis) that might be of interest to a wider market.
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@kronos
As much as i respect you as a vendor of handbugers ;), how can you say that MorphOS is leading the way, when AOS4 is not released, i'm all for seeing both sides of a story , but from what i hear MOS is not terribly comfortable when runnign 68k binaries ( I understand the technics here ), but nevertheless I see a perfect partnership of Pegasos and AO4, after all it is Amiga, and morphos (with the best intentions) is not.....
Basically mate, I want my Amiga back, and i dont care who provides this...
Are you listening people, forget the organisations behind this!!!! we want out AMIGA back..... who gives a toss who does it..... I just think IMHO peg + OS4 is the way, morph os ios no evolution....
please convince me....... I (unlike some) are open to suggestion...
Happy new year folks.....
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@Kurt
I give you credit Kurt when you want to spread lies you do it big style.
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@skyraker
When was OS4 shown public last time ?
Mid November on the WOASE.
The MOS I have here is from 24.10.02.
So it should be fair to compare those 2.
OS4 was 100% useless at that time, and alot of keyfeatures like
the 68k-emu hadn't been tested at all (on OS4-kernel that is).
I run GoldED-AIX without problems, I even use the highest setting
for syntax-highlightning that is recomended for CPUs >1ghz (in UAE).
Speed is more than good.
Compiling MorphOS-native SW is also no problem (gues what I'm
doing at this time).
How long until you can do that on an A1 (not in Linux-UAE) ?
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Bull! Kronos and YOU KNOW IT!
I don't Want to get Personal
BUT I KNOW THE TRUTH AND So Do You!
FACT!!!!!
Hyperion tried to get info in order to program AOS V4
for the Classic Amiga.
Bplan said no.
which is why we have no AOS V4 for the Blizzards.
Bplan blocked it even though it would have cost them nothing
to have AOS ported for the classic line.
What it would have cost them is more software support for MorphOS
and sales of Pegasos boards.
Which is exactly why it was done.
which is why you are saying what you are saying!
They DON'T Want IT PERIOD FACT!
HYPERION OFFERED BPLAN and the MorphOS Team.
to be part of the AmigaOS 4 team.
THEY said no!
THAT IS A FACT not the #$^#$ #$% Stuff you are saying.
Kurt
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oh and btw, if anyone is wondering why I am so anti Bill bluck then I have a message in my Inbox of amiga.org (i'm sure the mods will confirm this) from Bill Bluck threatening to come and visit me and 'have a word' , this is a cEO for christs sake...
i havent posted it, because in fairnes I called the guy a prick, but nevertheless, Mcewen gets called the same every day.. .does the man email people threatening to come to their house? NO
Peg is a nice machine , fronted by a retard....
I will post it if required, but it was sent in private
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Kurt then whats the point of the 'rom' ? ... the Pegasos is idential to the A1 aside from the VIA southbridge... wich isnt some 'closed' spec... Hyperion could make OS4 for Pegasos...
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@Kurt
Yeah and Ben is an angel in a white dress :-o
How hard do you think would it be to get that info using reverse-engeneering ?
You know Linux runs quite fine on that HW, and you can't really hide something
in a linux-kernel.
Well and bPlan offered Hyperion to produce games for MorphOS, but they said no !!
For some reason Ben wanted to save the Amiga single-handed, and everybody
else to work in his shadow (same on the other side).
Result: Clash of egos.
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by Kurt on 2002/12/31 21:33:17
>You Sir are a LIAR !
> Okay folks let me say this again for you people who
> have not been listening.
> AMIGAOS 4.0 WILL BE MADE AVAILABLE FOR ANY
> HARDWARE COMPANY THAT WANTS IT.
Why would "Hardware companies" want it? They make hardware. Targetting software is the job of "Software Companies" ie. Amiga inc.
I think this quote, from Ross Heinlein of Tratechnology, developers of the "Barbie" PPC board, sums up the position from a hardware manufacturers POV quite nicely.
QUOTE - Ross Heinlein
"I'm in developement of a POP board, the "barbie" http://penguinppc.org/dev/pop/ If I can make AOS4 run on this, I'll contribute my sources/drivers, if not, well, one board is better than none, eh? Barbie will NOT be licensing AOS, we don't deal with software companies, it's not our job to chase down OS developers. If you'd like to work on this board, fine, I'll help, if not, that's fine too. Your policy guarantees that your OS will only run on boards specifically manufactured for that purpose, which is very shortsighted considering many PPC boards are about to begin developement due to recently available PPC chipset solutions. You need to realise that as Hardware manufacturers, your OS licensing is NOT our concern, we just build hardware, we don't play games and tailor separate product lines for every "niche-OS" who has crazy ideas, you should rethink yours. I do not speak for my employer in a manner I can be held accountable for, but what I say is a valid representation of their (and my) views on the matter"
So far he's been right, the choices in available motherboards available in the POP PPC market have more than tripled since he's written that, and Amiga have positioned themselves in a way where they gain no advantage whatsoever from it.
Hardware companies -don't care- about AmigaOS because they have no incentive to waste their time with it for the prospect of a whopping 1000 sales. if you leave system integration up to the hardware developers, AmigaOS will simply be ignored, and Amiga has lost potential sales.
Ross is right, why would Tratechnology bother to go through the hassle of licensing, when there's nothing in it for them? Amiga, however, have something in it for them if they let their OS run on this board, sales!
The HAL issue with respect to this board is incorrect, this board is HAL-Agnostic compared to the Pegasos and the AmigaOne, this can be verified by examining the sourcecode available in the URL quoted from Ross above, Linux uses the same HAL for this group of boards listed there.
In any market, you're better off expanding your potential market, not limiting it.
In any business, you're best handling responsibility for market proliferation yourself, rather than expecting others to do the promoting of your product, that they gain little to nothing from doing anyway, for you.
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@Skyraker
That's why I always said that OS4 will be superior. Noone has ever seen it, but the Amiga sticker gives it such a degree of positive discrimination, that it will win once released, even if it will be technically inferior. If it will sport the same features, or will be better than MorphOS, then there's nothing to stop it. It's a boost not to be underestimated.
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different Boot roms
which is what it comes down to.
Hyperion can't program for a machine
without a machine and documentation.
Neither which is forth coming from Genesi
remember in most countries reverse engineering
software libaries are illegal.
So GENESI could Sue Hyperion for even attempting
to do a port for the Pegasos.
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@Skyraker
And I still got an email from Ben where he threatened to drag me int court
over voicing my opinion/suspicions.
No imagine Ben would have gotten sued everytime he spread unprooven stuff
about the competition.
And I even ain't "competition", quite on the contrary: abck than I was still
pro-OS4 :-o
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T_Bone
right on man..thats what I'm saying... nobody is gonna waste their time on AOS if they have to conform their boards to meet its strict license requirements... this is my opinon of course..but I think it's right...
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{this is from a CEO remember}
Hi
Skyraker, do we know each other? Have you spoken with me before? What do you think I have done to be described as a "prick?"
Do you have enough guts to meet me face to face somewhere? I sure would like to come to Stafford next week or in January and you could explain this to me. We could be in the UK for a number of reasons. How about it?
There has been plenty of challenges and difficulties for our Team to reach this point. We have been good to our word to everything we have said and done. I would really like to understand how you could feel this way about me when you do not even know me.
Bill Bluck
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whole thing is just a shame...makes me feel like this community is worthless now.... Skyraker thats messed up.
the magnanimous nature of business is lost due to the size of this community I suppose but its just sad it seems everyone takes this personally.... I mean... this is "ALL" opinon...its forums...I think "WAYNE" should put up a disclaimer that anything typed in these forums is opinon...or something... people take this 'way' to serious sometimes...
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No way in hell aos wcould ever be equal to mos on pegasos. forget it.
(http://www.forum-inside.de/images/emoticons/drink.gif)
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@Skyraker
?????? That is all ?
From your rants I would have expected something a bit more agressive.
He just asks why you insulted him, and if your men enough to say it into his face.
Now do the same with Ben .... but make sure you got a good lawyer ready ;-)
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@kronos
i'm man enough to say it face to face,..... but realise this: Bill Mc, would not be offering people out.. this is corperaye world not the bloody playgrond...
The guy IS a prick....... this is not about the peg, is about who runs the ship
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Well Sir I am no Liar.
I just Know what is going on
Remember folks
Bplan/Genesi/Phase5 are the same people who brought us the
WarpOS PowerUP war.
they did not want a standard PPC Library
for any PPC Board only an Library that worked on Their boards.
They are only willing to offer AOS V4 support if they where the only board to have it.
remember in the open letter to the community
Telling eyetech to abandon the Amigaone.
Then they would allow AOS V4 be ported to Their boards.
Kurt
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It seems everyone has his private souvenir from some parties. Mine is from a Hyperion employee telling a rather specific thing will never happen to MOS as he (they) will prevent it, and a few more hints on OS4's merits over MorphOS. All this because I made my email address available when once posting on ann. I never asked for that letter, but yes, it was among the many decisive factors to purchase the Pegasos/MOS over AmigaONE/OS4.
Hey! Now I see it crystal clear. PPL bothered by MOS fanatics buy AmigaONEs, PPL bothered by OS4 fanatics go the other way. I get it now. :-)
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@Warface
Damn right !!
Being called a "stupid uneducated clueless idiot" by that wannebe
lawyer (in public even) was really helpfull for my decision :-D
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@Skyraker
If any Joe wrote that then fair enough but cmon Buck you can not expect people to accept threatening comments in messages coming from someone in your status,
Madness and disgusting,
You may / may not be a complete prick but sending silly messages is a outrage,
Report him to his ISP.
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Kronos wrote:
@Warface
Damn right !!
Being called a "stupid uneducated clueless idiot" by that wannebe
lawyer (in public even) was really helpfull for my decision :-D
Oh yea, the "Uneducated American" thread on Ann.lu, kind of funny when it turned out to be a European he was directing that towards.
These companies sure are $%#$ rude to a shrinking userbase.
If they arn't alienating the userbase with licensing restrictions, they're taking in money for nonexistant t-shirts, or outright insulting the users. makes Microsoft look like the "good" guys by comparison.
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@T_Bone
No those were directltly targeted at me (I even forgot "foolish"),
in the "I know the exact number of NBs bPlan has"-thread.
And what did I do to deserve it ? I just asked Ben to either proove his claim
or to STFU !! I even tried to explain to him that such trolling would only hurt
his cause. I mean if he had been right about this, leaning back and waiting
for bPlan to crash is all he would have needed.
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@paull-gadd
no it's fair enough, i did call him a prick (and i stand by it) , nevertheless it was in passing, he's not a forum user, he';s a ceo of a company.....
Let him visit (name and adress supplied) , i'm not scared of anyone (except BA barraccus)... it's just not pukka behaviour for a CEO...
AI and Eyetech may be hush hush, but theyre not engaged in GWB diplomacy as BB is (cant speak of genesi as a whole)... perhaps I should bomb iraq, i dunno?
It's a question of who you going to buy your hardware from,?
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@Skyraker
Your position is easy to understand. And yes, these impressions last long. Bill Buck is a rather interesting fellow. Infantile at times. I personally will never step forth to protect his own actions :-)
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I wonder what is going to be next from these unfriendly Amiga companies? death threats, comments against family members, email bombs, spam, racist remarks, and other non friendly messages,
You disgust me.
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@ warface
I don't much care about individual loonies. But when company tries to Hoax me I tend to start looking for alternativies.
In general.. It looks like me that everybody has been hoaxed at least once.. And peoples sides depend on Who did it to them last time. --- Of couse some people seem to be so well trained they try their luck again with same company. :-D :-D :-D
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what is going to be next from these unfriendly Amiga companies? death threats, etc....
maybe send a family member's severed-finger in a ransom note, threaten to send "guido" to break your legs if ya dont give them money???
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Strange how MOS supporters come rushing in on a Aone topic.
Why should it matter to them about whats happening with the Aone/Aos4.
MOS ppl say that the Pegasos is better & that MOS is better.
So they should be happy & not worry about the products that are not as good & that they dont want, Aone/Aos4.
The Logic of all the concern is like me Buy Ibrowse 2.2 & saying this is the best browser so far.
Then worry if Ibrowse 1.2 was any good.
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mips_proc wrote:
Kurt then whats the point of the 'rom' ? ... the Pegasos is idential to the A1 aside from the VIA southbridge... wich isnt some 'closed' spec... Hyperion could make OS4 for Pegasos...
Well I want it to run Halo on my PS2! Microsoft could make it, they have enough money! But they want me to buy THEIR hardware! But I don't want to give them my money, I want to give it to someone else!
I am sorry this logic makes no sense to me.
If you want AOS4 then buy an A1 or a classic Amiga w/ PPC.
If you want MOS buy a Pegasus.
If you want a OSX buy a Mac
If you want WIndows XP buy a PC
If you want to play Halo buy an XBOX
It really is this simple
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I just started reading this thread, so please bear with me if I've yet to read something. The baords that run AOS4 don't need to be built around the dongle, they just need to be able to use it. Perhaps the POP marketplace, such as it is, could come up with some sort of "dongle port", including passthrough, so that whatever software company wants to dongle their software can do so without hurting the overall cost of the boards they want to write for. Perhaps the dongles could be USB based, for example.
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@Kronos and Tigger:
Do you really think Apple won't defend their own turf? Unless Apple provides those drivers, it ain't happening without an awful lot of litigation and people going to jail. Linux is a free OS that can be downloaded without cost. Amiga OS is a commercial product that would be in direct competition with Apple on their own hardware.
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@Alkemyst:
Oh my, what a disaster, then maybe they are not fanatics. Maybe they'd like to have OS4 exclusively or along with MOS on their machine, be it a Pegasos, a Macintosh, whatever.
Guess that there is no enemy lurking in every post, and MOS fanatics on every corner is not an option to you. Sure, normal people don't buy Pegasos/MOS, every single purchaser must be a MOS/PEG zealot. Pathetic.
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Amiga OS is a commercial product that would be in direct competition with Apple on their own hardware.
:lol: :lol: :roflmao: :roflmao: :lol: :lol:
Do you really think Apple would care about a few thousand freaks
running an odd OS on their HW ? HW that is sold in 7 digit numbers a year ?
Yes "new world" Power-Macs arev documented and that is why Linux
runs on them (the iMac and Laptops are a bit different).
I don't mind OS4 being tied to one specific piece of HW, but won't
accept all these licence-BS, when it is just used to blame someone
forit, when it is really the lack of resources(finacial and time) preventing it.
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That would be the same mailing list that gave us such important tidbits as "this isnt an MAI board"
See below, please.
From the MAI Home Page:
Mai Logic Incorporated is a total solution IC system design house devoted to customer satisfaction.
Mai Logic is focused on revolutionary chipset architecturing that delivers high-performance solutions to enable the most demanding applications. It supports the current line of PowerPC as well as next generation microprocessors.
By teaming with its strategic partners, Mai Logic has developed complete system design capabilities, including boards, firmware, device drivers, OS, and applications. Mai Logic's solid engineering job guarantees its end-to-end product offering conformable to industry standards and environments.
As one of few design houses combining million-gate-count pure logic with cutting-edge “non-PC” system solutions, Mai Logic provides technologies serving traditional RISC microprocessor based applications and other emerging markets with great flexibility for customization.
they said it's not an MAI board because---get this, please---it's not an MAI board.
MAI makes IC chips and partners with companies that make boards.
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Billsey wrote:
@Kronos and Tigger:
Do you really think Apple won't defend their own turf? Unless Apple provides those drivers, it ain't happening without an awful lot of litigation and people going to jail. Linux is a free OS that can be downloaded without cost. Amiga OS is a commercial product that would be in direct competition with Apple on their own hardware.
The very same Terra Soft company we are talking about who is the big distributer of the Teron boards from MAI, also ships its Yellow Dog Linux (PPC linux) on Apple computers, in fact they are an Apple OEM and the Macs they ship have full Apple warranty etc. In fact they will even load Mac on Linux on the machine if you want them too. Apple is a hardware company really, if they can ship hardware thats great to them, they'd love another OS to run on their hardware at this point. In answer to your other dongle question. The issue is that the OS isnt coded to check for a USB dongle which would have been fine. Instead its looking for a Rom on a motherboard, noone is going to make special boards (I'm sure you've seen the comment from the Barbie guys), we cant even use the same board as Eyetech is supplying, because they are soldering a new Boot Rom to the motherboard. If the OS had a USB dongle instead we'd have hardware options, we dont now, and thats an issue. If Eyetech runs into money trouble, supply problems, etc we have no Amigas, thats a crazy situation for Amiga Inc as a software company to allow itself to be in, and almost equally crazy for Hyperion who gets paid on software unit sales.
-Tig
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Well I want it to run Halo on my PS2! Microsoft could make it, they have enough money! But they want me to buy THEIR hardware!
bad example... this isnt one console architecture to another... (wich BTW is very hard to port Xbox games to PS2)..... this is an OS...and the A1 isnt their hardware...its eyetechs...it would be great to see OS4 run on pegasos.
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Billsey wrote:
That would be the same mailing list that gave us such important tidbits as "this isnt an MAI board"
they said it's not an MAI board because---get this, please---it's not an MAI board.
MAI makes IC chips and partners with companies that make boards.
Billsey,
I'm sorry, this has been beat into the ground so hard everyone should have a clue by now. The board is MAI's, here look:
Eyetech to distribute MAI boards (http://www.mai.com/news&events/PressRelease070902_2.html)
These are the same boards TerraSoft is distributing, its the same board MAI showed to 1000's at Linuxworld in September. Its the same board that all the Linux sites are reviewing. They are MAI's boards, being manufactured by a subsidiary of Sanmina-SCI and then shipped out. I'm getting really tired of this disinformation about the board being spread around.
-Tig
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mips_proc wrote:
Well I want it to run Halo on my PS2! Microsoft could make it, they have enough money! But they want me to buy THEIR hardware!
bad example... this isnt one console architecture to another... (wich BTW is very hard to port Xbox games to PS2)..... this is an OS...and the A1 isnt their hardware...its eyetechs...it would be great to see OS4 run on pegasos.
It is not a bad example. The point is not how much work it would take to port Halo to PS2 or OS4 to Pegasus. The point is they have the right to drive their hardware sales with their own software. If I could run Halo on PS2, then I wouldn't buy an Xbox to play it. The same goes for the A1. If I can run OS4 on any hardware, why would I buy an A1? Amiga is only doing the same exact thing every other hardware company is doing. They are simply trying to sell hardware. Why is it not wrong that OSX only works on Macs. Apple could sell more software if I could run it on my A1. Or that Sony buys exclusive rights to the GTA series, so it won't appear on an Xbox? Rockstar could sell a lot more copies if it werte available on Xbox and Gamecube. But Sony wants to sell hardware so they buy exclusive rights to a game that will make people buy their system.
If you want to use OS4, buy an AmigaOne or upgrade your current Amiga.
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the major differance is microsoft makes the Xbox... owns Halo...and in the console market they dont stand the loose money by not porting halo to the PS2(wich is pretty incapable of playing halo(a game with new features) properly on such obselete 3D hardware)..
OS4 is made by hyperion... IP owned by A.inc...running on a board made by MAI and marketed by eyetech... its not like they are 'one' company and want to keep 'their' produce in house...
so I consider it a bad example...
furthermore the point of OS4 was never(and still isnt in words at least) to keep OS4 on eyetech only boards.... they arent supposed to care to force you to buy A1's to run OS4....
Amiga is only doing the same exact thing every other hardware company is doing. They are simply trying to sell hardware
but how does that make sense? from professed 'software' company? trying to sell hardware....eyetech is trying to sell hardware... hyperion is a software company...and A.inc is a software/IP company... why should they market the OS only on A1's for eyetech's benefit? do they get more money this way?...
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Paul_Gadd wrote:
Face facts the TeronONE board and OS4 is a SCAM to force Amiga zealots to buy already out of date machines.
With crap like this you are insulting me and all the people that put their time into OS 4. Why don't you just shut up?
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mips_proc wrote:
bottom line is they dont want to sell OS4 to people like me....people who dont want to buy a 'special"(rebadged teronCX) motherboard to run their OS.... I want OS4 on my Pegasos...they dont want to sell it to me... you can sit and cry and carry on that OS4 needs this massive anti-piracy to keep people from stealing it...but the other side of the coin is...who really cares enough about OS4 to buy an A1 to run it? 'diehards' do... and those diehards would buy OS4 anyway...so there is no 'win' in tieing it to one board...
Are you really *that* clueless, or are you just playing dumb? This almost provokes physical pain.
If you don't care about OS 4, then just shut the hell up and don't buy it. But your incessant whining is enough to provide a clear indication that there is a demand.
Please acknowledge that the people involved feel that they have every right to protect their investment in time and money in the project.
Please, also read Khronos' post. Genesi doesn't care about OS 4. I don't know if this is true or not (I'd venture to say it is), the end result is that they don't cooperate on OS 4 for the Pegasos, and without cooperation such an undertaking isn't going to lead anywhere. I am sick and tired of hearing from people like you that we are withholding or forcing anyone to do something - if you don't want it, go buy something else.
But for god's sake, stop calling us liars. And please stop bashing the old horse of the "rebadged" Teron, it doesn't really matter in the least who in the whole wide world produced the board. I personally wouldn't care if the board was produced by bPlan, MAI, Escena (ok, that was a good one), or the pope. Or do you think the Pegasos is bad because it is also sold as a Linux platform? Probably not.
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Kronos wrote:
Currently MorphOS is leading by a distance and after I read the latest
interviews were all Hyperion-guys said something like "no no I mainly
work on Mac/Linux/?? projects, OS4 is done by someone else"
Ah, twisting the facts as always, are you?
"All" Hyperion-guys that are saying they are working mainly on Mac/Linux is me, and me alone. If you can point me to a place where Thomas said this, I would be rather surprised. You also neglegt to mention the 35+ developers outside of Hyperion that where hired for the purpose, but then, you never really cared about the facts.
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35 ?? Wow that list is still growing ....
But tell me, do you still count Mason (now come on nice icons, but
OS-developers), Strunzi (gives you access to his CVS) and all the
"I'll add a tiny tool to it" ?
O.K. not sure about Thomas, but that would leave exactly one men
working full-time on the core components ........ see you in 04 :-P
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Rogue I do respect the people involved.. I just feel what their doing is limiting 'them' ... I think OS4 will be a solid good product... and I would like to be able to use it...thats my main qualm.. I want to use it..I personally might shell out and buy an A1 to use it if/when its all ready...
but by making it run with this rom... It limits the OS I feel..and I think OS4 on pegasos would be a good idea...I agree completely that you have a right to protect your time and investment in it...but do you really think you will sell more OS4 if you rom it to a board? I mean think about... do you think people in this community will just go and steal OS4 after they buy a 500+ dollar board to run it? I dont think it would make sense... I agree with the Genesi thing to an extent they have MOS now and OS4 dosent intrest them... but BeOS didnt intrest apple nor does Linux... and I ran both on a G3 mac a while ago...I dont see where the 'rom' makes this so much more profietable... I'd like to hear your side of how that works? if you could explain...
I also dont think your a liar... you call it an "A1' and HP calls their computers HP(whatevernumber) even though they may be useing ECS boards.... just because I say its a rebadged Teron dosent mean I'm calling 'you' a liar... I just dont go along with the people (not the developers/etc) who sit and say that the board was somehow 'custom' engineered by eyetech or whoever they claim did it.....when it wasnt(from what I've seen).... I also add this is my opinon and it may be flawed but I think if you look at this from an general computer users stance...you can see why people like me think OS4 shouldnt be 'romed' to anything...since all anti-piracy measures to date (virtually all) have not worked for anyone else(companys with quite a deal more R&D to put into it IE:Sony,IBM,Microsoft)... so I dont view it so much as a 'anti-piracy' measure... my view isnt based upon the marketing brochures...and it may be wrong...but I dont view it as anti-piracy.. sure I can respect their intention to say it is... because their working on this alot more then I am...but in the long run is it good for you guys? is it good for eyetech and for everyone? .... I question that...
In any case... I have nothing against any of you personally..and I hope you dont find my posts offensive in a personal nature... you're the only ones really working on AmigaOS right now and I'd hate to see ya quit doing it...
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T_Bone wrote:
Minion wrote:
I have to say that when working as a HP/Compaq engineer, when I meet IBM engineers on site they're generally arseholes.
Yea, I'm sure where they work made all the difference in the world. I'm sure there are no arseholes working at Compaqard?
:-o
I didn't say why. In the projects where I am working where there are IBM engineers on site its coz we stole the contract off them, and therefore their work, and as most of us are independant contractors aswell, we only gat paid for the days work we do. Therefore we cost them money.
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Paul_Gadd wrote:
OK paul what the solution for ppl who want to run Aos4
I want to see OS4 run on a PPC machine of my choice instead of a poor board what has not even got DDR slots on it which is pathetic,
Guess you dont know much about hardware then.
DDR would make NO DIFFERENCE!
You are a sucker for tech bullsh*tspeak.
The FSB runs at 133MHz, and the CPU only runs at 600-800MHz, for which PC133 memory is fine.
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Kronos wrote:
But tell me, do you still count Mason (now come on nice icons, but
OS-developers), Strunzi (gives you access to his CVS) and all the
"I'll add a tiny tool to it" ?
No, these are people actively working on a component of the OS, not counting GUI designers, Icon designers, and most of all not the translators.
O.K. not sure about Thomas, but that would leave exactly one men
working full-time on the core components ........ see you in 04 :-P
OK, not sure about? No, not OK. Exactly my point. You don't know, yet you feel the urge to post it. Thomas is not the only one working on it, there are others.
But thank you, you just admitted that you post stuff without actually knowing the facts.
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@ Rogue
Hi. I believe many people are curious about OS4, could you please mention in which state of development it's in now? Is Hyperion aiming to show a finnished and tested product in March? Or will it perhaps even be released then?
Thanks ...
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I'm sorry, I am not going to make any statements about the current state of development anymore. I have stated the reasons for this recently on the AmigaOS4 list on yahoogroups - anything that I say will be intentionally misinterpreted, the facts twisted and talked to death on rumour mills. Examine the list archive if you are interested.
Recent examples prove me point, really...
I'm afraid you will have to wait for official updates. There are too many members of the MIF around here (that 'M' doesn't stand for MorphOS, in case someone wants to flame me for that).
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@Rogue
Oh well, I understand your reasons, yet another victory for the fud spreaders then :-(
Eyetech will have to wait till OS4 is released then before they get my money. :cry:
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If you want it, ask Genesi to licence it. Porting OS 4 to the Pegasos is not a matter of good or ill will. Like Kronos pointed out, Genesi doesn't care about OS 4, even if some of their customers would want it, but there is nothing that either Hyperion or AI could do about this. A public offer of free hardware on some MorphOS mailing list hardly suffices. A call or an email to those involved would have been a bit less public but a lot more genuine.
Please note that this is not only a matter of licencing - there already was a clear "no" to us long before the licencing scheme ever came up. It's also not about Donglization - a USB dongle would do the same job. It is also not about exclusivity - there is no exclusivity involved in the OS 4 licence, since Eyetech also sells the machines as Linux only.
It is true that anti-piracy methods don't do much good, but they at least prevent some of the casual copies. Put it any way, but piracy is a problem, not only on the Amiga.
All buyers of an AmigaOne will get a licence to OS 4 included. I am not ready to judge how many buyers of a 500 + dollar mobo are going to pirate their stuff - I think the amount of piracy on the Wintel market speaks for itself, they also buy 500 dollar systems and pirate; some (mind you, some) people seem to think that paying for hardware is OK because you can touch it, but paying for software is useless since it is just magnetic bits.
The comparison between Genesi (or any Amiga company) and Apple is rather far fetched - if we could divide the sales that Apple has between all of the Amiga companies in existance, we'd all be considerably better off. Apple doesn't need to care for alternative OSes besides their own.
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How much is Amiga charging in licensing per unit on AmigaOne boards, $50 dollars?
Amiga is trying to collect its revenues from hardware sales, because at $50 bucks a pop, or whatever the actual number works out too it is going to be hard to hide that fee in anything but a large purchase.
I think we all want to cut Amiga right out of that income stream without any regrets...that doesn't mean we want to pirate OS 4 or not allow Hyperion, or even Amiga, Inc. to profit from OS 4.
But burying a huge fee in the teron board, which they didn't develop and won't be developing, ever....I don't care for that, I'd rather buy a terrasoft board. You can sell me os 4, if you want, in which case I'll buy it, if you won't sell it to me, don't fault me for not purchasing it.
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If you want it, ask Genesi to licence it.
I know that in the light of the current licencing scheme it may sound naive, but...
Why don't you distribute AmigaOS4 as a standalone product? In different versions, onboard rom protection for the AmigaONE (at a discount maybe) and USB dongled version for Teron and Pegasos.
What good comes from forcing hardware manufacturers (with a competing product, not to mention) licence OS4? (Which they most obviously won't, thus limiting OS4 to AmigaONE and CPPC, less income for Hyperion)
Yes, I honestly confess, I have little clue about the contracts made, as most probably only a few know their content, so in light of something I don't know about it all may sound silly. But I see the current licencing scheme as limiting (users have to pay for OS4 anyway) for OS4. (on the other hand grants the income for Eyetech as a return for their vast investments, but a discount on the AmigaONE version may be sufficient in my eyes)
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MarkTime wrote:
How much is Amiga charging in licensing per unit on AmigaOne boards, $50 dollars?
Amiga is trying to collect its revenues from hardware sales, because at $50 bucks a pop, or whatever the actual number works out too it is going to be hard to hide that fee in anything but a large purchase.
I think we all want to cut Amiga right out of that income stream without any regrets...that doesn't mean we want to pirate OS 4 or not allow Hyperion, or even Amiga, Inc. to profit from OS 4.
But burying a huge fee in the teron board, which they didn't develop and won't be developing, ever....I don't care for that, I'd rather buy a terrasoft board. You can sell me os 4, if you want, in which case I'll buy it, if you won't sell it to me, don't fault me for not purchasing it.
Do you know wether they charge anything at all? If so, do you know wether they charge per board or as a single one-time fee? If you don't have the answers, stop spreading this FUD. Yes, it is FUD as in Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. End of story.
Amiga Inc. making money on the brand... LOL! I just can't help myself from laughing everytime I see this weird conspiracy theory popping up on Amiga forums. I mean, how much do you expect them to make out of a nearly extinct and forgotten trademark? Do you really think M$, the most profitable IT business in the world, would strike partership deals with them if they were to be such pathetic swindlers? Yes, they have broken a few release dates, I know. But, does that really make them swindlers that is just trying to make some money out of owning the trademark? I'm sorry but the trademark cost them a whole lot more than they will ever make on trademark licence fees or whatever. It probably won't even pay the interest on the loan. No, the licensing issue is only about protecting their IP from IP thieves like ... sorry, I don't even want make them the favor of mentioning their name here. I think most of us knows what I'm talking about anyway... :roll:
Back to reality, guys. Amiga Inc. and their revolutionary plans of creating a complete new scalable, hardware independent platform and operating environment, has given third parties the ability to continue the classic Amiga product line of hardware and OS. Do you really think the success or downfall of these third party products will effect their plans and/or outcome at all? Do you even see a reason for why Amiga Inc would care about any of this at all if it wasn't for the fact that it is their IP? They wouldn't. The licensing scheme is for protecting the IP against certain illwilling companies out there (you know who), not because they think they will make a fortune from licensing fees.
$50 bucks for each sold board in licensing fees? LOL! Where do people get all this from, really?
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That (to my way of thinking) actually sounds a good idea, Warface.
Perhaps after Hyperion/Eyetech et al have recouped a decent proportion of their layout, your suggestion might be "the way forward".
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@MarkTime
I'm sorry, but you obviously do not know what you are talking about. You don't know the details for the deal, so you are in no position to argue.
Personally, I don't care who you want to cut out of the income stream, but it is certainly not upon you to decide. After all, Amiga Inc. paid for the licences and the Amiga name and most important for the OS.
Plainly, I find your comment very offensive.
If someone wants OS 4, he should get it legally, or not at all. The Terrasoft boards don't come with a licence.
OK, that's it. I've posted here against better knowledge, and I can already see where this is leading.
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Rogue wrote:
I'm sorry, I am not going to make any statements about the current state of development anymore. I have stated the reasons for this recently on the AmigaOS4 list on yahoogroups - anything that I say will be intentionally misinterpreted, the facts twisted and talked to death on rumour mills. Examine the list archive if you are interested.
I understand your point. But you must see the frustration in the community over the lack of information regarding this. You know, people are actually buying the A1's *now*, and they will of course be interested in knowing when (approximation of timeframe) they will be able to use them as Amigas. And I am interested as well.;-)
I'm afraid you will have to wait for official updates.
Then can we please have an official update? ;-)
No need for another promise, but perhaps a brief summary of the current status together with an approximation of the timeframe?
There are too many members of the MIF around here (that 'M' doesn't stand for MorphOS, in case someone wants to flame me for that).
Uhm, perhaps I'm clueless, but what does 'M' stand for? :-) And MIF too, for that matter?
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@ Rogue.. I think I'm not the only one that is pleased by your posting here !!
By defending your product against the "Nay-Sayers" your showing that you DO CARE, and that gives me a good feeling about lashing out a *shitload of money on a A1 G4-XE & os4.
Way to go (as the yanks say).
:-)
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Rogue wrote:
OK, that's it. I've posted here against better knowledge, and I can already see where this is leading.
I was honestly surprized to find you here (in a positive way). :-)
It has been a lot of silence recently, and I really think it's good to see at least *some* communication between the industry and the rest of the community. Anyone with a solid case shouldn't be scared of debating, especially with a "The opinion expressed is mine and does not nescessarily repesent that of Hyperion Entertainment"-disclaimer.
So keep it up! :-)
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I'm afraid you will have to wait for official updates. There are too many members of the MIF around here
The North American Amiga Optimist Society condemns the MIF.
--------------------------------
North American Amiga Optimist Society
January 2, 2003
All Rights Reserved.
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oh please, your arguments are weak...the only response is, you don't have official knowledge.....that is no denial AT ALL.
I suppose you believe Amiga did not get $50 bucks from a coupon deal/club because Amiga is extinct and that is impossible....Oh they could never get 50 bucks off the Amiga name!
GONG! WRONG, they did.
Another example, a terrasoft board in the US costs under 500, the AmigaOne nearly 600 at most dealers.
It doesn't take insider knowledge to know that REAL world you are paying close to a hundred dollars for that Amiga name.....it doesn't take any insider knowledge to know if you could run AOS 4 on a terrasoft board or a pegasos, you could save nearly $100 bucks in the US. Or could you? If they had to pay the same licensing fee's who knows...
You arguments are weak and make little sense. Real world, there is a huge premium on the AmigaONE board that is impossible to deny.
Just saying that an individual has been denied access to the reasons for this huge premium, doesn't defend the situation at all.
there is a real world, undeniable real world premium on AmigaONE boards, and that is not FUD at all.
And if its not costs, then its greed, but regardless of the excuse it exists.
I say my guess is right on the money, they charge $50 bucks.
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@Rogue
I asked a question, is the amount $50 bucks?
I made no claim to insider knowledge, nor do I need any to notice the premium in price for an AmigaONE over other teron boards.
You are free to find my comments offensive, however, my comments were polite and reflect my thinking, and speak to my purchasing decision.
And I will not be the only amigan who doesn't purchase an AmigaONE and not the only person who purchases a Terrasoft board.
And for those us making that decision, we have certainly cut out Amiga, Inc. from any revenue on our hardware purchase, which is entirely our decision to make, its a free market.
Finally, as I stated before, I will buy OS 4, if you are willing to sell it to me, but if you don't, then I can't buy it.
Thats not a call for piracy, its common sense.
Anyway, now I am just repeating myself, but let me say this, it is pretty low to announce this huge offense based on a small an innocent post of mine. You just swoop in every once in a while, I actually have to live here, so be nice :)
:-D
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@Marktime
Piss off.
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I'm VERY surprised Wayne has let this thread go on ... & on .... & on .....& on....................
Usually locks out at 130 posts, up to 170 now.
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@MarkTime
Face facts, anything you say which is slightly negative about the Amiga will be classed as FUD by the die hards,
Turning blind eyes, worshiping companies which clearly are involved in FRAUD, defending companies which have done nothing but rip off Amiga users and protecting a company which used illegal code in its software,
If this was about Microsoft you people would be ripping them to shreds but it is about Amiga so we all should STFU and defend their illegal activites to anyone that speaks out.
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samface wrote:
Amiga Inc. making money on the brand... LOL! I just can't help myself from laughing everytime I see this weird conspiracy theory popping up on Amiga forums. I mean, how much do you expect them to make out of a nearly extinct and forgotten trademark.
$50 bucks for each sold board in licensing fees? LOL! Where do people get all this from, really?
Lets see we got the idea for the trademark thing from Fleecy and Bill at the developers meetings. (We also found out how much Fleecy likes sheep at those meeting 4 or more times per meeting), should we now think they found the error in their ways???? Did I miss the post when they recanted that????
As for Amiga Inc getting money for each Eyetech board, that theory was most recently addressed by Lawyer Ben (not to be confused with Gentle Ben who hung out with Ron Howards brother) who said that Amiga Inc got very little for each sale of the OS, and instead was making money on the sales of Eyetech boards.
Gee Whose FUDding now???
-Tig
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@Paul Gadd:
Disagree this time - not everyone, and most importatly not on every occasion defending Amiga Inc or Eyetech or Hyperion or whatever is a worshipper action or a zealot behaviour. Rogue has a point on the easily misinterpretable exact amount, however insignificant the exact number is. Many will remember the 50$ and think it's the sum, but we don't know for sure, as the contracts are not public. (And there is no need for that. Point.)
A bit more careful selection of the words, and the argument will be valid, tho. IMO
Try to be positive, see the bright side of life :-)
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As enjoyable and informative as this thread is, we're going for a new record on thread size. As such, it's time to close this thread and invite you to continue the conversation in seperate and new threads please.