Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: BuBBoB on May 10, 2017, 07:15:28 PM
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I bloody well knew it - Brian Bagnell wants yet more time and more money for the 'Commodore The Amiga Years' book. I feel that enough is enough. I want the book I paid up front for. If he he wants to follow it with an extended 20 volume extraveganza then fine, but give me the book I paid for - NOW!!!
Really really pissed off!!!:furious:
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Lol. I noticed the email in my inbox, didn't even have time to read it. Thanks for the summary! :lol:
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I too had mixed feelings about this announcement. But as I'm a huge fan of his first book and Christmas preview we had, I must say I just live on and hope live long enough to read it all! ;)
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I am absolutely rock bottom skint, so now it would seem as if I will only get 'Commodore - The Amiga first 26 months'. Is that what I paid for, I think not. Kickstarter need to tighten up on things like this. I knew he was heading for this. I just bloody well knew it.... :(
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Yea, you're quite right with this, but It's obvious it will be more expensive to print out 1200+ pages compared to original estimate of 700 or so.
So as someone said, he's only human and he couldn't predict this historical subject would have so much more to tell us about. I'm sure Bagnall will deliver most entertaining history reading of all. Even if we have to "contribute" a little extra waiting time and money.
I think cutting out lots of material would make for incomplete reading and it certainly will be worth waiting in retrospect.
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In his mail he also mentioned this:
"Backers would also receive the third eBook, The Final Years"
I'm also having mixed feelings about this, not sure yet.
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I rather have multiple books and have a more indepth experiance in this subject then a cut down version in a single book to be honest, tho it's no fun waiting for the last part and what happens if the last part don't get funded...
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Exactly, I want what I paid for now. If it needs a revised, improved, deluxe or whatever you want to call it edition so be it, but after the original promise is kept. It's a bit like;
Salesman Bagnell: 'Sir, you know that car you have on order I'm sorry to say that we cannot supply it to the original specification you ordered but we can get it with a V8 and metallic paint".
Me: "Sounds great, when can I have it delivered?"
Salesman Bagnall: "Well if you could just wait another unspecified amount of time and pay an extra unspecified amount of money I will have it to you asap"
Me: "But what am I going to do for transport, you promised me my car before christmas and then early in 2017?"
Salesman Bagnell: "Don't worry, it will be such an improvement you wont regret waiting"
Me: "But I need my car I ordered"
Salesman Bagnell: "Oh, by the way, you will need a double garage for the second car"
Me: "Ahhhhggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!"
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Could anybody post the content of the mail here (or mail it to me, if you don't want to post it)? I'd like to make a news item for amiga-news.de about it, but I need some more information than what's been posted.
Thanks.
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I didn't get an email, I went to the kickstarter site to find out the latest news and there it was.
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37
I Need Your Feedback
Posted by Brian Bagnall (Creator)
When typing last week’s Kickstarter update, something jumped out at me. The first book, Commodore: A Company on the Edge, dealt with basically 4 computers and comfortably fit into 540 pages. This book, The Amiga Years, deals with around 14 computers and 3 major unreleased computers. The entire story encompasses a longer time-frame. Other topics come along for the ride too, such as new chips, side-projects (genlock, scanners, Q-Link, Habitat, Geos, C64 mouse) and the people involved with these projects. This has naturally resulted in a book that is much less comfortable at 540 pages.
One thing began to worry me: this is going to hurt the quality of the book if I try cutting it down. There was a time when I thought the book would end up at around 700 pages, and cutting 200 pages was possible. Right now the book is over 1030 pages and growing. If I go forward with the plan of cutting from 1030 to 540, it will adversely affect the quality. Editing it down will also take a long time, resulting in a greater delay for backers.
My expectations have been changing since this project began. I started out thinking it would be a relatively small job to cover the Amiga Years, but as the research continued, the full scope of the story became apparent. The fact is, I’ve written two books worth of material since this project began! You guys can be the judge, having seen the first part of the book, but I don’t think I overwrote. I’ve tried to keep the writing pretty tight and minimal. This issue has slowly snuck up on me to the point where things have come to a head and it’s time to address this head on.
A New Plan
You've probably guessed by now that I'm considering a new plan. Before making any decision, this idea needs to go past you, the backers:
• I'm considering separating the current manuscript into two books: The Amiga Years and The Final Years
• The Amiga Years would start at the formation of HiToro/Amiga in 1982 and end when the Amiga offices in Los Gatos are shut down in March 1987
• Backers would receive The Amiga Years eBook ASAP. This includes around 2 years of never before seen material (compared to the preview released before Christmas) because the book goes to 1987 instead of 1985.
• The Amiga Years could go into layout once the final corrections are made, followed by printing.
• Backers would also receive the third eBook, The Final Years
• To finance the printing of The Final Years, another Kickstarter could be held later.
As much as I’ve resisted making this story into three books, it seems like that’s what the Commodore story requires. The meaning behind titles is often nebulous, and "The Amiga Years" referred to the period in time when Commodore produced Amiga computers. Now that title can describe the period of time when Commodore operated the Amiga company in Los Gatos.
These are some of the benefits to splitting the book:
• There will be fewer players to concentrate on in each book. With The Amiga Years, the original Amiga team will have the most focus throughout the book. It starts with them and it ends with them.
• Many interesting subjects will no longer have to be cut from the book.
• With less computers to cover, each book becomes more focused.
• Lots of things end in 1987, including Thomas Rattigan’s reign as CEO (along with “his” people). It’s a good place to divide the manuscript and it mirrors the ending of the previous book when Jack Tramiel left the company.
• Backers will receive the printed book and rewards much sooner.
• Good things come in trilogies! Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Star Wars. (okay, neither of these ended up with only three)
Let me know your honest feedback. As the people backing this project your input is the most important consideration when it comes to such a decision. Please post your thoughts below or send them via a personal Kickstarter message.
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What does he mean by 3 ebooks?
Is it that we've received the first pre-release already (book 1 covering 1982 to 1985). Book 2 would be cover the same time period but go to 1987 and 'The Final Years' would cover the period 1987 to 1994. Is this right? The only hardcopy we get would be book 2 'The Amiga Years' (1982 - 1987)?
I don't mind as long as the story gets told to readdress Apple's historical distortion field ;-) Saying that I wish some libraries would stock the hard copies.
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As a backer as well.. my take on it;
"The Kickstarter states "Take a journey from Amiga's beginnings in 1982 to when Commodore filed for bankruptcy in 1994" but nope we are now only going to get a printed book until 1987. Having purchased the other 2 x books "Commodore a company on the edge" I'm really disappointed this Kickstarter is not going to deliver what was promised. I'm also paying for one of the higher awards expecting this will be the "complete" book, but it now won't be; it will be only half the book I backed! Looking at the comments, I'm in minority here, but as a higher backer I was expecting the full story for the price I paid for the exclusives I had pledged for. Kickstarter creators should keep the original promise and not use the $$$ to fund other projects where we have paid $$$ already only to receive what will be half a book."
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Not surprised. Corporate histories are either huge or they miss lots of detail.
Which isn't to say I approve of the current situation, just saying that the delay might help.
If the guy wants more money on an agreed price, he's flirting with breach of contract elements or a stack of other legal nonsense, none of which gets a book out any quicker.
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I backed this, seem to be going well, if anyone else seen it
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/47744432/the-story-of-the-commodore-amiga-in-pixels?ref=activity
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@Thread
I think I understand this now. On the Edge: The Spectacular Rise and Fall of Commodore was an overview first edition that is now no longer available.
The 'first' book as referred to is Commodore: A Company on the Edge and is available for £90 used and £11.39 for the Kindle edition but is not included in the Kickstarter.
The 'second' book is the one we've funded Commodore: The Amiga Years. Which we will get in both eBook form and hard copy (depending on the level of backing).
The 'third' book will be called Commodore: The Final Years and we will only receive an eBook copy as it stands unless we sign up to a new Kickstarter.
Is this correct?
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@Thread
To be honest I wish I'd backed the David Pleasance book now as given the choice I'm far more interested in his view of the last days of Commodore UK than the official Commodore Business Machines (West Chester operated/Bahamas incorporated) story. Quite frankly the bungled release of the A300/A600, the A3000+ debacle and the disapointing A4000 release is better served from a UK perspective where C= UK still managed to sell a fair few of these machines.
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@Thread
At least if we preorder David Pleasance's book we are guaranteed the full story in two books before Nov 2017! I can't say I expect the second Amiga Years printed book to be ready by then.
https://downtimepublishing.com/products/commodore-the-inside-story (https://downtimepublishing.com/products/commodore-the-inside-story)
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Amiga in Pixels is being done by Chris Wilkins. He is awesome and always delivers on his Kickstarters and then some!
The Amiga Years Blu ray was bloody awesome too (so too was Bedrooms to Billions and they are now doing a Playstation documentary as well..which is another one I have backed).
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@Thread
At least if we preorder David Pleasance's book we are guaranteed the full story in two books before Nov 2017! I can't say I expect the second Amiga Years printed book to be ready by then.
https://downtimepublishing.com/products/commodore-the-inside-story
I can write the DP book for you now. "I am awesome I am awesome. Everybody else was doing it wrong. I thought of everything. I know nothing about computers, i could have been selling hats." The end
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I enjoyed the first book very much but has the author now become the George R.R. Martin of computer literature?
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I can live with this.
I'm a George R. R. Martin fan.
This is nothing. =P
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Indeed, I am in touch with a lawyer to see what she thinks of the situation, I want my book as promised or my money back.
From Kickstarters site:
"Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project? Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This (https://ksr-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/creator-responsibility.png) is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill."
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Having an attorney on-hand is probably very helpful. Have you contacted Kickstarter, yet?
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People are taking sh** a weeeeeee bit too serious, to be contacting lawyers and all that, over a book. :lol:
Me, I'm content to wait. If it shows up before I die that'd be nice. At this point in my life I'm too busy to have time to read, anyway. Maybe when I'm retired. ;)
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we are guaranteed the full story in two books before Nov 2017!
No you aren't: "ESTIMATED DELIVERY Nov 2017"
He is writing from memory, rather than having to track down and interview people, so that improves his estimate.
However, if it really is "NO HOLDS BARRED" then it will likely have to go through a rigorous legal process before publication.
I didn't back Brians book as I had pre-ordered it on amazon years ago, fool me once.... However I would certainly buy both volumes in paper back.
I'd buy Davids book in paper back too, hard back books are too big and awkward. It is only really justified for books with lots of pictures.
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Getting a lawyer? The world has gone mad. I am sure the book will be a fantastic read once Brian is writing under the duress of a court writ. It's a book dude, get over it.
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Indeed, I am in touch with a lawyer to see what she thinks of the situation, I want my book as promised or my money back.
From Kickstarters site:
"Is a creator legally obligated to fulfill the promises of their project? Yes. Kickstarter's Terms of Use require creators to fulfill all rewards of their project or refund any backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. (This (https://ksr-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/creator-responsibility.png) is what creators see before they launch.) We crafted these terms to create a legal requirement for creators to follow through on their projects, and to give backers a recourse if they don't. We hope that backers will consider using this provision only in cases where they feel that a creator has not made a good faith effort to complete the project and fulfill."
It's unlikely that Kickstarter's Terms of use will be enforceable by anyone other than Kickstarter. So you would need to talk to them, rather than a lawyer. The clue is "or even legal action on behalf of your backers".
Kickstarter may think he's being reasonable, in which case you've wasted your time.
Or they may ask him to deliver what was originally promised, in which case he'll cut and slash something together to meet those requirements. Which will not be worth owning.
The clause is there for people defrauding, not when it's impossible to deliver the original items but they instead deliver something slightly different.
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Yes, it certainly seems you have two choices.
Be mad at him and force him to release the original 540 page book he promised which will be cut down drastically
Or you can get the 1030 plus page book with part (somewhere around maybe 700 pages) in physical book, and the rest in an e-book. With an option to pay a bit more to get that third book also in physical copy.
Personally I am not happy about the delay this being the second one since it was first offered up as preorder a few years ago then never came out. But if it gets me a better book with more of the story (and I am also backing and getting Pleasance's book) I am not that unhappy to start threatening lawyers.
Have to remember, its not like he has a track record for defrauding us. He published and released the original version that I always felt raced through the Amiga and Commodore closing part. Due to that, I want to see those parts now given as much space as possible to give us a full accounting of those times for those of us who lived through them but with no internet had limited information about the behind the scenes goings on.
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I'm getting my lawyer too... might actually start a gofundme page to get the book I paid for. If he wrote the book over 1,000 pages when he knew he needed it to be only 500 odd pages, there's a simple solution. Reduce the spacing in between the lines and/or reduce the font size. He could also do a search on "that", "which" and remove them as they are often not required. He could also reduce the number of pages required by replacing Commodore with just the chicken head symbol and instead of writing Amiga it could be shortened to Miga, even.
Seriously this guy needs to write succinctly anyway... he knew what the Kickstarter was for, he would be seriously penalised if he wrote a 4000 word essay and the requirement was to only write a 2000 word essay. He would have failed at university! I guess he has all of our money now and thinks he can do whatever he wants. Write the book like he said he would, a complete book, not half a book and if you can't fit it in, make the spacing in between the lines smaller and or the font size smaller and take some of these other serious suggestions on board!
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Jesus %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ing Christ guys. Get over yourselves. It a wonder anyone does anything Amiga related with the bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! that goes on. Get over yourselves you worthless pieces of %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!.
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Nice tolerant response. Is it unreasonable to get the book I paid for or my money back?
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Nice tolerant response. Is it unreasonable to get the book I paid for or my money back?
Have you asked for your money back having explained to him what you have explained to us in this thread? I'm sure he doesn't want to upset people deliberately. I do know how you feel though as a similar situation happened to me. I just went with the flow though because Kickstarter isn't risk free and I don't expect perfection from anything never mind Kickstarter projects.
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Jesus %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ing Christ guys. Get over yourselves. It a wonder anyone does anything Amiga related with the bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! that goes on. Get over yourselves you worthless pieces of %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!.
Those famous Aussie manners! :lol:
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Those famous Aussie manners! :lol:
you need to watch "Dash Cam Owners Australia" on Facebook. You will get "Aussie Manners" and then some :)
Like Motorbike riders who are weaving in and out of traffic and wonder why a car changes lanes without seeing him..., Pulls over and the driver comes to check on him, so what does the rider say "WTF Dumb C......".
Worth a giggle and you learn plenty of Aussie slang. Anyway we return you to regular advertised bitching about kickstarter's :)
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Jesus %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!ing Christ guys. Get over yourselves. It a wonder anyone does anything Amiga related with the bull%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@! that goes on. Get over yourselves you worthless pieces of %&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!%&$#?@!.
+1
BTW I'm from f*!%€ng finland and feel the same. Fully sustaining aussie manners. ;)
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@arttu80
I'm in agreement (although the language is a bit fruity ;-)). Give Bagnall a break. It's not as if he isn't a proven writer. I love On the Edge: The Spectacular Rise and Fall of Commodore and although it was been proven to be factually inaccurate in places it's only because of Brian's continued research that we are even aware that this 2006 book had some blind spots! It's not as if there is any one else in the computer press that actually knows what happened at Commodore (or seems to care these days). This needs to be catalogued for prosperity and for when people decide to stop blowing smoke rings up Apple's bottom! Split the book, reassess the printing costs and send us the bill for the difference if need be on the second kickstarter. Brian better make the stretch goal presents flipping amazing though ;-)
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While I'm not surprised that this Kickstarter hasn't gone as presented, I think having more books is a good thing. Commodore and their computers have been largely ignored by the mainstream press when it comes to outlining the history of personal computers. So I think supporting someone who is willing to write about Commodore only helps us in the end.
I think when dealing with Kickstarter projects (and other similar ventures) you have to assume that the timeline will be wrong and just be happy the promised product actually ships.
Brian has proven he can deliver on writing a book even it is seems to be at a glacial pace.
Look at it this way, it could be worse, we could be in the Atari camp. Nobody seems to be willing to write or film the history of their computer line (which is sad, I would like to know more).
-P
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@Pentad
Look at it this way, it could be worse, we could be in the Atari camp. Nobody seems to be willing to write or film the history of their computer line (which is sad, I would like to know more).
There is lots of cross over between Atari/Commodore. Firstly, from the fact that Jack Tramiel headed up the Atari ST development after being kicked out of C=. Secondly, Jay Miner designed the Atari 400 and 800 before the Lorraine/Amiga. There is no Amiga story without passing reference to these machines. As to the details of Atari development outside of the games/coin up machines I couldn't really care less. The story of the development of Star Raiders for the 400/800 would be more interesting as the Amiga 1000 was Jay Miner's crowning achievement not Atari chips/consoles. Also, the Atari ST (and I speak as an ex-owner) was an Amiga 500 without the amazing custom chips but with MIDI built in. Now again, unless you want the story of White Town - 'Your Woman' and Atari STs being used in music production I'm not sure the rest of the story is worth telling.
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Those famous Aussie manners! :lol:
You really need to give this guy a watch. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBKXG4LTaEE
Warning: NSFW commentary. :lol:
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Jesus don't mention Atari to Bagnell, he will extend the book to include that bloody story too....
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You really need to give this guy a watch. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBKXG4LTaEE
Warning: NSFW commentary. :lol:
I watched this and then the one with the cat stuck in the pipe. Why are bad things so bloody funny? :kitty:
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@Pentad
There is lots of cross over between Atari/Commodore. Firstly, from the fact that Jack Tramiel headed up the Atari ST development after being kicked out of C=. Secondly, Jay Miner designed the Atari 400 and 800 before the Lorraine/Amiga. There is no Amiga story without passing reference to these machines. As to the details of Atari development outside of the games/coin up machines I couldn't really care less. The story of the development of Star Raiders for the 400/800 would be more interesting as the Amiga 1000 was Jay Miner's crowning achievement not Atari chips/consoles. Also, the Atari ST (and I speak as an ex-owner) was an Amiga 500 without the amazing custom chips but with MIDI built in. Now again, unless you want the story of White Town - 'Your Woman' and Atari STs being used in music production I'm not sure the rest of the story is worth telling.
I’m sorry but I think that is very short sighted of you. I think there is much more to the Atari story than has been told and I’m sure the passionate fans in the Atari community would love to have the same flood of books, videos, and documentaries that Commodore fans have enjoyed these past few years.
I have found the books, videos, and documentaries to be a wealth of interest and information. It dispelled decades of rumors and conjecture with facts and timelines. Yet, it went more than that for I think many fans. It gave a sense of the day to day operations at Commodore, put faces to projects and transformed simple names to real people. You understood some of the decisions and began to feel the frustration the employees felt at Commodore.
Atari was an important part of the personal computer revolution (just as Commodore was) but both have been largely ignored by the main stream press. These companies put a lot of computers in the hands of people who went on to help define technology today. Telling their story is important for not just the history of the personal computer but for people.
I think it is a shame that most of the Atari history revolves around the 2600. Racing the Beam, Business is fun, and Once upon Atari all gave great insight into early Atari but I think there are many more stories to share. I have even asked Chris Crawford to write about his experiences at Atari and the computer gaming business in general.
Lastly, many of the people who worked at these companies are no longer with us and those who did are getting older. I would hate to see people in the future read a paragraph like yours and assume it is accurate reflection of history.
-P
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I want my money back WITH INTEREST!! Enough BS.
END OF LINE
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I want my money back WITH INTEREST!! Enough BS.
END OF LINE
That's not how the world works. When you back a project, you are well aware that you risk losing that money.
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Reduce the spacing in between the lines and/or reduce the font size. He could also do a search on "that", "which" and remove them as they are often not required. He could also reduce the number of pages required by replacing Commodore with just the chicken head symbol and instead of writing Amiga it could be shortened to Miga, even.
Problem solved. He found http://transl8it.com/
"Hello! Im Brian Bagnall & I wnt 2 teL U d story of Commodore durN d Amiga years. Commodore produced my favorite computers n d eighties & 4 years I waited 4 SOME1 2 wrte a buk bout thOs NcreDbL tImz. Strangely, it seemed lIk publishers wer only intRStd n talkin bout Apple, Microsoft & IBM. Its tym 2 GIV d Commodore Amiga som crdz az d 1st commercially sucSful multimedia cmptr.
tAk a journey frm Amiga's beginnings n 1982 2 wen Commodore filed 4 bankruptcy n 1994. Dozens of brilliant & motivated engineers produced a cmptr w graphics, swNd & multitasking capabilities years ahed of apL & IBM. A lot hapnd n dat decade, & DIS buk wiL descriB 2 U d most relevant parts n a definitive history of d Amiga story & Commodores fInL descent.
Prior 2 undertaking DIS project, Commodores trajectory az a co. wz a huge mystery. writiN DIS buk wiL aLow me 2 sleuth out wot happened, relive thOs tImz alongside thOs hu wer there, & share d rslts w fellow travelers lIk U. dat prospect aloN iz incredibly XcitN."
Firstly, from the fact that Jack Tramiel headed up the Atari ST development after being kicked out of C=.
Jack resigned https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfJzMAyDh_I&feature=youtu.be&t=3382
https://youtu.be/zfJzMAyDh_I?t=4044.
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I dig it: "C=: Ami yrs txt Ed." and it could be sent to us via SMS.
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@Pentad
Atari fans might like a book about Atari home computers but the reality is they are dull compared to the GAMES Atari produced. Atari and the iconic logo are remenbered because of the coin ups and the games produced. 4-player Gauntlet 2 cabinets etc. Commodore hardly produced any worthwhile software apart from Workbench and DiskSalv! That is the reality. Nolan Bushnell lived and breathed GAMES and that's what should be remembered.
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I watched that Atari Game Over documentary about the desert dig for the cartridges and there was a segment at the start about Atari that was pretty interesting. It sounded like a non-stop drink/drug party so a book regarding the experiences of people working there might actually be pretty entertaining.
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It sounded like a non-stop drink/drug party so a book regarding the experiences of people working there might actually be pretty entertaining.
Except that everything everyone will remember is a blur, or just blacked out :) I've seen those movies.
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@Thread
The final decision is...
...the book is being split! Let's all wish Brian the best as he completes these two books and around 1000 pages of Amiga history!
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What a croc of excrement! I get half the book I paid for years later than promised. I paid for the Commodore The Amiga years not from year x to year y.
Bagnal is a flacid penis.
Re-edited for profanity and threatening lanquage.
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Jesus don't mention Atari to Bagnell, he will extend the book to include that bloody story too....
In a way, Atari and the ST are involved.
Considering who pushed Atari to develop the ST, and who was behind the development of the Lorraine chipset (and where he came from).
Its a weird, convoluted part of the evolution of the platform (and 68K machines in general).
And, IF we wanted to thoroughly throw Brian off track, we could mention the Australian OS-9 port, alternative 68K systems (outside of the Mac), etc... :roflmao:
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@BuBBoB (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=18323)
So ask for your money back and buy 'Amiga: The Future was Here' instead! Sheesh it's just a book it's not as if you lost £1000 investing in Amiga Inc. or something ;-)
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@thread
guys -- i know many of you are disappointed and upset over the never-ending saga of this book, but please remember your language use. and we can't have any posts that suggest a physical threat, no matter how slight. just a heads up.
-- eliyahu
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Zack needed a little help finishing up his documentary. Has anyone contacted Bagnall to offer some assistance?
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He's asked the backers for help with the proof reading and to spot any instances of repetition but the hard editing decisions are his to make. I can't see how that can be sped up. He's got 99% of the content nailed down I think it just needs to fit into two books, have the correct layout and make sure it reads right i.e. the right emphasis and the best stories.
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Zack needed a little help finishing up his documentary. Has anyone contacted Bagnall to offer some assistance?
Omg. I died. :laughing::laughing:
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Atari was an important part of the personal computer revolution (just as Commodore was) but both have been largely ignored by the main stream press. These companies put a lot of computers in the hands of people who went on to help define technology today. Telling their story is important for not just the history of the personal computer but for people.
Atari were too big and corporate & not really "rockstar" types. Bil Herd and Dave Haynie are responsible for most of the commodore stories. If you are a reporter, you'll go after the people who are easy to find and want to talk.
It was only really at the Amiga 30th anniversary when people and hardware came out of the woodwork. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXKcMFoRsN4, more and more people coming forward is a huge problem for Brian.
Apple have done ok https://www.folklore.org/, but I'm sure there are plenty of other stories from there.
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@LoadWB (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=4168) & Oldsmobile_Mike (http://www.amiga.org/forums/member.php?u=1043)
Hilarious! And yet it's not really a comparison as Brian Bagnall has already delivered good books and is a reputable author. Viva Amiga is a delayed documentary of questionable quality compared to Bedrooms to Billions: The Amiga Years produced by Zach Weddington!! Who is Zach Weddington you ask?
Ref: http://www.generationamiga.com/2016/12/28/interview-with-zach-weddington/
Zach Weddington has a well-established background as a professional video maker. VIVA Amiga is his first documentary film...
There lies the problem.... he was an unproven documentary creator. Brian is a proven author who can deliver a quality product.
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Atari were too big and corporate & not really "rockstar" types. Bil Herd and Dave Haynie are responsible for most of the commodore stories. If you are a reporter, you'll go after the people who are easy to find and want to talk.
It was only really at the Amiga 30th anniversary when people and hardware came out of the woodwork. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXKcMFoRsN4, more and more people coming forward is a huge problem for Brian.
Apple have done ok https://www.folklore.org/, but I'm sure there are plenty of other stories from there.
"Bil Herd and Dave Haynie" as "rockstar(s)".
OMFG! That IS hilarious. And yet you want to dismiss Atari, which is where the primary designer for the Amiga originally worked.
Frankly, I'm SO damned tired of hearing about these two.
Herd, the guy that grafted a Z-80 to the C64, and gave birth to the C128.
And Haynie, the "I did it single handedly (even if most of it never saw the light of day)", guy.
YOUR heroes, not mine.
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Well, at least I was hooked off the stage :D
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Well, at least I was hooked off the stage :D
(https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/f/f5/PlayAlong-Hook.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/209?cb=20151009234938)
Wacka wacka!
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"Bil Herd and Dave Haynie" as "rockstar(s)".
OMFG! That IS hilarious. And yet you want to dismiss Atari, which is where the primary designer for the Amiga originally worked.
Frankly, I'm SO damned tired of hearing about these two.
Herd, the guy that grafted a Z-80 to the C64, and gave birth to the C128.
And Haynie, the "I did it single handedly (even if most of it never saw the light of day)", guy.
YOUR heroes, not mine.
Your anger made you miss the point of my post entirely.
Also, I didn't dismiss Atari. Jay Miner worked at many companies before starting Amiga. Bringing all of silicon valley into the book would be unpractical.
Jay gets a lot of credit, but the Atari VCS and Atari 8 bit were designed by Cyan engineering. The Amiga was mostly designed by people that Jay hired.
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Many apologies, I didn't realise I had broken the site rules. I have re-editied my post to remove profanity and threatening lanquage.
"What a croc of excrement! I get half the book I paid for years later than promised. I paid for the Commodore The Amiga years not from year x to year y.
Bagnal is a schmuck. "
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"What a croc of excrement! I get half the book I paid for years later than promised. I paid for the Commodore The Amiga years not from year x to year y.
Bagnal is a schmuck. "
AFAICT You're getting all the years, it's just only some of them are going to be printed and the rest will be an ebook & the printed book will have more pages than you paid for.
I don't get why anyone is angry at all. You're blaming Brians because he has found more to write about. It's like you want him to not write the book that you paid him to do.
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AFAICT You're getting all the years, it's just only some of them are going to be printed and the rest will be an ebook & the printed book will have more pages than you paid for.
I don't get why anyone is angry at all. You're blaming Brians because he has found more to write about. It's like you want him to not write the book that you paid him to do.
Amazon have resurrected the book.....
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/0994031025/ref=em_si_text
"This title will be released on June 1, 2017.
Pre-order now."
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Should be called Commodore: Half of the Amiga Years.... the rest is a DLC
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Should be called Commodore: Half of the Amiga Years.... the rest is a DLC
It's double the number of pages than originally promised. Brian should have made sure that only enough history happened to fill 600 pages.
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Well let Brian say this in his own words:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1462758959/commodore-the-amiga-years-book/posts/1813447
"Just now, at 11:51 pm, I finished the last of the actual writing for Commodore: The Amiga Years. In other words, there is now a complete book that can be read from start (1982) to end (1994) telling the complete Commodore-Amiga story." and
"The next milestone is a release of the full Kickstarter edition of this book--probably in the 850 to 900 page range...."
As a higher tier backer I just wanted one book to tell the story of Commodore: The Amiga Years. Looks like he finished it, was going to be available to Kickstarters as a book in the 850-900 range, but instead decided to profit further by releasing the book in two parts.
Once again in Brian's words https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1462758959/commodore-the-amiga-years-book/posts/1888987
"The Amiga Years is currently at 567 pages after the split, and will have to be reduced to a little over 500 pages due to front material, table of contents, index and other things. Ill need to cut around 1-2 pages per chapter in order to make that goal."
So he finished the complete story (in his words) in 850 to 900 words, then decided to split the book in two (at around 500 pages each) so he could sell the other half to us
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I have gone from being really excited about this project to openly hating Bagnell and all he stands for. All it has taken is several years of waiting and many broken promises. I have become so stressed out over this now that I wish I had never heard of The Amiga Years or Bagnell. What pleasure is left now, half the book I paid for with the promise of the complete story if I pay more? Will the final part ever be completed even? Do I still want to trust this man, at best he has mislead us, at worst he has openly lied about so much. If I could get my money back I would but I have to accept that is a lost cause.
I say don't trust Bagnell any longer, he is a liar who cannot be trusted. Assume the worst and hope for the best. If the books are finished within several years I will be pleasently suprised.
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@BuBBob
It's just a book :-)
Cheer up at least we know he's written books in the past! Viva Amiga was the guys first documentary ... ever!!!
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Openly hating the guy?? Holy cow... did he put babies on spikes? I'd say this transgression of his is minor in comparison to the many failed projects on KS. At least he's trying to produce something.
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By the way, I am still waiting for my "Commodore - The Amiga years" book or as it is now to be named "Commodore - Half of the Amiga years" from Brian !*##*!! Bagnall. The man is a suppurating turd of the highest order :(
Note: My last post was in May so I have been patient.
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...I have been patient.
And acting like a petulant child.
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I have become so stressed out over this
[snip]
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/bd/bd2b9f6eda5629549806b012d143ea573dfbc5045b24e4643fe6d0d4ed1e9c9e.jpg)
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[snip]
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/bd/bd2b9f6eda5629549806b012d143ea573dfbc5045b24e4643fe6d0d4ed1e9c9e.jpg)
And it's Amiga stuff - of course it's going to be late and change a billion times before it's released. :)