Amiga.org
Amiga computer related discussion => General chat about Amiga topics => Topic started by: Thelgord on April 29, 2017, 03:04:22 PM
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Hello all. I'll be honest, I haven't touched an Amiga since the 90's. When the name went down, I figured it was done for and switched to Mac. I am very glad to see I was wrong. I didn't even know you could get a new Amiga until a few weeks ago.
A little about me. I actually use windows machines at the office, I am an instructor for the U. S. Army, so my personal computing needs are fairly modest. I am also thinking of getting an Amiga, I really do miss my A500. I am also a writer. So my needs are:
1) Working with documents. I am not expecting Adobe Pro or anything, but a PDF viewer would be nice. Also word processor software that is at least mostly comparable with modern documents. Maybe google docs or Libre Office or even Pages via iCloud web site. I am just not sure what is out there, but I am try to find out.
2) Network access. I need to be able to access share drives. Cloud drives would be great but not necessary. Also network printers would be a plus, but I understand there is going to be driver limitations.
3) Any other advice would be most appreciated.
Basically I am looking to setup a writing work station/office that is as distraction free as I can make it. If I can find software that is compatible with even just RTF files I can use my iOS devices to convert the final versions. I think going back to an Amiga will go a long way toward that. Thanks again for any advice.
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Me too. I had a couple of Amigas and sold everything about 7 years ago. It's exciting to see new hardware development. I'll probably shop around for an A1200 or big box and get back in the game. Once an Amiga-Head, always an Amiga-Head! :lol::laugh1:
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Welcome back! You've got a bunch of options for getting back into Amigas these days:
1. A vintage machine 500, 1200, 3000, etc)
2. Emulation with WinUAE or FS-UAE
3. An AmigaOS4 machine like the X1000, X5000, or SAM boards
4. MorphOS, a ground-up rebuild of AmigaOS for most PPC Mac hardware
5. AROS, an open-source ground up rebuild of AmigaOS for x86 hardware and a few others
6. An FPGA hardware emulation board. These are mostly intended for games at the moment.
MorphOS and AROS probably have the best web browser situation on the Amiga-like platforms these days, but progress is being made for the vintage machines and OS4 as well.
For word processing, there are the old classics Wordworth and Final Writer. OS4 has a program called CinnamonWriter and there's something available on MorphOS, the name of which escapes me.
For network drives, there's smbfs for Windows-style SMB shares. A Dropbox handler is in development but I haven't tested it yet.
Printing is going to be tough. HP JetDirect printing works if you have a corresponding printer driver. Your safest bet will be something that supports PostScript. The network printer interfaces might support a few other protocols as well, but I'm not certain.
Don't be afraid to ask questions - the gang here will help you get going!
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If you still have any PowerPC Mac hardware lying around you could try out MorphOS for free and try out Cinnamon writer which offer some compatibility with the outside world.
Libre Office is being ported to OS4 but you'd need more reasons than an office package to justify shelling out the price of hardware. Emulation through UAE and the 30 Euro price tag for the OS might serve reasonably cheap evaluation of OS4.
One of the members of these forums, Timothy Deters AKA Terminills, has the rights to Softwood's products and work is currently in progress on updating Final Writer. I think compatibility with the outside world is on the cards and ports are planned for AROS, OS4, MorphOS and 68K.
AROS is free to try if you have a suitable X86 system handy.
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Thanks for all of the info, I know have a lot of reading to do before I jump in. Budget is of course important, but I am setting aside money for the buy in. That of course assumes I can buy in.
If I do this, I will be all retro Amiga. I love the newer machines, but the cost is just far too high. I can get a new iMac for around the same price and I am not looking to spend a lot of money. Certainly not that much anyway.
So I have been reading, and reading, and reading. Then I read some more. I think I have settled on Word Perfect 4.1 for the software needs. I can save in WP format, then use Libre Office on my Mac to change the document format for submission requirements. Or I could use this site: http://www.zamzar.com/convert/wpd-to-doc/ (Not really sure how well it works as I have never used it)
For printing, I have decided that the few times I do need to print I will transfer the document to my Mac then print from there. Assuming of course I can open the file correctly.
Since I am looking to setup a writing station, I don't need a lot, but would like a machine with a HD (or a flash drive as this seems to be a popular mod, and floppies go bad). I would really like a full keyboard, so I am thinking A500, A2000, A3000 or A1200. Though I think the A1200 may be a bit hard to find in good shape.
I need a recommendation for a machine, a classic machine. As in, I am not sure about the difference in the WorkBench version numbers. I had an A1000, then an A500 so I am not familiar with anything beyond that. WB 2.1 (I think) was the last one I worked with. WB 2 seems to be widely supported, WB3 I am not so sure about, and from I can gather, a lot software for WB4 is either stalled, incomplete, or abandonware even if it is more "modern".
Just so you guys get where I am coming from, let me explain my "writing style". I have a room, well, large hallway closet actually, that I do all of my writing work in. When I am "in the zone" I don't want distractions. I just don't. Not even from my wife. Well, unless the house is on fire, maybe ...
I normally use my Mac Laptop that is basically set in airplane mode. No Wifi, Ethernet, or BlueTooth turned on. Which works ... most of the time anyway. Until I need to access a shared folder or something else that is not locally stored on the laptop. I try to plan for everything I think I might need, but there is always that one thing. Anyway, once I connect to the network, I am connected. All of my notifications from twitter and FaceBook start going off, my iMessage lights up like a christmas tree, emails start to come in, it's a mess. I am just OCD enough that work basically stops until all of notifications are cleared out, email cleaned up, etc. I'm crazy I know, but it is just how I am.
I have tried a DOS machine, which was horrible really, but the concept was good. The great thing about the Amiga is it just good enough to get online, or at least the local network, but just "not mac enough" to hammer me with sending me a bunch of notifications. If I could access my local share drive, which it looks like I will be able to, I would be in heaven.
Honestly, I would love to have another A500 (it really was a great little machine for its day). Would that be enough to run Wordperfect? Or even let me tryout some other software packages for writing? Or should I get something with WB3?
Ok, that turned out way longer than I had anticipated. Sorry about that, there is just so much I either don't know or have forgotten.
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...For word processing, there are the old classics Wordworth and Final Writer. OS4 has a program called CinnamonWriter and there's something available on MorphOS, the name of which escapes me...
Um...Cinnamon Writer (since Claus supports all 3 NG OS'). And the classic word processors usually work on PPC NG platforms as well.
I think we've got PDF viewers (but I haven't used them), and Google Docs ought to work.
Our web browser does need some work to update it.
But that will get done, in time. Two weeks, maybe? :lol:
Instead of looking around for an A500, I'd wait until Jens releases the new A1200 boards (or consider an fpga machine).
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Thanks for the info on Cinnamon Writer. Unfortunately it requires OS4, and I just can't justify the cost (nearly a grand) to get a machine that can run it. Maybe in the future, but not at this point. If I wanted to make it easy I would get a linux machine and be done with it, but honestly, I really don't like the look and feel of Linux. Personal preference I guess you could say.
I am honestly looking to spend around $200 (maybe more, but not much more) on this ... I guess I will call it a project. In total. For $1000 I could look into a lot of other options. The PDF viewer, or lack of one, isn't a deal breaker, just a nice to have. I don't really need a web browser. Again, nice to have, but not needed.
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However, $200 will probably end up being too low. Still, I would like to keep the cost down as much as I can.
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Thanks for the info on Cinnamon Writer. Unfortunately it requires OS4, and I just can't justify the cost (nearly a grand) to get a machine that can run it. Maybe in the future, but not at this point. If I wanted to make it easy I would get a linux machine and be done with it, but honestly, I really don't like the look and feel of Linux. Personal preference I guess you could say.
I am honestly looking to spend around $200 (maybe more, but not much more) on this ... I guess I will call it a project. In total. For $1000 I could look into a lot of other options. The PDF viewer, or lack of one, isn't a deal breaker, just a nice to have. I don't really need a web browser. Again, nice to have, but not needed.
Cinnamon Writer is available for MorphOS too.
You can get a cheap MacMini G4 1.5Ghz from the Ebay link below.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/262936104622
MorphOS is free to download and try. It slows down after 30 minutes and requires a reboot. You can get a keyfile which removes this restriction for 79 Euro. That's well below your $200 budget.
For an Amiga 500 system I'd look at getting an ACA500 Plus card from Individual computers. It costs 129.96 Euro and is excellent value for money since you get a 14Mhz 68000 which can be overclocked to upto 42Mhz, 8MB fast RAM, 8MB Flash, 2 CF slots. You also get a lot of software built pre-installed on the flash consisting of Kickstart 1.2, 1.3 and 3.1 ROMs, OS3.1 disk set and Action Replay.
https://icomp.de/shop-icomp/en/produkt-details/product/ACA500plus.html
An A500+ is probably the best A500 you can get since it comes with 1MB chipmem and can be expanded the 2MB chip, is also comes with a Kickstart 2.04 ROM to add to the ROMs that come with the ACA card. Make sure it is working properly and as soon as you get it remove the battery since these are prone to leaking, and clean up anything that may have leaked onto the board.
Normal A500s don't have a clock onboard so there's no leaky battery to worry about if you go for one of those models.
An 500 and ACA card will take you a fair amount over $200 unless you get really lucky but it's the cheapest option if you want more than just a floppy based system with a limited amount of RAM.
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I know nothing of MorphOS. More reading to do! LOL! There is so much to read ...
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Welcome back!
My advice is find out what is cheap or available on craigslist in your area. Let's face it if you could get an Amiga 1200/3000/4000 for a good price locally that is probably your best bet. However that may not be a possibility.
Since you live in North America you will notice that the Amiga's above are actually not all that common. We get allot more big box Amiga's like the 2000 and quite a bit Amiga 500s
The good news is that the almost any Amiga is expandable now thanks to some really awesome expansion cards produced by hobbyists.
For the Amiga 500 I agree that the ACA 500+ is your best bet. However there are some really good and cheaper products at kipper2k.com which will allow you to expand the memory and install a Flash hard drive.
For the Amiga 2000/3000/4000 there is the SCSII2SD device that allows you to hook up an SD card to your SCSII port in the big box Amigas.
To copy your files to and from Amigas there is an awesome free product called Amiga Explorer
https://www.amigaforever.com/ae/
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I know nothing of MorphOS. More reading to do! LOL! There is so much to read ...
Here's my brief introduction (a 5 minute read) to MorphOS for users with an Amiga background: http://via.i-networx.de/wim.htm
The demo of MorphOS is free, the machines start very cheap, my suggestion is a Mac mini G4 (silent upgrade 1.5GHz) or Powerbook G4 1.67GHz (5.6 or 5.8). Great value for the money.
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So I have been reading, a lot ...
There are so many options. MorphOS, AmigaOS4, AROS, classic hardware, powermacs, emulators (I even found a distro for Rasberi Pi) , FGPA boards, AmigaOne (really expensive) ...
This is going to take time to sort out as I would really like to do this once, rather than going through 40 options that just don't quite work.
I really appreciate all the input. You have given me a lot read, and a lot to think about.
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Yeah, right off the bat, and well within your price range, a cheap Mac G4 or G5 running the demo of MorphOS and UAE on a PC (if you own one) will give you an idea of what you can do easily with legacy and NG.
Should Tabor become available, OS4's entry cost will drop, and right now a dirt cheap PowerMac G5 and a copy of MorphOS licensed is very economical.
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If you don't want to spend much then AROS might be your best option. Its free/open source and will run nicely on even an old dumped PC. Or alternatively an 'el cheapo new PC. For just a few hundred dollars you can pick up a system 10 times as powerful as the 10x more expensive x5000. Cinnamon Writer is available as are PDF viewers. Additionally it has the best browser for Amiga-oid systems which will give you access to the world of online apps (based on WebKit).
Second to that a Raspberry Pi, as you mentioned, has a few Amiga based distros. I have an rpi3 running Amibian and it does a good job of pretending to be an Amiga.
MorphOS, as mentioned is also somewhat affordable and will run on old ppc Macs.
While my personal preference is AROS, by the sounds of things an RPI and Amibian might be the option for you. AROS and MorphOS are very AmigaOS like, but Amibian can run any version of AmigaOS from 1.x through 3.x and is compatible with all Amiga software, and emulates all types of classic Amiga hardware.
There's versions of UAE for AROS and MorphOS, but Amibian does a nice job of hiding the fact its using an emulator.
In regards to word processing I'd recommend something like Final Writer or Wordsworth over WP4.1.
As for PDF viewers for classic Amigas, yes there's APDF, but it uses mui, ergo OS3.x is required. PDF files have higher requirements than a basic Amiga can handle as well.
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Spend the money and get a NEW X5000. (with usb, ethernet, sata)
No bad caps, no shot power supplies, 20 to 30 year old problems!!!
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Thanks for all of the info, I know have a lot of reading to do before I jump in. Budget is of course important, but I am setting aside money for the buy in. That of course assumes I can buy in.
If I do this, I will be all retro Amiga. I love the newer machines, but the cost is just far too high. I can get a new iMac for around the same price and I am not looking to spend a lot of money. Certainly not that much anyway.
So I have been reading, and reading, and reading. Then I read some more. I think I have settled on Word Perfect 4.1 for the software needs. I can save in WP format, then use Libre Office on my Mac to change the document format for submission requirements. Or I could use this site: http://www.zamzar.com/convert/wpd-to-doc/ (Not really sure how well it works as I have never used it)
For printing, I have decided that the few times I do need to print I will transfer the document to my Mac then print from there. Assuming of course I can open the file correctly.
Since I am looking to setup a writing station, I don't need a lot, but would like a machine with a HD (or a flash drive as this seems to be a popular mod, and floppies go bad). I would really like a full keyboard, so I am thinking A500, A2000, A3000 or A1200. Though I think the A1200 may be a bit hard to find in good shape.
I need a recommendation for a machine, a classic machine. As in, I am not sure about the difference in the WorkBench version numbers. I had an A1000, then an A500 so I am not familiar with anything beyond that. WB 2.1 (I think) was the last one I worked with. WB 2 seems to be widely supported, WB3 I am not so sure about, and from I can gather, a lot software for WB4 is either stalled, incomplete, or abandonware even if it is more "modern".
Just so you guys get where I am coming from, let me explain my "writing style". I have a room, well, large hallway closet actually, that I do all of my writing work in. When I am "in the zone" I don't want distractions. I just don't. Not even from my wife. Well, unless the house is on fire, maybe ...
I normally use my Mac Laptop that is basically set in airplane mode. No Wifi, Ethernet, or BlueTooth turned on. Which works ... most of the time anyway. Until I need to access a shared folder or something else that is not locally stored on the laptop. I try to plan for everything I think I might need, but there is always that one thing. Anyway, once I connect to the network, I am connected. All of my notifications from twitter and FaceBook start going off, my iMessage lights up like a christmas tree, emails start to come in, it's a mess. I am just OCD enough that work basically stops until all of notifications are cleared out, email cleaned up, etc. I'm crazy I know, but it is just how I am.
I have tried a DOS machine, which was horrible really, but the concept was good. The great thing about the Amiga is it just good enough to get online, or at least the local network, but just "not mac enough" to hammer me with sending me a bunch of notifications. If I could access my local share drive, which it looks like I will be able to, I would be in heaven.
Honestly, I would love to have another A500 (it really was a great little machine for its day). Would that be enough to run Wordperfect? Or even let me tryout some other software packages for writing? Or should I get something with WB3?
Ok, that turned out way longer than I had anticipated. Sorry about that, there is just so much I either don't know or have forgotten.
Can't you just create another profile on your computer that isn't linked to all your accounts that seem to be giving you a headache. Create a writing alias and then create privileges so you can access printers, folders etc. I have more Amigas than probably anyone, seriously, and I love them to death, but to get them to jump through hoops to do what say this Win7 machine can do seems pretty pointless. That is why I sit here writing all my words on a Win7 machine and then go have fun with my Amigas.
Not to put a damper on your desire but I'd keep your laptop as the cheapest option and then get an Amiga 1200 to have some fun and forget trying to get it to jump through hoops. Retro is retro at the end of the day and its hard enough just keeping the kit alive. Others will disagree.
You can get some great free writing packages for the Amiga. Loads appeared on cover disks and they come up on the Bay for pennies. Not sure if WP was ported to the Amiga... probably never noticed it. I use just a text editor for writing, even on this Win7 machine I use Notepad. On the Amiga there was Wordworth but that requires a serial number. I'm sure someone can help on that front. The A500 isn't bad but lacks simple expansion for say an accelerator or hard drive. Easier on a 1200. Don't get me wrong I love my 500s, but by choice I use the 1200. There is also the monitor you have to think of etc so it does start to build. You can scart to a flat screen I guess.
Anyway have fun.
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You probably need to decide if you want to go Classic or new hardware direction.
Check system requirements for available software on http://aminet.net
You will need something with a 020 or better. so looking at a1200, a3000, a4000
Probably easiest to get a a1200 but you would want to then purchase a good accelerator. (this can cost same amount or more than the computer itself but worth it if your a dedicated fan aka nuts (: )
If more serious about performing work, then might be better to look at new generation hardware X1000 (not yet released budget hardware) or x5000
You may want to test out AmigaOS under emulation like WinUAE first to get a taste for what you are getting yourself into. Actually this would be a cheapest option, just setup a machine for emulation.
Theres a few youtube videos around about using Amiga today for work.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=using+amiga+today&source=lnms&tbm=vid&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwimhvHRyM3TAhWBupQKHfvJCx8Q_AUICigB&biw=1745&bih=828
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Spend the money and get a NEW X5000. (with usb, ethernet, sata)
No bad caps, no shot power supplies, 20 to 30 year old problems!!!
Also about 15 times as much money as he said he wants to spend.
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One other piece of advice, and this may be clear already..... take most advice with a grain of salt.
Take the neutral information and use it for research, but be aware a lot of people will go into "recruitment mode" whenever a new (or returning) person arrives on the scene, disregarding what someone says their interests/needs are and instead trying to sell them on their preference (like the fact you've said a few times that you don't want to spend a lot yet people are still trying to sell you on systems costing thousands of dollars. :))
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you don't want to spend a lot yet people are still trying to sell you on systems costing thousands of dollars
Amiga is not a cheap hobby. Thank the hoarders who've snapped up nearly all of the available remaining systems, thus raising the price for returning folks like yourself. :(
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There's affordable options though. Some very expensive ones, but its more than possible to join the frey on a budget.
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It's a false eco-money..
The so called hoaders have 20 to 30 machines but got them because they were willing to pay for or store them.
People complain about the cost of new systems but Classic Amigas cost just as much when new. I have my reciepts.
The cost of a used system can cost as much and the parts everyone wants can sell
for much more then when those parts were new (060, ppc, PicassoIV, etc)
Even buying newer working parts like ethernet cards or usb cards, adds expense.
Don't even start me on the monitors and INdivision.
At Amiwest AmigaDave talked me to trying MorphOS, he even gave me a cd. I had an mac g4 that was compatible.
But it wasn't. I had to buy a used Radeon card. Then the power supply died. Don't forget used Macs for MorphOS
even if you are lucky to get a "great/free" deal are also 20 years old and will need re-caping etc.
AROS is cheap only when you don't factor in you have to have a intel pc and doesn't really work on the cheaper pcs.
People come back looking for cheap only to find no such thing (see ebay final prices) If you get a deal...
Watch for those battery issues and don't forget those caps or a new mouse because the old one is shot!
You can get lucky at the right time and with the right person. I sold a nice 4000D at AmiWest for $100.
Had I posted it ebay and run an auction, it would have sold for several hundreds.
Because amiga has become a "hobby", it's not cheap.
A new AmigaOne X5000 has none of those age issues or auctions prices.
You can pick cheaper new parts if you need. But at least it new.
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That's absolute complete and utter nonsense.
I've had AROS running on systems from amd k62's, to pentium3s, athlonxp's, athlon64, athlon64x2, Intel atoms, Intel core2duo, and phenom2, Intel i5s, and now Intel i7.
The i5 system cost me $100aud.
Additionally the hilarious justification that "the original amigas cost just as much new" is nothing more than delusional self justification. Back then ram was very expensive, so were hard drives, so were monitors, etc, etc.
The pricing benchmark has changed. These days you can pick up a machine 10x as powerful as an x5000 for 1/10th of the price.
Nice bit of creative writing there, but seriously why bother? Both you and others know its mostly crap. Never understood why people make up things when they must know others know the truth.
Is it self justification?
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That's absolute complete and utter nonsense.
I've had AROS running on systems from amd k62's, to pentium3s, athlonxp's, athlon64, athlon64x2, Intel atoms, Intel core2duo, and phenom2, Intel i5s, and now Intel i7.
The i5 system cost me $100aud.
Additionally the hilarious justification that "the original amigas cost just as much new" is nothing more than delusional self justification. Back then ram was very expensive, so were hard drives, so were monitors, etc, etc.
The pricing benchmark has changed. These days you can pick up a machine 10x as powerful as an x5000 for 1/10th of the price.
Nice bit of creative writing there, but seriously why bother? Both you and others know its mostly crap. Never understood why people make up things when they must know others know the truth.
Is it self justification?
Near as I can tell...if you can afford all those systems for testing...you've spent too much yourself. A little ironic. Don't you think?
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I'm not sure you understand the word "Ironic". :)
Anyway, let it go. We've both said our bit. No need to derail the thread.
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I'm not sure you understand the word "Ironic". :)
Anyway, let it go. We've both said our bit. No need to derail the thread.
The only ironic thing here is you defending AROS because it's cheap.
"Unfortunately only you see can't how transparent and petty it makes you look"
The OP wants to spend $200 but it ain't gonna happen! Unless he's really lucky!
BTW, even the MorphOS guys are going to NEW...
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OK, clearly you don't understand the definition of "ironic". No harm in that, but perhaps stop using words if you're going to misuse them?
Also, I'm not particularly defending anything but the truth. Your post is so full on nonsense that I decided to comment.
And yes, its entirely possible to spend under $200. There's multiple options.
Seriously though, let it go. No-one is interested in reading arguments.
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OK, clearly you don't understand the definition of "ironic". No harm in that, but perhaps stop using words if you're going to misuse them?
Also, I'm not particularly defending anything but the truth. Your post is so full on nonsense that I decided to comment.
And yes, its entirely possible to spend under $200. There's multiple options.
Seriously though, let it go. No-one is interested in reading arguments.
My post is the truth.
A new Amiga is better then all the old hardware which is dying!
A new pc for AROS is part of the cost.
I spent the weekend helping 4 old amigas to help because of cost for my fellow amigans.
Just because you think it overpriced is why you commented.
Another post about your "facts"! Will only once again prove it's a pot shot!
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The only ironic thing here is you defending AROS because it's cheap.
"Unfortunately only you see can't how transparent and petty it makes you look"
The OP wants to spend $200 but it ain't gonna happen! Unless he's really lucky!
BTW, even the MorphOS guys are going to NEW...
Well...I am, but I can't say its the best decision for all.
After all, when you dispense with the hype, a G5 PowerMac is faster (it CAN display HD video without dropping frames), has higher memory bandwidth (even with older memory), and is much cheaper.
It just won't run both MorphOS and OS4.
But a PowerMac WILL run both MorphOS AND Ubuntu Mate, so...
However...fishy's $100 aud i5 system? Hey, I spend more than that on my video cards.
I can't imagine what a POS you get for $100 (although, I have bought laptops in that range).
Look, if your priorities don't include spending the bucks for a PPC AmigaOne, I'm cool with that.
But don't pretend your commodity Intel hardware's pricing has any real bearing on the situation.
Its an apples an oranges situation, and I like both.
And SOME people are stupid enough to pay those kind of prices for an A4000 tower.
Hey, to each his own.
How you spend YOUR money is your business.
What's "ironic" is you think I should give a flying fu*k about what you think of what I do with MINE.
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The OP did ask for advice in part three of his post.
My advice, forget old used stuff (even if the g5 is faster...it's old)
BTW, X5000 can run linux and I've been told MorphOS too!
I'm so sick of the bad caps, battery rot and used up old devices.
I offered the best advise I believe.
BUY NEW! If you want Amiga. At the moment, that's the X5000!
Cheap is not cost effective!
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@iggy
$50 for i5-760 CPU. $50 for a decent h55 MSI motherboard. Hardly a pos. Performs nicely. USB3, PCI express 3.0. Decent little micro atx machine.
Y'all might want to reel in the paranoia too. I was trying to offer the OP advice based on *his* wants. If you'd bothered to read what I wrote rather than jumping to raise your (irrelevant in the context of this thread) flag you'd have seen I even said that an RPI+amibian might be his best option for what he wants "despite AROS being my preference".
And yes SACC-Guy, my facts are correct. You claimed AROS needs an expensive Intel system to run properly, which is complete crap.
I couldn't care less if people want an X5000 or not. There were no "potshots", I simply tried to respond IN THE CONTEXT OF THE THREAD rather than trying to sell him on something he said multiple times he wasn't interested in.
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The OP did ask for advice in part three of his post.
My advice, forget old used stuff (even if the g5 is faster...it's old)
BTW, X5000 can run linux and I've been told MorphOS too!
I'm so sick of the bad caps, battery rot and used up old devices.
I offered the best advise I believe.
BUY NEW! If you want Amiga. At the moment, that's the X5000!
Cheap is not cost effective!
True!
Like George Harrison sang on 33&1/3 "Its all up to what you value, down to where you are..."
I'm waiting to spend slightly MORE on a four core P5040 based X5000 (and THAT won't outperform my G5s).
But it WILL run OS4, MorphOS, and Linux.
AND it WON'T run Windows OR MacOS, which to MY way of thinking is an advantage...;-)
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@iggy
$50 for i5-760 CPU. $50 for a decent h55 MSI motherboard. Hardly a pos. Performs nicely. USB3, PCI express 3.0. Decent little micro atx machine.
Y'all might want to reel in the paranoia too. I was trying to offer the OP advice based on *his* wants. If you'd bothered to read what I wrote rather than jumping to raise your (irrelevant in the context of this thread) flag you'd have seen I even said that an RPI+amibian might be his best option for what he wants "despite AROS being my preference".
And yes SACC-Dude, my facts are correct. You claimed AROS needs an expensive Intel system to run properly, which is complete crap.
I couldn't care less if people want an X5000 or not. There were no "potshots", I simply tried to respond IN THE CONTEXT OF THE THREAD.
You do in fact care! YOU want to push aros based choices, and
You missed that he want an Amiga! for aprrox $200
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Well, back when I was poor, I wanted a leather jacket. I couldn't even afford the cheapest.
I saved my money, but didn't buy the cheap, I BOUGHT the best. I still have that jacket!
I don't see anyway around the 20/30 year old issues. So why buy them.
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@iggy
$50 for i5-760 CPU. $50 for a decent h55 MSI motherboard. Hardly a pos. Performs nicely. USB3, PCI express 3.0. Decent little micro atx machine.
Y'all might want to reel in the paranoia too. I was trying to offer the OP advice based on *his* wants. If you'd bothered to read what I wrote rather than jumping to raise your (irrelevant in the context of this thread) flag you'd have seen I even said that an RPI+amibian might be his best option for what he wants "despite AROS being my preference".
And yes SACC-Dude, my facts are correct. You claimed AROS needs an expensive Intel system to run properly, which is complete crap.
I couldn't care less if people want an X5000 or not. There were no "potshots", I simply tried to respond IN THE CONTEXT OF THE THREAD.
No paranoia (you have to be afraid of something to be paranoid) or potshots (a comment needs to be unjustified to call it that).
Just a different point of view.
AND, from my point of view, compared to PPC NG, AROS IS crap.
AND ARM can't even offer me a decent PCIe equipped motherboard.
About $300 for a PCIe X4 slot (usually compact M2) OR about $800 for a board with a full sized slot (AND usually with all that development board quality fruitiness "baked" right in).
I'll stick with my legacy hardware supplemented my NG.
I may be typing this on my i7 laptop (WITH Win10), BUT, I could just as easily do that on my iBook under MorphOS.
And YES, I COULD do that with AROS, IF Win10 or Ubuntu Mate wasn't a better solution.
Also, I wasn't kidding about the video card, I'm looking forward to buying a cheap RX 560. But that is going to cost more than the i5 system you are quoting.
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Haha,.... come on bloke, talk about transparent. :)
Not sure me laughing my ass off was the reaction you was trying to stir in me though :)
And here's my equally silly response designed to trigger a reaction (well, if I was serious anyway)....
Hey, if you're happy with archaic performance and a 20year old graphics subsystem that's so obsolete it doesn't even have features introduced in the 90's (pixel shaders), a limit of 2gig ram (my last win98 machine had the same amount) and a CPU arch that hasn't really advanced in 15 years then I'm happy for you.
Personally I'd rather use the more advanced in every way Win9x.
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You missed that he want an Amiga! for aprrox $200
yes, it seems he wants an amiga, not some ppc amigaone board, which is what you are apparently missing. please, stop trying to insist on newcomers, to throw thousands of dollars away for something, they likely never heard about (and that may not be, what they identify amiga with), just to run amiga software under emulation, as you would have to do on a regular pc.
btw, i have several amigas, still far from dying as it seems. and i can even run aros on them along with genuine software, no additional investments necessary. try that with os4.. sigh..
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OP: Welcome back. Lol
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yes, it seems he wants an amiga, not some ppc amigaone board, which is what you are apparently missing. please, stop trying to insist on newcomers, to throw thousands of dollars away for something, they likely never heard about (and that may not be, what they identify amiga with), just to run amiga software under emulation, as you would have to do on a regular pc.
btw, i have several amigas, still far from dying as it seems. and i can even run aros on them along with genuine software, no additional investments necessary. try that with os4.. sigh..
I too have several Amigas, all working...
as to ppc is not amiga, Oh please, that old fable...
Amiga had the 060/ppc card back in the MorphOS 1.4 days (I still have mine)
MorphOS was setup on ppc.
The only new Amiga has PPC, get over it!
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I too have several Amigas, all working...
exactly. its all fine..
as to ppc is not amiga, Oh please, that old fable...
Amiga had the 060/ppc card back in the MorphOS 1.4 days (I still have mine)
you dont have to tell me. i have one. the ppc on it is not of much use, but scsi interface is fine. all in all, an (almost) completely failed concept.
MorphOS was setup on ppc.
at least morphos people usually dont pretend they are "the (only) true amiga".
The only new Amiga has PPC, get over it!
it is your personal view. its fine as long as you mark it as such, rather than trying to impose it on others.
trying to get people caught with serious investment they might not realize e details of till it is to late is not a fair form of advertisement. take your example on kas1e over on aw.net, who is doing it right.
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Amiga is not a cheap hobby. Thank the hoarders who've snapped up nearly all of the available remaining systems, thus raising the price for returning folks like yourself. :(
news to me. i have not spend much money on it since years, the only costly (and completely failed) experiment was to buy a system along with a ppc card to check if it delivers something significantly more, which it did not.
today, when fpga accelerators and replacement systems become popular for reasonable money, the situation is better than ever, i guess.
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Haha,.... come on bloke, talk about transparent. :)
Not sure me laughing my ass off was the reaction you was trying to stir in me though :)
And here's my equally silly response designed to trigger a reaction (well, if I was serious anyway)....
Hey, if you're happy with archaic performance and a 20year old graphics subsystem that's so obsolete it doesn't even have features introduced in the 90's (pixel shaders), a limit of 2gig ram (my last win98 machine had the same amount) and a CPU arch that hasn't really advanced in 15 years then I'm happy for you.
Personally I'd rather use the more advanced in every way Win9x.
Sure, and I'd personally LOVE to rely on an Intel based system with a built-in gpu that totally sucks gully water, IF I didn't know I could do better by adding a graphics card built with a gpu from their main competitor.
Laugh at whatever you want, I haven't gotten over the laughing fit I had when Intel was building Pentium 4 cpus.
And I use X64 hardware at work, why would I want to focus on using similar hardware in my hobbyist pursuits then DISABLING large parts of the functionality with an OS based on 20 year old software?
You go right ahead laughing, we're laughing too. But, not WITH you. :hammer:
news to me. i have not spend much money on it since years, the only costly (and completely failed) experiment was to buy a system along with a ppc card to check if it delivers something significantly more, which it did not.
today, when fpga accelerators and replacement systems become popular for reasonable money, the situation is better than ever, i guess.
Personally, I'd rather hear THAT argument than fishy's.
I can get behind the idea of replacing my legacy hardware with a well designed fpga system.
...at least morphos people usually dont pretend they are "the (only) true amiga".
Actually, we try to remember that the idea was to go BEYOND Amiga, even IF "the real" Amiga crowd decided that they wanted an exact PPC port of AmigaOS 3.X.
So it didn't work out, MorphOS becoming the next AmigaOS, does it matter?
We've become irrelevant anyway, except to us hobbyists.
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What silliness . No problem to get a system for under 200$. Buy a raspberry pi install Amiga os with rtg screen modes and use any HDMI/DVI monitor you have laying around. Boom you have a powerful classic Amiga that hardly use any electricity at all and is dead silent. Oh maybe he don't find aos useful for writing purposes, he can simply just install another OS like rasbian. If he is unhappy he lost hardly ANY money. If he bought a silly nextgen "Amiga" and wanted to sell it second hand he would be at a loss,even with new caps .
If he has a Intel mac or other PC he can try running UAE or maybe aros in VMware. This will cost nothing before committing to install on new partitions or buy a new system.
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I can get behind the idea of replacing my legacy hardware with a well designed fpga system.
i woulnt want to replace my amigas with whatever. but to each heir own. its nice to actually have the options, without being outright forced into anything.
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No paranoia (you have to be afraid of something to be paranoid) or potshots (a comment needs to be unjustified to call it that).
Just a different point of view.
AND, from my point of view, compared to PPC NG, AROS IS crap.
AROS is crap? Please enlighten me as to how so.
AND ARM can't even offer me a decent PCIe equipped motherboard.
About $300 for a PCIe X4 slot (usually compact M2) OR about $800 for a board with a full sized slot (AND usually with all that development board quality fruitiness "baked" right in).
erm closer to $192 for an nvidia arm dev board which does include a mini pcie slot.
I'll stick with my legacy hardware supplemented my NG.
That's fine stop bashing my personal choice since I can point out many places where MY CRAP choice demolishes your choice.
I may be typing this on my i7 laptop (WITH Win10), BUT, I could just as easily do that on my iBook under MorphOS.
And YES, I COULD do that with AROS, IF Win10 or Ubuntu Mate wasn't a better solution.
Ubuntu mate is also a better choice than either AOS4 or MorphOS so what's your point?
Also, I wasn't kidding about the video card, I'm looking forward to buying a cheap RX 560. But that is going to cost more than the i5 system you are quoting.
As someone who has 6 RX 480's for mining. I would say your price estimate for the 560 is high. The RX 550 and the RX 460 are already a sub $100 cards(The RX 560 should be around the same price as the 460).
Ironically my AROS system which I also use for mining has $1200 worth of video cards. Now for the full cost of this system.
6 RX 480 5, 4 gig and 1, 8 gig. $1200
32 GB of Ram $300
FX 9570 $200
MSI AM3+ motherboard $150
Bluray recorder $80
1TB ssdd $200
Case $60
So total price is $2190 brand new and still cheaper than a complete X5000.
The multicore branch not only see's all the memory and cores it uses them.
I'm pretty sure there's not one MorphOS or AOS4 machine that can compare to the performance. So I will take my 64 Bit AROS and enjoy it.
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AROS is crap? Please enlighten me as to how so.
How long was that in beta again?
erm closer to $192 for an nvidia arm dev board which does include a mini pcie slot.
Still too high, I can get a full sized X64 system with a full sized PCIe slot for less, and people are giving away PPC Macs.
That's fine stop bashing my personal choice since I can point out many
places where MY CRAP choice demolishes your choice.
Until you try to run 68K software, which because you OS is wrong endian means you have to emulate everything.
And btw, when we move to X64, you are going to look even worse, because our developers are better than yours. ;-)
(you should take that lightly)
Ubuntu mate is also a better choice than either AOS4 or MorphOS so what's your point?
For an OS with a monolithic kernel its not bad, certainly a better use of an X64 OR PPC cpu than our operating systems. But what's YOUR point, as it isn't Amigan.
As someone who has 6 RX 480's for mining. I would say your price estimate for the 560 is high. The RX 550 and the RX 460 are already a sub $100 cards(The RX 560 should be around the same price as the 460).
Personally, I anticipate the RX 560 to be right at the $99 mark, as its certainly better than an RX 550 or 460.
And if I wanted an RX 480, they start at about $180 for the 4GB versions (often with a rebate).
But I don't game or doing anything like bitcoin mining (which just sounds like a waste of hardware and electricity for the meager returns), so an RX 560 will be fine.
In the meanwhile, I promise not to be so harsh on AROS, as it is my second favorite NG OS (and I have friends in the AROS development community like Staf Verhagen).
I just get tired of fishy's bullshirt.
Its a freakin' hobby, spend your money on whatever you want.
Just don't give me a hard time for my choices.
After all, I'm not one of those lunatics that thinks Amiga is going to make some kind of miraculous re-emergence. :rofl:
That train left the station near the turn of the century.
i woulnt want to replace my amigas with whatever. but to each heir own. its nice to actually have the options, without being outright forced into anything.
Eh, I kept a CD32 for gaming, and an A2000 for productivity apps.
I wouldn't mind an A1200 or A4000, but they are getting too expensive.
AND all the legacy hardware IS aging.
Unless I want to buy one of the German boards or wait for Jens to build new A1200s, fpga is the only way to get NEW legacy hardware (and it runs BETTER).
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How long was that in beta again?
AROS will always be in beta but that doesn't change the fact that in many ways it's more advanced than the other NG OSes.
Still too high, I can get a full sized X64 system with a full sized PCIe slot for less, and people are giving away PPC Macs.
Of course it's too high. Personally I have no interest in ARM however for the price it's a neat little toy.
Until you try to run 68K software, which because you OS is wrong endian means you have to emulate everything.
I'll take my winuae sandbox in abiv1 which may even eventually be able to sandbox AOS4 ;)
And btw, when we move to X64, your going to look even worse, because our developers are better than yours.
Sure they are I mean they already have 64 bit suppo... oh wait no they don't. Well at least they have Multicore showing li... Oh wait nope not there either. Well they they at least have the newest version of webkit in their Odyssey ... Oh nope. Well then they certainly had wpasupplicant ported firs... damn again I was wrong. See this game goes both ways.
Sure there are some immensely talented MorphOS developers I will never deny that. However the my epenis is bigger than yours is a joke.
For an OS with a monolithic kernel its not bad, certainly a better use of an X64 OR PPC cpu than our operating systems. But what's YOUR point, as it isn't Amigan.
Easy you brought it up so my comparison is fair. ;)
Personally, I anticipate the RX 560 to be right at the $99 mark, as its certainly better than an RX 550 or 460.
And if I wanted an RX 480, they start at about $180 for the 4GB versions (often with a rebate).
But I don't game or doing anything like bitcoin mining (which just sounds like a waste of hardware and electricity for the meager returns), so an RX 560 will be fine.
I certainly do ok with mine. ;)
Its a freakin' hobby, spend your money on whatever you want.
Just don't give me a hard time for my choices.
I feel the same way and frankly get sick of the BS.
After all, I'm not one of those lunatics that thinks Amiga is going to make some kind of miraculous re-emergence. :rofl:
That train left the station near the turn of the century.
That train left the day Commodore went belly up.
Eh, I kept a CD32 for gaming, and an A2000 for productivity apps.
I wouldn't mind an A1200 or A4000, but they are getting too expensive.
AND all the legacy hardware IS aging.
I have a few A1200 and A4000's if you're ever in NY. I can even show you the A4000 developer box I have.
Unless I want to buy one of the German boards or wait for Jens to build new A1200s, fpga is the only way to get NEW legacy hardware (and it runs BETTER).
I do want a GBA1000 personally I think it would be a fun project.
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Until you try to run 68K software, which because you OS is wrong endian means you have to emulate everything.
funny thing, im pretty sure, that as soon as morphos or os4 was ported to x86, you would call that a necessary and advanced feature.
good thing is that aros is endian agnostic. you certainly know on an amiga it runs amiga software without any emulation whatsoever. have fun with your further nitpicking.
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@Terminills
We seem to be on the same page here.
Its a freakin' hobby.
If you get a bug under your skin and want to blow some money, go for it.
But don't proselytize.
'Cause if it comes right down to it, when I need somethin' practical, I still need to use Linux, Android, Windows, or MacOS. :)
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funny thing, im pretty sure, that as soon as morphos or os4 was ported to x86, you would call that a necessary and advanced feature.
good thing is that aros is endian agnostic. you certainly know on an amiga it runs amiga software without any emulation whatsoever. have fun with your further nitpicking.
Ah, we're movin' that way, whether I like it or not.
I kinda liked PPCs.
But they ARE dying, and Power 8/9 doesn't appear to be migrating down to the desktop.
SO...whatcha gonna do, eh?
Frankly, I'm pretty cpu agnostic anymore.
After all, I lost MY bid in the cpu wars in the '90s.
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Wow. I didn't expect this thread to blow up like this. To clarify a few things:
The $200 is a target budget. I have no problems paying for tech toys, I buy a lot of Apple products. Not bragging, just my choice over windows.
I am looking to create a distraction free work space, and not use my Mac's (I have a few of them) as they are already used for other things, to include regular daily use and one is a local server.
Once I found out Amiga was still kicking, I got very excited. Even with as old as it is, you can't get a smaller OS that can do what Amiga OS can. Sure you can strip down a linux system to fit on a floppy, but what do you really get? I love the Amiga, and it will always have a place in my heart.
Having sad that, it has been a very long time since I have played around with an Amiga. At this point I am not prepared to drop $1k+ on a system unless I know it will fit the bill. If I can get something setup, learn the new software, and integrate it into the way I like to work, great!
If it doesn't work out, I don't want to have spent $1k+ on a machine that will be relegated playing 20 year old games and then sit in a closet if I get bored with it.
If I can work an Amiga into my setup, then I will see about upgrading to a shiny new one. To give you guys/gals an idea of how busy my life can get, I have been typing this out for nearly an hour now as my phone won't stop blowing up because of work, which requires me to look at emails, which then require responses, then there is a BBQ next weekend at my house, so people are texting for that, my son is visiting from the west coast (and is apparently out of work), the list just goes on. It's gets very frustrating.
When I write, I want complete solitude. Just me, a set of head phones, and a beer. It is my escape from my normal life. It is why I setup my writing station in a large closet instead of the spare bedroom turned office.
It was mentioned in this thread about setting up a second user account on my Mac, which is a good idea. However, the temptation to "connect" is still there. The great thing about Apple products is they are all connected together. The horrible thing about Apple products is they are all connected together. Creating a new account still requires you to sign in with an AppleID, and a guest account is so limited that no real work can done without a great deal of frustration. I have been down that road, which is why the idea of the Amiga appeals to me.
Sure I can get a linux system up running for less than $100, I could probably even get an older windows XP machine for around the same price. The problem is, I like the Amiga, and I am trying to find a way to make it work. Yes, it's a bit more of a headache, yes it's an old OS, and yes there are cheaper ways to do what I am trying to do.
So, in effort to keep at least initial cost down, I have decided for my first foray into the Amiga in around 20 years, that I will go the emulation route on a Raspberry Pi and see if I get OS 4.1 to work with it. This has a number advantages, besides keeping cost low. It will also allow me to use Cinnamon Writer so I can have modern document compatibility, it has a PDF viewer (though I don't know yet how good it is yet), and a functional web browser. The pdf viewer and web browser I can use for research. Even if it runs slow(ish) that will be fine until I can get the kinks of working with AmigaOS worked out. If I like the workflow well enough, then in a few months (maybe a year) I can plop down the money for a X5000 or whatever is on the horizon.
If I can't get 4.1 to work with the Raspberry Pi, I know I can get 3.1 to work with it, and I will need to workout different issues such as document file types and the like. Either way, I can still play a number of games that are just a lot of fun when I want to be distracted.
I do appreciate everyone's help and advice, and I thank you all. It's good to know that there are still people out there to keep this alive, even when people like myself gave up on it more than a decade ago. I'm glad to be back.
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Uh...hmm...sorry?
We DO get a little over wrought here.
I think we might have given you the impression we don't get along.
We do. Its just that we've spread out in several directions since the '90s.
You start out using something that is relatively unique and seems to point the way to the future, and some second rate hack management types f' it ALL up.
Now everything kinda looks like an Amiga, BUT almost no one even remembers that particular platform.
And worse yet, they want to drop all the credit for multimedia PCs in Steve Jobs and Bill Gates lap.
Its...frustrating.
BUT, this is all just a hobby now.
Emulation would be the ideal way for you to get back into it (although emulation of OS4 is kind of limited and a bit painful).
Cloanto gave me copies of their Amiga and C64 emulation packages years ago, and they were great then.
They've only gotten better.
To the point where the actual hardware is kind of unnecessary (sorry purists).
And you can install UAE yourself on a multitude of devices.
So, I think you have a good plan to start with.
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And worse yet, they want to drop all the credit for multimedia PCs in Steve Jobs and Bill Gates lap.
History is written by the winner.
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History is written by the winner.
:laughing:
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Emulation would be the ideal way for you to get back into it (although emulation of OS4 is kind of limited and a bit painful).
That is what I was thinking. Honestly, I think I will be fine, at least for now, with 3.1. While I do intend to try to make this work as viable solution for real work, I have no delusions about the limitations of a 16bit OS in a 64 bit world.
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That is what I was thinking. Honestly, I think I will be fine, at least for now, with 3.1. While I do intend to try to make this work as viable solution for real work, I have no delusions about the limitations of a 16bit OS in a 64 bit world.
16bit?
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@terminills
I never understood why Aros made itself so small and (worse) even offered "Research" for the "R" in AROS. AROS was amiga replacement OS and if it could no longer be used that way then simply AROS. From a marketing view that was a self goal, only technicians can have such idea... Beta? How it is defined here? Beta again makes AROS small again. You see how it was and is used against it. I do not understand why people voluntary use such phrases here...
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actually amiga and the derived oses are all 32bit except for aros that may be either 32 or 64 bit.
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@iggy
just a general thought... most of the bickering "we are the best", "we have the best developers" and so on was from MorphOS users, not the devs who not participated there (that is also true for 3rd party MorphOS devs). Those devs can say thank you to those users because that behavior alienated other camps leading to less people using MorphOS and buying licenses. So if you want to promote your favorite OS then it is ok but do not talk down competition, expecially now that there is close to zero 3rd party development, OS core dev team has obviously lost members and OS development stalls for a long time and the famous ISA change is only talk at the moment. And I can dig out the numbers of the Javascript engine test again comparing AROS X86 and real world platforms comparing to MorphOS or AmigaOS. I think you can remember it...
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@terminills
I never understood why Aros made itself so small and (worse) even offered "Research" for the "R" in AROS. AROS was amiga replacement OS and if it could no longer be used that way then simply AROS. From a marketing view that was a self goal, only technicians can have such idea... Beta? How it is defined here? Beta again makes AROS small again. You see how it was and is used against it. I do not understand why people voluntary use such phrases here...
The Research is historical. AROS was never intended as a mainstream OS but was being developed by fans of the Amiga.
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The Research is historical. AROS was never intended as a mainstream OS but was being developed by fans of the Amiga.
but in the meantime the last one should have realized that such phrases are used against AROS to make it look bad
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but in the meantime the last one should have realized that such phrases are used against AROS to make it look bad
If a user isn't going to try AROS because it's "Always in BETA" or a research OS then there's a good chance they would never try it to begin with. As for some people using the BETA term to try to discredit the achievements of the developers. I guess that comes down to how petty that person is in the first place.
In the end who cares.
I can sum up this thread like this.
AmigaONE is the only NEW Amiga. (MorphOS and AROS are fakes and should be disposed of)
MorphOS developers can walk on water!!!!
Well AROS is the cheapest!
AmigaOS4 is the pure descendant of the code! :angel:
Classic hardware is all dying!
FPGA isn't real!
Emulation is evil.
Just like every other thread in the last 17 years.
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If a user isn't going to try AROS because it's "Always in BETA" or a research OS then there's a good chance they would never try it to begin with. As for some people using the BETA term to try to discredit the achievements of the developers. I guess that comes down to how petty that person is in the first place.
In the end who cares.
I can sum up this thread like this.
AmigaONE is the only NEW Amiga. (MorphOS and AROS are fakes and should be disposed of)
MorphOS developers can walk on water!!!!
Well AROS is the cheapest!
AmigaOS4 is the pure descendant of the code! :angel:
Classic hardware is all dying!
FPGA isn't real!
Emulation is evil.
Just like every other thread in the last 17 years.
Now that's funny :D
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Now that's funny :D
It's also the reason I barely post anymore. Typically I will only post now and then about the development status of Final Writer.
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If a user isn't going to try AROS because it's "Always in BETA" or a research OS then there's a good chance they would never try it to begin with. As for some people using the BETA term to try to discredit the achievements of the developers. I guess that comes down to how petty that person is in the first place.
In the end who cares.
I can sum up this thread like this.
AmigaONE is the only NEW Amiga. (MorphOS and AROS are fakes and should be disposed of)
MorphOS developers can walk on water!!!!
Well AROS is the cheapest!
AmigaOS4 is the pure descendant of the code! :angel:
Classic hardware is all dying!
FPGA isn't real!
Emulation is evil.
Just like every other thread in the last 17 years.
I quite like that summation (even if our developers CAN walk on water, they don't JUST because they don't want to show off :lol:).
Yeah, it gets repetitive, a little.
You forgot "development is deathly slow", "no one but Amigans would be interested", "there are less of us every year", and "you ought to go out and buy a PC or Mac" (as IF most of us don't own one already). :hammer:
Edit - Oh yeah, and "my epenis is bigger than your epenis, and you're a twit for doing it the way you do"
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16bit?
Well, technically 31 bit if you want to use the memory addressing limitation of the Amiga, 32 bit for some instructions, but yes, for the most part the 68K is a 16 bit device.
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A(R)OS
for those distressed with aros being a research os, one day someone may put together a distribution witout the R. problem solved.
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@iggy
just a general thought... most of the bickering "we are the best", "we have the best developers" and so on was from MorphOS users, not the devs who not participated there (that is also true for 3rd party MorphOS devs). Those devs can say thank you to those users because that behavior alienated other camps leading to less people using MorphOS and buying licenses. So if you want to promote your favorite OS then it is ok but do not talk down competition, expecially now that there is close to zero 3rd party development, OS core dev team has obviously lost members and OS development stalls for a long time and the famous ISA change is only talk at the moment. And I can dig out the numbers of the Javascript engine test again comparing AROS X86 and real world platforms comparing to MorphOS or AmigaOS. I think you can remember it...
Personally, I feel like the most hostility comes from the OS4 crowd (the "real Amiga" people).
They accuse all the rest of us of stealing, when that is pretty much what AInc and Hyperion have done.
As to developers, you're all using Odyssey, and that was created from webkit by a core MorphOS developer.
We might feel like sharing more IF that worked both ways, but the only real cross NG development that seems to occur is between AROS and MorphOS (unless you count developments in legacy or the very occasional total cross platform program like Cinnamon Writer).
Everyone is free to consider porting Ambient.
MUI 4/5 had to be paid for, and development was carried well past what Stuntz had created, which is why they didn't feel like just handing the work over to a commercial competitor.
And then, once the AOS crowd started to Morph an earlier version into something they called MUI4 (primarily to facilitate a port of Odyssey), and then went on to create an MUI5 with incompatibility issues with our existing MUI (and no doubt Zune)...
Do you REALLY expect us to be all smiles?
Look, Ben Hermans is an ASS, and he's made so threatening and unjustified legal claims about our OS, when our OS predates the creation and "acquisition" of the rights to OS4.
So YEAH, there's some hostility there.
AND, it might not be there IF Hermans didn't own those rights...
Frankly, I think there is some level of respect for the Friedens (who own part of OS4), and I know there is more than a little of that for Han de Ruiter (who OS4 users owe quite a bit of thanks too).
BUT, please, don't go pointing your fingers at us.
Because we DON'T spend that much time thinking about or attacking YOU.
We DO respond when you make your quaint comments though. :bitch:
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As to developers, you're all using Odyssey, and that was created from webkit by a core MorphOS developer.
another example of wrong recollection, i wonder if on purpose..
odyssey same as aros owb was created based on owb engine, which was first used in os4 owb, by joerg s. then fab took that, maintained it, added mui gui, switched to webkit itself, which the previous engine was an abandoned fork of anyway and renamed it as odyssey. then he opened his sources for a bounty and aros together with os4 developers took over, and here it is today in a cross platform repository available for everyone:
https://github.com/deadwood-pl/OdysseyWebBrowser
certainly, fabs role is a major one, but altogether it is what you practically might call a cooperative effort.
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Personally, I feel like the most hostility comes from the OS4 crowd (the "real Amiga" people).
They accuse all the rest of us of stealing, when that is pretty much what AInc and Hyperion have done.
As to developers, you're all using Odyssey, and that was created from webkit by a core MorphOS developer.
We might feel like sharing more IF that worked both ways, but the only real cross NG development that seems to occur is between AROS and MorphOS (unless you count developments in legacy or the very occasional total cross platform program like Cinnamon Writer).
Everyone is free to consider porting Ambient.
MUI 4/5 had to be paid for, and development was carried well past what Stuntz had created, which is why they didn't feel like just handing the work over to a commercial competitor.
And then, once the AOS crowd started to Morph an earlier version into something they called MUI4 (primarily to facilitate a port of Odyssey), and then went on to create an MUI5 with incompatibility issues with our existing MUI (and no doubt Zune)...
Do you REALLY expect us to be all smiles?
Look, Ben Hermans is an ASS, and he's made so threatening and unjustified legal claims about our OS, when our OS predates the creation and "acquisition" of the rights to OS4.
So YEAH, there's some hostility there.
AND, it might not be there IF Hermans didn't own those rights...
Frankly, I think there is some level of respect for the Friedens (who own part of OS4), and I know there is more than a little of that for Han de Ruiter (who OS4 users owe quite a bit of thanks too).
BUT, please, don't go pointing your fingers at us.
Because we DON'T spend that much time thinking about or attacking YOU.
We DO respond when you make your quaint comments though. :bitch:
you put me all the time in the 4.X camp...
just for the record... I do not use 4.X and never used it, I do not own any PPC hardware
I became interested again because of Natami project and am only interested in AROS. So please keep me out of this "red vs. blue" thing. If I write something it has zero to do with Ben H., Hyperion, 4.X or similar.
I posted here because you called AROS crap, you seem to forget very fast (age related?). And no indeed, you are not funny I do not think that anyone here thought that. Competition calling crap is not nice gesture, it is not politely and even it is plain wrong. I do not want to talk down MorphOS here, everybody to its own. Ambient was not voluntary made open soujrce from what I read, Stefan Stuntz was willing to open MUI sources as far as I know what would have made life a lot easier for Aros devs but at least one of the core devs was against it and today we have different versions of MUI on the different platforms and MorphOS supporters moan about that. The same is true for RTG... you do not want to cooperate then live with results and "shut up". OWB was originated on MorphOS and Fab was nice enough to open sources for some money. Later MorphOS will benefit from it because one of the Aros devs took the torch.
I was never part of the battle and not in community when it was on its height, I live in 2017 and cannot understand what some people are thinking.
Again if you want more users and devs make them think positive about it, promote the advantages you see, but do not call other camps crap or restart the old debates that lead to nothing except bad feelings.
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another example of wrong recollection, i wonder if on purpose..
odyssey same as aros owb was created based on owb engine, which was first used in os4 owb, by joerg s. then fab took that, maintained it, added mui gui, switched to webkit itself, which the previous engine was an abandoned fork of anyway and renamed it as odyssey. then he opened his sources for a bounty and aros together with os4 developers took over, and here it is today in a cross platform repository available for everyone:
https://github.com/deadwood-pl/OdysseyWebBrowser
certainly, fabs role is a major one, but altogether it is what you practically might call a cooperative effort.
You actually missed that when Stanislaw Szymczyk made the original AROS version of OWB he and fab cooperated.
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You actually missed that when Stanislaw Szymczyk made the original AROS version of OWB he and fab cooperated.
no, i didnt miss that. I mention aros owb right on the beginning. Im well aware of it, as im constantly messing with its sources trying to get it work for 68k again.
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no, i didnt miss that. I mention aros owb right on the beginning. Im well aware of it, as im constantly messing with its sources trying to get it work for 68k again.
I know I read the ML ;P
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I know I read the ML ;P
If that crosscompiling icu issue was solved we might perhaps have odyssey for all platforms in an instant, it was the same showstopper when i tried to compile it for 68k last year.
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You actually missed that when Stanislaw Szymczyk made the original AROS version of OWB he and fab cooperated.
Good points all.
And the "crap" comment about AROS may be a bit much (although the video drivers leave a LOT to be desired).
And no, I don't lump you guys in with the "real Amiga" crowd, but I do think the OS4 crowd IS responsible for a large part of the friction.
AmigaOS ought to simply be public domain as AInc never really acquired the rights to it or any other products it tried to sell outside of a trademark.
And outside of Cloanto, no one has a claim to it that predates the fiasco known as Amiga Incorporated.
In any case, its not my intention to increase our divisions.
I have legacy hardware, MorphOS hardware, AND an AROS system.
I do NOT have an OS4 system (although I suppose an emulated environment might be worth exploring).
I have committed to buying a P5040 based X5000 once it is introduced (even though a PowerMac G5 Quad 2.5 should outperform that), so eventually I will have real OS4 hardware (which I will then run MorphOS and Linux on primarily). SO...I'll have that covered.
And then there are the fpga systems (I already have an Altera DE1 and will be buying other hardware).
And, I don't hoard. I participate where I can, and try follow developments in ALL communities (I'm currently following Han de Ruiter's great online OpenGL tutorials).
As I've said before, I have a few contacts in the legacy and AROS communities. I've tried that with the OS4 community, but outside of Trevor and Hans, I usually get comments like "I'm only interested in 'real' AmigaOS" and I wonder if they mean OS3.1?
As I've said in past posts, I've owned Cloanto's packages for some time now.
Its gratifying seeing them carry on. Hyperion? Not so much.
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It's also the reason I barely post anymore. Typically I will only post now and then about the development status of Final Writer.
Are you the developer then?
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Are you the developer then?
he is the owner, not the developer
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Thanks! Off to bed now, get my 5 hours of sleep before hitting my "day" again.
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You know that you can pretty much emulate anything these days. Some you can even run from a browser. I have a simple view about emulation [ my view ]... it's like food without taste. I've always held a personal opinion [ my opinion ] that you should participate and not emulate. Some say that the only way the OS can survive is through emulation. I guess that is the issue... whether you are supporting the OS or the Amiga... The 'heart' or the 'machine'. For me its about the machine.
For those seriously keen then simply run a watch on Ebay. Just get the emails on kit and check each day. Put in a nominal bid and expect to fail. But you never know you may be lucky. Get something broken and mend it. Again have it as work in progress and maybe spend like forever fixing it. If you seriously love the Amiga then it really is a rewarding challenge. If however you are simply trying to feed the desire to relive your past becasue of an age issue then yeh... get an emulator. That way you can pretend your using and Amiga, or an Acorn, or a C64.
Today I switched on my Amiga. Not just one but quite a few. I really enjoy my Amigas, always have. And if the house burnt down tomorrow I would not rest until I had replaced them all. You either use an Amiga or you think you do. I have never been confused on that matter.
To quote .... ' A thing of beauty is a joy forever '.
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it's like food without taste...
...You either use an Amiga or you think you do. I have never been confused on that matter.
To quote .... ' A thing of beauty is a joy forever '.
Well said!
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You know that you can pretty much emulate anything these days. Some you can even run from a browser. I have a simple view about emulation [ my view ]... it's like food without taste. I've always held a personal opinion [ my opinion ] that you should participate and not emulate. Some say that the only way the OS can survive is through emulation. I guess that is the issue... whether you are supporting the OS or the Amiga... The 'heart' or the 'machine'. For me its about the machine.
For those seriously keen then simply run a watch on Ebay. Just get the emails on kit and check each day. Put in a nominal bid and expect to fail. But you never know you may be lucky. Get something broken and mend it. Again have it as work in progress and maybe spend like forever fixing it. If you seriously love the Amiga then it really is a rewarding challenge. If however you are simply trying to feed the desire to relive your past becasue of an age issue then yeh... get an emulator. That way you can pretend your using and Amiga, or an Acorn, or a C64.
Today I switched on my Amiga. Not just one but quite a few. I really enjoy my Amigas, always have. And if the house burnt down tomorrow I would not rest until I had replaced them all. You either use an Amiga or you think you do. I have never been confused on that matter.
To quote .... ' A thing of beauty is a joy forever '.
And here comes the purists.
In the end who cares.
I can sum up this thread like this.
AmigaONE is the only NEW Amiga. (MorphOS and AROS are fakes and should be disposed of)
MorphOS developers can walk on water!!!!
Well AROS is the cheapest!
AmigaOS4 is the pure descendant of the code!
Classic hardware is all dying!
FPGA isn't real!
Emulation is evil.
Just like every other thread in the last 17 years.
Also well said...
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YES, where there is an Amigan, there are five (or more) options