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Amiga computer related discussion => Amiga Hardware Issues and discussion => Topic started by: Whaka on February 08, 2017, 09:40:31 PM
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hello,
i need help for trying to do this mod.
i own a cybervision 64/3D with the scandoubler.
i want to run the SD in the 3000 because of the advantage of autoswitching.
and once you have the graphic card... loosing the flickerfixer is not a big deal.
so, i investigate a bit, and once you made the notch to fit it in the video slot, the last thing missing to get it working is a 28 Mhz signal, wich is missing on pin 5 of CN 451.
what i tried :
- pick the 28 Mhz directly on the 28 Mhz oscillator, directly on it's outpout.
it work, but not quite well, there's some phasing issue. so, the picture is not clean and sharp as it should be.
- pick the VDE28M signal, wich is generate for the internal SD/FF.
seems a better approach (it's adjustable thru VC470), but... and it's here i need help, the CV64/3D SD mess with the internal SD/FF when using this signal. and this can make the machine unbootable.
i need help to make them share this signal, without messing...
i try to remove amber, but it's not the solution.
i try to add an 1N4148 on the path, but it simply kill the signal (and by the way, i don't know if a diode could really be a solution.)
so, ideas are welcome :D
thanks !
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Not sure if it's helpful to you but here's a link to the manual:
http://amiga.resource.cx/manual/CyberVision643D.pdf
(second half is in English)
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i can't really add anything helpful apart from that i was in the same situation figuring out how to get the CV64/3D's A4000 scandoubler into the ECS video slot.
i figured that i (was too chicken) didn't want to butcher the slot or the card so just plopped in an indivisionECS and bolted the extra VGA out to the CV64/3D's backplate.
i was worried that there may have been other signals like sync-on-green that the A4000 had that the A3000 just didn't produce, that the SD/FF looked for to generate a stable signal clock.
good luck with what you're doing though, you're a braver soul than me - i just hope you don't cook anything!
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The CV643D flifi/SD is ECS IMHO, it does not upconvert AGA modes, I have one and was not happy to see its just an ECS scandoubler
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and... it's done !
i pick the VDE28M clock signal on the mobo.
i just added a 100 ohm resistor between the start point and the wire, and all troubles are gone.
if some people are interested in this mod, i can post some pics :)
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I've never owned a CV64/3D but out of curiosity, was this mod required because your video slot is damaged, and not providing the proper signal, or is it required on all A3000's? I thought the CV64/3D was supposed to be a "drop in upgrade" for both A3000/A4000, and shouldn't require any additional motherboard modifications?
Also, did anyone ever determine if the scan doubler is ECS only, or does it also double AGA modes (if installed in an A4000)?
Just curious, thanks! :)
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Read my post above, only ecs
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I've never owned a CV64/3D but out of curiosity, was this mod required because your video slot is damaged, and not providing the proper signal, or is it required on all A3000's?
yes, it's required for all 3000 (and 2000 too by the way) because the SD was originally only designed for the 4000.
in fact, there's 2 mod to do :
- one on the SD itself because it doesn't fit in the 2/3000 video slot. by doing a notch on the pcb (and it's still useable in the 4000 :))
- and a mod to provide the missing clock the 2/3000 don't provide.
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I liked all phase 5 products but never understood the cv643d ecs scandoubler
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I liked all phase 5 products but never understood the cv643d ecs scandoubler
That seems really odd to design a board that only works with the A4000 (without modification), yet which is only compatible with ECS screenmodes. Huh. I did find a couple posts doing a google search from people who said it worked with AGA, one person said it worked but the colors appeared faded, etc. Maybe it varies by board? Ridiculous, where's the consistency? :laughing:
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if i can, i'll test it in a 4000.
but i don't really understand the phase 5 choice too... as the CV64/3D is zorro 2 compatible. they really could have make it compatible with 2/3000 too.
for the moment, my experience is very good. this SD can provide a very clean and sharp picture with good color level. as good as the internal A3000 SD/FF.
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if i can, i'll test it in a 4000.
but i don't really understand the phase 5 choice too... as the CV64/3D is zorro 2 compatible. they really could have make it compatible with 2/3000 too.
for the moment, my experience is very good. this SD can provide a very clean and sharp picture with good color level. as good as the internal A3000 SD/FF.
I have a CV64/3d + Scandoubler in my A4000T if there is something you can suggest for testing. I can't recall any washed out screens or other irregularities with normal use, though most things I do are RTG workbench and NTSC VideoToaster related.
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I have a CV64/3d + Scandoubler in my A4000T if there is something you can suggest for testing. I can't recall any washed out screens or other irregularities with normal use, though most things I do are RTG workbench and NTSC VideoToaster related.
In your system, does the scandoubler work with AGA screenmodes?
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In your system, does the scandoubler work with AGA screenmodes?
Forgive my ignorance but what constitutes an AGA screenmode? 32-64-128-256 color modes?
The Scandoubler doubles the 15k native modes so I don't expect it to do anything to the DblNTSC modes.
256 color screenmodes (NTSC Hi-res or NTSC Lo-res)?? Those are fine and look great. Interlaced modes work but are still interlaced (no Flicker Fixer in the CV64/3d+SD). Tried 32 and 256 color modes, they look great.
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Anything above 12 bit (4096 colors) looks bad as far as i remember.
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Anything above 12 bit (4096 colors) looks bad as far as i remember.
Anything above 12 bit is going to be HAM or HAM8 (18-bit 262,144 color AGA mode), so that's going to "look bad", in general. Just because it's HAM. Or do you mean "worse than normal HAM mode images"? :lol:
I don't own this card so I don't have a dog in the fight, I'm just curious why they would design a scan doubler that only fits properly in the A4000 video slot, but which doesn't support A4000 video modes (http://amiga.lychesis.net/knowledge/ScreenModes.html) (if that is in fact the case).
Forgive my ignorance but what constitutes an AGA screenmode? 32-64-128-256 color modes?
The Scandoubler doubles the 15k native modes so I don't expect it to do anything to the DblNTSC modes.
256 color screenmodes (NTSC Hi-res or NTSC Lo-res)?? Those are fine and look great. Interlaced modes work but are still interlaced (no Flicker Fixer in the CV64/3d+SD). Tried 32 and 256 color modes, they look great.
NTSC or PAL Hi-Res Laced 256 colors would be an AGA screen mode, yes. So if that looks great, then it sounds like the scan doubler does work with AGA modes. LOL, think I need more coffee! ;)
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Here's my workbench in 256 color, NTSC:Hi-res Laced screenmode, A4000T with Cybervision 64/3D + Scandoubler.
[ATTACH]5605[/ATTACH]
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The A1200 and A4000 have 24-bit graphics. If the ScanDoubler is only 12-bit then it can only approximate the true colours (24-bit) of the AGA palette. Normal Workbench colours are 12-bit values by default so that they look the same on OCS/ECS, so unless you try and tweak them I'm guessing things will appear normal. Test it with a 24-bit image or AGA coppershade or something. The game Fire & Ice CD32 version would be a good test if you have that to hand. :)
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I tried AGA Test which seemed to run fine with no noticeable graphic issues or missing colors, but it ran a cycle of each primary RGB.
http://aminet.net/package/dev/c/aga-test
Next was Mr Copper.
http://aminet.net/package/game/gag/mrcopper
[ATTACH]5606[/ATTACH]
640x200 256color workbench screenmode with Mr Copper running.
But if I want high color I'm going to lean towards using the Cybervision64/3D.
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Can you try it with this?
http://m68k.aminet.net/package/util/wb/Copper-Demon (http://m68k.aminet.net/package/util/wb/Copper-Demon)
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Can you try it with this?
http://m68k.aminet.net/package/util/wb/Copper-Demon (http://m68k.aminet.net/package/util/wb/Copper-Demon)
Here's two shots using two different Presets...
[ATTACH]5608[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]5607[/ATTACH]